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Post by audiobill on Jul 26, 2018 18:02:43 GMT -5
Try a pair of 140 wpc VTA M125 monoblocks for about $2,800 (PAIR) , all in assembled.
Each part top quality, made in USA.
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Post by MasterHiFi on Jul 26, 2018 18:36:24 GMT -5
I love the idea of kits, but do NOT see the core EMO buyer as a big soldering iron / solder sucker / DVM guy (for bias after construction). I can't even get any traction for a group buy of 100 feet of Belden 83803 to construct 12ga power cords, which would work wonders with any of the larger 5 channel and even the mondo-monos. diyaudiostore.com/products/amp-camp-amp-kit?variant=7072933085218How many here would even CONSIDER this a viable amp? 'only' 8 watts per side and just over 300$ for the complete kit with GOOD parts. Or for that matter, how many here even know about Bottlehead kits? Good value, good stuff and a loyal following. ME? I'd consider a very good Stereo 70 COPY with SS rectification, and good, beefy transformers of a more modern design. Maybe Partner Up with Bob Latino? Yeah, I sympathize with the lack of enthusiasm. Maybe we could take a poll. Most of these forum architectures have a built-in Poll function. I know Bob has had people who have never held a soldering gun follow his step-by-step instructions with excellent results. I'd bet good money (not my own of course) that BL would love to partner up. Anything to help increase his brand. Just maybe his ST-70 and 120 would gain some traction? His transformers are top rate, and his SP14 pre is already a cult legend. But if there are no buyers, the point is moot. |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jul 27, 2018 7:04:06 GMT -5
Yes, wow indeed! A syllabus of regurgitated, but little understood, amplifier design history from tubes to present solid state. Keith, however, in spite of the wordiness of Monsieur MasterHiFi, is the more accurate assessment being based on sound engineering knowledge. But this was entitled "tell me about Prima Luna". I thought of buying Prima Luna 15 or so years ago when it first debuted. But I realized that except for auto biasing, there was nothing new in their designs which,admittedly by their own advertising, was based on old Marantz designs ( own an original Marantz 8B). The product is well made, but to experience audiophile bliss, you must be willing to seek out the speakers that can compliment the weaknesses of high output impedance, that usually being a vintage or high efficiency horn type design. I like the sound of a well matched system whether it be tube based or solid state, but these days it is easier to realize that goal with solid state and modern speakers. Well, I might as well up my post count and get back on topic. You have 2,023 posts, I have 3. I definitely agree. I know, as the saying goes, just enough to be dangerous - literally. I don't think you'd want to leave me alone with an undiagnosed high voltage tube amp and a screwdriver, unless you're a fan of barbecue. While previous models of PrimaLuna definitely had high output impedance, which does preclude many speakers, the newer HP line has resolved this to a great extent, making them a viable option with a much broader range of options. And they don't have that Marantz 8B character. They're much closer to SS not just in performance, but also in sound. Of course, that's an investment, and you can achieve more than acceptable results with SS for less money, if that's an issue. Speaking of investments, if you have an 8B, it's like having a high interest bearing account on your shelf. Do you have the matching 7 preamp? Do you have it up and running? If so, what pre and speakers do you have paired with it? Do you dance with an Egyptian mummy? No I have not used the 8B for a few years, but I could; I just don't want to challenge the gods unnecessarily. For many years it was paired to AR2x speakers (which I also still have). I used it with a Dynaco Pas3x preamp. |
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 27, 2018 8:10:15 GMT -5
GREAT THREAD..I have to agree that a lot of people on the EMO forum to be polite want to consider themselves THRIFTY with their purchases. I definitely think that for the HT enthusiast EMOTIVA gives a GREAT bang for the buck but to consider or label EMOTIVA as Hi-End I involuntarily grit my teeth.
As far as tubes are concern I also agree that it is the bottom line that understandably is EMOTIVA's concern. I cannot imagine the RETURN on the dollar per damages with deliveries the way such companies as Fed-Ex & UPS handle packages.
I digress.
My point to make is you get what you pay for. If one searches hard enough there are many internet companies out there that make a quality product regarding tubes and they are made here in the U.S.A. Rogue for one is located here in my state of Pennsylvania. I was considering the Rogue Cronus Magnum Intergrated Amplifier to pair with my B&W804S speakers at a fair price which at this time escapes me. I was on the musical side of my enthusiasm for this hobby dismayed 😩 at my 2channel listening with SS. My room is not the biggest and I would consider it to be below average in size due to my 7' ceiling limitation and 10' width.
Hey, what am I complaining about...I have a dedicated room.
