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Post by monkumonku on Oct 26, 2016 9:51:55 GMT -5
Sure works just fine, but that doesn't mean it can't be improved on. The stock engine in every car works and in general works pretty well, yet there are some people who prefer to make changes and little tweaks to increase their performance, especially with high performance cars. Emotiva is already a high performance component in a music or home theater system, it only makes sense that some people will want to do some changes and little tweaks to get the most performance from their systems. There are tweaks and there is nonsense; "upgraded" power cords fall 100% into the second category. Trying to improve your power cable is like cutting a water hose in half and then splicing in a $1000 3 foot upgraded section. Do you think that 3 feet will do anything to change the water coming out the end? Well actually in the case of the water hose, it could very well improve the water. It could contain filtering components so it takes in impure water and purifies it. Same could be said of a power cord. Even though the power coming for miles through the wires to your house is "dirty" the power cord somehow cleans it up and makes your system sound better. Now that's a bunch of nonsense but then one could argue that's what it does. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Oct 26, 2016 10:10:11 GMT -5
That is certainly true..... and it's also true that it's easy to get carried away (I wouldn't gain much by attaching a 20,000 lb tow chain to the plastic bumper on my Nissan). The reality is that a poor quality interconnect, power cable, or speaker cable can easily compromise the sound of your system. However, in the general sense, the point of diminishing returns is reached VERY fast, and much sooner than many people seem to think. For interconnects: - resistance isn't very important; unless it's just plain defective, an interconnect is unlikely to have significant resistance - capacitance IS important; too much capacitance will roll off high frequencies (and some equipment, like tubes, is much more sensitive to it) - inductance is generally trivial; a plain old wire has relatively low inductance (inductance is only likely to be a problem with goofy "special" cables) - shielding is important' more is better (but shielding CAN increase capacitance significantly) For speaker cables: - resistance is important; this is why you want relatively heavy speaker cables, and the longer the cable the heavier it should be (14 gauge for 10 feet is more than you need; heavier never hurts) - inductance would be a problem for some amplifiers; however, plain old zip cord has relatively low inductance (and so is fine); reducing it further generally produces no benefit - capacitance would also be a problem if it's high enough; however, again, plain old zip cord is fine (there have been cases of goofy "special" speaker cables having high enough capacitance to cause problems - shielding; generally not necessary, although, IN SOME SPECIFIC CASES, interference can get in through a speaker cable and, IF IT DOES, then shielding may prevent it (but shielding causes an increase in capacitance, which can cause problems, so shielding should probably be avoided unless added to address an actual problem) For power cables: - resistance is important; wire must be heavy enough to deliver the required current with minimal losses (since your house wiring is either 12 gauge or 14 gauge, those are fine for a power cable) (A power cable that's too thin may restrict current flow and compromise the performance of a big amplifier; adding gauge beyond the appropriate amount is pointless; heavy cables on preamps are pointless.) - IF YOU HAVE A POWER REGENERATOR, then it MIGHT make sense to use extra-heavy or shielded power cable (but many power regenerators actually are LESS able to meet demands than the line itself) - shielding is generally unimportant; however, in the case of s power cable, capacitance really doesn't matter, so shielding won't ever hurt (shielding MAY prevent noise from going into or out of a power cable so, IN SPECIFIC SITUATIONS, it MAY be beneficial). HOWEVER, the big "take away" from this is that, in the vast majority of situations, the power cable that came with your equipment, or basic $10 interconnect cables, and basic "heavy duty zip cord" speaker cables, are ALREADY at the point of diminishing to nonexistent returns. Therefore, you should only "upgrade them" if you have actual problems related to one of them, or if you really like to spend money. (And, yes, I would absolutely upgrade an 18 gauge power cable on an amplifier, or a long 18 gauge speaker cable.) Note that some cables may look pretty, or be easier to handle, in which case that may justify spending more for them; just be honest and don't expect better PERFORMANCE from them. Another classic example that makes the point: "A chain is only as strong as the weakest link" Bill |
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Post by jefft51 on Oct 26, 2016 11:51:37 GMT -5
I tried using my Stealth 6's with and without the power cords. It made a HUGE difference. With the cords it was like a lead veil was lifted! My conclusion is Power Cords DO MATTER!  Jeff |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 26, 2016 12:02:18 GMT -5
I tried using my Stealth 6's with and without the power cords. It made a HUGE difference. With the cords it was like a lead veil was lifted! My conclusion is Power Cords DO MATTER! Jeff I agree for 120 reasons. Now excuse me while I go back and listen to my favorite band AC DC😁😁😁 |
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Post by vcautokid on Oct 26, 2016 12:04:03 GMT -5
I tried using my Stealth 6's with and without the power cords. It made a HUGE difference. With the cords it was like a lead veil was lifted! My conclusion is Power Cords DO MATTER! Jeff I agree, and it is even better on Thursday after dinner with some fine drink. |
