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Post by bluemeanies on Mar 30, 2017 17:29:17 GMT -5
They are very nice looking and well made.
However, in my situation I am using the speaker spikes and I also purchased two sub-dude isolation platforms from SWEETWATER. The cost was $60.00 per platform still a lot cheaper than the GAIA.
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Post by Axis on Mar 30, 2017 17:56:03 GMT -5
Everyone that thinks this is snake oil just remember who told you about them so you can thank me when you figure out that hockey pucks are not the end game for sitting your speakers on.  |
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Post by Axis on Mar 30, 2017 20:23:57 GMT -5
Here is someone reputable that likes them. This is from IsoAcoustics site.  Harry Weisfeld Founder, VPI Industries IsoAcoustics was pleased to be invited to one of VPI Industries’ listening rooms to demo the GAIA I’s under a pair of KEF Blades. Harry Weisfeld, founder of VPI Industries and Dipinjeet Sehdev of KEF America immediately heard tighter bass, more clarity and a wider soundstage. Harry Weisfeld later said: “Installing the GAIA isolators on my KEF Blades gave the biggest improvement in sound I have ever heard on the system. Better than changing cables or electronics, the noise floor was lower, the focus was better, and the bass went deeper. All around a total success.” |
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Post by pknaz on Mar 30, 2017 20:47:35 GMT -5
I'm in the snake oil camp.
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Post by vneal on Mar 31, 2017 2:12:50 GMT -5
Lio Ekans pucks work the best
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nrde
Minor Hero
Posts: 62 
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Post by nrde on Mar 31, 2017 4:21:47 GMT -5
Dynaudio supplies them with there studio monitors. Beats headphones were supplied with HTC smartphones few years back didn't make Beats any better. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 31, 2017 4:25:09 GMT -5
The speaker-floor interface depends on your FLOOR - not your speakers. And, curiously, it has little or nothing to do with either anchoring or isolating your speakers. After all, speakers large enough to power auditoriums & stadiums are often mounted on rollers. Why? Because it makes them easy to move AND because their mass is sufficiently high that the movements of the speaker cones are not able to move the speaker (even on the rollers).
For heavily carpeted floors, I normally use spikes. Why? Because it makes the speaker less likely to tip over.
For bare floors, I normally use either Teflon or rubber feet. Why? Because it makes the speaker easier to move without marking or damaging the floor.
I've previously tried fancy spikes & cones, glides, and even hockey pucks (really). Audible difference = zero (to my ears - in my room).
As to the tuned isolators under discussion - my guess would be that they won't do any harm - but they won't make any audible improvement either. Even if they change the sound very slightly, I'd suspect it's more of a case of "different" rather than "better." I'd also suspect that any "different" would be so small as to be inaudible in the mythical double-blind test.
So that's my two cents - and as always, I could be wrong...
Boomzilla
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Post by sebastianr on Mar 31, 2017 5:00:55 GMT -5
Lio Ekans pucks work the best Now those sound interesting, ... and a little slippery!  |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 7:28:19 GMT -5
The speaker-floor interface depends on your FLOOR - not your speakers. And, curiously, it has little or nothing to do with either anchoring or isolating your speakers. After all, speakers large enough to power auditoriums & stadiums are often mounted on rollers. Why? Because it makes them easy to move AND because their mass is sufficiently high that the movements of the speaker cones are not able to move the speaker (even on the rollers). For heavily carpeted floors, I normally use spikes. Why? Because it makes the speaker less likely to tip over. For bare floors, I normally use either Teflon or rubber feet. Why? Because it makes the speaker easier to move without marking or damaging the floor. I've previously tried fancy spikes & cones, glides, and even hockey pucks (really). Audible difference = zero (to my ears - in my room). As to the tuned isolators under discussion - my guess would be that they won't do any harm - but they won't make any audible improvement either. Even if they change the sound very slightly, I'd suspect it's more of a case of "different" rather than "better." I'd also suspect that any "different" would be so small as to be inaudible in the mythical double-blind test. So that's my two cents - and as always, I could be wrong... Boomzilla I'm trying to help you and others here Boom. I watch you and others parse things around here that do not matter at all like it is life and death. You fight over things you can not hear. I know something that you do not and I have been trying to tease you guys into