Let's get back to the meat and potatoes 🥔.
I regressed on not getting the Rogue since I wanted mono-blocks and I did not have the finances to make that investment AND I was not sure if ROGUE was right for me. I also at the time did not want to be on the easy payment plan.
McIntosh...LOL! $6500.00 for a stereo tube amplifier? BTW nothing against McIntosh, a fine product but I would bet 40% of the cost is your buying the name. Just my thought.
At this very moment I have musical bliss. I don't think it could get any better, although I am short on soundstage I do not see myself moving any time soon for a bigger listening room.
After a couple years I met audiobill who invited me to give a listen to his Dynaudio Genesis speakers that at the time were 20years old with external crossovers AND he purchased them as a kit assembling them himself. Bill is a modest guy and was very gracious. The Dynaudio's endless drive was driven but the Bob Latino m125 mono-blocks. The room was filled with sublime music, mostly jazz but Bill played a cornucopia of music trying to give me a visual as well as audio experience as to what MY end game could be without breaking the bank.
Listening to Bill's system was like going to your favorite audio store where everything is PERFECT. Midrange, soundstage, dynamics and most important realism...LIFELIKE presence of a recording. The idea or feeling like the artist was in the room.
Since,I have purchased the m125's and have gone with tubes for my listening pleasure I have LIFELIKE, REALISM performances every time I warm up the valves.
Certainly this hobby IS a journey that never ends and never comes to total perfection but I believe that in part is b/c the listener becomes too involved with the equipment and is not listening to the music.
Great THREAD
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Post by pedrocols on Jul 27, 2018 9:11:03 GMT -5
Well, I might as well up my post count and get back on topic. You have 2,023 posts, I have 3. I definitely agree. I know, as the saying goes, just enough to be dangerous - literally. I don't think you'd want to leave me alone with an undiagnosed high voltage tube amp and a screwdriver, unless you're a fan of barbecue. While previous models of PrimaLuna definitely had high output impedance, which does preclude many speakers, the newer HP line has resolved this to a great extent, making them a viable option with a much broader range of options. And they don't have that Marantz 8B character. They're much closer to SS not just in performance, but also in sound. Of course, that's an investment, and you can achieve more than acceptable results with SS for less money, if that's an issue. Speaking of investments, if you have an 8B, it's like having a high interest bearing account on your shelf. Do you have the matching 7 preamp? Do you have it up and running? If so, what pre and speakers do you have paired with it? Do you dance with an Egyptian mummy? No I have not used the 8B for a few years, but I could; I just don't want to challenge the gods unnecessarily. For many years it was paired to AR2x speakers (which I also still have). I used it with a Dynaco Pas3x preamp. I personally think male spicies hasn't evolved much since the times of the Egyptian mommy. Males are still wearing skirts amd the gods are still being unchallenged...😂🤔 |
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Post by leonski on Jul 27, 2018 14:09:22 GMT -5
GREAT THREAD..I have to agree that a lot of people on the EMO forum to be polite want to consider themselves THRIFTY with their purchases. I definitely think that for the HT enthusiast EMOTIVA gives a GREAT bang for the buck but to consider or label EMOTIVA as Hi-End I involuntarily grit my teeth. As far as tubes are concern I also agree that it is the bottom line that understandably is EMOTIVA's concern. I cannot imagine the RETURN on the dollar per damages with deliveries the way such companies as Fed-Ex & UPS handle packages. I digress. My point to make is you get what you pay for. If one searches hard enough there are many internet companies out there that make a quality product regarding tubes and they are made here in the U.S.A. Rogue for one is located here in my state of Pennsylvania. I was considering the Rogue Cronus Magnum Intergrated Amplifier to pair with my B&W804S speakers at a fair price which at this time escapes me. I was on the musical side of my enthusiasm for this hobby dismayed 😩 at my 2channel listening with SS. My room is not the biggest and I would consider it to be below average in size due to my 7' ceiling limitation and 10' width. Hey, what am I complaining about...I have a dedicated room. Let's get back to the meat and potatoes 🥔. I regressed on not getting the Rogue since I wanted mono-blocks and I did not have the finances to make that investment AND I was not sure if ROGUE was right for me. I also at the time did not want to be on the easy payment plan. McIntosh...LOL! $6500.00 for a stereo tube amplifier? BTW nothing against McIntosh, a fine product but I would bet 40% of the cost is your buying the name. Just my thought. At this very moment I have musical bliss. I don't think it could get any better, although I am short on soundstage I do not see myself moving any time soon for a bigger listening room. After a couple years I met audiobill who invited me to give a listen to his Dynaudio Genesis speakers that at the time were 20years old with external crossovers AND he purchased them as a kit assembling them himself. Bill is a modest guy and was very gracious. The Dynaudio's endless drive was driven but the Bob Latino m125 mono-blocks. The room was filled with sublime music, mostly jazz but Bill played a cornucopia of music trying to give me a visual as well as audio experience as to what MY end game could be without breaking the bank. Listening to Bill's system was like going to your favorite audio store where everything is PERFECT. Midrange, soundstage, dynamics and most important realism...LIFELIKE presence of a recording. The idea or feeling like the artist was in the room. Since,I have purchased the m125's and have gone with tubes for my listening pleasure I have LIFELIKE, REALISM performances every time I warm up the valves. Certainly this hobby IS a journey that never ends and never comes to total perfection but I believe that in part is b/c the listener becomes too involved with the equipment and is not listening to the music. Great THREAD Keep in mind that McIntosh will still support ALMOST every bit of electronics they EVER made in the amp / preamp lines. THAT'S part of what you are paying for. And while I can't vouch for this being true, at one point, rumor has it, that certain service centers as part of their agreement With McIntosh had to bump Mc stuff to the top of the pile. The MC275 is on its 6th revision, or so, each time somewhat better. www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MC275B |