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 28, 2016 21:28:34 GMT -5
Most original power cords are insulated but not shielded, this includes Emotiva's original power cords, Emotiva does sell shielded power cords in their E-connects cable accessories. Plain insulated wire does absolutely nothing, nada, zero, to protect from RF EMI electromagnetic interference which can introduce noise into your system as either strong very audible noise or very quiet subtle yet a higher system noise floor which can affect the overall system sound quality. Using shielded wire protects against and eliminates RF EMI noise. So using a shielded power cable can be a nice addition to your system and can also work well with a nice power conditioner to help keep your system sounding its very best. Very expensive exotic or massive gauge power cords do absolutely nothing, but quality shielded well constructed cords can be a nice addition to your system. I build my own power cords with a quality shielded Belden wire and quality Marinco connectors, nicely covered with Techflex for durability and nice looks, they cost me about $35.00 on average and they are exactly the length I need with no extra mess. A good power conditioner can also help eliminate noise and protect your system and add other nice benefits as well but some power conditioners can also hurt your sound quality so be careful and select wisely and be sure to audition them with your system. A good power conditioner will not limit power to amps using their "High Current outputs" but there are many which will. Here is a little info about electromagnetic-interference and shielding: eeeic.eu/proc/papers/55.pdfsearchmobilecomputing.techtarget.com/definition/electromagnetic-interference |
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Post by novisnick on Oct 28, 2016 21:32:36 GMT -5
Most original power cords are insulated but not shielded, this includes Emotiva's original power cords, Emotiva does sell shielded power cords in their E-connects cable accessories. Plain insulated wire does absolutely nothing, nada, zero, to protect from RF EMI electromagnetic interference which can introduce noise into your system as either strong very audible noise or very quiet subtle yet a higher system noise floor which can affect the overall system sound quality. Using shielded wire protects against and eliminates RF EMI noise. So using a shielded power cable can be a nice addition to your system and can also work well with a nice power conditioner to help keep your system sounding its very best. Very expensive exotic or massive gauge power cords do absolutely nothing, but quality shielded well constructed cords can be a nice addition to your system. I build my own power cords with a quality shielded Belden wire and quality Marinco connectors, nicely covered with Techflex for durability and nice looks, they cost me about $35.00 on average and they are exactly the length I need with no extra mess. A good power conditioner can also help eliminate noise and protect your system and add other nice benefits as well but some power conditioners can also hurt your sound quality so be careful and select wisely and be sure to audition them with your system. A good power conditioner will not limit power to amps using their "High Current outputs" but there are many which will. Here is a little info about electromagnetic-interference and shielding: eeeic.eu/proc/papers/55.pdfsearchmobilecomputing.techtarget.com/definition/electromagnetic-interferenceI wholeheartedly disagree!! Insulated cables keeps the wire warmer!!  |
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Post by hosko on Oct 28, 2016 22:05:31 GMT -5
Depends how much RF interference is present, most electronics these days don't throw out much RF. If you live next to a nuclear bomb testing facility YMMV
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Post by solidstate on Oct 28, 2016 22:39:02 GMT -5
I bought seven of those Emotiva power cords simply because I felt guilty getting a stack of UPA-1 monoblocks for $215 each. Decent quality power cord though I'm not sure if it's shielded or not.
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Post by solidstate on Oct 28, 2016 22:49:58 GMT -5
Depends how much RF interference is present, most electronics these days don't throw out much RF. If you live next to a nuclear bomb testing facility YMMV I totally disagree. Many devices today have crappy designed SMPSs that emit a lot of RF. |
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 28, 2016 22:57:02 GMT -5
I bought seven of those Emotiva power cords simply because I felt guilty getting a stack of UPA-1 monoblocks for $215 each. Decent quality power cord though I'm not sure if it's shielded or not. Yes they are shielded. emotiva.com/products/interconnects/x-iecHere is a pic of my power cords at my PF-60 power conditioner.  |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 29, 2016 6:39:23 GMT -5
At this point, only a POWER FAILURE, could (possibly) bail this thread.💤💤💤
Bill
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Post by vneal on Oct 29, 2016 7:44:50 GMT -5
WARNING POWER FAILURE
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Post by copperpipe on Oct 29, 2016 8:30:32 GMT -5
You guys slay me. So you just "shielded" 3 feet of power cable, congrats. Now go all out and shield the entire thing (from power plant to speaker cone) because 3 feet ain't doin squat.
Obsessing over 3 feet of power cable is just ridiculous. There is an entire amp with unshielded (gasp!) wires inside it, caps, resistors, soldering; how do you sleep at night knowing there is so much more you can "tweak" and waste your money on? You waste money on something that has the least effect on the overall sound.
