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Post by garbulky on Apr 5, 2017 16:01:51 GMT -5
Thank GOD! The XPA-1 is one of the most perfect amplifiers I can think of. Huge power. Class A, fully balanced. Large capacitance. Big torroidal transformer. What else out there can match it (the specs at least) at the price? I wish the the lighter m version the best of luck but I'm glad the XPA-1 gen 2 will stay for the time being. Garbulky, what if these XPA-1m Gen 3 Fully balanced quad differential blades out perform the XPA-1. Maybe even though they do not have all the Class A at first the "Super quiet, fast and powerful" that Dan speaks of with the new power supply may give it the edge. If it does, then it would make sense to purchase it. But I'll stick with getting a second pair of gen 2 for bi amping! |
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Post by leonski on Apr 5, 2017 16:02:25 GMT -5
From a technical standpoint, measuring the current flow vs. the voltage output to calculate the impedance can be done. But here is the rub. Since all speakers have wildly varying impedances based on the frequency and level of the incoming signal. The meters whether digital or analog would be jumping all over the place so fast that it would make you sick. Thus, all metering on audio gear has a time weighted average circuit in it to slow things down to a point where we can get the gist of what is going on. So to say you want accurate metering sounds really cool in theory, but in real life, its not so much. If you want to get an idea of this, just hook up a scope to the output of an amp and watch the wave form. Things are happening way to fast for us to take it all in and after a very short time, it just becomes noise on the screen. Thats why we have to adjust the time base on a scope so we can look at what is pertinent.
Just food for thought.
Lonnie
Isn't that pretty much what I said?
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Post by redcoat23 on Apr 5, 2017 17:06:40 GMT -5
Thank GOD! The XPA-1 is one of the most perfect amplifiers I can think of. Huge power. Class A, fully balanced. Large capacitance. Big torroidal transformer. What else out there can match it (the specs at least) at the price? I wish the the lighter m version the best of luck but I'm glad the XPA-1 gen 2 will stay for the time being. I'm with you  As a fairly simple man, I like my $1k+ electronic purchases to be heavy, that way I can delude myself it's valuable because it is heavy. Now if the switched mode power supply is just as good - fantastic, but I'd always say to myself upon moving it. "Shouldn't this be heavier for the price...?"  |
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Post by jmilton on Apr 5, 2017 17:26:12 GMT -5
"Isn't that pretty much what I said?"
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You lacked panache.
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Post by wrinklemash on Apr 5, 2017 17:28:49 GMT -5
Garbulky, what if these XPA-1m Gen 3 Fully balanced quad differential blades out perform the XPA-1. Maybe even though they do not have all the Class A at first the "Super quiet, fast and powerful" that Dan speaks of with the new power supply may give it the edge. If it does, then it would make sense to purchase it. But I'll stick with getting a second pair of gen 2 for bi amping! Wow! Start a thread, go away for a few days, Big Dan confirms and then Lonnie chimes in, and BOOM! Big Dan and Lonnie - thanks for the confirmation. I am looking forward to the XPA-1m Gen3. Relative to the XPA-1 Gen2, I am not too upset about loosing Class A along with the power draw and heat that goes with it. The Gen2 amps, as great as they are, just don't fit my needs. The Gen1 amps did sans the Class A, heat and constant power draw. A fair trad-off. Also,having just moved, I do appreciate the idea that the new amps will be lighter. My only real concern is their physical size. I do hope the XPA-1m Gen3 is dimensionally smaller than the XPA-1 Gen1 and Gen2 and the current Gen3 modular chassis. I hope they are not as tall, and not as deep. An even fairer trade-off. And yes, the LED or analog meters are for show and sales. Yes they present averaged outputs, and yes, they just give you an idea of what the amp is doing.... but I still want meters. I greatly prefer analog meters, they are just more elegant and less utilitarian than a row of LEDs. For a product in this price range, $1199 I think, the LED meter just seems a bit out of place.... Kind of like a last generation Corvette that looked fantastic on the outside, but the interior not so much. This said, a meter consisting of a row of LEDs is still cool, I guess, relative to nothing. And it would be a complete aesthetic match to the modular XPA Gen3 Chassis, However, this member of the mono-block society (XPA-100 x 3 for me) wants a little extra exclusiveness since I will shell out extra $$$ for a pair or trio of chassis with separate power supplies, instead of a single chassis of amp modules with one power supply, that admittedly do the same thing 99% of the time. I am paying to have the best in that extra 1% of the time, I want the item I paid for to look the part too. A top of the line/range product needs something outwardly extra to distinguish it from its product line brethren. The something extra needs to be noticeable, honest and tangible. Not a "Biaritz" badge and extra faux wood adornment added to a 1976 Cadillac Eldorado. Something that is obvious and visually differentiates it adds to the value proposition of the product. At its price (times two or three), the whole "product package" needs to blow us away - not just the SQ, engineering specs and performance which are a veritable given from Emotiva. - Wrinklemash |
