LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 29, 2018 13:12:40 GMT -5
It properly tone maps the WCG. Where Oppo doesn’t do it correctly. Major ding to the Oppo unfortunately. However the panny does not do sacd The 820 is a GREAT machine Just went and read the article again. The big thing this means for me is that it will play HDR material properly on my old SDR 1080p TV. So I could upgrade now to this 4K player, buy 4K HDR discs now so I don't have to re-buy them later, and still get some advantages of HDR on my old TV. At least its available. Not sure what I'm going to do, but its an option. Once you have a 4K panel, this will be a non-factor. |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 13:15:11 GMT -5
Just went and read the article again. The big thing this means for me is that it will play HDR material properly on my old SDR 1080p TV. So I could upgrade now to this 4K player, buy 4K HDR discs now so I don't have to re-buy them later, and still get some advantages of HDR on my old TV. At least its available. Not sure what I'm going to do, but its an option. Once you have a 4K panel, this will be a non-factor. Well that's not how I read it. www.soundandvision.com/content/panasonic-dp-ub820-ultra-hd-blu-ray-player-review |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 13:20:29 GMT -5
Also, for the $3000 I paid for my Panny ZT, it won't be getting replaced until it HAS to. And I'm hoping by then I can get an 75" OLED for $2000. 😜
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,851
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Post by LCSeminole on Dec 29, 2018 13:36:31 GMT -5
From what I understand, tone mapping is used to properly diplay HDR content on a display that is only capable of SDR. If this is the case, then I won't be having any tone mapping problems sending 4K/HDR content to my 4K/HDR capable panel. Maybe I'm not understanding tone mapping, WCG, NIT's & gamma correctly, but this was how my professional ISF calibrator explained it to me in a dumbed down way. |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 14:08:04 GMT -5
From what I understand, tone mapping is used to properly diplay HDR content on a display that is only capable of SDR. If this is the case, then I won't be having any tone mapping problems sending 4K/HDR content to my 4K/HDR capable panel. Maybe I'm not understanding tone mapping, WCG, NIT's & gamma correctly, but this was how my professional ISF calibrator explained it to me in a dumbed down way. That is most certainly a big chunk of it. But from the article, I understood there to be more to it, that also involves 4K HDR capable displays, especially projectors. I could be wrong. Read it for yourself and let me know what you think. In lamens terms, if a disc is mastered at say, 4000 nits, but your TV is only capable of say 1500 nits, then its possible to have issues with the bright areas getting noticeably clipped. It also causes issues with screens being too dark. And it appears there are discs out there with missing or wrong meta data, so the displays don't play properly because they aren't fed the proper information. This Panny player goes a long way to fix those issues. It seems to me that adding such a feature to a player now, after 4K has been available for years, must mean it has benefits for current displays, not just older ones. Otherwise older players would have had the feature, and newer ones wouldn't. It was certainly more important for players to be backwards compatible 2 or 3 years ago than it is now. At least that's the logic I'm thinking at this moment. |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 14:08:30 GMT -5
It properly tone maps the WCG. Where Oppo doesn’t do it correctly. Major ding to the Oppo unfortunately. However the panny does not do sacd The 820 is a GREAT machine From my understanding while the Panasonics properly tone map BT2020 to BT709, this feature is for the most part for those that don't have 4K capable displays, thus of no concern for those with 4K panels or 4K projectors. While I know this affects many projector owners at this time, I don't see this being much of a weakness when the market phases out 1080p projectors in favor of 4K projectors. Is there any other advantage that tone mapping provides? I'm still on a bit of a learning curve on all this 4K stuff, thus I'm always looking to increase my knowledge on this subject. While the 820 is quite a machine for $500, the 9000 is going for $1000, and at this point I'd easily take an 820 at half the price especially since I'm not in need of the higher end DAC's that the 9000 has. No. Your understanding is NOT correct. It tone maps the bt2020 properly too allow any TV that doesn’t have enough nits to properly view HDR. Which is a large number of display and all projectors. Even if the display shows 1000 nits this doesn’t help for 4000 nit titles. They will be too dark HDR is still displayed on all devices. It’s nomenclature. So when you read hdr to sdr conversion. It’s not an accurate statement. It’s still displaying hdr but mapped properly to not be dim |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 14:08:56 GMT -5
