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Post by Jim on Jan 23, 2017 9:00:12 GMT -5
Hey.. I was just curious. No need to get all defensive.... BTW, have you also spent time doing research to determine the best way to identify apologists? I mean, do you assign a probability? Is there a margin of error? Actually it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer as they invariably "out" themselves. Speaking of defensive.........  |
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cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
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Post by cawgijoe on Jan 23, 2017 9:03:09 GMT -5
I'm sure they are, but they don't spend all day perusing them. If you have a problem, pick up the phone and call. Why is that so hard? Yes we can call and since its no longer the weekend we will. I do believe however that it would be way more efficient for Emo to answer questions here. They have a focus group with multiple people experiencing the same issues. They could respond to 15 people here in parallel or take the time to answer 15 separate inquiries in series. Call them and ask them if they could do that. Good idea. |
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Post by harlan on Jan 23, 2017 9:29:04 GMT -5
Actually it's intuitively obvious to the most casual observer as they invariably "out" themselves. Speaking of defensive......... You're the troll dude. You asked me a question and I answered it. You have now outed yourself as not only an alologist but also a troll. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 23, 2017 9:45:44 GMT -5
Dan and Lonnie stated that the ship date was held back to put these through stringent QC tests. I just don't understand how there are so many dang bugs. Surely they knew they were there if they ran tests. You've already delayed the product so just release it when it's actually ready. Put me in the camp that is glad they released it in its current state. Is it perfect? No. However its strengths far outweigh its weaknesses and I get to enjoy it much sooner this way. IMO, of course. If it doesn't work for someone, return it and wait the amount of time you suggest above for it to finally be ready. For those who wait for it to finally be ready, I don't see a difference for them if they wait while it's buggy and released, or if they wait had Emo not released it at all. The period of waiting is the same. |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jan 23, 2017 10:01:29 GMT -5
SOME ANSWERS
We have discovered a few trivial issues with the MC-700.
(And those will be fixed soon in a firmware update - which can now be installed via USB stick.)
However, in point of fact, it works quite well and has very few issues.
Unfortunately, 4k is a relatively new technology, and there are many issues with OTHER PRODUCTS.
The 4k standard is complicated, and was "pushed out" rather quickly, and a lot of 4k products don't work 100% as they should according to the standard.
For example, HTPCs are notorious for adopting new technology first, but not getting it quite right for some time afterwards.
(You might want to mention those sorts of problems on NVidia's forums.)
We've also noticed that many sources and TVs have various compatibility issues.
We do the best we can - and WE try to follow the standard correctly.
In other words, we DO read the thread, and are aware of the problems some of you are having.... but we can ONLY fix problems that are our fault.
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Post by Jim on Jan 23, 2017 10:16:50 GMT -5
You're the troll dude. You asked me a question and I answered it. You have now outed yourself as not only an alologist but also a troll. I'm so... offended?? (??...  ?? ? ? ? ) Have you tried contacting support to air your grievances? I know that I'm just a troll apologist, but there is merit in contacting support. Emotiva doesn't provide support via the forum, despite the fact that they do periodically respond to posts. |
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Post by Jim on Jan 23, 2017 10:18:42 GMT -5
... but we can ONLY fix problems that are our fault.
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Post by harlan on Jan 23, 2017 10:24:48 GMT -5
You're the troll dude. You asked me a question and I answered it. You have now outed yourself as not only an alologist but also a troll. I'm so... offended?? (??... ?? ? ? ? ) Have you tried contacting support to air your grievances? I know that I'm just a troll apologist, but there is merit in contacting support. Emotiva doesn't provide support via the forum, despite the fact that they do periodically respond to posts. Did you forget it was the weekend? |
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jan 23, 2017 10:50:25 GMT -5
Exactly.... And songs that have a second or two of dithered silence before the song starts play perfectly..... And, whenever I've manually edited audio, I ALWAYS leave a second or two of "silent lead-in" on each song, and the editing program dithers everything, including the lead-in, so no problem. You will also find that many players have an option they call "fade tracks" - which is nominally intended to fade one track out and the next one in - with a slight overlap. However, fading two tracks requires that they be played at the same sample rate. If you select this option, but specify a "0 second fade" there will be no fade in/out or overlap, but the player will be forced to play everything at the same sample rate, with no cadence breaks, and there should be no mute gaps. I believe some ripping programs have an option to automatically insert a second of silence before each track (I don't know if they dither it or not), but many do not. Because I play almost entirely ripped or downloaded content, if I were to notice a specific song where the beginning was clipped off, I would just pop open my favorite editor and add a one-second lead-in track of dithered silence to those songs. Note that, with a lossless file, if you add a second of silence, and then RE-DITHER the entire file, you will cause a nominal loss of quality - because it will have been dithered twice. What you want to do is to create a separate file with one second of dithered silence, then edit that file into the beginning of your problematic file, and then re-save with with DITHER OFF. With most editors, this should retain the original file as bit-perfect, but add the one second dithered lead in to it. My Fusion 8100 did the same thing by default . Not the chopping issue, but the OSD pop-up was annoying with the Roku, which switches between audio modes depending if you are in the channels menu or watching a movie. In the 8100 there is a setting that allows to deactivate this function, it might be the same with the MC-700. In the Fusion 8100 is in the "setup" menu under "Option". It is called "OSD Pop-up" and I selected "no audio info". On the 8100 remote the "display" button brings up the same information via OSD and I prefer it that way. You were right; thank you, sir. Found that in the settings and turned it off, much better now. I did confirm the chopping of the first fractional second of the next song (via digital coax). You have to have it on a song that starts out strong right away to notice it. Songs that slowly intro in are very difficult to detect it. |
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Post by harlan on Jan 23, 2017 11:02:53 GMT -5
So the weekend is over and I was able to call customer support. The gentleman I spoke with was fantastic. Although he was not able to help me directly he committed to getting answers and calling me back.
