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Post by hifiaudio2 on Oct 6, 2016 14:13:19 GMT -5
Regarding the Martin Logan thing.... That is common in the industry... manufacturers scratch each others' back by "suggesting" the best possible (meaning the most expensive you will buy) accessories up and down the chain.
Buy the expensive interconnects, power cords, speaker cable, cable risers, etc if you want. But just keep in mind the only things they truly "do" better than stock is a) give you a mental placebo "high" of getting "better" sound and b) usually look prettier. Some would say those things are worth it to them. No problem there... just don't go spending the money expecting an objective difference. I have yet to EVER read about a blind test where someone could pick out a system playing with the "upgrade" accessories over the one with all stock.
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 6, 2016 14:56:48 GMT -5
You also have to remember that your expensive power cable is plugged into a surge protector, that is plugged into a $1.29 plastic outlet, that is wired with $.16/ft 12/2 romex. So why would you buy expensive power cables again? Well you could have one of these and hook it up to the power cable. www.psaudio.com/perfectwave-p5-power-plant/I embarrassed to admit I own one of those.  However, where I live the power supplied usually varies between 210-222V instead of the supposed 230V and the P5 keep it at a steady 230 V. It is also supposed to be a proper sinus vawe, remove DC and works as a remote and trigger controlled surge protector, blablabla. On top of that, I imagine it sounds better with it.  |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 6, 2016 15:09:04 GMT -5
I embarrassed to admit I own one of those. However, where I live the power supplied usually varies between 210-222V instead of the supposed 230V and the P5 keep it at a steady 230 V. It is also supposed to be a proper sinus vawe, remove DC and works as a remote and trigger controlled surge protector, blablabla. On top of that, I imagine it sounds better with it. Hehehe. Oh I wasn't calling it snake oil or anything. I was just saying a power regenerator negates the what about all the miles of cheap wires the electricity goes through and the cheap connector because it regenerates the power to a supposedly a higher quality. |
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Post by qdtjni on Oct 6, 2016 16:07:08 GMT -5
I embarrassed to admit I own one of those. However, where I live the power supplied usually varies between 210-222V instead of the supposed 230V and the P5 keep it at a steady 230 V. It is also supposed to be a proper sinus vawe, remove DC and works as a remote and trigger controlled surge protector, blablabla. On top of that, I imagine it sounds better with it. Hehehe. Oh I wasn't calling it snake oil or anything. I was just saying a power regenerator negates the what about all the miles of cheap wires the electricity goes through and the cheap connector because it regenerates the power to a supposedly a higher quality. At least it is doing something actively for good or bad, which makes it very different to those extremely expensive passive power cables. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 6, 2016 19:19:25 GMT -5
Hehehe. Oh I wasn't calling it snake oil or anything. I was just saying a power regenerator negates the what about all the miles of cheap wires the electricity goes through and the cheap connector because it regenerates the power to a supposedly a higher quality. At least it is doing something actively for good or bad, which makes it very different to those extremely expensive passive power cables. I'm still out on the expensive cables of any kind. I won't discount it because there are a lot of people that feel that it does make a difference, but so far I haven't heard it and there's little evidence to suggest it would make a worthwhile difference. But my experience is little, so I am keeping an open mind. |
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Post by westom on Oct 7, 2016 8:34:34 GMT -5
I'm still out on the expensive cables of any kind. I won't discount it because there are a lot of people that feel that it does make a difference, but so far I haven't heard it and there's little evidence to suggest it would make a worthwhile difference.
If the recommendation has credibility, then it comes with numbers. No numbers is the first indication of junk science reasoning. That power regenerator is a classic example. Why are spec numbers not readily available for each model? Because they are not marketing to anyone with basic electrical knowledge. Their market is the technically naive - who routinely ignore specification numbers.
Same applies to cables. Monster has a long history of selling scams for higher prices. Monster marked speaker cables with an 'amp' and 'speaker' labels. Many could hear a difference when the cables were reversed. So Monster sold $7 speaker cable for $70.
Best is to ignore any recommendation without numbers. What remains are the few who know how this stuff really works. Scams are so easy promoted because so many eyes glaze over when numbers appear.
BTW, a 'regenerator' function already exists inside electronics. Did they forget to mention that to protect sales? Incandescent bulbs can dim to 50%. Voltage that low is perfectly good for all properly designed electronics - due to a standard and necessary 'regenerator' function.
