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Post by Axis on Sept 23, 2016 23:10:21 GMT -5
A quick addendum re my HDR-10 requirement. Yes, it has been said (by Emo folks) that you can connect your source component(s) directly to your 4K TV with HDR, but then you have several problems - (1) you can't get the Emo menu on the TV - lots of fun doing initial (or other) setup, (2) If your source component only has one HDMI out, you have to use either the TV's toslink out (too often stereo only) to get audio back to the processor, or some other audio out from the source component, which may not support the full audio spectrum. Bad Bad Bad. Going from source component to TV instead of the processor can only be a stop-gap, short-term, and not too palatable. I was just looking over the official planned board changes for the XMC-1. Neither mention anything about HDR (HDMI 2.0a). "Everybody" who reviews HDR sets says that the big change from HD 1080P is really not the 4K aspect, but the HDR and wider color gamut that is being designed with it. I hope the XMC-1 board changes can be further clarified as to HDMI 2.0a, specifically regarding HDR. The two changes I see give you (1) Full 4K native resolution, (2) Atmos/DTSX. HDR is "paramount" - is it there? I apologize if this has been mentioned already. This is a post by KeithL from a few weeks ago which answers your question. Full clarification..... The "current" HDMI update board, which will be available as an upgrade in a few weeks, and which will be included in all new units shipping from now on, has one input and one output which support HDMI 2.0 and HDCP 2.2. This fulfills all the requirements for 4k, including the copy protection, WHICH MEANS THAT THIS BOARD WILL PASS ALL "STANDARD 4k SOURCES" (it will pass the signal from 4k satellite and cable boxes, and from 4k disc players). This board is at the top of the unit, and requires you to remove and replace quite a few screws, and several cables - but doesn't require any soldering. While we PREFER to do the installation here, we will probably allow people to do it themselves if they really want to. This board will NOT support HDR10 (which is part of HDMI 2.0a), and probably won't work with the 4k version of Dolby Vision HDR. There will be ANOTHER HDMI board upgrade around year end 2016 that will upgrade multiple inputs and outputs (probably all of them) to HDMI 2.0a. This future board will support HDMI 2.0a (and, of course, HDCP 2.2), and WILL support HDR10 (HDR10 is part of HDMI 2.0a) and Dolby Vision at 4k. (It may also support HDMI 2.0b - but I'm not prepared to even discuss that yet  .) "ANOTHER HDMI board upgrade around year end 2016" I noticed this right when Keith posted it. I just may drop the coin on the XMC-1 with this board. I wanted the Emersa but if this comes out first it may be end game for me. |
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 23, 2016 23:13:12 GMT -5
Ok... So the latter HDMI board upgrade for the XMC-1 will cover the HDR-10 and even DolbyVision. Great. So, hopefully the potential XMC-1L product, which probably couldn't be available any sooner than that board, would also have the same tech built-in, given the parallel development path. Perfect (if so)!! Thanks! May have a winner here for me then. |
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Post by wrinklemash on Sept 23, 2016 23:18:11 GMT -5
No, volume buttons go on remote (they belong there), volume knob goes on the unit (I HATE volume buttons on the unit) .
Still, this is FREAKIN' FUNNY!!! Good job! |
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Post by mickseymour on Sept 24, 2016 2:02:22 GMT -5
No knob for me unless it travels from 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock like the good old days. Having to turn, turn, turn to go up or down a few db is painful. Easier to lean on a button (remote or front panel).
The only use my XMC-1 knob gets is as a big mute button.
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Post by bolle on Sept 24, 2016 3:48:01 GMT -5
On a second read - why only 1 HDCP 2.2 input? Imho this is too little for a product coming to market in late 2016 or early 2017. Even the entry level receivers now have a full set of HDCP compliant HDMI inputs. A $1K processor shouldn´t be inferior in this case.
Personally I would rather spend $100 more than to have to upgrade pretty early, especially as being located overseas.