I felt like my concerns we important to him and not trivial.
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Post by Jim on Jan 23, 2017 11:10:03 GMT -5
So the weekend is over and I was able to call customer support. The gentleman I spoke with was fantastic. Although he was not able to help me directly he committed to getting answers and calling me back. I felt like my concerns we important to him and not trivial.  |
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Post by yves on Jan 23, 2017 14:07:13 GMT -5
To any Windows PC (or HTPC) user who is having the audio cutoff problem at the start of HDMI playback with ANY (i.e., not just by Emotiva...) processor or AVR product, the problem is called the "HDMI silent stream bug" (you can google it...), and the solution that works has been posted by someone named 0kk0 on Oct 14, 2015 8:09 AM (in response to eldrin) in this discussion thread: community.amd.com/thread/185767(Normally I wouldn't trust running a program like that on my PC due to lack of credentials, but the file came out 100% clean on VirusTotal, and I have been running it on my Asus laptop with Intel i7 4510U and Nvidia GeForce 820M running on Windows 8.1 that I have hooked up to my UMC-200, with no apparent issues for some months... it really does what the guy promises so IMO he deserves a cookie.  ) |
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Post by dmbaer on Jan 23, 2017 18:26:16 GMT -5
Can someone tell me, please, when the clock starts on the 30-day window? Is it the day your unit is delivered or the day it left Emotiva or something else?
30 days from the date your ordered it: emotiva.com/help/faqs/return-policy
Well, that better not be the case since it was over 30 days from the date of the order to the date of delivery. 
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Post by dmbaer on Jan 23, 2017 18:38:07 GMT -5
So the weekend is over and I was able to call customer support. The gentleman I spoke with was fantastic. Although he was not able to help me directly he committed to getting answers and calling me back. I felt like my concerns we important to him and not trivial. That's extremely encouraging to know. Normally, calling a company's tech support number would be the last thing I'd want to subject myself to.
Thanks for reporting your experience.
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Post by dmbaer on Jan 23, 2017 18:46:26 GMT -5
- OSD: when audio is interrupted, as mentioned above, the OSD pops up when re-synced. I haven't noticed the chopping so will need to pay closer attention to that, however - I only want the OSD to pop up when I press a button on the remote that should bring it up. When listening to a CD (via coax digital in), the OSD keeps popping up between tracks. When fast forwarding or rewinding on the DVR, OSD keeps popping up. Not what I prefer it to do.
I spotted an option to set OSD to full-on, non-audio-events-only or full-off. Since I couldn't see the OSD display in the first place, I couldn't experiment with this. Did you try setting it to non-audio-only and, if so, what was the result?
I unplugged my own unit and reverted to the previous unit for my wife's sake why I go out of town for a week - otherwise, I'd try this myself. I did discover that if there was no video signal, the OSD information did appear on the screen.
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Post by harlan on Jan 23, 2017 19:10:15 GMT -5
So the weekend is over and I was able to call customer support. The gentleman I spoke with was fantastic. Although he was not able to help me directly he committed to getting answers and calling me back. I felt like my concerns we important to him and not trivial. That's extremely encouraging to know. Normally, calling a company's tech support number would be the last thing I'd want to subject myself to.
Thanks for reporting your experience.
That was this morning......we will see how long it takes them to get back to me. So here I set trying to listen to Pandora streaming from my old tablet, then my new tablet then my phone and no joy. Plays each device for about 10 minutes and then the bluetooth (BTM1) disconnects. I have been using these devices for a long time with a different Bluetooth receiver and have never had this issue. I cant even go back to the Rocket I was using since it uses an optical input and that is tied up because I have to use that input for sound from my cable box. The HDMI inputs are not passing along the ausio stream or thats what the mc700 display is indicating. I guess my point is, Im kinda boxed in with my trivial issues. I have to choose between streaming music and watching TV. It does sound very pleasing though. For the record, I did not have these issues (HDMI) with my Pioneer Elite receiver. |
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Post by rbk123 on Jan 23, 2017 20:40:35 GMT -5
- OSD: when audio is interrupted, as mentioned above, the OSD pops up when re-synced. I haven't noticed the chopping so will need to pay closer attention to that, however - I only want the OSD to pop up when I press a button on the remote that should bring it up. When listening to a CD (via coax digital in), the OSD keeps popping up between tracks. When fast forwarding or rewinding on the DVR, OSD keeps popping up. Not what I prefer it to do.