looking into this. Do not take my word for it. Be skeptical. I love that about you Boom. These isolators work better on your concrete floor than they would on other surfaces. You want a solid connection and not a fluffy connection when you use them. I know something you do not. I know that they improve the sound. It is not a matter of make believe. Go find out and you will be pleasantly surprised. How many things do you see me push as improvement around here Boom. I am the downer around here and could tell many here all the time that they are on the wrong track. All this Audio stuff is common sense. KeithL is good at putting that common sense into crazy cool technical words. Put your speakers on some rollers if you need to roll them around. Use Carpet spikes on carpet to anchor your speakers. Use those round steel things under your spikes on wood or hard floors so you do not damage your floors. "I've previously tried fancy spikes & cones, glides, and even hockey pucks (really). Audible difference = zero (to my ears - in my room)." Try these isolators. Little secrete just between you and me. I already did and they work. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 9:43:41 GMT -5
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 31, 2017 10:22:25 GMT -5
Hi Axis - First, let me thank you for trying to straighten me out. Heaven knows, I do need straightening out from time to time. Or, as my wife puts it, I take the cake. And, in fact, I've been taking the cake for quite a long time. But my issues with what you're telling me are as follows: 1. These puppies cost $160 a pair (on sale). This isn't a lot of money, but it's more than I'd give a bum begging on the corner. 2. The theory makes no sense to me. Either speakers should be anchored to the floor to absolutely prevent movement, or they shouldn't. If the former, then spikes should do the job. If not, then there should be no difference between carpet, rubber feet, teflon glides, or rollers. What I DO see your recommended stands doing (that SHOULD make a huge difference in sound) is changing the vertical height of the speakers. And have no doubt, it's a scientific FACT that vertical height changes (or even changes in the fore-aft tilt of the speaker) can have HUGE effects at the listening position. So is it the physics of the support making the perceived change that you claim, or is it the height difference? I'd suspect the latter. 3. If I risk my money, and decide that they aren't worth it, I'm out the entire purchase price. The resale value of "magical audio devices" hovers consistently (and for a reason) near zero. I can't return them for a refund. My audio amigo, Axis, isn't going to pay me back. I can't resell them but for a fraction (10% - ?) of what I paid for them. 4. There's a bunch of "testimonials" on the Sweetwater site about how effective the things are at "opening up the sound." But are those changes due to the effect I listed above in No. 2? Further, are those changes really "better," or are they just "different?" Many listeners, in my experience, can't tell between the two. 5. Because the isolators made a positive difference in your system (and here, I'm conceding a LOT in assuming that your opinion is honest, accurate, not influenced by expectation bias, and that you can truly tell between a mere audible difference and a real improvement), there's no assurance that the same gadgets will make a similar difference in my system. What's different? Your speakers aren't mine. Your room isn't mine. Your associated components aren't mine. Your listening preferences may not be mine. The parts of the listening experience that you value (imaging, bass response, treble level, etc.) may not be the same as mine. And your ears would certainly measure differently (better OR worse - who knows?) than mine. So forgive me my skepticism, but the only thing you actually know that I don't is that to you - in your room - with your equipment - and to your ears - these things work. But that isn't the same as saying that they'll work for me. Now the above stance invalidates virtually ALL audio reviewing (including mine). So all that anyone can ultimately do is to say what their own responses are to a given component. You've done that, and I commend you. But all the above limitations still apply. Cordially - Boomzilla |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 10:42:33 GMT -5