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Post by yves on Sept 24, 2016 4:19:11 GMT -5
No, volume buttons go on remote (they belong there), This is why it's also titled Special Limited Freak Edition.  If it were me, I'd include media playback control buttons on the remote as well so that they can be used to control the media player software that is used for playback of media files regardless of whether the playback is occurring via the USB DAC input or S/PDIF or HDMI or DLNA or even via a separate outboard DAC unit. The Fiio E18 Kunlun portable DAP has these buttons, they [these buttons] are sending the media control commands to the computer/tablet/smartphone via the USB connection, which is a very nice and very unique feature IMO. Albeit the Fiio device doesn't come with a remote so IMO it would be even nicer, even much more unique and exclusive to see this type of buttons implemented on the XMC-1L remote. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 24, 2016 4:21:58 GMT -5
Interestingly enough; it appears most people either "don't care", or "strongly prefer knob". Haven't yet heard somebody say "gimme the buttons please"  Give me the buttons, a knob is a useless waste of space and just adds cost for something that I don't use. Plus it involves additional engineering resources that a scarce enough already, I don't want the XMC-1L delayed because some people want something that most of us will hardly ever use. Enough? I can go harder if you want Absolutely agree. Cheers Gary |
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Post by bolle on Sept 24, 2016 5:07:12 GMT -5
Just sell a magnetically attachable knob for those who need one. This is battery powered and includes 2 small motors. If you turn it right, the upper motor pushes on the volume up button. If you turn it left, the lower motor pushes on the volume down button. Problem solved.  |
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Post by brubacca on Sept 24, 2016 6:02:06 GMT -5
One last post from me on this one-
-knob vs buttons (front panel) - I'd prefer knob if you were designing from scratch, but at this point I wouldn't add cost to what looks to be a great product. Personally I'd buy it as is.
-HDMI (4 vs more and standard) - again here my preference of have more would not deter me from buying this unit as is. I think I could make it work.
So since almost all the no's were people who claimed they already owned the full blown xmc-1, when is the release date of the xmc-1L?
Is this my Christmas Present to myself?
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Post by rbk123 on Sept 24, 2016 7:41:15 GMT -5
>Xmas present
Sure. After all, other processors they have announced like the emp-1 or the basx 700 have only taken them 3 months to bring to market.
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Post by adaboy on Sept 24, 2016 10:11:12 GMT -5
This just needed another posting! I'd pay a premium for this! Great job man. 👏 |
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Post by bolle on Sept 24, 2016 12:05:37 GMT -5
This isn´t so unrealistic, anybody remember the old pioneer remotes? They had a wheel included until the 2000s... One example (the rest looks chaotic though):  |
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Post by adaboy on Sept 24, 2016 12:10:19 GMT -5
This isn´t so unrealistic, anybody remember the old pioneer remotes? They had a wheel included until the 2000s... One example (the rest looks chaotic though): Yep, my dad had that style on his laser disk player. |
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Post by novisnick on Sept 24, 2016 12:26:33 GMT -5
This isn´t so unrealistic, anybody remember the old pioneer remotes? They had a wheel included until the 2000s... One example (the rest looks chaotic though): Yep, my dad had that style on his laser disk player. Mine came with my Super Beta Max player! I would record football games and have my own slow motion replay!! Settled many a bet. Live broadcasts hadn't advanced to that stage of coverage at the time. |
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Post by cwt on Sept 24, 2016 12:54:12 GMT -5
On a second read - why only 1 HDCP 2.2 input? Imho this is too little for a product coming to market in late 2016 or early 2017. Even the entry level receivers now have a full set of HDCP compliant HDMI inputs. A $1K processor shouldn´t be inferior in this case. Personally I would rather spend $100 more than to have to upgrade pretty early, especially as being located overseas. Thats true but maybe look at it this way ; those avr's will be outmoded when hdmi2.1 is introduced for hdr10 variable metadata throughput [ rather than the static metadata we have presently ] . Hopefully it will be a simple pcb replacement like the xmc1's I think it would help immeasureably to say if this pre makes good business sense if we knew for sure whether the emp1 has similar hdmi modularity ; otherwise we know that the emp1 is very close to the xmc1 standard as lonnie said and dirac isnt an add on there ..  On the topic of the hour and considering this price point ; on the subject of a volume knob [ and expecting a menu adjustment for max volume to protect the speakers when you sit on the remote ] its nice to see this pre pro is on the same level as a Meridian 800 series  |
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Post by Percussionista on Sept 24, 2016 13:41:02 GMT -5
Without meaning to "argue" about why some features should or shouldn't be important, since that's a personal issue, here's my thoughts on a few mentioned:
1. Volume buttons vs. knob. If I could have either I'd take the knob, but realistically, I don't care. I always use the remote - because after all I am sitting remotely from the screen and electronics. If the remote suddenly failed I could run to the box and use whatever's there. I normally don't even use the original remote, but have programmed it's functions into another multi-use programmable.
