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Post by viper6 on Jan 21, 2016 10:42:51 GMT -5
why is there always a big "BUT" with emotiva and their processors XMC-1 is coming out finally! BUT it wont have hdmi 2.0 as promised XMC-1 is finally coming out! BUT it wont have dirac for a few months XMC-1 is OUT WITH DIRAC BUT...not full dirac yet...(another few months) XMC-1 IS OUT with Dirac Full BUT wont work with a Mac XMC-1 is out w dirac full both pc and mac BUT no hdmi 2.2 still XMC-1 is out and will be upgradebable to 2.2 for a 300$ fee....and it sounds outstanding BUT it will never be able to do atmos/dts-x (which is now becoming the standard) why cant emotiva processors just include EVERYTHING at the time of release...and in the right time as the codecs come out... why cant EMOTIVA processors BE the on the cutting edge.... this would dispels lots of criticism on the brand... now I know almost all of this is because of the size of Emo compared to the conglomerates (who can throw money at the newest codecs...and if they fail it wont make a dent in their bottom line...ala the yankees and the large money risks they take on free agents)....these are just observations....and I know money talks...but I DO love emotiva products...and their style of products alone makes me drool... just wish they weren't always "behind" In my opinion, some of your complaints are legitimate, some are not. The issues with HDMI 2.0 are the result of relative timing of the XMC-1 release and the maturation of the HDMI 2.0 standard. Emotiva would have had to FURTHER delay the XMC-1 release to include true HDMI 2.0 hardware. The issues with Dirac are (I believe) a result of the relative (small) size of Emotiva, and the difficulties in coping with software development that comes with a small staff. The issues with HMMI 2.2 are once again a result of timing. The XMC-1 was already a released product before HDMI 2.2 was mature, if it even is. Finally, the complaints about the XMC-1 not supporting the latest codecs (Atmos, DTS-X) are, frankly, ridiculous. The XMC-1 was way too far down the line in design for the incorporation and full support of the new codecs. It was designed from the outset as a 7.2 processor (with Zone 2 support). Full support of Atmos would have required that the XMC-1 be fundamentally re-designed, and a delay of product release that would have been measured in YEARS. As it is, Emotiva has made it clear that it is technically possible to implement 5.2.2 Atmos (I may or may not be accurately relating this, didn't look it up) in the XMC-1, they just are not sure it that is worthwhile. In my opinion this particular complaint is not unlike complaining that a 1080P television purchased one year ago does not have a 4K display. In this hobby the relentless advance of technology and features means it is simply impossible to remain current with the latest features for long. At some point a company simply has no choice but to cut off what latest features will be included in a product, and actually release it. I don't see anyone throwing a fit because OPPO doesn't have a 4K UHD Blu-Ray player ready for release right now. Finally, from where I sit the XMC-1 IS on the cutting edge with respect to sound quality and the support for features and codecs that were mature when it was designed. Based on MY experience with ARC, Dirac Live places the XMC-1 at the Bleeding edge of the industry. I know some disagree, we all have our own perspective.
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Post by monkumonku on Jan 21, 2016 10:46:01 GMT -5
why cant emotiva processors just include EVERYTHING at the time of release...and in the right time as the codecs come out... why cant EMOTIVA processors BE the on the cutting edge.... this would dispels lots of criticism on the brand... now I know almost all of this is because of the size of Emo compared to the conglomerates (who can throw money at the newest codecs...and if they fail it wont make a dent in their bottom line...ala the yankees and the large money risks they take on free agents)....these are just observations....and I know money talks...but I DO love emotiva products...and their style of products alone makes me drool... just wish they weren't always "behind" In a perfect world with perfect products, the XMC-1 would be perfect and have or be future-proofed to have all the latest features. But a company has only a certain amount of resources and has to make choices as to which niche they will fill. You have to weigh the expense versus the estimated benefits. It is easy for all of us to be armchair CEO's but in the real world, it's a different perspective when your and all of your employee's livelihoods depend on the decisions you make and on how well you run your operations. So far it seems that Dan has created and maintained a successful company, enough so that the profits enable him to continue producing products that offer excellent value and quality. In the end you can't please everyone and you have to make choices that align not only with what your resources allow, but also align with your philosophy of why you do what you do. Now before people pile on me for being an Emo fanboy or fanboi or whatever, I'm not saying that they haven't made mistakes. If you don't make mistakes along the way then you aren't trying hard enough. And if I thought Emo was perfect then all of my gear would be made by them but it isn't. I'm just saying that while it would indeed be nice if the XMC-1 had every single feature we'd like to see, perhaps the reason they don't is intentional, or was an unintentional oversight or whatever. But at the end of the day the main thing is are you able to run a successful operation that is in line with your mission statement. It's a lot easier to criticize and second-guess when our equity isn't invested in whatever we are criticizing and second guessing.
