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Post by teaman on Sept 23, 2016 10:35:40 GMT -5
No knob needed - really. This is pure nostalgia imho. I think I prefer a volume control knob as well. Many times I have turned on for late night listening and nearly sh*t myself when I see my volume setting on the XDA-2 is at 35 or something. I go into panic mode trying to race the delay for my disc to start churning out music with my remote control and a death grip trying to get the volume down as quickly as possible. So far only once I have not caught it in time and it woke everyone up....with my wife giving me a wonderful wtf look at about 1 am......oopsie! |
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 23, 2016 10:36:31 GMT -5
Is this our problem?  Actually i care. I wanna see emotiva having tons of cash flow so they can start putting back the reference line that i'm interested in  I wonder what is the competition for this xmc-1L, any brands or models? |
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Post by teaman on Sept 23, 2016 10:40:32 GMT -5
Quick notes: maseline98, We have a mock up with the dial as well. The reason why we have gone with the buttons in this concept is: 1. This is based heavily off the existing Emersa boards so the existing code and front panel is built for buttons instead of a rotary knob 2. We have to redo the encoder for the knob which adds more time and cost 3. The knob also adds an extra illumination ring which will raise cost as well. With the same buttons on the right side, we are using the existing part we are using on the quadrant on the left which will help keep cost low. 4. The volume is controlled usually through a remote so it makes the need of the dial less important since form follows function. Also, no need for a mic input on the front of the unit since Dirac connects to your computer and the files are downloaded to your pre/pro via the network. wrinklemash This would have to be 4 HDMI in 2 HDMI out since that is what the Emersa uses and is already programmed and ready to go...hence keeping the cost down. We think that $999 is the key price point for this product to be successful. I remember my Technics receivers back in the day used to use a lighted volume dial with a red illuminated dot that showed you where on the dial the volume was set. Although the remote also had a volume control it allowed me to know where it was by a quick glance to the receiver. Just an idea. |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 23, 2016 10:51:10 GMT -5
Quick notes: maseline98 , We have a mock up with the dial as well. The reason why we have gone with the buttons in this concept is: 1. This is based heavily off the existing Emersa boards so the existing code and front panel is built for buttons instead of a rotary knob 2. We have to redo the encoder for the knob which adds more time and cost 3. The knob also adds an extra illumination ring which will raise cost as well. With the same buttons on the right side, we are using the existing part we are using on the quadrant on the left which will help keep cost low. 4. The volume is controlled usually through a remote so it makes the need of the dial less important since form follows function. Also, no need for a mic input on the front of the unit since Dirac connects to your computer and the files are downloaded to your pre/pro via the network. wrinklemash This would have to be 4 HDMI in 2 HDMI out since that is what the Emersa uses and is already programmed and ready to go...hence keeping the cost down. We think that $999 is the key price point for this product to be successful. Existing board, keeps price cost down! knob? Price & cost goes up! And garbulky ,it's rather old fashioned, I thought you were much more open minded! Forward thinking!  Working off of an existing system, as Emotiva has become very good at, they will be able to (maybe) come in at a lesser price point or have a discount price for early adopters. Yes! I love a great value! Thats why Im/we are here,,,,,,,,,,,,,right?  |
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Post by Hair Nick on Sept 23, 2016 11:09:12 GMT -5
Have to say this is where we are seeing the fruits of our labor on the XMC-1. All those years and all that money that went into that development has filtered down into creating products like the XMC-1L, Emersa products, and the foundation for the RMC-1.
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Post by repeetavx on Sept 23, 2016 11:11:49 GMT -5
Will this XMC-1L hurt the XMC-1 sales? Under a thousand dollars for the XMC-1L vs. soon to be $2999.00 for the full XMC-1. Somehow I don't see them competing against each other. Only equal sound quality (hopefully). |
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Post by copperpipe on Sept 23, 2016 11:27:58 GMT -5
I'm with Garbulky here. A volume knob is ten times nicer than silly cheap buttons. I get the need to keep costs down, but a knob adds perceived value to a device like this, to me anyway, and apparently there are enough of us out there.
The remote argument is baseless. Why have any buttons on the front at all then? Just because YOU might not have touched the knob, others use them all the time. A knob is quick and accurate and has good physical feedback. A button feels cheap and finicky. In fact, I bought a volume knob precisely for this reason (my tc electronics) to control volume playback. I could have used my mouse (remote), but the knob is worth it - 10 times what I paid for it.
Believe it or not, the lack of knob was one deciding factor in passing over the recent UMC-200.
Some of us, really like our knobs (yeah, that sounds funny but I'm being serious); you can pry it out of my cold dead fingers.