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 27, 2018 15:58:50 GMT -5
GREAT THREAD..I have to agree that a lot of people on the EMO forum to be polite want to consider themselves THRIFTY with their purchases. I definitely think that for the HT enthusiast EMOTIVA gives a GREAT bang for the buck but to consider or label EMOTIVA as Hi-End I involuntarily grit my teeth. As far as tubes are concern I also agree that it is the bottom line that understandably is EMOTIVA's concern. I cannot imagine the RETURN on the dollar per damages with deliveries the way such companies as Fed-Ex & UPS handle packages. I digress. My point to make is you get what you pay for. If one searches hard enough there are many internet companies out there that make a quality product regarding tubes and they are made here in the U.S.A. Rogue for one is located here in my state of Pennsylvania. I was considering the Rogue Cronus Magnum Intergrated Amplifier to pair with my B&W804S speakers at a fair price which at this time escapes me. I was on the musical side of my enthusiasm for this hobby dismayed 😩 at my 2channel listening with SS. My room is not the biggest and I would consider it to be below average in size due to my 7' ceiling limitation and 10' width. Hey, what am I complaining about...I have a dedicated room. Let's get back to the meat and potatoes 🥔. I regressed on not getting the Rogue since I wanted mono-blocks and I did not have the finances to make that investment AND I was not sure if ROGUE was right for me. I also at the time did not want to be on the easy payment plan. McIntosh...LOL! $6500.00 for a stereo tube amplifier? BTW nothing against McIntosh, a fine product but I would bet 40% of the cost is your buying the name. Just my thought. At this very moment I have musical bliss. I don't think it could get any better, although I am short on soundstage I do not see myself moving any time soon for a bigger listening room. After a couple years I met audiobill who invited me to give a listen to his Dynaudio Genesis speakers that at the time were 20years old with external crossovers AND he purchased them as a kit assembling them himself. Bill is a modest guy and was very gracious. The Dynaudio's endless drive was driven but the Bob Latino m125 mono-blocks. The room was filled with sublime music, mostly jazz but Bill played a cornucopia of music trying to give me a visual as well as audio experience as to what MY end game could be without breaking the bank. Listening to Bill's system was like going to your favorite audio store where everything is PERFECT. Midrange, soundstage, dynamics and most important realism...LIFELIKE presence of a recording. The idea or feeling like the artist was in the room. Since,I have purchased the m125's and have gone with tubes for my listening pleasure I have LIFELIKE, REALISM performances every time I warm up the valves. Certainly this hobby IS a journey that never ends and never comes to total perfection but I believe that in part is b/c the listener becomes too involved with the equipment and is not listening to the music. Great THREAD Keep in mind that McIntosh will still support ALMOST every bit of electronics they EVER made in the amp / preamp lines. THAT'S part of what you are paying for. And while I can't vouch for this being true, at one point, rumor has it, that certain service centers as part of their agreement With McIntosh had to bump Mc stuff to the top of the pile. The MC275 is on its 6th revision, or so, each time somewhat better. www.mcintoshlabs.com/products/amplifiers/MC275BThat's is nice....but are you saying that the warranty is endless? I don't think you mean that but that is important and I had to ask. I personally love Mc but I do think it is over priced. Also I feel comfortable knowing how well my m125's were built and by who on a personal level. I have owned them for going better than four years without an issue. I recently purchased the SP14 pre and the Audionote 4.1 LE DAC.. Without breaking the bank I might add. That said I sincerely agree with your feelings about Mc...it is a good company and reliable. In the end money is relative. |
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Post by MasterHiFi on Jul 27, 2018 15:59:35 GMT -5
Do you dance with an Egyptian mummy? No I have not used the 8B for a few years, but I could; I just don't want to challenge the gods unnecessarily. For many years it was paired to AR2x speakers (which I also still have). I used it with a Dynaco Pas3x preamp. Your deference to caution is admirable. Personally, as unwise as it might be, I would find it difficult to resist the temptation of hooking it up to something, anything, just so I could bask in the glory of its sound-waves. I love those old ARs. The 80's models I think were the best. I have a couple pair of the really old bookshelf types, with the orange tweeter (no idea what they were made out of). Also had for a while the PAS3, but it was too noisy for me so off it went. That was a great vintage setup you had, front to back. |
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Post by leonski on Jul 27, 2018 18:09:08 GMT -5
couple things:
For Blue: In a disposible world, support doesn't matter. It breaks, than gets replaced with latest / greatest. I know a couple persons with 30 to 50 year old Mc. Still fixable by Mc, in some cases (like case parts and such) with original pieces.