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 21, 2016 10:49:57 GMT -5
Bottom line is that there are pleeeeeeeeeeenty of other options outhere so if it doesn't fit your bill just don't buy it...Two Channel Rules!!!
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 21, 2016 11:37:42 GMT -5
Vitriol - harsh and angry words! I don't see any of that in my statements and I have moved on to another company's product for my processor. People satisfied with tv speakers and soundbars are not going to be Emotiva customers anyway. Most HT owners are right now at least at 5.1 which means the next step is 7.1 and beyond. I have liked what I have already bought from Emotiva and am looking forward to more products that suit my fancy from them. The new line up is a fail to me so far and demonstrates a change in direction to retailers and less sophisticated audio customers. But you are right, I can move along and I probably will. A XMR product that challenges the uber expensive Datasat and Trinnov products would be a game changer.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 12:07:14 GMT -5
Viper
my post in NO WAY was a complaint....it was a more of...uggg why does there have to be BUT to everything they have done....I even answered my own question....its cause they dont have the sheer size as the other guys...
if you read my post as a complaint post...you are either very poor at reading comprehension...or you have a preconceived notion that anyone who says anything remotely negative about emo...is a hater...and you must defend it
and i completely disagree with your stance that "when it was developed it was cutting edge" that has no bearing TODAY....thats like my small car design company saying today.."hey I have come out with a great riding car that ...get this...is run by Battery/gas and gets 50mpg!!" great...but in the end that technology has been out for looooong time...and now rechargeable cars are the newest tech...so nothing new to see here
but i do agree about DIRAC...with the exception it isnt a Emo product...it can be had using any other processor if one chooses
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Jan 21, 2016 12:08:12 GMT -5
why cant emotiva processors just include EVERYTHING at the time of release...and in the right time as the codecs come out... why cant EMOTIVA processors BE the on the cutting edge.... this would dispels lots of criticism on the brand... now I know almost all of this is because of the size of Emo compared to the conglomerates (who can throw money at the newest codecs...and if they fail it wont make a dent in their bottom line...ala the yankees and the large money risks they take on free agents)....these are just observations....and I know money talks...but I DO love emotiva products...and their style of products alone makes me drool... just wish they weren't always "behind" In a perfect world with perfect products, the XMC-1 would be perfect and have or be future-proofed to have all the latest features. But a company has only a certain amount of resources and has to make choices as to which niche they will fill. You have to weigh the expense versus the estimated benefits. It is easy for all of us to be armchair CEO's but in the real world, it's a different perspective when your and all of your employee's livelihoods depend on the decisions you make and on how well you run your operations. So far it seems that Dan has created and maintained a successful company, enough so that the profits enable him to continue producing products that offer excellent value and quality. In the end you can't please everyone and you have to make choices that align not only with what your resources allow, but also align with your philosophy of why you do what you do. Now before people pile on me for being an Emo fanboy or fanboi or whatever, I'm not saying that they haven't made mistakes. If you don't make mistakes along the way then you aren't trying hard enough. And if I thought Emo was perfect then all of my gear would be made by them but it isn't. I'm just saying that while it would indeed be nice if the XMC-1 had every single feature we'd like to see, perhaps the reason they don't is intentional, or was an unintentional oversight or whatever. But at the end of the day the main thing is are you able to run a successful operation that is in line with your mission statement. It's a lot easier to criticize and second-guess when our equity isn't invested in whatever we are criticizing and second guessing. I agree 100% with this...and the way you answered does NOT make you a fanboi....you are realistically looking at how a small business is run...
