Tell me about Primaluna.

[novisnick]

As suggested by a member here, Im looking at these products, dont get me wrong I do love my Emo gear but im thinking maybe a tube preamp with my vinyl set-up.

Im guessing no 30 day trial? Dont know if ill like the sound, but I do know that if I step in with something cheap, thats what it will sound like.

Like when I purchased my Rega RP 6 with the Exact cartridge, cheaper rige would not have satisfied me.

Do you have experience? What are your thoughts? Should I gamble in hopes that I like it? Is Primaluna a good honest value like I consider Emotiva?

Should I ba asking elsewhere?
I ask here because I trust my friends on this forum, not so much at others.

Thanks all.

[guitarforlife]

Hey, Audiobill had mentioned Bob Latino at Tubes 4 HiFi.
I have checked it out, he has some nice looking amps as well as pre amps.
You can order a pre with a tube phono stage built in it. The stuff looks great and the prices are good. Check his stuff out.

There may be some forum brothers that own some and will chime in on it.

I think I'm going to order a pair of mono blocks with a tube pre with tube phono stage and a pair of Maggie 1.7's. Any way just a thought

[novisnick]

Mar 6, 2016 0:46:29 GMT -5 guitarforlife said:

Hey, Audiobill had mentioned Bob Latino at Tubes 4 HiFi.
I have checked it out, he has some nice looking amps as well as pre amps.
You can order a pre with a tube phono stage built in it. The stuff looks great and the prices are good. Check his stuff out.

There may be some forum brothers that own some and will chime in on it.

I think I'm going to order a pair of mono blocks with a tube pre with tube phono stage and a pair of Maggie 1.7's. Any way just a thought

Thanks, Ill take all the thoughts I can get. I have looked at Audiobills suggestions as well, still undesided,,,,,,,,,and looking for funds!!,,,,ha,,,,,ha,,,,,ha,,,,,,

[audiobill]

Guys, please feel free to pm me with any questions you may have.

[brubacca]

You specifically asked about PrimaLuna so here goes.

I had one experience with a PrinaLuna product. I auditioned a Prologue Premium integrated amp. It was built well and sounded really good on jazz and blues style music. It was quite amazing. My memory is a magical midrange and no bass. I attribute that to the power tubes in the amp which were el34.

Summing up- Great Build quality, very good sound, audition required. Designed in Holland and built in China (I believe). Nice products, good prices. I felt that the tube pre-a,p was a bit expensive comparred to the integrated.

I'll also put in a plug for Rogue Audio. The new RP-1 is said to have a phenominal phono stage. I had a brief listen and it sounded really good.

[sounder]

Nick, I have the experience you are looking for. My two channel setup has seen some seriously good marantz reference equipment, as well as emotiva. I have B&W 803N speakers, a project RM 5.1 SE turntable and a Jolida JD9 phono preamp. At one time I has a USP1 with UPA2 amps. Later added two UPA1 mono blocks and had it in a bi-amp configuration. It was very good, but in my room a little bright.

Then I got the bug to try tubes. I actually took my speakers to the dealer and listened to several integrated amps. I finally settled on the Primaluna Dialogue One. That I had for over four years. During that time I upgraded from KT88 tubes to KT120. I also played a little with the input tubes ad found Mazda 12AX7s to be my favorite. It was like that for about three years. I just loved it, and so did everyone who came over. The brightness I heard with the emo gear was completely gone, and replaced with a smooth, full, wonderful sound. I never had a minute of trouble with it, and could be happy with it for a long time.

Then the upgrade bug got me. I wanted just a little more bass control in the B&Ws. Not that they really needed it, but I wanted to see what I could get. I ended up with the Dialogue Premium HP integrated, which doubles the output power. Right away I put the KT120s into it, since I already had a set of four, meaning I would only need four. (When I sold the One, the kt88 tubes went with it). The KT120s do have more power than the stock EL34s as brubacca noted. The upgrade is excellent. I got the fuller bass, but I also got a cleaner, clearer overall sound. This one really is a keeper. Even if I wanted to upgrade, the price to really improve would be ridiculous. Point is, I loved the Dialogue One so much that when I was shopping for an upgrade, I didn't consider anything else but Primaluna.

How that applies to you is this. If you like your current amp, try either the prologue preamp or the dialogue premium preamp. I think either would serve you well. The primary reason that Brubacca would notice any lack of bass is about the amp. Certainly the amp in the prologue is lesser than the dialogue series. The dialogue premium preamp added to your setup would be an excellent choice. Clarity, plenty of gain, and just a sweet sound. But I think even the prologue would be good for you as well. I'm just less familiar with it. And, btw, I suspect that what brubacca heard may be related to the speakers, the room, or something else.