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Post by wrinklemash on Apr 5, 2017 17:37:51 GMT -5
Thank GOD! The XPA-1 is one of the most perfect amplifiers I can think of. Huge power. Class A, fully balanced. Large capacitance. Big torroidal transformer. What else out there can match it (the specs at least) at the price? I wish the the lighter m version the best of luck but I'm glad the XPA-1 gen 2 will stay for the time being. I'm with you As a fairly simple man, I like my $1k+ electronic purchases to be heavy, that way I can delude myself it's valuable because it is heavy. Now if the switched mode power supply is just as good - fantastic, but I'd always say to myself upon moving it. "Shouldn't this be heavier for the price...?" I followed your logic until I moved recently. I'd gladly trade an analog meter, compactness and less weight for the Class A, heat, standby power consumption and mass of the Gen2 so long as I get outstanding audible performance. IMO - an "Emotiva blue" analog meter is a suitable delusional device too. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 5, 2017 18:00:32 GMT -5
Hhmmm, why doesn't someone just invent a fancy Kilo-Watt Mater that goes in between the amplifier and its power and be done with it? Or go to the other end and invent a nice SPL Meter?
Personally, I I want is Actionable Information displays in this area. Give me a Peak-Hold Red LED that comes on when the Amplifier's Soft Clip circuitry is activated. Or, if protecting your Speaker Coils, etc. is what your game is, a Temperature Meter on the relevant Speaker Components (or the same on the Amplifier).
Amplifier Power Meters are "cute" but mostly will be fluttering down in the weeds even when you're driving the Amplifiers hard.
It would be way more interesting if we were talking about Bass Control (mostly Damping Factor according to Keith), Noise Immunity, Feedback, etc. I.e. how well it's going to do its job ...
Casey
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Post by novisnick on Apr 5, 2017 18:55:29 GMT -5
Hhmmm, why doesn't someone just invent a fancy Kilo-Watt Mater that goes in between the amplifier and its power and be done with it? Or go to the other end and invent a nice SPL Meter? Personally, I I want is Actionable Information displays in this area. Give me a Peak-Hold Red LED that comes on when the Amplifier's Soft Clip circuitry is activated. Or, if protecting your Speaker Coils, etc. is what your game is, a Temperature Meter on the relevant Speaker Components (or the same on the Amplifier). Amplifier Power Meters are "cute" but mostly will be fluttering down in the weeds even when you're driving the Amplifiers hard. It would be way more interesting if we were talking about Bass Control (mostly Damping Factor according to Keith), Noise Immunity, Feedback, etc. I.e. how well it's going to do its job ... Casey And sometimes I just like for her to look pretty and not say a word or do anything requiring though or feedback. |
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Post by leonski on Apr 6, 2017 0:17:19 GMT -5
From a technical standpoint, measuring the current flow vs. the voltage output to calculate the impedance can be done. But here is the rub. Since all speakers have wildly varying impedances based on the frequency and level of the incoming signal. The meters whether digital or analog would be jumping all over the place so fast that it would make you sick. Thus, all metering on audio gear has a time weighted average circuit in it to slow things down to a point where we can get the gist of what is going on. So to say you want accurate metering sounds really cool in theory, but in real life, its not so much. If you want to get an idea of this, just hook up a scope to the output of an amp and watch the wave form. Things are happening way to fast for us to take it all in and after a very short time, it just becomes noise on the screen. Thats why we have to adjust the time base on a scope so we can look at what is pertinent. Just food for thought. Lonnie Thanks so much lonnie for such great information. Now that im applying actual science to my request it makes perfect sense! What would it take/cost to be able to adjust the sensitivity of the meters with a time weighted average? This would allow a better correlation between response and speaker load. Maybe,,,,, Simple adjustments. Meter 'ballistics' is a known art. See the article I linked from Elliot Sound Products. As for accuracy? Forgetaboutit. Speakers are Anything BUT resistive. They'll either look mainly like a capacitor or an inductor,(to the amp) and different at every frequency, at that. McinTosh meters have 2 scales, one calibrated in db, the other in watts. 0db is maximum rated amp power. The meter usually will also go to +3db, or double the amps rated power. Meters? Fun to watch? maybe. Accurate? not a chance. |
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