Of Course the warranty isn't 'endless'. But Support continues.
I sent my MG-1 Magnepans to White Bear Lake when they were 20 or more years on. The only question was one of Grill Cloth Color.
And for leaving an old piece in storage? I'd plug it in on some regular basis. One day, if sold to someone as 'good' and enough time has passed, it'll simply have some kind of malfunction, usually involving the larger PS caps which have dried out or
have some kind of 'zap-thru' caused by disuse. Gear which has sat long enough can usually be recovered by starting at some lower voltage and slowly ramping up. A Variac is recommended for this purpose.
And yes, some DO dance with an Egyptian Mummy. Usually Daddy.
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,090
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Post by klinemj on Jul 27, 2018 18:15:28 GMT -5
I can't believe I missed this thread when it started. I have really been enjoying my Primaluna amp. Great sound, easy to live with (auto-bias is great), and with the option to run it in HT Bypass mode and use the XMC-1 as volume control with the XMC-1 in reference stereo but my trick wiring to enable a sub in reference stereo - I have just what I want.
Mark
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Post by MasterHiFi on Jul 27, 2018 18:55:12 GMT -5
GREAT THREAD..I have to agree that a lot of people on the EMO forum to be polite want to consider themselves THRIFTY with their purchases. I definitely think that for the HT enthusiast EMOTIVA gives a GREAT bang for the buck but to consider or label EMOTIVA as Hi-End I involuntarily grit my teeth. As far as tubes are concern I also agree that it is the bottom line that understandably is EMOTIVA's concern. I cannot imagine the RETURN on the dollar per damages with deliveries the way such companies as Fed-Ex & UPS handle packages. I digress. My point to make is you get what you pay for. If one searches hard enough there are many internet companies out there that make a quality product regarding tubes and they are made here in the U.S.A. Rogue for one is located here in my state of Pennsylvania. I was considering the Rogue Cronus Magnum Intergrated Amplifier to pair with my B&W804S speakers at a fair price which at this time escapes me. I was on the musical side of my enthusiasm for this hobby dismayed 😩 at my 2channel listening with SS. My room is not the biggest and I would consider it to be below average in size due to my 7' ceiling limitation and 10' width. Hey, what am I complaining about...I have a dedicated room. Let's get back to the meat and potatoes 🥔. I regressed on not getting the Rogue since I wanted mono-blocks and I did not have the finances to make that investment AND I was not sure if ROGUE was right for me. I also at the time did not want to be on the easy payment plan. McIntosh...LOL! $6500.00 for a stereo tube amplifier? BTW nothing against McIntosh, a fine product but I would bet 40% of the cost is your buying the name. Just my thought. At this very moment I have musical bliss. I don't think it could get any better, although I am short on soundstage I do not see myself moving any time soon for a bigger listening room. After a couple years I met audiobill who invited me to give a listen to his Dynaudio Genesis speakers that at the time were 20years old with external crossovers AND he purchased them as a kit assembling them himself. Bill is a modest guy and was very gracious. The Dynaudio's endless drive was driven but the Bob Latino m125 mono-blocks. The room was filled with sublime music, mostly jazz but Bill played a cornucopia of music trying to give me a visual as well as audio experience as to what MY end game could be without breaking the bank. Listening to Bill's system was like going to your favorite audio store where everything is PERFECT. Midrange, soundstage, dynamics and most important realism...LIFELIKE presence of a recording. The idea or feeling like the artist was in the room. Since,I have purchased the m125's and have gone with tubes for my listening pleasure I have LIFELIKE, REALISM performances every time I warm up the valves. Certainly this hobby IS a journey that never ends and never comes to total perfection but I believe that in part is b/c the listener becomes too involved with the equipment and is not listening to the music. Great THREAD That's is nice....but are you saying that the warranty is endless? I don't think you mean that but that is important and I had to ask. I personally love Mc but I do think it is over priced. Also I feel comfortable knowing how well my m125's were built and by who