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Post by GTPlus on Dec 12, 2016 10:28:56 GMT -5
Seems like a really nice processor for the cost, I will say one thing though, why is there no Zone 2, an extra zone(at least one) is a must IMO, I called in to pre purchase one since the EMP-1 I was waiting for has taken a hiatus to receive Atmos which doesn't interest me and when I was told no Zone 2 outs for my UOM 6.2 speakers on my patio that axed it for me. Chad I am on the fence right now due to no Zone 2, I do use it on my UMC-1. Not sure if there is a way a can make it work another way. I know some of the AVR's will let you use the two extra rears as second zone if you go 5.1. Was hoping for the long shot that this might be possible in the MC-700, but I don't see this in any of the documents. |
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Post by creimes on Dec 12, 2016 10:54:11 GMT -5
Seems like a really nice processor for the cost, I will say one thing though, why is there no Zone 2, an extra zone(at least one) is a must IMO, I called in to pre purchase one since the EMP-1 I was waiting for has taken a hiatus to receive Atmos which doesn't interest me and when I was told no Zone 2 outs for my UOM 6.2 speakers on my patio that axed it for me. Chad I am on the fence right now due to no Zone 2, I do use it on my UMC-1. Not sure if there is a way a can make it work another way. I know some of the AVR's will let you use the two extra rears as second zone if you go 5.1. Was hoping for the long shot that this might be possible in the MC-700, but I don't see this in any of the documents. I made a call to Emotiva and talked with Grayson and he confirmed no Zone 2 at all, I was going to preorder one but with that I couldn't so I went and found a good deal on a Marantz AV7702 which does have things like Atmos that I won't use but has zone 2 which I can also control with an app which is awesome, really really wanted the XMC-1 but $1699 for me up in Canada to my door is about $2500 so no go at this time  Chad |
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Post by gzubeck on Dec 12, 2016 11:33:22 GMT -5
You probably want speakers that are capable of the desired SPL in the first place. The question "which amp" is moot otherwise. no. you need enough watts to achieve your desired results. if your driving very small 4 inch woofers/midrange then a receiver is your ticket with a subwoofer. i was at best buy in the magnolia room and saw a couple testing out the cheaper B&W speakers for $1200 for a pair with 4 inch drivers. the sound was so bad that i nearly crapped in my pants for embarrasment. I seriously think they make that stuff so that when they compare it to the next level up at $1600 its a no brainer. in the end what receivers might offer is more features for your money. but, the amplifier section and build quality is always going to be suspect in any product now sold under $1000 dollars. the bigger the woofers the larger the power you will need to sound optimal. you wont always need the power but when your material demands it you will not be left wanting. If you want to power little noise makers then a receiver will be fine. if you want the features a receiver has i would still recomend a receiver that has preouts so at least you can upgrade the amplifier power if need be. unless your dabbling in the high performance drivers with 95-98db sensitivity with high price tags your average speakers are going to be between 86db-92db. if your worrying about blowing up your drivers its usually because your playing them well beyond their power rating. most speakers have a normal watt usage and peak usage. peak is around double the normal rating. i find that in my listening environment i become more and more uncomfortable as the volume level and distortion level goes up that i turn it down before damaging my drivers. i think youve received enough facts and information to form an opinion about what you want to buy or not buy. if you believe your right dont buy emotiva. the rest of us will enjoy our emotiva products. |
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Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 12:07:25 GMT -5
No facts were posted just opinions. Besides, you make it look like I wouldn't know the facts - why? Do the math yourself: myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.htmlAs said before, if you want to continue discussing amps please open a new thread. This one is still about the MC-700. You probably want speakers that are capable of the desired SPL in the first place. The question "which amp" is moot otherwise. unless your dabbling in the high performance drivers with 95-98db sensitivity with high price tags your average speakers are going to be between 86db-92db. if your worrying about blowing up your drivers its usually because your playing them well beyond their power rating. most speakers have a normal watt usage and peak usage. peak is around double the normal rating. i find that in my listening environment i become more and more uncomfortable as the volume level and distortion level goes up that i turn it down before damaging my drivers. i think youve received enough facts and information to form an opinion about what you want to buy or not buy. if you believe your right dont buy emotiva. the rest of us will enjoy our emotiva products. |