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Post by Axis on Jan 21, 2016 12:17:04 GMT -5
What is the point of this entire thread discussion ? The XMC-1 does not have Atmos or DTS X.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 21, 2016 12:17:12 GMT -5
In my opinion this particular complaint is not unlike complaining that a 1080P television purchased one year ago does not have a 4K display. Maybe for this particular complaint sure. I think people here are complaining about different things and getting it crisscrossed. Some people already bought the XMC-1 and some people haven't. The arguments for those 2 sides about Atmos and the like will be totally different. I for one have not bought an XMC-1 for several reasons, with one of those reasons being the whole Atmos thing. For me it's like buying a top of the line very expensive new receiver that only did Dolby Digital EX when cheaper ones with Dolby True were already on the market. Technically nobody does, not even the big boys, so this isn't relevant yet. Need to wait a few months. Very true. But, now it's 1-1/2 years later and its behind. Not obsolete by any means, but behind. And the facts are this, Atmos and the others absolutely positively will not be going away. They will be the next highest level. They will be in every single piece of processing gear made by the big boys, probably by next Christmas, regardless of how many channels the device has.
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Post by Axis on Jan 21, 2016 12:24:53 GMT -5
Can someone here explain to me what this is all about.
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Post by viper6 on Jan 21, 2016 12:48:09 GMT -5
Viper my post in NO WAY was a complaint....it was a more of...uggg why does there have to be BUT to everything they have done....I even answered my own question....its cause they dont have the sheer size as the other guys... if you read my post as a complaint post...you are either very poor at reading comprehension...or you have a preconceived notion that anyone who says anything remotely negative about emo...is a hater...and you must defend it and i completely disagree with your stance that "when it was developed it was cutting edge" that has no bearing TODAY....thats like my small car design company saying today.."hey I have come out with a great riding car that ...get this...is run by Battery/gas and gets 50mpg!!" great...but in the end that technology has been out for looooong time...and now rechargeable cars are the newest tech...so nothing new to see here but i do agree about DIRAC...with the exception it isnt a Emo product...it can be had using any other processor if one chooses Ok, first your post was littered with a seemingly endless number of whys'. Why this, why that, why, why, why...... I defy you to look at your post objectively and not perceive it as being full of......complaints. With regard to "cutting edge", what I said is that the XMC-1 IS cutting edge when it comes to sound quality. If you can't agree with that statement then you must have your head (and ears) in the sand. The rest of your reply would seem to indicate that you believe a company can have a meeting on a Friday afternoon, determine the need to develop an all new high quality surround sound processor with Atmos/DTS-X support, and release it in a fortnight. The FACTS are that the XMC-1 had been in development for YEARS. Emotiva had a model that was almost ready for release, when they decided it simply wasn't good enough and scrapped it. The XMC-1 we are enjoying now was a clean slate design. Even then, it was designed as a 7.2 surround sound processor with the best sound quality they could achieve, because the state of the looming new immersive object based codecs were not such that they could be incorporated in the XMC-1 when it's design was finalized. Doing so would have meant sitting on their thumbs, waiting even longer. Atmos/DTS-X were not even fully developed (let alone around for looooong time) when the XMC-1 was released. This is NOT a matter of my opinion. This is something that has been stated unequivocally by the individuals at Emotiva directly involved in the design and development of the XMC-1. Dirac, available with ANY other processor? Yeah, if you want to cough up more than $10,000 for a processor that incorporates Dirac Live the way the XMC-1 does. Or you can spend $999.00 on a Mini DSP multichannel processor (that only performs Dirac Live processing) to add to an existing pre-amp processor. So yeah, looked at that way, you can have Dirac Live with "any other processor".
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,035
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 21, 2016 12:53:41 GMT -5
If I was going to go for ATMOS/DTS-X, I would not be buying the XMC-1 because it's a 7.2 processor and I would want more, say 11.2.
It sounds like to me that Dan may incorporate ATMOS/DTS-X in this processor to make people happy, however. At the moment, I have no desire for ATMOS due to not wanting to cut into my ceiling. It may be on my list in the future when I retire and build a new house. I like the idea, but not enough to modify my current family room.
The XMC-1 is the absolute best processor I have ever owned and plan on keeping it for a long time, upgrades and technology permitting.
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Post by Axis on Jan 21, 2016 12:54:52 GMT -5
What is the point of arguing all this ?
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Post by pedrocols on Jan 21, 2016 13:04:21 GMT -5
What is the point of arguing all this ? I have been wondering the same thing for the past seven years!
