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Post by simpleman68 on Feb 16, 2017 9:17:15 GMT -5
... They dig down very deep and just fill the air with low notes like you'd hear with live music. Mids are very live without being harsh or fatiguing. They are very responsive to minor changes to the DSP and are some of the most accurate speakers I've ever listened to. That was the only big negative was that it made plenty of my older discs unpleasant to listen to. BUT, stick some big band, jazz, acoustic rock/pop etc on them and they work some ear magic; particularly with a good tube amp like the Cary I'm currently running. I had the same experience when I picked up my Legacy Audio Focus SEs last May. Some of my favorite discs didn't sound good because they're very unforgiving of bad recording/mastering. The Good News™ is that I've been able to find some of these remastered which are significantly better than what I had before. But not everything is available remastered. (sigh) Other than that, like you, these are the best speakers I've ever had and I love them. Casey Almost got a pair of the Focus before these Whispers XDs. They are an incredible bang for the buck and have all Legacy's best drivers and incredible bass imaging for their size. Optimum perf:cost of their line in my opinion. Scott |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 16, 2017 10:06:08 GMT -5
So your argument is weight? Really? Really?? You do realize we are discussing "full range floor standers?" I have only had 1 time weight factored into a purchase. I bought a Rythmik F25 (which I love by the way, and it is, and I mean this...it is HYUGE!!! And is so so beautiful, and I really mean that...). I knew it would be delivered on a pallet. But, the day it was supposed to arrive, I learned it was going to arrive on a semi! And, they told me they would only be able to meet me at the end of my lane to deliver. That is 350' away from my house. AND...they said the semi driver would need me to lift the pallet off the truck because it was not being delivered with a lift gate. OK, sure...I'll just lift a pallet weighing 200# off the back of a semi and carry it 350'. "Right...." We shifted the delivery date until they could bring it on a liftgate truck. I met the driver at the end of my lane with a tractor and small trailer, we took the box of sub off the pallet at the end of my lane and slid it off the liftgate into my trailer, I drove the tractor around to my lower level entrance, and slid the box down two 2*12's into a double wide door. Then,I opened the box and slid the sub into place on furniture moving pads that Rythmik provided. Luckily, I chose a great spot and the sub has only moved 6" since. Other than that, the only weight I worry about is my own fat... Mark Love the story, all for the love of bass.  Us audiophile sorts are a weird bunch, aren't we.   Of course weight of a component absolutely could be a major factory in a buying decision. There are many reasons why for sure; a bad back being high on the list. What I was disputing with yves is that he basically said a disadvantage from a floorstander with built in subs over one without is weight. Like there is some sort of typical huge difference. I'm sure there is with some brands and models, but in 2 of the most common brands, Def Tech & Golden Ear, there is not. One of the typical advantages of buying a Class D amp is weight; they simply don't weigh much. So to say "Adding a built-in amplifier to a big floorstanding speaker just makes it heavier so this becomes a limiting factor" is a big stretch and an exaggeration of the reality. They aren't exactly light speakers by any means (mine weigh about 100 lbs each), but that's mostly because of the solidly built MDF cabinets and extensive internal bracing, not the amp inside. The fact is, almost all floorstanding speakers are in the category of "big," and many of those are also in the category of "heavy." And both of those things can often contribute to one of the reasons floorstanders sound the way they do. |
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Post by klinemj on Feb 16, 2017 10:18:10 GMT -5
totally agree!
Mark
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Post by simpleman68 on Feb 16, 2017 10:27:39 GMT -5
What I was disputing with yves is that he basically said a disadvantage from a floorstander with built in subs over one without is weight. Like there is some sort of typical huge difference. I'm sure there is with some brands and models, but in 2 of the most common brands, Def Tech & Golden Ear, there is not. One of the typical advantages of buying a Class D amp is weight; they simply don't weigh much. So to say "Adding a built-in amplifier to a big floorstanding speaker just makes it heavier so this becomes a limiting factor" is a big stretch and an exaggeration of the reality. They aren't exactly light speakers by any means (mine weigh about 100 lbs each), but that's mostly because of the solidly built MDF cabinets and extensive internal bracing, not the amp inside. The fact is, almost all floorstanding speakers are in the category of "big," and many of those are also in the category of "heavy." And both of those things can often contribute to one of the reasons floorstanders sound the way they do. Valid point about weight. Hell, my speakers are 225 lbs each and I'd guess the built in class D amps weigh no more than 10 lbs a side. Surprisingly, they slide across my wood floors pretty easily. Sure helps when trying to get them in an optimal position. Scott |