Just went and read the article again. The big thing this means for me is that it will play HDR material properly on my old SDR 1080p TV. So I could upgrade now to this 4K player, buy 4K HDR discs now so I don't have to re-buy them later, and still get some advantages of HDR on my old TV. At least its available. Not sure what I'm going to do, but its an option. Once you have a 4K panel, this will be a non-factor. Again. Incorrect |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 14:10:07 GMT -5
From what I understand, tone mapping is used to properly diplay HDR content on a display that is only capable of SDR. If this is the case, then I won't be having any tone mapping problems sending 4K/HDR content to my 4K/HDR capable panel. Maybe I'm not understanding tone mapping, WCG, NIT's & gamma correctly, but this was how my professional ISF calibrator explained it to me in a dumbed down way. Still incorrect. Keep in mind there are only about 5 calibrator in the US (maybe less) that have any clue how HdR actually works and should be calibrated. |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 14:23:11 GMT -5
From my understanding while the Panasonics properly tone map BT2020 to BT709, this feature is for the most part for those that don't have 4K capable displays, thus of no concern for those with 4K panels or 4K projectors. While I know this affects many projector owners at this time, I don't see this being much of a weakness when the market phases out 1080p projectors in favor of 4K projectors. Is there any other advantage that tone mapping provides? I'm still on a bit of a learning curve on all this 4K stuff, thus I'm always looking to increase my knowledge on this subject. While the 820 is quite a machine for $500, the 9000 is going for $1000, and at this point I'd easily take an 820 at half the price especially since I'm not in need of the higher end DAC's that the 9000 has. No. Your understanding is NOT correct. It tone maps the bt2020 properly too allow any TV that doesn’t have enough nits to properly view HDR. Which is a large number of display and all projectors. Even if the display shows 1000 nits this doesn’t help for 4000 nit titles. They will be too dark HDR is still displayed on all devices. It’s nomenclature. So when you read hdr to sdr conversion. It’s not an accurate statement. It’s still displaying hdr but mapped properly to not be dim I think you are saying exactly what I read. My explanation may not be the best, but I think we are on the exact same page. Yes? Please read what I posted above when you get a few seconds and see. I would like to have confirmation that my understanding is correct. Thanks. |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 14:27:07 GMT -5
No. Your understanding is NOT correct. It tone maps the bt2020 properly too allow any TV that doesn’t have enough nits to properly view HDR. Which is a large number of display and all projectors. Even if the display shows 1000 nits this doesn’t help for 4000 nit titles. They will be too dark HDR is still displayed on all devices. It’s nomenclature. So when you read hdr to sdr conversion. It’s not an accurate statement. It’s still displaying hdr but mapped properly to not be dim I think you are saying exactly what I read. My explanation may not be the best, but I think we are on the exact same page. Yes? Please read what I posted above when you get a few seconds and see. I would like to have confirmation that my understanding is correct. Thanks. You are 100% correct And the panny not only does it correctly. (The oppo is broken and the colors barely reach rec709 colors) but it does it dynamically. Meaning it remaps depending on the disc. So it’s a set it and forget it. With oppos implementation (again doesn’t work properly) you had to adjust the nit slider for every disc you put it to adjust for the nits of the disc being played. Panny does this on its own |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 14:35:47 GMT -5
I think you are saying exactly what I read. My explanation may not be the best, but I think we are on the exact same page. Yes? Please read what I posted above when you get a few seconds and see. I would like to have confirmation that my understanding is correct. Thanks. You are 100% correct And the panny not only does it correctly. (The oppo is broken and the colors barely reach rec709 colors) but it does it dynamically. Meaning it remaps depending on the disc. So it’s a set it and forget it. With oppos implementation (again doesn’t work properly) you had to adjust the nit slider for every disc you put it to adjust for the nits of the disc being played. Panny does this on its own Okay, good. Thanks. I think its interesting, as Kris Deering points out, that this feature basically does 3 things that most products don't. It makes the player backwards compatible for older displays, it fixes issues with current displays, and it makes itself more future compatible because it can be adjusted for when future displays can do more. It seems to me this thing is a rock star, almost too good to be true. What makes me wonder if I should buy one is the state of disks, players, and streaming. Oppo is out. This MIGHT be the last player Panny makes. Of course it may not be, but man, things are a bit weird right now. |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 14:38:45 GMT -5
