butchgo
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The Dark Side rules
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Post by butchgo on Oct 27, 2016 7:57:05 GMT -5
Need some advice from you guys.
My little home theater is finally coming to a close and I want to use full range towers in there.
I listen to a lot of 2 channel but I am not a critical listener but I like music to be enjoyed like you are in the studio or audience.
What frequency range is desired to listen to 2 channel without a sub-woofer?
I listen to a broad range of music.
Pretty much everything except country and hip hop (AKA Rap Crap).
I want to be able to experience the impact of the bass notes that Les Claypool can crank out but I want to hear the amazing strings of Apocalyptica too.
Just as a foot note my room is 16' long, 15' wide with a 7-1/2' ceiling.
What say you?
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2016 8:12:01 GMT -5
What brand of speakers are you listening to now in your small system?
So far, you've narrowed the choices down to about one million.....gotta start someplace.
Bill
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butchgo
Emo VIPs
The Dark Side rules
Posts: 570
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Post by butchgo on Oct 27, 2016 8:38:27 GMT -5
Not worried about what brand just your opinion of frequency range to look for.
See my signature.
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Post by vneal on Oct 27, 2016 8:53:45 GMT -5
I would audition some different brands ad select your poison
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 27, 2016 9:19:48 GMT -5
Hi butchgoThe answer to your question "What frequency range is desired to listen to 2 channel without a sub-woofer?" is "as low as you can get." Many full-sized tower speakers these days roll off sharply between 45 & 35 Hz (in anticipation that they WILL be used with a subwoofer). You don't want any of those - they won't be satisfying unless you use a sub. The major problem you'll encounter in trying to select speakers from specs is this: Manufacturers lie. Many lie blatantly in hopes that some yokel will believe their "specs" and buy the speaker despite the fact that it won't do the bass that the manufacturer claims. Steer clear of any speaker with "home theater" anywhere in its name or product description. Some options you might consider are speakers with self-amplified bass. That way, you can adjust the bass range to the preferences of your room and your ears. Makers who offer self-amplified-bass speakers include Golden Ear, Definitive Technology, and others. Another benefit of using self-amplified-bass speakers is that your amplifier has to work far less hard. Lots of makers DO offer speakers with non-amplified bass that goes deep. If you'd like to go that route, options (depending on your budget) might include: Tekton Pendragons ($2K per pair on up) Atlantic Technology AT-1 (I haven't heard these - $1.5K per pair) Cerwin Vega SL15 (I haven't heard these - $1K per pair) And many, many more. |
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butchgo
Emo VIPs
The Dark Side rules
Posts: 570
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Post by butchgo on Oct 27, 2016 9:28:52 GMT -5
Thanks Boom.
I am actually looking at the Tekton Enzo XLs to be honest with the 4 ohm option and the Clarity cap upgrade.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 27, 2016 9:41:10 GMT -5
It's about the size of the room. In a smaller living room like mine I can get away with a lot of speakers while not "missing" the subwoofer. I will always say two subs are always preferrable. So for my smaller living room even the Airmotiv 4's did "okay". Though they didn't plumb the depths, I was grooving out to some bass guitars etc. And my Axioms feel almost full range in it with a tiny bit missing. In larger rooms things change quite a bit so with larger rooms unless you want to pony up for big buck speakers, I suggest subwoofers.
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Post by jlafrenz on Oct 27, 2016 11:04:41 GMT -5
Any reason you don't want to use a subwoofer?
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 27, 2016 11:12:17 GMT -5
Thanks Boom. I am actually looking at the Tekton Enzo XLs to be honest with the 4 ohm option and the Clarity cap upgrade. Can't speak for the XLs, my room is 16x20x8. I have the Enzo towers which definitely benefit from the addition of the Enzo sub for music |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2016 11:26:18 GMT -5
Mundorf Silver-Oil Capacitor Upgrade… Tweeter capacitor upgrades available – Mundorf silver in oil capacitor sets. This is an additional cost for new loudspeakers and prior loudspeakers can be retrofitted. Pendragon – $750 (US Dollars) for the pair Lore – $625 (US Dollars) for the pair Lore-S – $625 (US Dollars) for the pair M-Lore $200 (US Dollars) for the pair Can Any Tekton users provide "insight" to these cap. options that this outfit offers. I can't help it, but immediately I become a bit jaundiced when something like this appears from a loudspeaker manufacturer. I went back to the Tekton "blog" to see what some had to say and guess what?? No definitive answers!! Somebody asked the question specifically about those "sonic differences" that might be had with such an upgrade. The tech who works there said he would clarify in detail and get back.....that was 2012, and this is.....  ?? Bill |
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Post by Boomzilla on Oct 27, 2016 11:46:13 GMT -5
I spoke directly with Tekton owner Eric Alexander before buying my Pendragons. Eric's take on the cap upgrades: Most can't hear any difference. Now keep in mind that this is the owner / designer talking!
I spent an additional $50 for the "Clarity Cap" upgrade despite Eric's advice just to avoid being "penny wise & pound foolish."
But I wouldn't put an additional $750 for cap upgrades into a $2K pair of speakers against the designer's advice.
So Eric says "save your money."