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Post by Bonzo on Feb 16, 2017 11:15:03 GMT -5
]Valid point about weight. Hell, my speakers are 225 lbs each and I'd guess the built in class D amps weigh no more than 10 lbs a side. Surprisingly, they slide across my wood floors pretty easily. Sure helps when trying to get them in an optimal position. Scott I think a funny attribute as weight translates to sound, is that how something that weighs more can typically sound better than something that is light. Now before I get bashed in here and people post all kinds of situations when this doesn't hold true (of which there are many), I'm just saying it as a general "stereotypical" statement (no pun intended). As technology improves, it's certainly become a more outdated statement than it was years ago. But it does still have merit, both in speakers and electronics (and even vinyl). Even if the extra weight simply comes from build quality and structure, heavier is a sign of better in many cases. I dare you to carpet that room and put some spikes on those puppies!!!! |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 16, 2017 12:36:58 GMT -5
Almost got a pair of the Focus before these Whispers XDs. They are an incredible bang for the buck and have all Legacy's best drivers and incredible bass imaging for their size. Optimum perf:cost of their line in my opinion. Yeah, I've looked at the other Legacy Audio speakers above the Focus SE after buying them and I think I made the right decision — especially for my Living Room which something like 14'x16'. The other speakers would have completely dominated the room. I'm very happy with them. Casey |
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Post by simpleman68 on Feb 16, 2017 12:55:18 GMT -5
Almost got a pair of the Focus before these Whispers XDs. They are an incredible bang for the buck and have all Legacy's best drivers and incredible bass imaging for their size. Optimum perf:cost of their line in my opinion. Yeah, I've looked at the other Legacy Audio speakers above the Focus SE after buying them and I think I made the right decision — especially for my Living Room which something like 14'x16'. The other speakers would have completely dominated the room. I'm very happy with them. Casey Agreed, took me years to realize how important the room is to speaker selection. My LR is 20' X 20' with an 18' ceiling and opens to the kitchen which is 14' X 18'. They really fill that space. Although when I visited Legacy, the demo room for the Whispers was a nearly square 12' X 12' room with an 8' ceiling and the listening seat was about 8' from the speakers and they still sounded incredible. I asked and Doug at Legacy commented that "no tricks are used here, we want folks to know what they'll sound like in an acoustically challenged room". Very cool and honest approach. They sounded wonderful in that little room and substantially better (to my ears) in my LR with all the space and high ceilings. Scott |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 16, 2017 13:53:51 GMT -5
Wow. So cool that you got to visit Legacy Audio. I did my auditioning via a dealer from Los Angeles who was up here at the Bay Area Audio show and then I went down to their offices in Los Angeles. A really nice time and a great dealer so I'm happy, but it would have been fun to "go to the mother ship!" Congratulations on what must have been a very fun Road Trip.
Casey
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Post by goozoo on Feb 16, 2017 14:05:57 GMT -5
What you have to consider here is how much more you would need to spend to get a noticeably better sounding pair of speakers than the ones you have now. While there are other options out there, it may not be worth the cost difference as the Lore's are that good to begin with. YMMV, but over the years of "upgradeitis" I realized that my budget would have to be in line with my aspirations if I wanted to step up; hence it became the perfect cure to stop in my case.
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Post by simpleman68 on Feb 16, 2017 14:40:20 GMT -5
Wow. So cool that you got to visit Legacy Audio. I did my auditioning via a dealer from Los Angeles who was up here at the Bay Area Audio show and then I went down to their offices in Los Angeles. A really nice time and a great dealer so I'm happy, but it would have been fun to "go to the mother ship!" Congratulations on what must have been a very fun Road Trip. Casey Very nice folks to deal with and very welcoming in spite of an obviously busy schedule. And I was getting mine 2nd hand but was still treated like family. I bought my Whispers 15 mins from Legacy HQ and had 'em sitting in my truck during my tour.  *Hijack over* Scott  |
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Post by leonski on Feb 17, 2017 2:27:37 GMT -5
Like that Ford Truck. Neighbor had one with the V-6 turbo motor and I drove it once. Felt very powerful with lots of pull
A real CowBoy Cadillac.
