New HDMI Boards

[mickeyharlow]

Should I opt for the 2.2 board or wait for the 3.O board? Is there is a difference in price or any advantages or disadvantages to waiting?

[garbulky]

What 3.0 board? Are you talking about the planned XMC-1 board that is not the immediate sucessor?

[millst]

If you need 4K now or soon, get the board. The next board will enable more 4K inputs and maybe both outs, but that could be 1-2 years away.

-tm

[klinemj]

Jan 25, 2016 15:40:13 GMT -5 millst said:

If you need 4K now or soon, get the board. The next board will enable more 4K inputs and maybe both outs, but that could be 1-2 years away.

Agree that if someone needs 4K "now", they should get the soon to be available board. On another future board, agree that who knows for sure the timing...but I could swear Dan said that it would be "later this year". I may be mis-remembering...

Mark

[millst]

Yes, late this year. To me, "late this year" means late December. I also factored in some extra time since schedules slip so often in the tech world.

-tm

[mgbpuff]

You won't need the board unless you buy a new TV. But then again, when you do buy a new 4K HDMI2.0a HDCP 2.2 tv, you will need it and the XMC-1 may be discontinued and then you will have to buy a new AV pre-pro. Pick your poison.

[Axis]

mickeyharlow, I have been reading a lot lately on 4k trying to get as much information on it as I can. There is so much technical and legal things going on with it that there is no way to nail anything down now.

One thing that has been catching my attention is that hard media sales are on decline big time. I have seen it predicted with a good argument that 4k blu ray may end up just like LaserDisc did. Not saying that's going to happen. Streaming 4k at 15mbps seems like it will be the first large source of 4k media.

So if folks go out buy and set up for 4k now and not very much 4k content shows up from any source other than live broadcast it could be a risky move. This industry is flaky and who knows they may decide to skip 4k if it is not a big success in the beginning and go a different direction.

The XMC-1 is upgradable unlike almost all other A/V processors. The reason it is not 4k now is because the parts and technology are just becoming available right now. I have a feeling that Emotiva is not sure the right move right now much less the people that post here. Emotiva designs and manufactures this A/V processors and I bet they know more than the general public does. Things could change big time. Asking for information here about where Emotiva is going next and when they will go there is only good if they answer those questions.

I suggest everyone that owns an XMC-1 just hang loose and wait. If you are one that wants all 4k now then sort it out and go for it. There are ways to get there. I think !

[Gary Cook]

Jan 25, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -5 Axis said:

There is so much technical and legal things going on with it that there is no way to nail anything down now.

+1
So much up in the air, so much unknown, so much work in progress and so many alternatives with no clear direction.

Cheers
Gary

[Axis]

You do not need HDMI 2 and HDCP 2.2 to watch 4K Ultra HD with the XMC-1.

The Samsung UBD-K8500 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Player will ship in March, 2016. This player has two HDMI outputs.

Page 14 of the Product Manual.

downloadcenter.samsung.com/content/UM/201512/20151224160603900/UBD-K8500-ZA_1203.pdf

Method 2 Connecting to an HDMI compatible AV receiver that does not support pass through
• Connect an HDMI cable (not supplied) from the HDMI OUT 1 jack on the back of the product to
the HDMI IN jack on your TV. Connect another HDMI cable from the HDMI OUT 2 jack on the
product to the HDMI IN jack on your receiver.

This and the fact that you can use a programmable remote control to switch everything to the correct condition at the push of a single button means there is no real reason to worry about this.

[millst]

You lose the XMC-1 OSD. While the programmable remotes make things easier, it's still one more thing that can go wrong. Nobody enjoys having to use the help feature on a Harmony remote. You might need a splitter if you are driving multiple displays. On the other hand, I'd strongly consider it to save $300.

-tm

[Axis]

Jan 25, 2016 23:53:35 GMT -5 millst said:

You lose the XMC-1 OSD. While the programmable remotes make things easier, it's still one more thing that can go wrong. Nobody enjoys having to use the help feature on a Harmony remote. You might need a splitter if you are driving multiple displays. On the other hand, I'd strongly consider it to save $300.

-tm

I knew I could count on you to find something wrong Millst.

[millst]

Yeah, I'm always the devil's advocate.

-tm

[Axis]

You do not loose your on screen display for the XMC-1. A Samsung 4K Ultra HD Blu-ray Player is not the only device that you are likely to be using with you XMC-1. TV's today have more inputs than most receivers out there. You should have a HDMI cable from one of the HDMI outs on the XMC to one of your TV's inputs. Switch to that input on the TV and problem solved.