Hi Axis - First, let me thank you for trying to straighten me out. Heaven knows, I do need straightening out from time to time. Or, as my wife puts it, I take the cake. And, in fact, I've been taking the cake for quite a long time. But my issues with what you're telling me are as follows: 1. These puppies cost $160 a pair (on sale). This isn't a lot of money, but it's more than I'd give a bum begging on the corner. 2. The theory makes no sense to me. Either speakers should be anchored to the floor to absolutely prevent movement, or they shouldn't. If the former, then spikes should do the job. If not, then there should be no difference between carpet, rubber feet, teflon glides, or rollers. What I DO see your recommended stands doing (that SHOULD make a huge difference in sound) is changing the vertical height of the speakers. And have no doubt, it's a scientific FACT that vertical height changes (or even changes in the fore-aft tilt of the speaker) can have HUGE effects at the listening position. So is it the physics of the support making the perceived change that you claim, or is it the height difference? I'd suspect the latter. 3. If I risk my money, and decide that they aren't worth it, I'm out the entire purchase price. The resale value of "magical audio devices" hovers consistently (and for a reason) near zero. I can't return them for a refund. My audio amigo, Axis, isn't going to pay me back. I can't resell them but for a fraction (10% - ?) of what I paid for them. 4. There's a bunch of "testimonials" on the Sweetwater site about how effective the things are at "opening up the sound." But are those changes due to the effect I listed above in No. 2? Further, are those changes really "better," or are they just "different?" Many listeners, in my experience, can't tell between the two. 5. Because the isolators made a positive difference in your system (and here, I'm conceding a LOT in assuming that your opinion is honest, accurate, not influenced by expectation bias, and that you can truly tell between a mere audible difference and a real improvement), there's no assurance that the same gadgets will make a similar difference in my system. What's different? Your speakers aren't mine. Your room isn't mine. Your associated components aren't mine. Your listening preferences may not be mine. The parts of the listening experience that you value (imaging, bass response, treble level, etc.) may not be the same as mine. And your ears would certainly measure differently (better OR worse - who knows?) than mine. So forgive me my skepticism, but the only thing you actually know that I don't is that to you - in your room - with your equipment - and to your ears - these things work. But that isn't the same as saying that they'll work for me. Now the above stance invalidates virtually ALL audio reviewing (including mine). So all that anyone can ultimately do is to say what their own responses are to a given component. You've done that, and I commend you. But all the above limitations still apply. Cordially - Boomzilla Oh it's different. You could not pay me not to use them with my Airmotiv monitors. Mine are the all cast aluminum model for $200 a pair. This is what both you and Nick should be using with your LS50's. The sound does change and many report as I did that the bass seemed to' decrease when you first hear your speakers on them but the bass becomes more defined and accurate. It does not kill the bass. The imaging is noticeable better. The mids and highs benefit also. This a sound improvement that everyone can get. Your world is the same as mine. If everybody that you can spend days finding reports on the internet of improvement then the you should too. You can buy on the internet and return in 30 days just about anything on the planet. Click buy here and if you can not get your money back I will buy them from you. www.sweetwater.com/store/detail/ApertaBkSwettwater Return policy "No Hassle" Return Policy: We want you to be completely happy with your purchase. If you are not satisfied with any product, for any reason, you may return it for a refund of the purchase price, an in-house credit, or exchange for another product within a fair amount of time from the shipping date (usually 30 days). If your purchase was eligible for free shipping, the shipping cost will be deducted from your credit or refund. |
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Post by bluemeanies on Mar 31, 2017 10:46:50 GMT -5
Hi Axis - First, let me thank you for trying to straighten me out. Heaven knows, I do need straightening out from time to time. Or, as my wife puts it, I take the cake. And, in fact, I've been taking the cake for quite a long time. But my issues with what you're telling me are as follows: 1. These puppies cost $160 a pair (on sale). This isn't a lot of money, but it's more than I'd give a bum begging on the corner. 2. The theory makes no sense to me. Either speakers should be anchored to the floor to absolutely prevent movement, or they shouldn't. If the former, then spikes should do the job. If not, then there should be no difference between carpet, rubber feet, teflon glides, or rollers. What I DO see your recommended stands doing (that SHOULD make a huge difference in sound) is changing the vertical height of the speakers. And have no doubt, it's a scientific FACT that vertical height changes (or even changes in the fore-aft tilt of the speaker) can have HUGE effects at the listening position. So is it the physics of the support making the perceived change that you claim, or is it the height difference? I'd suspect the latter. 