|
|
Post by creimes on Dec 11, 2016 12:03:34 GMT -5
Re "Mo Watts is mo better" - Still only a lot of opinions stated as facts and no real data to backup any of the claims. If you have data then post it and also please post how that data was captured in case someone wants to verify the results. On topic - Still no answer from Keith. Maybe tomorrow when he's back in the office? Isn't that why were are here, to gather others opinions haha, constantly with the crapping on others experiences, I use my ears to hear what I prefer or like not graphs, not saying graphs are not useful but that doesn't tell me if I'm going to like or dislike a piece of equipment's sound. And here comes the backlash hahaha. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Dec 11, 2016 12:44:38 GMT -5
How is the MC700 compared to the UMC200? Worth the change, or stay with the UMC200?
|
|
|
|
Post by rbk123 on Dec 11, 2016 12:51:49 GMT -5
No one knows, they haven't shipped yet.
|
|
|
|
Post by leefdalucky on Dec 11, 2016 13:04:35 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by MusicHead on Dec 11, 2016 13:15:50 GMT -5
|
|
|
|
Post by gzubeck on Dec 11, 2016 14:01:25 GMT -5
Re "Mo Watts is mo better" - Still only a lot of opinions stated as facts and no real data to backup any of the claims. If you have data then post it and also please post how that data was captured in case someone wants to verify the results. On topic - Still no answer from Keith. Maybe tomorrow when he's back in the office? no. you need enough watts to achieve your desired results. if your driving very small 4 inch woofers/midrange then a receiver is your ticket with a subwoofer. i was at best buy in the magnolia room and saw a couple testing out the cheaper B&W speakers for $1200 for a pair with 4 inch drivers. the sound was so bad that i nearly crapped in my pants for embarrasment. I seriously think they make that stuff so that when they compare it to the next level up at $1600 its a no brainer. in the end what receivers might offer is more features for your money. but, the amplifier section and build quality is always going to be suspect in any product now sold under $1000 dollars. the bigger the woofers the larger the power you will need to sound optimal. you wont always need the power but when your material demands it you will not be left wanting. If you want to power little noise makers then a receiver will be fine. if you want the features a receiver has i would still recomend a receiver that has preouts so at least you can upgrade the amplifier power if need be. |
|
|
|
Post by dougc on Dec 11, 2016 14:14:05 GMT -5
Very good article and very true, I'll stick with my UMC200 for the time being. |
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 11, 2016 15:41:16 GMT -5
Thanks but I don't have any questions regarding amps. The question I raised is do YOU know all relevant parameters of your amp, speakers and room to make an informed decision what capabilities your amps need to have. Often people waste money on features that do make zero audible difference. |
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 11, 2016 15:44:38 GMT -5
You probably want speakers that are capable of the desired SPL in the first place. The question "which amp" is moot otherwise. Re "Mo Watts is mo better" - Still only a lot of opinions stated as facts and no real data to backup any of the claims. If you have data then post it and also please post how that data was captured in case someone wants to verify the results. On topic - Still no answer from Keith. Maybe tomorrow when he's back in the office? no. you need enough watts to achieve your desired results. if your driving very small 4 inch woofers/midrange then a receiver is your ticket with a subwoofer. i was at best buy in the magnolia room and saw a couple testing out the cheaper B&W speakers for $1200 for a pair with 4 inch drivers. the sound was so bad that i nearly crapped in my pants for embarrasment. I seriously think they make that stuff so that when they compare it to the next level up at $1600 its a no brainer. in the end what receivers might offer is more features for your money. but, the amplifier section and build quality is always going to be suspect in any product now sold under $1000 dollars. the bigger the woofers the larger the power you will need to sound optimal. you wont always need the power but when your material demands it you will not be left wanting. If you want to power little noise makers then a receiver will be fine. if you want the features a receiver has i would still recomend a receiver that has preouts so at least you can upgrade the amplifier power if need be. |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Dec 11, 2016 16:05:20 GMT -5
Re "Mo Watts is mo better" - Still only a lot of opinions stated as facts and no real data to backup any of the claims. If you have data then post it and also please post how that data was captured in case someone wants to verify the results. On topic - Still no answer from Keith. Maybe tomorrow when he's back in the office? I think you are doing some selective reading there, I posted a 5 db increase in peak SPL's from the same average SPL's that occurred with the change from an AVR to an XPA-5. That aligns very closely to wattage difference, also measured. I don't know about you but that's "data", you can chose to ignore it, that's your decision, but it's still data. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by copperpipe on Dec 11, 2016 16:34:51 GMT -5
urwiI think you must have wondered off the path and got lost or something, you're definitely in the wrong place. Many of us here HAVE noticed improvements with separates. If you don't, great, no need to upgrade from an AVR. You are welcome to your opinion and even to state it a few times, but you're not going to get anywhere trying to badger staff into answering your questions. You've been told countless time to pick up the phone, why you haven't yet is a mystery to us all.