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Post by viper6 on Jan 21, 2016 13:06:07 GMT -5
In my opinion this particular complaint is not unlike complaining that a 1080P television purchased one year ago does not have a 4K display. Maybe for this particular complaint sure. I think people here are complaining about different things and getting it crisscrossed. Some people already bought the XMC-1 and some people haven't. The arguments for those 2 sides about Atmos and the like will be totally different. I for one have not bought an XMC-1 for several reasons, with one of those reasons being the whole Atmos thing. For me it's like buying a top of the line very expensive new receiver that only did Dolby Digital EX when cheaper ones with Dolby True were already on the market. Technically nobody does, not even the big boys, so this isn't relevant yet. Need to wait a few months. Very true. But, now it's 1-1/2 years later and its behind. Not obsolete by any means, but behind. And the facts are this, Atmos and the others absolutely positively will not be going away. They will be the next highest level. They will be in every single piece of processing gear made by the big boys, probably by next Christmas, regardless of how many channels the device has. All true. I would simply add that that whether one has an XMC-1 or not is irrelevant to the facts of its developement. I agree that it is "behind" with respect to features. That was inevitable, as it is for each and every product ever launched, or that ever will be launched in this industry. I just find it non-sensical to complain that a processor does not incorporate a feature that only existed on the drawing board when it was released, and that it was NEVER designed for in the first place.
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Post by viper6 on Jan 21, 2016 13:10:56 GMT -5
What is the point of arguing all this ? Probably none. I am cursed with sometimes being incapable of ignoring statements that cry out for correction. My bad.
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Post by millst on Jan 21, 2016 13:12:07 GMT -5
Entertainment?
-tm
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Post by millst on Jan 21, 2016 13:19:59 GMT -5
Vitriol - harsh and angry words! I don't see any of that in my statements and I have moved on to another company's product for my processor. People satisfied with tv speakers and soundbars are not going to be Emotiva customers anyway. Most HT owners are right now at least at 5.1 which means the next step is 7.1 and beyond. I have liked what I have already bought from Emotiva and am looking forward to more products that suit my fancy from them. The new line up is a fail to me so far and demonstrates a change in direction to retailers and less sophisticated audio customers. But you are right, I can move along and I probably will. A XMR product that challenges the uber expensive Datasat and Trinnov products would be a game changer. Yes, TV speaker and soundbar people aren't likely customers, just as Atmos people aren't likely customers (more of a niche / not as profitable from a volume standpoint). People aren't moving from 5.x to 7.x and those people definitely aren't moving to 7.x.2 or 7.x.4. Emotiva made a business decision to target the 5.x/7.x segment. Including immersive sound would have added more cost and delay, alienating their target market [even more]. -tm
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Post by Axis on Jan 21, 2016 13:23:17 GMT -5
What is the point of arguing all this ? I have been wondering the same thing for the past seven years! I see you guys debating stuff all the time and sometimes it is super cool. I love a good debate, just not about audio gear. I get that this can be an obsession. That's a little normal. But the XMC-1 does not have Atmos and DTS X. Yes Dan did say that he heard everyone yelling and he was considering it. If you are not super well off financially like 99% of the people on this planet and can not afford the new Atmos and DTS X Pre/Pro maybe if you can afford some A/V receivers that have come out of recent. I see that the more expensive have HDCP 2.2 and Pre outs. Trying to tell everyone that you think that it is a mistake that the XMC-1 does not have Atmos and DTS X is silly.
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Post by Axis on Jan 21, 2016 13:26:23 GMT -5
This. I like this. Really I would love for this discussion to be entertaining. You have to make it sound funny. That's hard to do, but it can be done.
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Post by Bonzo on Jan 21, 2016 13:28:26 GMT -5
That was inevitable, as it is for each and every product ever launched, or that ever will be launched in this industry. Yes, and processors are the worst. I think maybe amps, and maybe turntables and speakers are the least susceptible to obsolescence. It's typically why only the big boys can remain competitive in the low cost high feature processor market. Anything other than name brand processors are VERY expensive, especially when you factor in a 5 year life span. Which lends itself to the stupidity that a Marantz processor with every bell and whistle costs MORE than a Marantz receiver with every bell and whistle. Even if the processor has better components, is that not mostly offset by the removal of the entire 7.1 amp system? It would be much easier to buy a new processor every 5 years or so if they cost less. And I think this is one of the reason the masses never go with separates. If a great amp was $5000 and lasted a lifetime, and you could get a new processor every 5 years for $1000, that would make much more sense. I agree if it is in fact "complaining." Discussing the merits of "why it would have been nice" or "can it be done?" are different, although even those things are mostly irrelevant in the scheme of things. It is what it is really. But the discussions always end up just like political discussions; bad.
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