If you are here researching the future HDMI boards for the XMC-1 that can replace the current ones for different HDMI versions, then you should be very proficient with the use of Harmony or other brands of programmable remotes. If your Millst things will go wrong with your programmable remote. Everyone else the coast is clear. They work real good and you can change your inputs and outputs all day long without having to get out of your chair. You can be looking at the XMC's OSD then press another button and be looking at the Blu-ray Player OSD then another button and the TV OSD.

If your driving two different displays I just have to say that you should know that this is not the norm and it was not until recent that anything had more than one display output. Even most of any of the A/V processors now will not do separate content. Professionals have been using Matrix black boxes for years to give the clients use of multiple displays from the same source and now you can get them for a good price on Monoprice.com that do the same. This would only be an issue with your HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 source devices. The much more practical way of dealing with this issue is not to try using two displays with your non HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 A/V processor and your HDMI 2.0 HDCP 2.2 source device. Are you Nut's !

[millst]

Well, you are losing the OSD any time the Blu-Ray player is used. It is directly connected to the display, bypassing the XMC-1. It will still work for everything, else of course.

If you're advocating switching back and forth rapidly in the second paragraph, that is not very user friendly. Maybe you and I could live with that, but my girlfriend can barely turn things on with the expensive remote.

There is nothing wrong with your solution. I'm just pointing out some wrinkles that people need to consider. These things are never straightforward, especially on the bleeding edge.

If not adverse to the questionable legality of HDFury products, I'd take a look at their Integral product to see if it would be a possible interim solution.

-tm

[KeithL]

The only real catch with streaming 4k is the bandwidth. 4k DISCS are expected to offer data bandwidth between 80 and 100 mbps; a streaming service that used 10 or 15 mbps is NOT going to be able to deliver the same quality. As far as I'm concerned, it will be very sad if we end up with a few dozen actual high quality 4k discs, and a whole bunch of "4k" streaming content that isn't any better than the Blu-Ray discs we have now.

Jan 25, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -5 Axis said:

mickeyharlow , I have been reading a lot lately on 4k trying to get as much information on it as I can. There is so much technical and legal things going on with it that there is no way to nail anything down now.

One thing that has been catching my attention is that hard media sales are on decline big time. I have seen it predicted with a good argument that 4k blu ray may end up just like LaserDisc did. Not saying that's going to happen. Streaming 4k at 15mbps seems like it will be the first large source of 4k media.

So if folks go out buy and set up for 4k now and not very much 4k content shows up from any source other than live broadcast it could be a risky move. This industry is flaky and who knows they may decide to skip 4k if it is not a big success in the beginning and go a different direction.

The XMC-1 is upgradable unlike almost all other A/V processors. The reason it is not 4k now is because the parts and technology are just becoming available right now. I have a feeling that Emotiva is not sure the right move right now much less the people that post here. Emotiva designs and manufactures this A/V processors and I bet they know more than the general public does. Things could change big time. Asking for information here about where Emotiva is going next and when they will go there is only good if they answer those questions.

I suggest everyone that owns an XMC-1 just hang loose and wait. If you are one that wants all 4k now then sort it out and go for it. There are ways to get there. I think !

[dvcdude]

Agreed. I have a Samsung JS8500 and i stream some 4K through Amazon Fire. It is no better quality than Bluray. I have a WD Cinema that downloads 4K content to a HDD and it is incredible. Let's hope UHDBluray is a big hit and lasts.

[repeetavx]

Jan 25, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -5 Axis said:

One thing that has been catching my attention is that hard media sales are on decline big time. I have seen it predicted with a good argument that 4k blu ray may end up just like LaserDisc did. Not saying that's going to happen. Streaming 4k at 15mbps seems like it will be the first large source of 4k media.

So if folks go out buy and set up for 4k now and not very much 4k content shows up from any source other than live broadcast it could be a risky move. This industry is flaky and who knows they may decide to skip 4k if it is not a big success in the beginning and go a different direction.

I agree that the introduction of UHD is premature.

Just go to any Red Box and rent a movie. They want to rent you a DVD!

Oh, you want to rent a BluRay. Ok, but are you sure?
You know it takes a special player don't you?
If you try to play a BluRay on your DVD player it won't work.
Warning, Warning.

Once you get past the disclaimers then you can get your Blu-Ray, for some movies.