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Post by brubacca on Sept 23, 2016 11:28:41 GMT -5
Have to say this is where we are seeing the fruits of our labor on the XMC-1. All those years and all that money that went into that development has filtered down into creating products like the XMC-1L, Emersa products, and the foundation for the RMC-1. I would love the opportunity to get the sonic performance (or close) of the XMC-1 at ~$1k. For me, $2k-$3k is too much for something that will be obsolete in 5 years and a boat anchor in 8. |
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 23, 2016 11:34:48 GMT -5
If someone wants more they could use a splitter or step up to the XMC-1. Geez, an HDMI splitter is A LOT cheaper than the $1500-$2,000 extra to "step up" to an XMC-1.  As I said in my first critique, volume buttons are not a killer, but I HATE volume buttons on the unit. Buttons belong on the remote control. Yet, to be perfectly honest, it actually looks better with the buttons. And since it appears the speed of development will be important critical for this unit, buttons alone would not keep me from purchasing the unit. I still think that without HDMI 2.0a and HDCP 2.2 on all inputs/outputs and the lack of Atmos & DTS:X, the market for this unit will be limited. If the HDMI board can be upgraded, and Dan did say in the OP: " However, the HDMI subsystem is modular and will evolve along side the XMC-1 and other AVP solutions we are designing.", and that may mitigate the lack of SOTA connections to a degree. The unit will appeal to some who prioritize SQ. However and IMO, SQ is not where the uninitiated or even the semi-initiated will derive value from a unit in this price range. Many are going to do a feature comparison with other "big name units", including receivers with pre-outs, create a check list, and say, "Nope! This Emotiva thing is missing the basics". Will it sell? IMO - Yes it will, to the informed, reasonable and initiated. Will it sell as much as it could with the features above? IMO - Absolutely not. This said, I assume this unit will be built to order, or very close to it, so a limited market may not be as detrimental. However, I am beginning to think that this is more of a stop gap measure and down the road, the XMC-1 and the proposed XMC-1L (if built) will both need to be revised. The XMC-1 and its platform are great, but it is inevitable things will need to change or be improved at some point. Maybe this gets Emotiva to that place. Then again, there might be something else out there in development that has not been announced yet. Dan did mention there are " other AVP solutions we are designing" in the OP. I do like the spirit and intent of the unit though. The proposed does have the potential to be a very nice processor and it does address the considerable gap between the BasX and X-Series. (Assuming the looks of Emersa series does make the line to be a different group of animals). It is based on great tech and should be well executed and represent what I define as "affordable high-end". Peace out everyone |
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Post by jmilton on Sept 23, 2016 11:52:21 GMT -5
When was the last time Onkyo asked you what you wanted?
Oh yeah. NEVER.
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Post by brutiarti on Sept 23, 2016 11:57:31 GMT -5
Reading more opinions here i think that emotiva will gain more putting out a well priced receiver than another pre/pro that competes with the emersa. IMO
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Post by siggie on Sept 23, 2016 12:12:53 GMT -5
As a casual hobbyist, the XMC-1 costs more than I would spend on a processor. I would spend $1,000 though, when the need arises.
siggie
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Post by novisnick on Sept 23, 2016 12:38:37 GMT -5
As a casual hobbyist, the XMC-1 costs more than I would spend on a processor. I would spend $1,000 though, when the need arises. siggie Seems that its almost time for Emo to set off the remote detonation on some of the older gear!!   |
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Post by maseline98 on Sept 23, 2016 13:06:59 GMT -5
Quick notes: maseline98, We have a mock up with the dial as well. The reason why we have gone with the buttons in this concept is: 1. This is based heavily off the existing Emersa boards so the existing code and front panel is built for buttons instead of a rotary knob 2. We have to redo the encoder for the knob which adds more time and cost 3. The knob also adds an extra illumination ring which will raise cost as well. With the same buttons on the right side, we are using the existing part we are using on the quadrant on the left which will help keep cost low. 4. The volume is controlled usually through a remote so it makes the need of the dial less important since form follows function. Also, no need for a mic input on the front of the unit since Dirac connects to your computer and the files are downloaded to your pre/pro via the network. wrinklemash This would have to be 4 HDMI in 2 HDMI out since that is what the Emersa uses and is already programmed and ready to go...hence keeping the cost down. We think that $999 is the key price point for this product to be successful. No need to explain. I had 5 minutes before my first meeting and was just messing around. The volume control doesn't bother me either way. I think it does look nicer with it, but who gets up to manually turn up the volume...Im way too lazy for that...lol |
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2016 13:34:07 GMT -5