But I'll leave you to it. Whatever floats your boat.
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 29, 2016 9:11:03 GMT -5
You guys slay me. So you just "shielded" 3 feet of power cable, congrats. Now go all out and shield the entire thing (from power plant to speaker cone) because 3 feet ain't doin squat. Obsessing over 3 feet of power cable is just ridiculous. There is an entire amp with unshielded (gasp!) wires inside it, caps, resistors, soldering; how do you sleep at night knowing there is so much more you can "tweak" and waste your money on? You waste money on something that has the least effect on the overall sound. But I'll leave you to it. Whatever floats your boat. Love ❤️ it! Keep it commin Common sense is something I have to get used to Bill |
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 29, 2016 11:48:26 GMT -5
You guys slay me. So you just "shielded" 3 feet of power cable, congrats. Now go all out and shield the entire thing (from power plant to speaker cone) because 3 feet ain't doin squat. Obsessing over 3 feet of power cable is just ridiculous. There is an entire amp with unshielded (gasp!) wires inside it, caps, resistors, soldering; how do you sleep at night knowing there is so much more you can "tweak" and waste your money on? You waste money on something that has the least effect on the overall sound. But I'll leave you to it. Whatever floats your boat. Using this logic, you won't need to clean your water glass either since nothing was cleaned in miles on the waters journey to your faucet which can get pretty ugly. Again this is also where a power conditioner comes into play to clean what has come to your system. BTW amps and other components do feature forms of internal shielding and internally wires are shielded by the case. For best performance speaker wire is not shielded though wire designs like "twisted pair" helps to protect them as well as shielding of other nearby cables, thus one of the reasons for shielding power cables. Back to water, at home I use a Britta pitcher to filter my water, think of this as a power conditioner. At home I also prefer to use glass drinking cups as opposed to plastic ones. The glass ones are a little more expensive but I prefer the clean taste where I find reusing plastic glasses tends to pick up an added taste that I dislike so I prefer the real glass. Think of this as your power cable the shielded cable will not add any unwanted noise to my system, the unshielded cable works well but can pick up or add unwanted noise. |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 29, 2016 13:44:14 GMT -5
No need to wash my glass.....the alcohol this thread drove me to kills the germs
Bill
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Post by adaboy on Oct 29, 2016 14:00:00 GMT -5
You guys slay me. So you just "shielded" 3 feet of power cable, congrats. Now go all out and shield the entire thing (from power plant to speaker cone) because 3 feet ain't doin squat. Obsessing over 3 feet of power cable is just ridiculous. There is an entire amp with unshielded (gasp!) wires inside it, caps, resistors, soldering; how do you sleep at night knowing there is so much more you can "tweak" and waste your money on? You waste money on something that has the least effect on the overall sound. But I'll leave you to it. Whatever floats your boat. Using this logic, you won't need to clean your water glass either since nothing was cleaned in miles on the waters journey to your faucet which can get pretty ugly. Again this is also where a power conditioner comes into play to clean what has come to your system. BTW amps and other components do feature forms of internal shielding and internally wires are shielded by the case. For best performance speaker wire is not shielded though wire designs like "twisted pair" helps to protect them as well as shielding of other nearby cables, thus one of the reasons for shielding power cables. Back to water, at home I use a Britta pitcher to filter my water, think of this as a power conditioner. At home I also prefer to use glass drinking cups as opposed to plastic ones. The glass ones are a little more expensive but I prefer the clean taste where I find reusing plastic glasses tends to pick up an added taste that I dislike so I prefer the real glass. Think of this as your power cable the shielded cable will not add any unwanted noise to my system, the unshielded cable works well but can pick up or add unwanted noise. I agree with you on water; however, this is not a direct comparison. I have a in house water softener and reverse osmosis water treatment. I don't think there is anything that comes close to that regarding electricity. |
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Post by RichGuy on Oct 29, 2016 14:38:28 GMT -5
I have a in house water softener and reverse osmosis water treatment. I don't think there is anything that comes close to that regarding electricity. Well I am completely fine without the water softener and reverse osmosis water treatment and would never spend my money on them. However I do very much like the extremely nice sound of my music and home theater and all little tweaks and changes I have made make me appreciate it even more. |
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Post by adaboy on Oct 29, 2016 14:44:57 GMT -5
I have a in house water softener and reverse osmosis water treatment. I don't think there is anything that comes close to that regarding electricity. Well I am completely fine without the water softener and reverse osmosis water treatment and would never spend my money on them. However I do very much like the extremely nice sound of my music and home theater and all little tweaks and changes I have made make me appreciate it even more.I don't disagree with you here The water softener here in the desert is important lol |
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