RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59 
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 5, 2016 23:07:54 GMT -5
Hi, I could not find details of similar threads on the forum similar to what i am looking for. Do feel free to point me in the direction if i missed any old threads that are relevant. I currently use the XSP-1 and XPA-1L combo with Axiom M100 combo and am quiet happy. Over the last few months i have been bitten by the Tube bug and wondering if a Tube Pre will make a significant improvement. I would like to know if I will be wasting money or will there be a substantial smoothness and warmth by a Tube Pre compared to the XSP-1. I do not want to or plan to remove the XSP-1 from my system. Just another Pre-amp that i can use on occasion that will bring that 60s sound back  This is what i have right now. So let me know if something is mismatched. Source - digital wav/dsd Dac - Teac ud501 Teac udh01
Pre- XSP-1
Amp- XLA-1L
Speakers - Axiom M100v4
Gear i was looking at / reading about [but not the only gear i am ready to consider]
-Mc Intosh C220
-Luxman CL38
Please can you share your thoughts.
Cheers
Cube |
|
|
|
Post by brutiarti on Mar 5, 2016 23:21:36 GMT -5
If you don't mind having a remote, The new line of preamps have remote now. You should add primaluna preamps to your list. The xsp-1 can sound analytical and detailed, a tube preamp will give you the warmth that hugs you when you listen music
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 0:58:49 GMT -5
Hi bru
Yes. That's exactly what am looking for. The warmth.
Current setup is detailed but analytical.
Not "that" sound if you know what I mean.
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 0:59:12 GMT -5
Hi bru
Yes. That's exactly what am looking for. The warmth.
Current setup is detailed but analytical.
Not "that" sound if you know what I mean.
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 1:00:49 GMT -5
What's your opinion of the pre amps I referred to?
Are they an overkill?
|
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Mar 6, 2016 5:57:02 GMT -5
Please take a look at tubes4hifi.com, great All American tube gear at great prices.
|
|
|
|
Post by brubacca on Mar 6, 2016 6:47:37 GMT -5
I am not shy about my love for tube equipment. I'm a big fam of Rogue Audio. But...
Are you shure this harsh sound isn't originating from your dac? Not familiar with the Teac.
Boomzilla here tested a Mc pre recently. His notes may be helpful.
|
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 6, 2016 7:21:21 GMT -5
Hi RCUBE -
It depends, of course, on how MUCH tube sound you want...
You can get a "classic" Dynaco PAS, Harmon-Kardon, or similar for not much money and have tube sound galore. You'll also get slightly rolled-off highs & tubby bass, but that's what was available in the old days.
You could buy a new Chinese tube preamp (they're all over eBay) with better sound than the classics, but still kind of wooly.
You could also get a "modern" tube preamp from a reputable manufacturer that will be nearly as neutral as your XSP-1 but with that elusive "tube bloom." Examples would include the Frank Van Alstine products, the tubes4hifi products, any tube product by Audio Research, newer Conrad-Johnson preamps, or the newer McIntosh tube preamps.
I have a McIntosh C220 (the entry level version of their highly-regarded C-2200). I also use it with an Emotiva power amp (XPA-2) and a pair of Axiom 100s. I'm VERY pleased with the setup. But to get it to sound like what I had in mind, I removed the stock (Chinese) McIntosh tubes and replaced them with a premium matched set of Genelex Gold Lions. Sounds wonderful!
So the bottom line is that the tube McIntosh preamp with my other equipment provides the best sound I've heard from my system. I plan to keep the preamp for its sound, its construction, and its durability. I ended up selling my XSP-1, gen. 2. I probably could have spent less, but the Mac reputation for durability convinced me to pony up the extra $$. The current (and only tube) McIntosh preamp in their line is the C2500. It isn't cheap, but you get what you pay for. And what you pay for, specifically are:
1. Better than average engineering & construction
2. Extended treble without etch, excessive brightness, or unrealistic "sparkle"
3. Bass just as tight as a good solid state preamp
4. Better than average resale value if you ever want to let it go
5. Tube bloom in the midrange but without becoming excessive
6. McIntosh looks (if you care about such things; I don't)
7. The ability to slightly modify the preamp's sound via tube rolling
8. No hiss, hum, or noise
Happy shopping!
PS - And YES Rogue Audio is also most excellent!
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 6, 2016 15:31:27 GMT -5
The Mcintosh preamp is superior to the XSP-1 in treble and general detail retrieval. It's not the perfect preamp. It does "tube" the sound a bit in the bass and slightly less transparent than the original signal. But then again I haven't heard the perfect preamp.
Also McIntosh looks are fantastic. However if I was spending that kind of dough I would be looking at the Audio GD Master 1 preamp or the audio GD HE-1. But those are solid state preamps designed for extreme performance and transparency. You won't have tube flavor or the ability to tube roll with them.
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 16:57:20 GMT -5
Thanks Boomzilla and Garbulky for the suggestions.
I will check those ones.
Just how different are the Chinese ones you refer to (any name?) to the mc intosh?
I don't want the bottoms to sound flabby.