I think Primaluna is a great product, well built, and an excellent value for what you get. No, I am not affiliated with them, but I'm very proud of my system, and love to show it off for my friends.

Btw, I typically listen to classic rock, blues, and a little jazz. I say go for it. I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you are, it's really easy to sell PL gear.

[novisnick]

Mar 8, 2016 19:15:57 GMT -5 sounder said:

Nick, I have the experience you are looking for. My two channel setup has seen some seriously good marantz reference equipment, as well as emotiva. I have B&W 803N speakers, a project RM 5.1 SE turntable and a Jolida JD9 phono preamp. At one time I has a USP1 with UPA2 amps. Later added two UPA1 mono blocks and had it in a bi-amp configuration. It was very good, but in my room a little bright.

Then I got the bug to try tubes. I actually took my speakers to the dealer and listened to several integrated amps. I finally settled on the Primaluna Dialogue One. That I had for over four years. During that time I upgraded from KT88 tubes to KT120. I also played a little with the input tubes ad found Mazda 12AX7s to be my favorite. It was like that for about three years. I just loved it, and so did everyone who came over. The brightness I heard with the emo gear was completely gone, and replaced with a smooth, full, wonderful sound. I never had a minute of trouble with it, and could be happy with it for a long time.

Then the upgrade bug got me. I wanted just a little more bass control in the B&Ws. Not that they really needed it, but I wanted to see what I could get. I ended up with the Dialogue Premium HP integrated, which doubles the output power. Right away I put the KT120s into it, since I already had a set of four, meaning I would only need four. (When I sold the One, the kt88 tubes went with it). The KT120s do have more power than the stock EL34s as brubacca noted. The upgrade is excellent. I got the fuller bass, but I also got a cleaner, clearer overall sound. This one really is a keeper. Even if I wanted to upgrade, the price to really improve would be ridiculous. Point is, I loved the Dialogue One so much that when I was shopping for an upgrade, I didn't consider anything else but Primaluna.

How that applies to you is this. If you like your current amp, try either the prologue preamp or the dialogue premium preamp. I think either would serve you well. The primary reason that Brubacca would notice any lack of bass is about the amp. Certainly the amp in the prologue is lesser than the dialogue series. The dialogue premium preamp added to your setup would be an excellent choice. Clarity, plenty of gain, and just a sweet sound. But I think even the prologue would be good for you as well. I'm just less familiar with it. And, btw, I suspect that what brubacca heard may be related to the speakers, the room, or something else.

I think Primaluna is a great product, well built, and an excellent value for what you get. No, I am not affiliated with them, but I'm very proud of my system, and love to show it off for my friends.

Btw, I typically listen to classic rock, blues, and a little jazz. I say go for it. I doubt you'll be disappointed. If you are, it's really easy to sell PL gear.

Thaks so much for taking your time and effort to tell me your story/journey with PL, its most appreciated I assure you.
my Studio 100 supply plenty of bass for two channel, I very rarely turn on a sub with them, unless I just want to shake the house that is, but its rare. I dont think I'd replace the XPR-1s unless I was completely floored, but then again, Id have to sell them to afford MONOBLOCKS ala tubes!,,,,,,,,,arg!!

[sounder]

By the way, I don't mean to sound like I'm dissing emotiva in any way. I still have my IPS1 and have been very happy with it! It's a great amp too.

Good luck with your journey. Let me know if I can help in any way.

[bluemeanies]