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Post by craigl59 on Oct 7, 2016 14:44:12 GMT -5
I'm still out on the expensive cables of any kind. I won't discount it because there are a lot of people that feel that it does make a difference, but so far I haven't heard it and there's little evidence to suggest it would make a worthwhile difference. If the recommendation has credibility, then it comes with numbers. No numbers is the first indication of junk science reasoning. That power regenerator is a classic example. Why are spec numbers not readily available for each model? Because they are not marketing to anyone with basic electrical knowledge. Their market is the technically naive - who routinely ignore specification numbers. Same applies to cables. Monster has a long history of selling scams for higher prices. Monster marked speaker cables with an 'amp' and 'speaker' labels. Many could hear a difference when the cables were reversed. So Monster sold $7 speaker cable for $70. Best is to ignore any recommendation without numbers. What remains are the few who know how this stuff really works. Scams are so easy promoted because so many eyes glaze over when numbers appear. BTW, a 'regenerator' function already exists inside electronics. Did they forget to mention that to protect sales? Incandescent bulbs can dim to 50%. Voltage that low is perfectly good for all properly designed electronics - due to a standard and necessary 'regenerator' function. westom: Agree with much of your statement, however... ...years as a musician, studio guy, and audiophile have taught me that audio and microphone interconnects are crucial to the best sound. Some of this can be measured and here is a resource I use frequently for XLR cables: www.sengpielaudio.com/calculator-cable.htm Context is critical to choosing the right cable and one choice you make is to emphasize lower capacitance (=AES/EBU cables) or better noise rejection (=quad core). A number of studio pundits say just use the cheapest AES cables you can find; I think they might be right. The final check for me is always the ear and I have reported a recent experience to the estimable ChuckieNut that changing a fairly short XLR cable run of 8 feet to Belden 1800f cables made a significant improvement in detail and transparency (connecting a Stealth DC-1 to a pair of Stealth 6 speakers). Monster is an interesting case because they have engaged in lots of cheap practices although their longtime Studio Pro 1000 cable was a rightful standard in the field for many years. The knowledgeable boomzilla has noted some of the advantages of BlueJeansCable and I use them as a first choice. Have not noted any appreciable improvement with an upgrade to their unbalanced RCA/Stereo Audio cables but do appreciate their quality. On the other hand, have heard very significant improvement in moving from unbalanced to balanced cables using balanced pres/converters and balanced Emotiva power amplifiers. The adjectives would be "crisper" and "more realistic." And to promote further discussion, have been using Furman conditioners of all types for many years and find these do provide audible improvement. The sequencing and amplifier surge capabilities of their Elite 15-pfi have made it the basis for all of my home theatre setups. Yes, they do clean up the power supply and remove certain types of distortion that is audible (at least to me...).
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Post by johnreid on Oct 13, 2016 15:00:41 GMT -5
I had to get longer cords than supplied by Emo for my office/studio setup. I went for Monoprice.com 25' 14 gauge cords at $12.50 each. Everything matches what was on the stock cable as far as specs go. www.monoprice.comI use these monitors for recording  |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 13, 2016 15:06:57 GMT -5
I had to get longer cords than supplied by Emo for my office/studio setup. I went for Monoprice.com 25' 14 gauge cords at $12.50 each. Everything matches what was on the stock cable as far as specs go. www.monoprice.comI use these monitors for recording |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 13, 2016 15:08:46 GMT -5
Plus one! However I must admit that we apparently have dirty power in this part of Worshington State. Consequently, I run my power cords thru a garden hose (turned on). The clean power makes a night and day dry and wet improvement in the sound from our electrical components and speakers. We do also tend to have some sewage leakage into our water supply and since I have added the hose we have experienced no brown outs. If you can't hear the difference either your ears are not sensitive enough or your components are not discerning enough. Without a water purification system, your efforts are waisted my friend!  Sorry to be the bearer of bad news.  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 16, 2016 3:14:42 GMT -5
Well, normally I'm in the "anti-measurement crowd." But for power cords I think listening and measurement fully agree - there's no significant benefit UNLESS both of two issues are present: Very long power cord runs AND very high EMI / RFI noise environment. If BOTH of these issues are present and the device is drawing LOTS of power, then a heavier-gauge, shielded cord might (theoretically) be justified. But having never had an environment that met both those criteria, I've personally not heard any differences. Even if my use did justify a heavy-gauge, shielded cord, there are inexpensive AC power cords available that are deliberately designed for those purposes. So there's still no justification for spending much money on a power cord. And if you've got to look at the cord then you could put a wrap on an inexpensive cord & have the cosmetics of an expensive power cord at a fraction of the cost. In my rat's nest of wiring, having such a wrap might make it simpler to keep track of which wire was which. So I've just talked myself into some "expensive-looking" power cords! Does that count?  |
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 16, 2016 9:29:06 GMT -5
You can if you want. But what do you do with the stuff behind your wall? I am not against nice power cables, I use some, but I am not going to call them the new Messiah. either.  |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 16, 2016 10:44:39 GMT -5
Another classic example that makes the point:
"A chain is only as strong as the weakest link"
Bill
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 16, 2016 11:17:21 GMT -5
I build my own nice quality power cables using a quality 12 or 14 gauge Belden wire with Marinco 8215 NEMA Hospital-Grade plugs and Marinco 320IEC15 IEC Power Connectors. Of course using a larger gauge wire than is in your wall is useless. What makes the difference is using quality shielded wire to help prevent interference and noise from entering the system where the high voltage power cable comes near other cables and other components in the system. This helps to keep the noise floor as low as possible. Another thing to do is to keep your power cords separated as much as possible from your speaker wires and interconnects, don't run them together.  |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 16, 2016 11:40:09 GMT -5
One of those things that happens here is the term " high voltage" gets blown out of proportion in the context of regular 110 volt household current and the application, in this case, home audio gear.