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Post by gzubeck on Dec 12, 2016 12:25:15 GMT -5
No facts were posted just opinions. Besides, you make it look like I wouldn't know the facts - why? Do the math yourself: myhometheater.homestead.com/splcalculator.htmlAs said before, if you want to continue discussing amps please open a new thread. This one is still about the MC-700. unless your dabbling in the high performance drivers with 95-98db sensitivity with high price tags your average speakers are going to be between 86db-92db. if your worrying about blowing up your drivers its usually because your playing them well beyond their power rating. most speakers have a normal watt usage and peak usage. peak is around double the normal rating. i find that in my listening environment i become more and more uncomfortable as the volume level and distortion level goes up that i turn it down before damaging my drivers. i think youve received enough facts and information to form an opinion about what you want to buy or not buy. if you believe your right dont buy emotiva. the rest of us will enjoy our emotiva products. Like i said before...buy a receiver with preouts or dont buy one at all because your going to be disappointed. if your speakers work great with a particular receiver then good buy it and be happy. if the emotiva preamp doesnt have all the features you want then dont buy it. im using a two channel dac because i dont want to have mediocre 7 channel audio, i want 2 channnel bliss! its like this...if your driving a honda civic you dont need a v8 engine, but if your driving a pickup truck carrying heavy loads you might want a v8. |
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Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 15:01:59 GMT -5
I've said early on I'd like to have PEQ...
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Dec 12, 2016 15:08:35 GMT -5
I've said early on I'd like to have PEQ... I believe there are AVR's with PEQ. Check Yamaha. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 12, 2016 16:38:17 GMT -5
Firmware updates.
Some of you may remember that updating the firmware on the UMC-200 could be a bit... challenging.
(Firmware updates had to be applied through a special USB input, using a slightly clunky updater program, run on a Windows computer.)
Firmware updates on the new MC-700 are done using a USB stick.
All you do is put the firmware on the stick, plug the stick into the update port, and turn the MC-700 ON.
The update process is entirely automatic... with no user intervention required.
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Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 16:49:11 GMT -5
Yes there are. The Yamaha RX-V681 ($650) and higher have 7 bands per channel and 4 for the sub. I've said early on I'd like to have PEQ... I believe there are AVR's with PEQ. Check Yamaha. |
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Post by urwi on Dec 12, 2016 16:59:59 GMT -5
Jan 2017 update:
- No parametric EQ for back surrounds 11 parametric EQs per Dan Laufman; THIS WILL BE ADDED - PROBABLY IN THE NEXT FIRMWARE UPDATE (NOT THERE NOW)–Keith
- Only 3 parametric EQs for the subwoofer channel vs. 11 for all other channels (except back surrounds) 11 parametric EQs per Dan Laufman; THIS WILL BE ADDED - PROBABLY IN THE NEXT FIRMWARE UPDATE (NOT THERE NOW)–Keith
- Distance settings allow only for 0.3ft (10cm) steps Confirmed by Keith
- No upload of EQ settings, EQ has to be set with remote (takes about 10 minutes per speaker) Confirmed by Keith
- After startup volume ramps up to last used setting which can create problems with universal remote controls VOLUME RAMP-UP HAS BEEN ELIMINATED–Keith
- Doesn't support sample rate of 176.4kHz Confirmed by Keith
- Doesn't support PLII or Neo:6 at sample rates higher than 96kHz Confirmed by Keith
- Bass management filters create a 180° phase shift when a 12dB filter slope is selected Confirmed by Keith
- Manual test tones are post EQ (should be pre EQ) Confirmed by Keith
- Headphone output is post bass management, delay, gains and EQ HEADPHONE OUTPUT IS SUMMED FROM THE MAIN OUTPUTS; HOWEVER - WHEN YOU PLUG IN HEADPHONES THE BASS MANAGEMENT, DELAYS, AND EQ SHOULD BE SWITCHED OFF AT THE DSP–Keith
- "Direct" mode with x.0 channel digital input signal is post bass management and delay -> all channels are high pass filtered, low frequencies are lost UNCONFIRMED
- "Direct" mode with x.1 digital input signal is post bass management and delay -> all processing active except EQ UNCONFIRMED
- "All Stereo" with 2 channel digital or analog input signal is post bass management, delay and EQ -> processed L/R is sent to surrounds UNCONFIRMED
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Post by Jim on Dec 12, 2016 17:38:28 GMT -5
So are you going to buy it when it comes out??