I personally know people who don't own a Blu-Ray player. I ask them why they don't buy a Blu-Ray player and their response is "why?". They say that everything is available on DVD. Which of course it is, and they don't care about more resolution. They say that they can understand the story just fine, with "just" DVD resolution.

Are we now to expect a large number of the public to "skip" Blu-Ray and Adopt UHD? I don't think so. What will happen is that they will end up not venturing away from their DVDs. Because the higher resolution formats don't offer them anything that they think that they need. You know, kinda like HiRez music.

So yes 4K, and now 8K, resolution is possible and standardized. But if you're marketing to the american public, UHD is only necessary to the few videophiles, and early adopters.

Until UHD discs represent a sizeable percentage of available movies (sales and rental), I see no reason to buy a UHD display. And if I don't  own a UHD display why would I want a UHD source or processing?

You early adopters and videophiles have fun. I'm glad that Emotiva is trying to keep up with the technology curve.  Just don't be surprised that video boards and other products are influenced by a  "public sales" curve. 

[millst]

RedBox would rather rent you a Blu-ray so they can make more money. However, they would much rather you didn't accidentally get a disc you can't play and get pissed off at them...

-tm

[jmilton]

Jan 26, 2016 15:55:26 GMT -5 repeetavx said:

Jan 25, 2016 17:55:42 GMT -5 Axis said:

One thing that has been catching my attention is that hard media sales are on decline big time. I have seen it predicted with a good argument that 4k blu ray may end up just like LaserDisc did. Not saying that's going to happen. Streaming 4k at 15mbps seems like it will be the first large source of 4k media.

So if folks go out buy and set up for 4k now and not very much 4k content shows up from any source other than live broadcast it could be a risky move. This industry is flaky and who knows they may decide to skip 4k if it is not a big success in the beginning and go a different direction.

I agree that the introduction of UHD is premature.

Just go to any Red Box and rent a movie. They want to rent you a DVD!

Oh, you want to rent a BluRay. Ok, but are you sure?
You know it takes a special player don't you?
If you try to play a BluRay on your DVD player it won't work.
Warning, Warning.

Once you get past the disclaimers then you can get your Blu-Ray, for some movies.

I personally know people who don't own a Blu-Ray player. I ask them why they don't buy a Blu-Ray player and their response is "why?". They say that everything is available on DVD. Which of course it is, and they don't care about more resolution. They say that they can understand the story just fine, with "just" DVD resolution.

Are we now to expect a large number of the public to "skip" Blu-Ray and Adopt UHD? I don't think so. What will happen is that they will end up not venturing away from their DVDs. Because the higher resolution formats don't offer them anything that they think that they need. You know, kinda like HiRez music.

So yes 4K, and now 8K, resolution is possible and standardized. But if you're marketing to the american public, UHD is only necessary to the few videophiles, and early adopters.

Until UHD discs represent a sizeable percentage of available movies (sales and rental), I see no reason to buy a UHD display. And if I don't  own a UHD display why would I want a UHD source or processing?

You early adopters and videophiles have fun. I'm glad that Emotiva is trying to keep up with the technology curve.  Just don't be surprised that video boards and other products are influenced by a  "public sales" curve. 

UHD is well beyond "early adopters" status.

www.soundandvision.com/content/almost-half-tv-buyers-plan-4k-purchase#607S7LGUdaFop0UE.97

4k.com/news/4k-tv-sales-to-surpass-100-million-units-by-2018-5948/

[Axis]

Jan 26, 2016 10:33:31 GMT -5 millst said:

Well, you are losing the OSD any time the Blu-Ray player is used. It is directly connected to the display, bypassing the XMC-1. It will still work for everything, else of course.

If you're advocating switching back and forth rapidly in the second paragraph, that is not very user friendly. Maybe you and I could live with that, but my girlfriend can barely turn things on with the expensive remote.

There is nothing wrong with your solution. I'm just pointing out some wrinkles that people need to consider. These things are never straightforward, especially on the bleeding edge.

If not adverse to the questionable legality of HDFury products, I'd take a look at their Integral product to see if it would be a possible interim solution.

-tm

There is no wrinkle Millst. You know as well as I do that when you are watching that 4k Blu Ray the only On Screen Display you will need is the Blu Ray players On Screen Display. All the information you need to watch that movie will be there with the Blu Ray player connected to the Display.

If you are complaining about not have the XMC-1's OSD while your watching a 4k movie on your 4k TV then you need to throw it all away. It's all over for you. Find a hole in a mountain and climb in it ! Life is over as you know it ! Nothing will every satisfy you ! Someone help me here.