|
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Dec 11, 2016 16:36:38 GMT -5
It's not really a mystery at all about the lack of phone call. It would end the discussion.
Right?
|
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 11, 2016 16:42:16 GMT -5
So where is your data? Where can I read about it? How was it measured? Where's the documentation? By the way, you do realize not everybody has your speakers? Re "Mo Watts is mo better" - Still only a lot of opinions stated as facts and no real data to backup any of the claims. If you have data then post it and also please post how that data was captured in case someone wants to verify the results. On topic - Still no answer from Keith. Maybe tomorrow when he's back in the office? I think you are doing some selective reading there, I posted a 5 db increase in peak SPL's from the same average SPL's that occurred with the change from an AVR to an XPA-5. That aligns very closely to wattage difference, also measured. I don't know about you but that's "data", you can chose to ignore it, that's your decision, but it's still data. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 11, 2016 16:46:34 GMT -5
I've asked my questions here on the board. They were read by people that know the answers - Dan and Keith. I've sent a PM to Keith. Isn't that enough? What's the next step? You guys telling me to fly over to Franklin and meet with them? urwiI think you must have wondered off the path and got lost or something, you're definitely in the wrong place. Many of us here HAVE noticed improvements with separates. If you don't, great, no need to upgrade from an AVR. You are welcome to your opinion and even to state it a few times, but you're not going to get anywhere trying to badger staff into answering your questions. You've been told countless time to pick up the phone, why you haven't yet is a mystery to us all. It's not really a mystery at all about the lack of phone call. It would end the discussion. Right? |
|
|
|
Post by Jim on Dec 11, 2016 16:52:26 GMT -5
Heck yes. I'm sure they'd welcome you with open arms!
They'd probably even give you your own sandbox to play in - so you can fully embrace the expression "go pound sand".