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Post by 405x5 on Feb 17, 2017 9:43:54 GMT -5
"Their design is fairly unique and I'm amazed at how accurate an open air driver configuration can sound. 90 degree off axis response is 0 dB. This and the lack of woofer enclosures helps take a large part of your room out of the equation." This makes sense to me. If those woofers were in sealed enclosures the reflected sound from room surfaces could be a challenge. "They are very responsive to minor changes to the DSP and are some of the most accurate speakers I've ever listened to. That was the only big negative was that it made plenty of my older discs unpleasant to listen to." That is the hallmark of a highly accurate loudspeaker. Bad recordings are going to sound just that (I've got the same problem) as they render the recording as is. The designer (Roy Allison) of my own speakers often stressed how there was nothing like real fine recordings to bring out the best in a fine loudspeaker. Bill |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 17, 2017 13:17:05 GMT -5
Very nice folks to deal with and very welcoming in spite of an obviously busy schedule. And I was getting mine 2nd hand but was still treated like family. I bought my Whispers 15 mins from Legacy HQ and had 'em sitting in my truck during my tour. *Hijack over* Scott, I really don't think it's much of a "hijack" for us to talk about our Legacy Audio Floor Standing Speakers in a thread who's Original Poster is asking about Floor Standing Speakers ... But to really help him, I'll explain what drove my decision process to get the Focus SEs. I've always been a fan of Full Range Floor Standing Speakers. My first love is two-channel stereo. And yes, you can mix non-Full Range Speakers with Subwoofers to get the entire audio spectrum, but I've always felt that the Speaker Designer has the best opportunity to do the right job when they have control of the entire problem in a single product. In addition, I also love Bass Extension so one can hear low organ notes, etc. My first good speakers were the Vansdersteen 2Ci back in 1990 for about $1,200/pair. I picked them over the equivalent priced Thiel Audio speakers at the time — which I think were the CS2? In all honesty, I let my love of Bass Extension pick the Vandersteens and I should have probably picked the Thiels because they definitely imaged better. The Vandersteens were fine, but their imaging was always a bit muddy. [[ My first pair of Vandersteens burned in the Oakland Hills Fire in October 1991 and I picked up my second pair from the same wonderful shop in Santa Monica, Optimal Enchantment, from which I'd bought my first pair. ]] About 8 years ago I started thinking seriously about buying new speakers. Again I wanted Full Range Floor Standing Speakers. Again I wanted good Bass Extension — in fact far better than the Vandersteen 2C's 29Hz -3dB low end. But this time I didn't want to sacrifice imaging or accuracy. I.e. I had more money than sense. My first "no more than this much" figure was ~$7K which I felt would be an absurd amount to "rationally" pay for speakers. Nothing showed up on my radar till about three years ago when I read my first review of the Legacy Audio Focus SE. These were more expensive than my original $7K absurd over-the-top maximum, but hey, it had already been ~6 years since I'd started idly looking and I had even less sense. A few months later I got a chance to see the Legacy Audio Aeris at the California Audio Show being presented by a North Hollywood audio dealer, James Thompson of Destination Hi Fi. This was my first experience with playing one of my favorite CDs and not being happy with the result. I played Jorma Kaukonen's Too Hot To Handle which had been one of the main reasons I bought my Vandersteens. It sounded compressed and flat. I played a couple of other cuts and so did the dealer but needless to say I was disappointed and put the Focus SEs on my back burner figuring that if the higher end Aeris hadn't sounded good, then the Focus SEs weren't liable to do better. But time wore on and I grew bored and my lack of sense increased, so a year ago I went down to see James and audition the Focus SE with a full raft of CDs. Probably the most amazing CD of mine that I played was Zoë Keating's Into The Trees, in particular the lead track Escape Artist. We played many more of mine and James' selections and after only a bit of thought, I pulled the trigger. And I love them and have never regretted the irrational sum of money I spent on them. Yes, the Legacy Audio Focus SEs are very unforgiving of bad recording/mastering, but they make good recording/master sing. And, most recordings are well done in my experience. Artists — and that includes Mastering Engineers — generally care about what they're doing. And the Good News™ is that a lot of the bad recordings have better remasterings available — though, so far unfortunately, not Jorma's Too Hot To Handle. [[ Note that there were a ton of Bad CDs made in the 1980s and early 1990s where Stereo LP Masters, with their attendant 78dB Dynamic Range, would simply be copied to CD. So if you have CDs from that era which sound bad/compressed, you might want to investigate picking up a newer copy. ]] So, hopefully this helps the OP in his own quest ... Casey |
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Post by simpleman68 on Feb 17, 2017 13:22:02 GMT -5
Like that Ford Truck. Neighbor had one with the V-6 turbo motor and I drove it once. Felt very powerful with lots of pull A real CowBoy Cadillac. They are a surprisingly capable truck. I requested the V8 and the salesman told me to look at the specs and then test drive the V6 twin turbo. 3.5 EcoBoost has more torque than the V8 and carries a slightly higher tow rating. 12,200 lbs. Had no problem towing my boat/trailer from WI back to PA. ~ 10,000 lbs. Of course, in Ford fashion, I struggled to get 10 mpg. Ha Scott |
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Post by leonski on Feb 17, 2017 16:25:14 GMT -5
Diesel is the obvious way to go for better economy. My Brother owns the big Dodge with the Italian 3.0 Diesel and he gets some wacky-good numbers AND it has huge torque = pulling power.
At one point he used the company Dodge with the Cummins motor and THAT was a monster getting good economy and limitless feeling torque.
Ford has some Huge 'TakeRate' on the turbo motors. I wouldn't look 2x at a V-8 model.
Floor standers VS a Sat-Sub system is one that only the end user can resolve. Some floor standers, like my Panels do NOT do well below maybe 40hz, though the Magepan 20.x series and particularly the ancient Tympani series do much better.
Space is a concern. Room size and shape. Aestetic factors. Desired bass Extension. All play into the final decision.
And than there are the compromises. Full range speakers are always larger than speakers with truncated bass. Placement is an issue.
The list is endless and the Balancing Act can get brain-draining. My panels with Sub are now essentially a 3-way system and well integrated. It took some work, since running the panels full-range resulted in some pretty muddy bass which took some
time to work thru. Even my den played into the final setup. Yep. My DEN. The original setup resulted in a side room that sounded like you were inside a 55 gallon drum. All bass. But I fixed THAT, too.
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Us audiophile sorts are a weird bunch, aren't we. 