Only the amplifiers need to be looked at twice, to be sure the power cord is sufficient.
ALL the other gear is low voltage draw, for the most part.
In a properly grounded system a stock emotiva power amp. Cord can run right next to any decent quality (common sense) interconnect with zero noise issues.
Bill
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 16, 2016 15:35:35 GMT -5
One of those things that happens here is the term " high voltage" gets blown out of proportion in the context of regular 110 volt household current and the application, in this case, home audio gear. Only the amplifiers need to be looked at twice, to be sure the power cord is sufficient. ALL the other gear is low voltage draw, for the most part. In a properly grounded system a stock emotiva power amp. Cord can run right next to any decent quality (common sense) interconnect with zero noise issues. Bill Sure works just fine, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on. The stock engine in every car works and in general works pretty well, yet there are some people who prefer to make changes and little tweaks to increase their performance, especially with high performance cars. Emotiva is already a high performance component in a music or home theater system, it only makes sense that some people will want to do some changes and little tweaks to get the most performance from their systems. |
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Post by sancho89 on Oct 26, 2016 0:30:31 GMT -5
I had to get longer cords than supplied by Emo for my office/studio setup. I went for Monoprice.com 25' 14 gauge cords at $12.50 each. Everything matches what was on the stock cable as far as specs go. www.monoprice.comI use these monitors for recording what speaker stands are these? |
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Post by copperpipe on Oct 26, 2016 8:21:50 GMT -5
One of those things that happens here is the term " high voltage" gets blown out of proportion in the context of regular 110 volt household current and the application, in this case, home audio gear. Only the amplifiers need to be looked at twice, to be sure the power cord is sufficient. ALL the other gear is low voltage draw, for the most part. In a properly grounded system a stock emotiva power amp. Cord can run right next to any decent quality (common sense) interconnect with zero noise issues. Bill Sure works just fine, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on. The stock engine in every car works and in general works pretty well, yet there are some people who prefer to make changes and little tweaks to increase their performance, especially with high performance cars. Emotiva is already a high performance component in a music or home theater system, it only makes sense that some people will want to do some changes and little tweaks to get the most performance from their systems. There are tweaks and there is nonsense; "upgraded" power cords fall 100% into the second category. Trying to improve your power cable is like cutting a water hose in half and then splicing in a $1000 3 foot upgraded section. Do you think that 3 feet will do anything to change the water coming out the end? |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 26, 2016 8:32:11 GMT -5
Sure works just fine, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on. The stock engine in every car works and in general works pretty well, yet there are some people who prefer to make changes and little tweaks to increase their performance, especially with high performance cars. Emotiva is already a high performance component in a music or home theater system, it only makes sense that some people will want to do some changes and little tweaks to get the most performance from their systems. There are tweaks and there is nonsense; "upgraded" power cords fall 100% into the second category. Trying to improve your power cable is like cutting a water hose in half and then splicing in a $1000 3 foot upgraded section. Do you think that 3 feet will do anything to change the water coming out the end? Ha yes ( I love it) Of course you are 110 percent correct. However, so long as there are those who will buy into it and say it can't hurt.....we're doomed !! You've also pointed out that water and electricity don't mix Bill |
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KeithL
Administrator 
Posts: 10,256
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Post by KeithL on Oct 26, 2016 9:46:35 GMT -5
I'll bet they really make your system ROAR! (I hear they're very popular in Tokyo.) I use Godzillas.....12000.00 each but the improvement is monstrous Bill |
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Sorry to be the bearer of bad news. 