Nick, first happy hunting! Funtime!
I am a convert to tube amplifiers via audiobill. This is not to say that audiobill convinced me to switch to tubes from my XPA1's gen ll. I had considered tube amplifiers for a long time. A decade long. My search encompassed cheaply made products. I was in the market for tube mono-blocks. In short the ones I liked and admired for there performance were EXPENSIVE.
I went with a friend of mine who was looking for a pair of monitors at a B&M store in Allentown Pa. They ran a ROGUE Cronus audio magnum stereo tube amplifier to a pair of WARFARDALE and HARBETH SPEAKERS. I was impressed. The esthetics of the ROGUE were simple and drew you in to the appeal of tubes. Price wise it was in my ballpark. I was doing so serious financial calculating but held off from the purchase thinking that by finding ROGUE by accident I might find other tube amplifiers that are as well built and affordable. ROGUE being built in Pennsylvania was a PLUS. Something that I hadn't known. The only negative was that the ROGUE was STEREO.
Immediately after observing the ROGUE I was invited by audiobill to come to his home and give a listen to his system with the DYNACO m125 mono-blocks.
Now, audiobill setup is located in the heart of his house. A large living/family room with 18' ceilings open to a large kitchen area. With Windows located on one side giving a beautiful panoramic view of the outdoors.
Dynaco m125 mono-blocks powering a pair of 20 year old Dynaudio Gemini Speakers with the GRACE m920 as the control center.
In short I was blown away. Soundstage, and overall tonal quality were perfect to my ears.
The lifelike feeling I had from a multi-genre of music that audiobill played from TIDAL hit me in mind, body and soul.
My concern at the time was whether or not the m125's could sufficiently power my B&W804S speakers. There was no heastation from audiobill. His quick, unhesitated response was affirmative.
Since, I have purchased the B&W 803diamonds and the m125' do an outstanding job.
Nick if you are strongly considering tube amplifiers or pre-amp it would be to your advantage to check out "tubes4hifi".
All 100% made and built in the USA.
If you want more technical information that may not be on the website I suggest a PM to audiobill. He has an abundance of knowledge about tubes and he is very generous in helping people see the light.

Lastly NICK have fun shopping!

[audiosyndrome]

Nov- I've never heard any of the Primaluna pres or amps, and I have nothing against tube equipment BUT. Check out any of the Primaluna reviews and their measurements in Stereophile. "Not bad for a tube amp" according to Atkinson. But to me terrible. You're listening to all sorts of harmonic distortion which many people may find pleasing but you're not listening to what's on your media IMO.

Russ

[guitarforlife]

Mar 9, 2016 9:46:00 GMT -5 bluemeanies said:

Nick, first happy hunting! Funtime!
I am a convert to tube amplifiers via audiobill. This is not to say that audiobill convinced me to switch to tubes from my XPA1's gen ll. I had considered tube amplifiers for a long time. A decade long. My search encompassed cheaply made products. I was in the market for tube mono-blocks. In short the ones I liked and admired for there performance were EXPENSIVE.
I went with a friend of mine who was looking for a pair of monitors at a B&M store in Allentown Pa. They ran a ROGUE Cronus audio magnum stereo tube amplifier to a pair of WARFARDALE and HARBETH SPEAKERS. I was impressed. The esthetics of the ROGUE were simple and drew you in to the appeal of tubes. Price wise it was in my ballpark. I was doing so serious financial calculating but held off from the purchase thinking that by finding ROGUE by accident I might find other tube amplifiers that are as well built and affordable. ROGUE being built in Pennsylvania was a PLUS. Something that I hadn't known. The only negative was that the ROGUE was STEREO.
Immediately after observing the ROGUE I was invited by audiobill to come to his home and give a listen to his system with the DYNACO m125 mono-blocks.
Now, audiobill setup is located in the heart of his house. A large living/family room with 18' ceilings open to a large kitchen area. With Windows located on one side giving a beautiful panoramic view of the outdoors.
Dynaco m125 mono-blocks powering a pair of 20 year old Dynaudio Gemini Speakers with the GRACE m920 as the control center.
In short I was blown away. Soundstage, and overall tonal quality were perfect to my ears.
The lifelike feeling I had from a multi-genre of music that audiobill played from TIDAL hit me in mind, body and soul.
My concern at the time was whether or not the m125's could sufficiently power my B&W804S speakers. There was no heastation from audiobill. His quick, unhesitated response was affirmative.
Since, I have purchased the B&W 803diamonds and the m125' do an outstanding job.
Nick if you are strongly considering tube amplifiers or pre-amp it would be to your advantage to check out "tubes4hifi".
All 100% made and built in the USA.
If you want more technical information that may not be on the website I suggest a PM to audiobill. He has an abundance of knowledge about tubes and he is very generous in helping people see the light.

Lastly NICK have fun shopping!

Great advice !!!

[bluemeanies]

Mar 9, 2016 10:56:27 GMT -5 audiosyndrome said:

Nov- I've never heard any of the Primaluna pres or amps, and I have nothing against tube equipment BUT. Check out any of the Primaluna reviews and their measurements in Stereophile. "Not bad for a tube amp" according to Atkinson. But to me terrible. You're listening to all sorts of harmonic distortion which many people may find pleasing but you're not listening to what's on your media IMO.

Russ

I politely disagree but everyone is entitled to opinions.
There is a reason they call it "HARMONIC" distortion. The word harmonic tells it all. All reviews are subjective and as far as measurements...what's the point!
You listen with your ears and I would bet it would be total bliss with the PrimaLuna as with any quality tube amplifier from tubes4hifi.