You are 100% correct And the panny not only does it correctly. (The oppo is broken and the colors barely reach rec709 colors) but it does it dynamically. Meaning it remaps depending on the disc. So it’s a set it and forget it. With oppos implementation (again doesn’t work properly) you had to adjust the nit slider for every disc you put it to adjust for the nits of the disc being played. Panny does this on its own Okay, good. Thanks. I think its interesting, as Kris Deering points out, that this feature basically does 3 things that most products don't. It makes the player backwards compatible for older displays, it fixes issues with current displays, and it makes itself more future compatible because it can be adjusted for when future displays can do more. It seems to me this thing is a rock star, almost too good to be true. What makes me wonder if I should buy one is the state of disks, players, and streaming. Oppo is out. This MIGHT be the last player Panny makes. Of course it may not be, but man, things are a bit weird right now. I wouldn’t put too much stock on discs not being available any time soon |
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 14:52:21 GMT -5
I wouldn’t put too much stock on discs not being available any time soon I'm not worried about the discs really, more about high quality players. I think players will be around, but at some point I think great players will go away, or be priced in the stratosphere. Like there will be $100 players and $2000 players, with not much inbetween. Oppo already bailed. Who is next? |
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Post by mgbpuff on Dec 29, 2018 15:27:39 GMT -5
I thought this was an Oppo UDP-203 thread, not a Panasonic thread. And Bonzo, just like you don't have a RMC-1, you don't have an Oppo. The really good news about new Oppo software is now buried a whole page back.
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Post by lrobertson on Dec 29, 2018 15:30:53 GMT -5
I think the number one thing Oppo has that the panny has chosen not to incorporate is anamorphic support with subtitle relocation for the niche projector market. And of course the Dac. I wish I got the 205 now that I’m considering swapping my 203 for my pt-7030. I have a feeling the 32 bit akm dac’s will be a step down though in sq. I want to move on to Madvr with a htpc for the projector soon and I could use the 203 with my non-HDR 4k tv. I’d just feel guilty not utilizing the 203 DAC. The Sabre DAC’s would be great but I’m not paying 3x over retail after I missed that boat.
Does the 203 do dynamic tone mapping for dv and hdr10+ Or does it fall back to the basic hdr10 format?
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Post by Bonzo on Dec 29, 2018 15:38:26 GMT -5
I thought this was an Oppo UDP-203 thread, not a Panasonic thread. And Bonzo, just like you don't have a RMC-1, you don't have an Oppo. The really good news about new Oppo software is now buried a whole page back. But you are wrong, as usual. I do have an Oppo. My signature is not accurate. |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 15:49:04 GMT -5
I thought this was an Oppo UDP-203 thread, not a Panasonic thread. And Bonzo, just like you don't have a RMC-1, you don't have an Oppo. The really good news about new Oppo software is now buried a whole page back. If you are not part of the solution your part of the problem. |
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Post by musicfan on Dec 29, 2018 15:50:33 GMT -5
I think the number one thing Oppo has that the panny has chosen not to incorporate is anamorphic support with subtitle relocation for the niche projector market. And of course the Dac. I wish I got the 205 now that I’m considering swapping my 203 for my pt-7030. I have a feeling the 32 bit akm dac’s will be a step down though in sq. I want to move on to Madvr with a htpc for the projector soon and I could use the 203 with my non-HDR 4k tv. I’d just feel guilty not utilizing the 203 DAC. The Sabre DAC’s would be great but I’m not paying 3x over retail after I missed that boat. Does the 203 do dynamic tone mapping for dv and hdr10+ Or does it fall back to the basic hdr10 format? The 203 doesn’t do dynamic tone mapping And although no anamorphic mode on the panny. You can in fact move the subtitles |
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Post by lrobertson on Dec 29, 2018 16:05:35 GMT -5
Most projectors have the basic ability to do anamorphic stretch themselves so I’d guess the panny with subtitle feature would be enough. Good to know thanks
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,851
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 9, 2019 1:21:03 GMT -5
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