Maybe I should first go and listen to some tube pre that are available to see just how the tube sound is before buying one as I would be buying online and I believe the good ones do not have any trial period.
Cheers
Cube
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 17:02:22 GMT -5
Is the Teac indeed my weak point?
If so, the tube pre will not help much right?
The Teac had some rave reviews and that's why I got it.
Would I be better off to switch the Teac with another one?
|
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 6, 2016 17:48:21 GMT -5
Okay. This is what I would do instead. Already all your gear are quite good. If you are not satisfied with the sound then this probably isn't the most cost effective way to improve it. YOur XSP-1 has one VERY good ability. And that is the ease in which it does dual subs. You should get dual subs imo over any of the other things. Two of these www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/new-subwoofers/products/15s(or the 15V) will give you way more of an audio boost than anything else. Now remember this isn't for the room shaking. It provides a more smooth frequency response even at soft volumes. The sound becomes more solid and more stable and well placed. There is a greater dimensionality to the sound. |
|
|
|
Post by Boomzilla on Mar 6, 2016 17:54:56 GMT -5
...Maybe I should first go and listen to some tube pre that are available to see just how the tube sound is before buying one as I would be buying online and I believe the good ones do not have any trial period. Yes, yes, and yes again. NEVER buy anything (if you can help it) without having heard it. If there's a return period, then that's OK. But if something isn't worth your money, don't buy it. What I like may not be what you do. Were you in Louisiana, you'd be welcome to drop in & audition my rig, but that's probably not likely... DACs do sound differently from one another. Not as big a difference as in speakers, for example, but probably far more than differences in preamps or amps. Just because a DAC is well reviewed does NOT mean that it will sound like any heavenly choir in your system. And just as much as speakers, DACs are system-dependent. What sounds great in your neighbor's system may not sound at all the same in yours. So for DACs and speakers, there's just no substitute for do-it-yourself listening. Happy shopping! |
|
|
|
Post by garbulky on Mar 6, 2016 18:00:05 GMT -5
|
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 6, 2016 19:07:51 GMT -5
Hi Garbulky
Yes I use that stereo sub feature of the xsp already and the bass is quiet fine.
The instrument separation is also there (front to back) However, the horizontal imaging is lacking sometimes.
For example, drum rolls span across the sound stage as if the drum kit is huge and there are drums across 10 feet.
Hope you get what I mean.
I do have a huge glass wall right next to the right hand side. Is this the DAC or reflections?
Thank you for the offer Boomzilla. No I do not stay anywhere close to you sadly or I would have take. Up the offer.
The C2500 is quiet a bit more than what I am looking to commit at this point. So I have to look for a used one or another one that's not more than 5k
|
|
KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,273
|
Post by KeithL on Mar 7, 2016 11:50:43 GMT -5
If you want tube sound, then you should check out a Schiit Lyr II (it is a headphone amp, but has line level outputs, and can be used as a preamp).
It will absolutely add a little bit of "tube warmth" to things...
|
|
|
|
Post by Chuck Elliot on Mar 7, 2016 12:47:24 GMT -5
I've posted about this before. The idea here is that you have a tube unit the applies gain to the input signal and then attenuates the amplified signal back to the original level. This allows a tube coloration to be passed in the signal with no amplification. It can go between a pre/pwr amp or a processor loop such as the XSP-1 has. In one of the circuits illustrated, you even have an adjustable gain/attenuation factor to allow varying coloration. See second part of the article for the Harmonic Restorer schematics (for the technically inclined): Harmonic Restorer on TubeCAD.com |
|
|
|
Post by audiobill on Mar 7, 2016 23:10:55 GMT -5
Or just buy a tube amp, and skip all this pseudo stuff.
|
|
|
|
Post by rtg97229 on Mar 8, 2016 1:42:09 GMT -5
Okay. This is what I would do instead. Already all your gear are quite good. If you are not satisfied with the sound then this probably isn't the most cost effective way to improve it. YOur XSP-1 has one VERY good ability. And that is the ease in which it does dual subs. You should get dual subs imo over any of the other things. Two of these www.powersoundaudio.com/collections/new-subwoofers/products/15s(or the 15V) will give you way more of an audio boost than anything else. Now remember this isn't for the room shaking. It provides a more smooth frequency response even at soft volumes. The sound becomes more solid and more stable and well placed. There is a greater dimensionality to the sound. I agree but I have another suggestion. The 2 subs in this listing. emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/46062/power-sound-audio-martin-audeze |
|
RCUBE
Minor Hero
Posts: 59
|
Post by RCUBE on Mar 8, 2016 7:45:53 GMT -5
Thank you all for the suggestions.
How will dual Subs help if the problem is as below??
- the sound is lacking weight (what **I mean here is it is not full bodied)
- the soundstage is weird at times. The drums sometimes roll all across 10 feel (distance between speakers)
- the unexplainable tube sound is missing (I had a tube radio cum amp I inherited from my dad so I know what that sounds like)
The mc intosh referred by Boomzilla is 10k+ and that's more than what I was looking for (hence looking at the c220)
Cheers
Cube
|
|