[mgbpuff]

Primaluna - classic Marantz copycats

[novisnick]

Mar 9, 2016 12:46:41 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

Primaluna - classic Marantz copycats

Would you care to elaborate?

[Boomzilla]

Primaluna - They read good, but I've never heard their products.

[mgbpuff]

Mar 9, 2016 12:57:23 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Mar 9, 2016 12:46:41 GMT -5 mgbpuff said:

Primaluna - classic Marantz copycats

Would you care to elaborate?

From the PrimaLuna site itself ' "The original PrimaLuna integrateds, the ProLogue One and Two, have reached cult status and are now a collectible that will no doubt be iconic in the years to come. Some are going so far as to call them "The Marantz 8B of our time". The multi-award winning ProLouge One was in a recommended system called "Tube Nirvana" by The Absolute Sound's Robert Harley. Stereophile's Art Dudley stated "Lustily, heartily, and enthusiastically...recommended." The ProLogue Two was loved the world over in review after review.

If something works, don't fix it. But there were still improvements that could be made. The PrimaLuna engineers in The Netherlands went to work to make this the new classic. "

[mgbpuff]

Basically they started out by building Marantz 8B and 9 circuits improved with an auto bias scheme!

[mgbpuff]

There is very little new in tube amps.

[bluemeanies]

Mar 9, 2016 12:59:16 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Primaluna - They read good, but I've never heard their products.

Boom,
I was able to have the $2399 ProLogue Premium Integrated Prima Luna tube amplifier demonstrated with my now currently owned B&W 803diamonds.
Very nice amplifier. I know I am being bias but I think my Dynaco m125's make my diamonds sound warmer, more earthy.
In case your wondering I had several hours with the PL.
The Prima Luna is a worthy investment.
The m125's are a personal choice.

[KeithL]

Sorry, but they call it harmonic distortion because it occurs at various harmonics (multiples) of the original frequency.
(The word you're thinking of is "euphonic" - which roughly translates to "sounds nice".)
Virtually every sound you hear in music consists of a main frequency, and various amounts of various harmonics, which are one of the things that give the instruments their characteristic sounds.
The fact that you may prefer equipment that alters the balance between the primaries and their harmonics, rather than equipment that just plays it as it receives it, is just a personal preference.

In defense of this point of view, a lot of modern music is recorded with closely spaced microphones, and the result is that it is often "dry" sounding
(the drum sounds more like what the drummer would hear, sitting right next to the drum, than like what you would hear sitting in the audience).
And you can make that recording sound more like what the audience hears by adding some reverberance and "fattening" it by adding extra harmonic content.
This can be done by the recording engineer - if he wants to - although many people prefer this "cleaner" sound.
And tube equipment does sort of the same thing by adding second harmonics - which can add a sort of "smoothness" or "sparkle", and can even improve the intelligibility of some vocals.

The point, however, is that you have crossed over the line from REPRODUCING the recording accurately to PRODUCING a new sound that is based on the recording - but deliberately altered in some way.
When John Atkinson measures a product, he's measuring how well it can REPRODUCE the recording - which often has little to do with how much you do or don't enjoy any colorations it may introduce.
(And most tube equipment does NOT reproduce things nearly as accurately as good solid state equipment... )

However, to be fair, most people do agree that, IF you're going to add distortion to music:
* Harmonic distortion sounds less unpleasant than distortion that is NOT harmonically related to the music
* Higher order harmonics sound more unpleasant than lower order ones (second harmonic sounds a lot less annoying than third or fourth)
* Second harmonic distortion (as I mentioned) can actually make music sound "fuller" or "smoother"

Mar 9, 2016 11:26:31 GMT -5 bluemeanies said:

Mar 9, 2016 10:56:27 GMT -5 audiosyndrome said:

Nov- I've never heard any of the Primaluna pres or amps, and I have nothing against tube equipment BUT. Check out any of the Primaluna reviews and their measurements in Stereophile. "Not bad for a tube amp" according to Atkinson. But to me terrible. You're listening to all sorts of harmonic distortion which many people may find pleasing but you're not listening to what's on your media IMO.

Russ

I politely disagree but everyone is entitled to opinions.
There is a reason they call it "HARMONIC" distortion. The word harmonic tells it all. All reviews are subjective and as far as measurements...what's the point!
You listen with your ears and I would bet it would be total bliss with the PrimaLuna as with any quality tube amplifier from tubes4hifi.