Quick notes: maseline98, We have a mock up with the dial as well. The reason why we have gone with the buttons in this concept is: 1. This is based heavily off the existing Emersa boards so the existing code and front panel is built for buttons instead of a rotary knob 2. We have to redo the encoder for the knob which adds more time and cost 3. The knob also adds an extra illumination ring which will raise cost as well. With the same buttons on the right side, we are using the existing part we are using on the quadrant on the left which will help keep cost low. 4. The volume is controlled usually through a remote so it makes the need of the dial less important since form follows function. Also, no need for a mic input on the front of the unit since Dirac connects to your computer and the files are downloaded to your pre/pro via the network. wrinklemash This would have to be 4 HDMI in 2 HDMI out since that is what the Emersa uses and is already programmed and ready to go...hence keeping the cost down. We think that $999 is the key price point for this product to be successful. No need to explain. I had 5 minutes before my first meeting and was just messing around. The volume control doesn't bother me either way. I think it does look nicer with it, but who gets up to manually turn up the volume...Im way too lazy for that...lol Regarding the fine-tuning of a volume knob versus volume control: A knob control is not infinitely variable, is it? Even though the knob itself is, the actual changes to the volume are stepped, I believe. That you can turn the knob in an "analog" way is just an illusion that your brain makes you think the adjustment is finer than with a remote. A remote can furnish 1/2 decibel increments same as the knob can, although a knob is much faster. I think it looks better with a knob and appreciate the speedier response versus a remote control using buttons, but in terms of fine adjustment I don't think there is any difference. Hey why not put a volume knob on the remote control??? It would be like those old VCR remote knobs that varied the playback speed, only this would control the volume. Have a toggle switch to go between volume and changing stations on the tuner. |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 23, 2016 13:57:53 GMT -5
No need to explain. I had 5 minutes before my first meeting and was just messing around. The volume control doesn't bother me either way. I think it does look nicer with it, but who gets up to manually turn up the volume...Im way too lazy for that...lol Regarding the fine-tuning of a volume knob versus volume control: A knob control is not infinitely variable, is it? Even though the knob itself is, the actual changes to the volume are stepped, I believe. That you can turn the knob in an "analog" way is just an illusion that your brain makes you think the adjustment is finer than with a remote. A remote can furnish 1/2 decibel increments same as the knob can, although a knob is much faster. I think it looks better with a knob and appreciate the speedier response versus a remote control using buttons, but in terms of fine adjustment I don't think there is any difference. Hey why not put a volume knob on the remote control??? It would be like those old VCR remote knobs that varied the playback speed, only this would control the volume. Have a toggle switch to go between volume and changing stations on the tuner. Yamaha has it all figured out for those that wish for a knob bs buttons, notice the difference inthese two pictures. The one on the right IPAD remote has a knob! The other has buttons.   |
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Post by Hair Nick on Sept 23, 2016 14:00:54 GMT -5
^ I do like that idea.
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Post by brubacca on Sept 23, 2016 14:16:19 GMT -5
Honestly I prefer the knob. Sometimes our preferences are not necessarily for us specifically, but for our families. In my case my family (Wife and young kids) tolerate this little hobby. For her and them a knob would work better because that is what they are used to. Change can happen, but then I have to hear about it.
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 23, 2016 14:45:27 GMT -5
Thanks for doing this customer research, Dan!
I am expecting that my next major processor upgrade will fall in line with 4K TVs, and I have a particular concern about the quality of the audio - notably the center channel clarity. I can't tell from any of your projected specs whether the audio section of this projected unit will have the same clarity as the full XMC-1. I waffle on the Atmos/DTS-X front as I don't see us ever getting beyond 5.1, so probably not an issue.
So, will the XLR balanced outs give me more clarity? (another person wondered if they actually were fully balanced) Would I be getting the best parts of the XMC audio internals for clarity?
This unit has kind of a minimum number of inputs which might be fine, but Toslink seems to have grown as the digital link of choice. Connecting TV to processor (for TV's smart apps audio) uses it up immediately.
Regarding 4K, the unit must handle HDR (at least HDR-10). I seem to recall that was HDMI 2.0a ?? If this doesn't handle HDR-10, then that is an absolute NOGO for me. I've been waiting patiently on the 4K front, on prices and models, HDR, and it looks like 2017 is going to be my year. (Probably OPPO first ;-))
I like having those PEQ's with option for Full Dirac. I don't want to have to upgrade the HDMI board, unless we have a major unforseen HDMI change from now. This does not include HDR-10, I want that in my next processor immediately.
Thank you for including the AM/FM tuner.
So I guess this unit is intended to give more upgradability than the EMP-1, in the direction of the XMC-1, so customers who want more than the EMP-1, but don't want to spend the considerably more bucks on the XMC-1, might be satisfied. I emphasize clarity/quality of audio again.
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Post by creimes on Sept 23, 2016 14:55:43 GMT -5
Quick notes: maseline98, We have a mock up with the dial as well. The reason why we have gone with the buttons in this concept is: 1. This is based heavily off the existing Emersa boards so the existing code and front panel is built for buttons instead of a rotary knob 2. We have to redo the encoder for the knob which adds more time and cost 3. The knob also adds an extra illumination ring which will raise cost as well. With the same buttons on the right side, we are using the existing part we are using on the quadrant on the left which will help keep cost low. 4. The volume is controlled usually through a remote so it makes the need of the dial less important since form follows function. Also, no need for a mic input on the front of the unit since Dirac connects to your computer and the files are downloaded to your pre/pro via the network. wrinklemash This would have to be 4 HDMI in 2 HDMI out since that is what the Emersa uses and is already programmed and ready to go...hence keeping the cost down. We think that $999 is the key price point for this product to be successful. There's one easy fix to this issue, have a volume knob on every pre/pro and preamp, simple and done and buttons suck even if you end up not using the front panel that much I as well hate volume buttons, heck while your at it I want a volume knob on the remote as well  |
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