|
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 11, 2016 16:55:58 GMT -5
Good article. There's so much dishonesty in consumer audio. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,851
|
Post by LCSeminole on Dec 11, 2016 17:16:48 GMT -5
I've asked my questions here on the board. They were read by people that know the answers - Dan and Keith. I've sent a PM to Keith. Isn't that enough? What's the next step? You guys telling me to fly over to Franklin and meet with them? Whether Keith chooses to answer you in a PM is completely up to him, and I hope that he does. This still doesn't make the Lounge Forum, Emotiva's official website for tech or sales support, as it is not, as has been expressed by Dan & Cathy Laufman many times in the past. Anything official should always be directed to their FAQ Help page on the OFFICIAL Emotiva website at www.emotiva.com. Whether you call or e-mail is up to you. If you are unwilling to do either of these, then as I've stated already, waiting on the MC-700 to be officially released and in customer's hands that would be willing to answer your questions will be your last option. Below is an OFFICIAL LINK to their e-mail contacts and phone #'s page. emotiva.com/help |
|
|
|
Post by Gary Cook on Dec 11, 2016 19:11:03 GMT -5
So where is your data? Where can I read about it? How was it measured? Where's the documentation? By the way, you do realize not everybody has your speakers? I think you are doing some selective reading there, I posted a 5 db increase in peak SPL's from the same average SPL's that occurred with the change from an AVR to an XPA-5. That aligns very closely to wattage difference, also measured. I don't know about you but that's "data", you can chose to ignore it, that's your decision, but it's still data. I suspect that not may Emotiva owners, especially those in the US, would have my speakers, they are after all Designed and Made in Australia. I'm not sure why you find it so unbelievable that 275 WPC could deliver 5 db more volume than 90 WPC. That's what I measured using my system, in my room and the specifications and bench test results of the amplifiers very closely match that. it is also similar to what adding an XPA-2 did in my uncle's system, his listing area is larger than mine but his room is slight smaller. He has Paradigm Signature S8's as his FR and FL, so possibly more common speakers. Maybe you should try it for yourself, it's not that hard, simply connect one channel to a ~90 WPC power amp and another to a ~275 WPC amp set the test tone volume to say 75 db, select mono, and they play a movie with a dynamic soundtrack. Measure the peaks from the 90 WPC channel and then measure the same peaks from the 275 WPC channel. Note the SPL difference. Then do the same at say 85 db test tone and then again at 95 db. You will notice at some point the lower WPC channel runs out of capability to handle the peaks, it may even clip. Of course more efficient speakers will need higher SPL before the amp runs out of grunt. Ditto smaller room. But the undeniable fact is eventually it will run out of grunt and not be able to reproduce the SPL peaks, whilst handling the average volume (and the test tones) just fine. Cheers Gary |
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 1:42:42 GMT -5
Gary, I do NOT find it "unbelievable that 275 WPC could deliver 5 db more volume than 90 WPC". I just find it unbelievable that you and others make it sound like this will ALWAYS be the case - "mo is mo better", stated as a fact. That's simply not true and other factors are as important as having the RIGHT amount of power otherwise you're paying for Watts you don't need. My point was that manufacturers don't give you the necessary information to make an informed decision. The data Emotiva or even Monoprice provides is just a single part of the puzzle. You would also need to know distortion data and compression limits of your speakers besides required sound pressure level. This data isn't available to the customer. Not from Emotiva not from any other manufacturer. You can get such data sometimes in the pro market though.
Speakers getting destroyed by weak amps clipping is a myth. Speakers either get destroyed by overexcursion (woofers) or by burned up voice coils (tweeters). Both the result of too much power when trying to drive a speaker beyond its mechanical or electrical limits.
If there's interest in continuing this discussion I would like to ask you and others to open a new thread as this one is about the MC-700.
|
|
|
|
Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 1:51:43 GMT -5
I believe a forum is exactly the right place to make important product information available to potential buyers beyond a rudimentary spec sheet on a product page. It would also reduce workload of the support people. I mean its even the very same people answering here and via "official" support. But if me asking some simple questions about the MC-700 is so offending for some regulars I will also send my request via email to "official" support... I've asked my questions here on the board. They were read by people that know the answers - Dan and Keith. I've sent a PM to Keith. Isn't that enough? What's the next step? You guys telling me to fly over to Franklin and meet with them? Whether Keith chooses to answer you in a PM is completely up to him, and I hope that he does. This still doesn't make the Lounge Forum, Emotiva's official website for tech or sales support, as it is not, as has been expressed by Dan & Cathy Laufman many times in the past. Anything official should always be directed to their FAQ Help page on the OFFICIAL Emotiva website at www.emotiva.com. Whether you call or e-mail is up to you. If you are unwilling to do either of these, then as I've stated already, waiting on the MC-700 to be officially released and in customer's hands that would be willing to answer your questions will be your last option. Below is an OFFICIAL LINK to their e-mail contacts and phone #'s page. emotiva.com/help |
|