3. If I risk my money, and decide that they aren't worth it, I'm out the entire purchase price. The resale value of "magical audio devices" hovers consistently (and for a reason) near zero. I can't return them for a refund. My audio amigo, Axis, isn't going to pay me back. I can't resell them but for a fraction (10% - ?) of what I paid for them. 4. There's a bunch of "testimonials" on the Sweetwater site about how effective the things are at "opening up the sound." But are those changes due to the effect I listed above in No. 2? Further, are those changes really "better," or are they just "different?" Many listeners, in my experience, can't tell between the two. 5. Because the isolators made a positive difference in your system (and here, I'm conceding a LOT in assuming that your opinion is honest, accurate, not influenced by expectation bias, and that you can truly tell between a mere audible difference and a real improvement), there's no assurance that the same gadgets will make a similar difference in my system. What's different? Your speakers aren't mine. Your room isn't mine. Your associated components aren't mine. Your listening preferences may not be mine. The parts of the listening experience that you value (imaging, bass response, treble level, etc.) may not be the same as mine. And your ears would certainly measure differently (better OR worse - who knows?) than mine. So forgive me my skepticism, but the only thing you actually know that I don't is that to you - in your room - with your equipment - and to your ears - these things work. But that isn't the same as saying that they'll work for me. Now the above stance invalidates virtually ALL audio reviewing (including mine). So all that anyone can ultimately do is to say what their own responses are to a given component. You've done that, and I commend you. But all the above limitations still apply. Cordially - Boomzilla I agree and disagree with your remarks Boom but my wife has similar tastes on quotes as your wife....therefore I am another piece of that cake. My 803diamonds were orginally on a padded, carpeted cement floor with utilizing the spikes that came with the speakers. Talking to another forum member here and looking at his setup I noticed his B&W's were on some kind of platform. I asked him what they were and he told me they were sub-dude platforms that can be used for subwoofers and speakers. He did respond that they made a difference with his listening experience. So, I followed the leader here but had the option of returning the sub-dudes which I purchased thru SWEETWATER. I was glad I made the purchase. Granted I had concrete floors and that can be a HUGE flaw for speakers. The apparatus that axis presented were very appealing to the eye but at what cost? To rich for my blood when there are other devices out there. I like the setup in the picture of the KEF with the GAIA especially with the (glass or plexiglas) Also lets remember those KEFS were in a professional listening room where even the books were strategicly placed. Conclusion...I have to overall agree with axis since I was in part experimenting and feel the end result was more positive experience with MY 2channel systems. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 11:09:10 GMT -5
I would love to see Boom get a pair of the desktop stands and report his findings here.  I have said I do not know about the GAIA pucks yet but they are on the way here. I will report my findings here. I been plugging these stands for years here and I have only seen a couple people say anything here about them and it was all positive. I understand this place and how people think here and this is snake oil free zone with very money conservative folks. You don't have to take my word but I am actually just trying to share something I learned to improve sound. I probably need to take a break but a saw someone post that that had there desktop speakers on a 1" thick piece of foam and thought I would try a big bold campaign to spread the good word about a solution to isolate those nasty sounds that come from vibrations. If you have some small speakers sitting on just about any desk or furniture there is bound to be those vibrations. The kicker is that these things really work and not only stop the vibrations but improve the sound. You have to put you speakers on them to find out for yourself. That's how it works. |
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Post by monkumonku on Mar 31, 2017 11:12:54 GMT -5
I take it that the overarching goal here is to eliminate vibrations being transmitted from the speaker to the surface upon which it sits, correct? Without commenting on the IsoAcoustics products or any other product designed to reduce vibrations, I just wanted to say that this is what I am currently using. I put them under my speakers, then under the speaker stand, and also under the sub, and have some under my other equipment. They seem to work fine and they only cost $21.60 for a box of 48. They don't look very attractive but for me it is function over form. www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8 |
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nrde
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by nrde on Mar 31, 2017 11:13:25 GMT -5