2. Atmos/DTSX. Like 90% (something like that) of all home theater set-ups, we have 5.1 systems and plan on staying there, so neither of these object formats yield much interest to me in the home; we just don't have the room configuration to handle it (and/or are unwilling to hang lots of ceiling speakers, etc.). Those few lucky enough to have a nice dedicated theater room are in much better shape for this. As long as the object formats always fall back to high-end predecessor audio I'm happy. If they (Dolby et. al.) start playing games like reverting to some crappy older audio instead, to try and force people to adopt Atmost/DTSX, then I guess I'll have to bite the bullet. Yes, I have read there is some benefit even in a 5.1 system, where the object-audio can be steered better to one's existing configuration, rather than a more static 5.1 configuration, but, really, when the airplane flies from back to front over my head in the movie, it sounds like an airplane flying from back to front, how much more will it add ;-)
So, what I want for a new prepro is the quality that it can deliver - audio and video - supporting new features that make a difference (HDR). I don't care if it's old Emo style, or new, or newer. I've got mixed components anyway (Oppo...) so it just doesn't matter.
The XMC-1 may be an audio beast (in the good sense) but it's really priced out there (ok, not compared to the "crazies" ;-)) but for us ordinary high-end wannabies, if it's possible to distill the up-to-date audio/video essence into an otherwise lesser enabled processor for much less coin then you betcha. I think someone else correctly noted that this would definitely sell to the thinking audiophile rather than the feature-counters.
The most expensive single component I ever purchased was in fact a surround-processor, same price as the XMC-1 now. I still have it in use at my PC (just for audio) when I want 5.1 rather than stereo. That unit (EAD Theatermaster), whose company is long long gone, was the least expensive of three configurations (sounding like deja vu now ;-)). But, its video was laser-disc era - best video processing is S-Video!! Things change. I don't want to spend this kind of coin over and over again.
Ooh, an epiphany - maybe the pre-pro should come as a two separate units, one doing audio only, the other doing video only (well, let's say the video unit is the first in the chain, so it would pass through the digital audio to the other unit). I bet I could keep the audio unit for a long time, and change the video unit more often. Well, we are all about separates aren't we? ;-) Even legacy stuff would work fine since the audio and video were separate there in the first place.
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 24, 2016 17:26:14 GMT -5
Without meaning to "argue" about why some features should or shouldn't be important, since that's a personal issue, here's my thoughts on a few mentioned: 1. Volume buttons vs. knob. If I could have either I'd take the knob, but realistically, I don't care. I always use the remote - because after all I am sitting remotely from the screen and electronics. If the remote suddenly failed I could run to the box and use whatever's there. I normally don't even use the original remote, but have programmed it's functions into another multi-use programmable. Couldn't agree more, well said. Up until I helped set up and then listened to a friends 5.1.2 system I had the same view, room too small, not enough space for 4 over head speakers, difficult ceiling (mine is cathedral), no real sound effects benefit etc. But after that experience I could actually see a 5.1.2 system in my place, and the sound benefit would be worth it. Despite numerous auditions I never found 7.1 compelling let alone 9.1, so 7.1.4 seemed unlikely to have any more appeal plus it simply wouldn't fit in the available space. But 5.1.2 would be ever so easy, hence not dismissed. I am also with you on the cost versus the effective life of processors/AVR's they simply don't have long enough lives to justify me spending more than $A2,000 (in OZ an XMC-1 costs $A4,000). Cheers Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Sept 24, 2016 17:47:41 GMT -5
This is a great solution for my needs but I was hoping to buy a replacement processor before the end of the year and I'm sure this would not be available at that point to say the least. I'm living in hope, since it uses a lot of existing components, firmware and hardware as well as production processes, it may not have a long a gestation period. Most certainly wouldn't require much engineering, which is why I suspect the project was floated. Not as a long term project but as something that could be quickly ramped up. Cheers Gary |
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Post by tbro49 on Sept 24, 2016 22:23:37 GMT -5
I would buy it. The XMC-1 is more than I need and this gives me what my UMC-1 lacks. Go for it!
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Post by scubadiver on Sept 25, 2016 21:18:34 GMT -5
if this was a choice when I bought my XMC-1, I would have bought this instead. No doubt.
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