I spotted an option to set OSD to full-on, non-audio-events-only or full-off. Since I couldn't see the OSD display in the first place, I couldn't experiment with this. Did you try setting it to non-audio-only and, if so, what was the result?
Worked like a champ. Another poster pointed it out to me earlier and it works just like you/he suggested, thanks. The only thing is I liked the info that is supplied by that audio-event OSD pop-up more than the info that is supplied when you hit the Info button on the remote. |
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Post by avalon on Jan 23, 2017 23:42:14 GMT -5
Exactly.... And songs that have a second or two of dithered silence before the song starts play perfectly..... And, whenever I've manually edited audio, I ALWAYS leave a second or two of "silent lead-in" on each song, and the editing program dithers everything, including the lead-in, so no problem. You will also find that many players have an option they call "fade tracks" - which is nominally intended to fade one track out and the next one in - with a slight overlap. However, fading two tracks requires that they be played at the same sample rate. If you select this option, but specify a "0 second fade" there will be no fade in/out or overlap, but the player will be forced to play everything at the same sample rate, with no cadence breaks, and there should be no mute gaps. I believe some ripping programs have an option to automatically insert a second of silence before each track (I don't know if they dither it or not), but many do not. Because I play almost entirely ripped or downloaded content, if I were to notice a specific song where the beginning was clipped off, I would just pop open my favorite editor and add a one-second lead-in track of dithered silence to those songs. Note that, with a lossless file, if you add a second of silence, and then RE-DITHER the entire file, you will cause a nominal loss of quality - because it will have been dithered twice. What you want to do is to create a separate file with one second of dithered silence, then edit that file into the beginning of your problematic file, and then re-save with with DITHER OFF. With most editors, this should retain the original file as bit-perfect, but add the one second dithered lead in to it. Keith
With all due respect and deference this does nothing to solve the sync delay cut-off issue identified to exist between the Emotiva ERC-3 CD player and the MC700.
Rather, in my humble opinion, what you propose is simply a workaround for those playing ripped digital audio libraries. I myself ripped the vast majority of my >1TB music library to losses audio nearly 10 years ago. I have no intention of re-editing every single track in that library to resolve a timing issue associated with a preamp's chipset.
I'm not here to bash Emotiva. I deeply respect and admire the company. I have spent several thousands of dollars on Emotiva gear and am very happy with the vast majority of it. I purchased an MC700 to replace a $2000 Onkyo preamp that was feature bloated and took too much space in my primary listening room. I reported my findings to: 1. see if there were any known solutions and 2. determine if the problems were fixable with a firmware update.
Given the proposed solution to PCM sync delay appears to be adding a moment of silence to a file to compensate for the processor, I believe I have my answer to #2.
I understand the need for design compromises at the price point but, despite the lengthy (and much appreciated) technical explanation provided earlier in this thread, I have never experienced this type of sync delay with any other product except the UMC-200. This includes the following Preamps and receivers: Sony TA-1000ESD ca. 1989 Sony TA-2000ESD ca. 1992 Sony TA-E9000ES ca. 1998 Onkyo PRSC 5508 ca. 2010 Marantz SR7005 ca. 2011 Onkyo PRSC 5509 ca. 2013 Denon AVR-4520CI ca. 2014 Onkyo low end receiver used in my garage that cost $180 new.
That said, I appreciate the honesty of this forum and although it appears I will be returning my MC700, I will continue to consider Emotiva products in the future.
I would add that I experienced ZERO issues with my X-Box One S 4K UHD system and the MC7000. They worked flawlessly together.
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Post by cwt on Jan 24, 2017 6:44:44 GMT -5
Given the proposed solution to PCM sync delay appears to be adding a moment of silence to a file to compensate for the processor, I believe I have my answer to #2. Not waiting for the firmware update Avalon ? Cant say what will be addressed by the firmware update but emo have in the past changed the muting timing for the hdmi [ maybe the sp/dif as well ?]for the xmc1 iirc . As has been said its a trade off with pops and clicks from different codec switching as well so can understand if you want better sync . Is it any better if you skip back to the start of the track after the start ? |
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Post by millst on Jan 24, 2017 11:09:39 GMT -5
Please, it's not fixed on the XMC-1. It still functions worse than entry level receivers. Why expect anything different for the MC700? Either you live with this Emotiva quirk or return.
-tm
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