Whatever rises speakers from a reflecting surface tend to improve the sound at least slightly. Did any of these people try any other method or isolators before trying these? People have a tendency to praise their choice even if it's not the best one (post-purchase rationalization). In general I don't trust any buyer reviews, only when the reviewer can back his review up with test environment and methology. Also one thing I don't understand, if these "isolators" improve the sound so much as you indicate, why aren't every single manufacturer bundling them with their speakers? It would make a lot more sense to bundle a diffusor or acoustic panels as those would make a real difference to the sound. I remain to have an opinion that unless the sound differences are measurable with a blind test there is none. Otherwise the difference is between the listeners ears. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 31, 2017 11:20:44 GMT -5
I would love to see Boom get a pair of the desktop stands and report his findings here. I have said I do not know about the GAIA pucks yet but they are on the way here. I will report my findings here. I been plugging these stands for years here and I have only seen a couple people say anything here about them and it was all positive. I understand this place and how people think here and this is snake oil free zone with very money conservative folks. You don't have to take my word but I am actually just trying to share something I learned to improve sound. I probably need to take a break but a saw someone post that that had there desktop speakers on a 1" thick piece of foam and thought I would try a big bold campaign to spread the good word about a solution to isolate those nasty sounds that come from vibrations. If you have some small speakers sitting on just about any desk or furniture there is bound to be those vibrations. The kicker is that these things really work and not only stop the vibrations but improve the sound. You have to put you speakers on them to find out for yourself. That's how it works. Best to take a break, don't know if the product works or not, but you will beat yourself to death trying to convince anyone of anythimg on this forum😊 |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 11:23:03 GMT -5
I take it that the overarching goal here is to eliminate vibrations being transmitted from the speaker to the surface upon which it sits, correct? Without commenting on the IsoAcoustics products or any other product designed to reduce vibrations, I just wanted to say that this is what I am currently using. I put them under my speakers, then under the speaker stand, and also under the sub, and have some under my other equipment. They seem to work fine and they only cost $21.60 for a box of 48. They don't look very attractive but for me it is function over form. www.supplyhouse.com/DiversiTech-MP-2E-EVA-Anti-Vibration-Pad-2-x-2-x-7-8I got my sub on one of those big subdudes and I would have my desktop speaker on a quality product like you are using if I did not know about the ISO's. Absolutely reducing vibrations is what you want to do. I am staking my name and saying there is a improvement to be had over foam. I promise when you hear your speakers on these stands that it will not be this faint maybe, you can't really hear the difference like a UPA-2 and a XPA-2. You will hear a difference and you will like that difference. |
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Post by Axis on Mar 31, 2017 11:24:35 GMT -5
I would love to see Boom get a pair of the desktop stands and report his findings here. I have said I do not know about the GAIA pucks yet but they are on the way here. I will report my findings here. I been plugging these stands for years here and I have only seen a couple people say anything here about them and it was all positive. I understand this place and how people think here and this is snake oil free zone with very money conservative folks. You don't have to take my word but I am actually just trying to share something I learned to improve sound. I probably need to take a break but a saw someone post that that had there desktop speakers on a 1" thick piece of foam and thought I would try a big bold campaign to spread the good word about a solution to isolate those nasty sounds that come from vibrations. If you have some small speakers sitting on just about any desk or furniture there is bound to be those vibrations. The kicker is that these things really work and not only stop the vibrations but improve the sound. You have to put you speakers on them to find out for yourself. That's how it works. Best to take a break, don't know if the product works or not, but you will beat yourself to death trying to convince anyone of anythimg on this forum😊 It's worth it to try and convince. That's mostly what happens here. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 31, 2017 11:35:58 GMT -5
OK - Not too much cost - easy to return if ineffective.
I'll try them - but NOT immediately. I'm already in the process of adding an analog front end. Too many changes simultaneously make it difficult to identify what changed what.
In a few months, I'll get back.
Boom
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