Hope this helped - Boom
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2016 11:59:20 GMT -5
I spoke directly with Tekton owner Eric Alexander before buying my Pendragons. Eric's take on the cap upgrades: Most can't hear any difference. Now keep in mind that this is the owner / designer talking! I spent an additional $50 for the "Clarity Cap" upgrade despite Eric's advice just to avoid being "penny wise & pound foolish." But I wouldn't put an additional $750 for cap upgrades into a $2K pair of speakers against the designer's advice. So Eric says "save your money." Hope this helped - Boom Hi Boom, Indeed, it did. Eric was the one who left the "void" on the blog I looked at, but no matter. And the answer regarding those audible differences, no surprise. I simply find it opportunistic to have such an option out there for the end user to contemplate (and no surprise there of course either!) Bill |
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Oct 27, 2016 12:12:29 GMT -5
Several decades ago the term full range towers (floor standers) was a legitimate description, but usually took a very expensive speaker that could actually reproduce down to the 35Hz or so range at -3dB's.
Now with music sources that can go somewhat lower than in the past with synthesized low bass, etc. and of course low pipe organ music, very few speakers are really full range. As hinted at above the production of very high quality subs used for low bass and + 10dB LFE sounds in movies, now allows one to add a sub to their existing "full range tower" or even excellent bookshelf speaker (flat to 60-80Hz or so) and really have a full range speaker for music which combination will go to -3dB at 30Hz or well below if desired. I know there are many stated reasons why folks don't consider subs. It takes some work to properly blend the tower and the sub but it is well worth the effort and can be a much cheaper solution and better performing than a very expensive full range speaker.
IMO, a full range floor stander at any reasonable price is an oxymoron.
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Post by audiophill on Oct 27, 2016 12:18:35 GMT -5
Tekton brilliance! You'll love them! Attachments:
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Post by jhob on Oct 27, 2016 12:46:05 GMT -5
Tekton brilliance! You'll love them! That's a gorgeous speaker, and I love the blue! |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2016 13:13:06 GMT -5
Several decades ago the term full range towers (floor standers) was a legitimate description, but usually took a very expensive speaker that could actually reproduce down to the 35Hz or so range at -3dB's. Now with music sources that can go somewhat lower than in the past with synthesized low bass, etc. and of course low pipe organ music, very few speakers are really full range. As hinted at above the production of very high quality subs used for low bass and + 10dB LFE sounds in movies, now allows one to add a sub to their existing "full range tower" or even excellent bookshelf speaker (flat to 60-80Hz or so) and really have a full range speaker for music which combination will go to -3dB at 30Hz or well below if desired. I know there are many stated reasons why folks don't consider subs. It takes a some work to properly blend the tower and the sub but it is well worth the effort and can be a much cheaper solution and better performing than a very expensive full range speaker. IMO, a full range floor stander at any reasonable price is an oxymoron. What "ChuckieNut" said....EXACTLY!!!! Less amplifier power is required for the main loudspeakers with a powered subwoofer handling the lower frequencies. Just one of many benefits of considering this route Bill |
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Post by monkumonku on Oct 27, 2016 13:28:38 GMT -5
Several decades ago the term full range towers (floor standers) was a legitimate description, but usually took a very expensive speaker that could actually reproduce down to the 35Hz or so range at -3dB's. Now with music sources that can go somewhat lower than in the past with synthesized low bass, etc. and of course low pipe organ music, very few speakers are really full range. As hinted at above the production of very high quality subs used for low bass and + 10dB LFE sounds in movies, now allows one to add a sub to their existing "full range tower" or even excellent bookshelf speaker (flat to 60-80Hz or so) and really have a full range speaker for music which combination will go to -3dB at 30Hz or well below if desired. I know there are many stated reasons why folks don't consider subs. It takes a some work to properly blend the tower and the sub but it is well worth the effort and can be a much cheaper solution and better performing than a very expensive full range speaker. IMO, a full range floor stander at any reasonable price is an oxymoron. What "ChuckieNut" said....EXACTLY!!!! Less amplifier power is required for the main loudspeakers with a powered subwoofer handling the lower frequencies. Just one of many benefits of considering this route Bill It's not only the lessened strain on the amps, but often the optimal place for low frequencies in a room is not the same place as for the main speakers. You may have full range speakers that are capable of outputting very low frequencies but it depends on where you place the speakers as to how much of that capability will be realized at your listening position. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Oct 27, 2016 13:39:35 GMT -5
I spoke directly with Tekton owner Eric Alexander before buying my Pendragons. Eric's take on the cap upgrades: Most can't hear any difference. Now keep in mind that this is the owner / designer talking! I spent an additional $50 for the "Clarity Cap" upgrade despite Eric's advice just to avoid being "penny wise & pound foolish." But I wouldn't put an additional $750 for cap upgrades into a $2K pair of speakers against the designer's advice. So Eric says "save your money." Hope this helped - Boom Told me the same on my Enzo package. |
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Post by 405x5 on Oct 27, 2016 14:35:15 GMT -5
Not worried about what brand just your opinion of frequency range to look for. See my signature. I learned something about my iPhone 📱 today from this discussion. This morning you had referred me to your "signature". I don't look usually, so today I realized I don't see it unless I'm on the computer. Bill |
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butchgo
Emo VIPs
The Dark Side rules
Posts: 570
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Post by butchgo on Oct 27, 2016 19:17:14 GMT -5
Tekton brilliance! You'll love them! Kinda of out of my price range!!!!! |
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