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Dec 12, 2016 18:29:22 GMT -5
With the same speaker, in the same spot, in the same room, doubling the power will give you 3 dB more output, so 5 dB for three times the power sounds about right. (That's assuming that nothing clips, and nothing compresses or limits for any reason.) Your second paragraph is both right and wrong at the same time. Yes, tweeters usually get destroyed by overheated voice coils. HOWEVER, when you drive an amp into heavy clipping, because square waves have a very large proportion of higher-order harmonics, an abnormally high percentage of the amplifier's total power output ends up being sent to the tweeters, which makes it more likely that you will burn them out. So, if you have a powerful amplifier, and you simply turn it up too loud, you'll probably over-drive or overheat the woofers. And, if you have a somewhat smaller amp, and you drive it into excessive clipping in an attempt to make it player louder than it should, there's a very good chance that the excessive clipping will send too much power to your tweeters and cause them to overheat, and eventually burn them out. However, as urwi noticed.... this has a lot to do with speakers and nothing at all to do with the MC-700  Gary, I do NOT find it "unbelievable that 275 WPC could deliver 5 db more volume than 90 WPC". I just find it unbelievable that you and others make it sound like this will ALWAYS be the case - "mo is mo better", stated as a fact. That's simply not true and other factors are as important as having the RIGHT amount of power otherwise you're paying for Watts you don't need. My point was that manufacturers don't give you the necessary information to make an informed decision. The data Emotiva or even Monoprice provides is just a single part of the puzzle. You would also need to know distortion data and compression limits of your speakers besides required sound pressure level. This data isn't available to the customer. Not from Emotiva not from any other manufacturer. You can get such data sometimes in the pro market though. Speakers getting destroyed by weak amps clipping is a myth. Speakers either get destroyed by overexcursion (woofers) or by burned up voice coils (tweeters). Both the result of too much power when trying to drive a speaker beyond its mechanical or electrical limits. If there's interest in continuing this discussion I would like to ask you and others to open a new thread as this one is about the MC-700. |
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Post by urwi on Dec 13, 2016 3:11:31 GMT -5
I will buy it once I have satisfying answers to all my questions. Right now even Emotiva doesn't know how the device will actually work as nobody has seen the final version and I don't want to be a paying beta tester - unless they send me a unit for free So are you going to buy it when it comes out?? |
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Post by Jim on Dec 13, 2016 6:07:15 GMT -5
Somehow I doubt you'll ever be satisfied with the answers....
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 13, 2016 10:02:29 GMT -5
I will buy it once I have satisfying answers to all my questions. Right now even Emotiva doesn't know how the device will actually work as nobody has seen the final version and I don't want to be a paying beta tester - unless they send me a unit for free Now I get it! You're Nancy Pelosi, aren't you? |
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 13, 2016 11:40:28 GMT -5
urwi Bass management filters create a 180° phase shift when a 12dB filter slope is selected How is this a problem? You do realize that what is done in the digital realm has the same artifacts as if it was done in the analog realm. That is to say for every 6db of crossover slope, you get a 90 degree phase shift. So a 12db slope will always give you 180 degree phase shift, whether it is done in the digital or analog realm. BTW, this is true of all DSPs.  Just thought I would clarify that for you. Lonnie |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 13, 2016 12:04:13 GMT -5
So why aren't these systems totally unstable?
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 13, 2016 12:20:13 GMT -5
So why aren't these systems totally unstable? Sorry, I'm not sure what you question is. Can you give me a little more info here? Thanks, Lonnie |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 13, 2016 12:46:12 GMT -5
I'm coming from a control systems background. In feedback system theory, a system with 180 degrees of phase shift or more before crossover is inherently unstable but is correctable with judiciously applied phase lead elements. But I guess these filters do not involve feedback and are just open loop networks. Still I am a little confused over the necessity of such severe slopes.
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Lonnie
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Post by Lonnie on Dec 13, 2016 13:51:41 GMT -5
In the along realm there is negative feedback that is used to control the gain of the circuit. but in the digital side of the equation, it is open loop.
The reason for 12 to 48db per octave slopes is simply to limit the out of band information from arriving at the speaker with an output level of significant size to be audible.
Hope this helps.
Lonnie
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