on a personal level. I have owned them for going better than four years without an issue. I recently purchased the SP14 pre and the Audionote 4.1 LE DAC.. Without breaking the bank I might add. That said I sincerely agree with your feelings about Mc...it is a good company and reliable. In the end money is relative. Okay bluemeanies, now I can assault you as I did boomzilla about your avatar. Interestingly, his comes from a CyberPunk novel, and yours is most definitely Steampunk. Coincidentally, I sell Steampunk jewelry, goggles and such, so am very dialed into the aesthetic. So how did you happen across that very cool Steampunk skull image? As per your post, I can understand your disappointment (if I am understanding you correctly) with your B&W 804s with your SS amp. I used to sell B&W (back in the Matrix days, so that dates me more than a little) and know their sound quite well. We had the 801s hooked up to the best from Krell, Threshold, etc. and while they "technically" performed well - deep bass, detailed, good imaging - they lacked life. Frankly, they were a little boring and just didn't impress. So I think your adding the M-125 monos is well-advised. The addition of the SP14 likely takes things to a whole other level. I would imagine that the gains in imaging depth and breadth, dynamics, crystalline highs, with space and air between the notes, all against a jet-black background, are improvements that far exceed the modest price of such a fine piece of equipment. I think that preamp is about as ideal a match for your amps as you could possibly hope for - at least for anything under 10K, maybe more. Enjoy your bliss! MHF |
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Post by bluemeanies on Jul 28, 2018 14:30:47 GMT -5
MHF...maybe I found a friend who likes B&W speakers? I never heard the Matrix series however I know a couple of people from other forums loving them. Here..not so much. I mostly hear the words overpriced and to bright.  Anyway...first glad to meet you. You posts are excellent,factually information. Interesting you worked with B&W...no matter when it must have been exciting as well as rewarding. I had purchased on ADVICE from a reputable hi end Audio store that I bought the 804’s from a pair of EMOTIVA mono-blocks (XPA1’s) 500watts per. Great bang for the buck. My room as I described to several (so called professionals) is 10’ wide 25’ long with 6’4” & 7’ ceilings. When asked what I wanted from my system I was very clear...which I will describe by telling what I have with tube amplification. What I ended up with was just more power...loud confusing sounding,miss mash of music. Harsh, not detailed and very much unenjoyable. This had nothing to do with EMOTIVA. The XPA’s performed well but they were not for my music palate. I keep the XPA’s for about 4 months. An invitation from audiobill led me in a different direction in that I always was interested in tubes but could never afford the likes of McIntosh. Of course I always looked at Hines which mean $$. It only took 4 hours of listening and I decided to sell the XPA’s. What I heard at Bills house was EXACTLY what I wanted in my dedicated room. MusicL nuances like the breathe of Diana Krall, the squeaking sound of the piano pedal and finally a lifelike performance of the artist in my room. I told Bill I was going home to sell my XPA’s and I was already planning on eliminating a Fathom 112 but I do think that Bill was surprised that I acted so fast and just maybe was not sure that I was going to put what I told him in action. It did not take long and both the FATHOM & XPA’s sold. The m125’s performed well with the 804’s as did the Grace design m920 pre/amp dac. I was in bliss. Since I have the Grace (as you may know) and have the SP14 tube pre amp with recently purchased Shunguang Treasure CV181Z tubes for both the gain and buffer positions. Also I invested in the Audionote 4.1LE EXTERNAL Dac. SWEET! I sold the 804S speaker and got a deal on the 803diamonds since the the D3 series was coming out in a few weeks. Now for the real reason you contacted me 😂 I acquired the Steampunk art in San Diago whole on vacation on Old Town. They had those pieces in gold colored and dark which I liked as did my wife. Really she made the decesion. She said the gold colored mask reminded her of R2D2 and we both did not want that look. I believe the price was $30.00...not sure. It was a great shop to look around in for souvenirs. Of course I am always thinking HT or 2channnel That’s All Folks..hope I answered your thoughts. Blue |
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