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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2017 14:08:27 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain?
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Post by ÈlTwo on Apr 21, 2017 14:12:37 GMT -5
the SSD sounds really appealing with the 10 year warranty and the obvious HUGE speed increase over my current drive! I will probably go that direction. It makes sense and will probably last through some more upgrade cycles as well. Now question. You know how Windows puts your "downloads" and pictures and documents all on the C drive? Since the SSD is just the boot drive, is there a way to tell it to stop that mess and put it on my slower 2 TV hard drive instead? Yes, that is exactly what I do, just use the SSD, as the C drive, for booting, and to run my browser, everything else is saved on my spinning hard drive. It's all arranged in the settings, and whenever you install a program, don't accept the defaults. For instance, I have a bunch of Steam games, and I always change the path from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ to D:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ (actually d:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ - because I always forget to capitalize). Do the same thing with all my other program files, my downloads, music, pictures. I have a 256 GB SSD, and it's not even close to filling up. If you REALLY need a PCI slot, perhaps you should check out this board: ASRock H270 Pro4
While you can get boards with better audio onboard, they are more expensive.
ASRock Z270 GAMING I7
The older board I'm currently using has Creative Sound Core3D Audio built in
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Post by ÈlTwo on Apr 21, 2017 14:17:21 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain? Don't do that! Put the OS on the SSD, remember, you're not storing data there (and hopefully you're backing up data away from the machine). As long as you're installing at least 8GB of RAM, the paging file should not be a concern. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Apr 21, 2017 14:20:55 GMT -5
I should one day post a video on how fast my rig boots up. No one will believe it if I just told you.  UEFI and an SSD are your friends. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2017 14:31:36 GMT -5
the SSD sounds really appealing with the 10 year warranty and the obvious HUGE speed increase over my current drive! I will probably go that direction. It makes sense and will probably last through some more upgrade cycles as well. Now question. You know how Windows puts your "downloads" and pictures and documents all on the C drive? Since the SSD is just the boot drive, is there a way to tell it to stop that mess and put it on my slower 2 TV hard drive instead? Yes, that is exactly what I do, just use the SSD, as the C drive, for booting, and to run my browser, everything else is saved on my spinning hard drive. It's all arranged in the settings, and whenever you install a program, don't accept the defaults. For instance, I have a bunch of Steam games, and I always change the path from: C:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ to D:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ (actually d:\Program Files (x86)\Steam\steamapps\ - because I always forget to capitalize). Do the same thing with all my other program files, my downloads, music, pictures. I have a 256 GB SSD, and it's not even close to filling up. If you REALLY need a PCI slot, perhaps you should check out this board: ASRock H270 Pro4
While you can get boards with better audio onboard, they are more expensive.
ASRock Z270 GAMING I7
The older board I'm currently using has Creative Sound Core3D Audio built in
Actually what you linked would be perfect! It's even the ATX size which is what I need and the PCI slot is at the bottom away from the main graphics card slot. |
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs 
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 21, 2017 14:32:30 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain? Correct. Your SSD should also come with a utility that will let you monitor disc health. With any Solid State memory, including SSDs, the built in controller will assure that all the locations on the disc are written to equally. There is no need to defragment the disc. Once a bit becomes unusable it gets flagged by the controller and taken out of service. A used bit shouldn't fail; only when it's written to (there are only so many times a SS bit can be turned). The utility will tell you not only disc health but how many "dead" bits on the drive. Rarely would one catastrophically fail and be totally unusable without warning. So, as you see available space go down/dead bits go up it means to get on your horse and backup/clone your drive and replace it. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2017 14:45:14 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain? Correct. Your SSD should also come with a utility that will let you monitor disc health. With any Solid State memory, including SSDs, the built in controller will assure that all the locations on the disc are written to equally. There is no need to defragment the disc. Once a bit becomes unusable it gets flagged by the controller and taken out of service. A used bit shouldn't fail; only when it's written to (there are only so many times a SS bit can be turned). The utility will tell you not only disc health but how many "dead" bits on the drive. Rarely would one catastrophically fail and be totally unusable without warning. So, as you see available space go down/dead bits go up it means to get on your horse and backup/clone your drive and replace it. I actually like this idea. It means that you get a warning period. While with a mechanical hard drive failure, it can just blink out in an instant losing everything. Hmmm....So READS don't really affect their life span huh? |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Apr 21, 2017 15:00:42 GMT -5
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Post by brubacca on Apr 21, 2017 15:07:11 GMT -5
When you install anything Windows 7 amd newer on a SSD it knows that you are using a SSD. There are several optkmisations the OS takes to not kill your SSD. I don't remember them specifically, but it may not utilize a pagefile.
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stiehl11
Emo VIPs
Give me available light!
Posts: 7,269
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Post by stiehl11 on Apr 21, 2017 15:28:43 GMT -5
Correct. Your SSD should also come with a utility that will let you monitor disc health. With any Solid State memory, including SSDs, the built in controller will assure that all the locations on the disc are written to equally. There is no need to defragment the disc. Once a bit becomes unusable it gets flagged by the controller and taken out of service. A used bit shouldn't fail; only when it's written to (there are only so many times a SS bit can be turned). The utility will tell you not only disc health but how many "dead" bits on the drive. Rarely would one catastrophically fail and be totally unusable without warning. So, as you see available space go down/dead bits go up it means to get on your horse and backup/clone your drive and replace it. I actually like this idea. It means that you get a warning period. While with a mechanical hard drive failure, it can just blink out in an instant losing everything. Hmmm....So READS don't really affect their life span huh? Correct, reading does not "wear" down an SSD. Only when you turn a bit. |
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nrde
Minor Hero
Posts: 62 
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Post by nrde on Apr 21, 2017 16:39:10 GMT -5
So what I want: Internet browsing. 4k video - mainly youtube - for my job and entertainment. Printing for my music teaching Booting relatively fast - my current PC takes about 4 minutes to be useful. I don't expect performance in the seconds, but something faster than that. Hmm, my lengthy reply disappeared? Well that was 15 minutes of my life wasted because of technology. well short version. (I don't know US prices so they are estimates) - motherboard ASROCK AB350M Pro4, AMD B350 (100$) - cpu amd Ryzen 5 1600x (250$) - 8-16GB DDR4 2400 (60-100$) - SSD SAMSUNG 850 Evo Series SSD M.2, 500GB, or 250GB, (100-150$) - AMD 570 or Nvidia 1060 (200-270$) reuse old case and hard drive. M.2 SSD are better (faster). Extra money to either GPU or new quality USB DAC like Audioengine, Sound Blaster, NuForce... (50-200$) |
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nrde
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by nrde on Apr 21, 2017 16:43:10 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain? If you have enough memory you don't have to write to pagefile that much anyway. I would put Firefox/Chrome profiles to traditional drive as they at least had a problem with excessive disk use when saving the state of the pages all the time. It can be also changed in setting to not be so aggressive. SSD's are rated for something like 10GB/day writes if I remember correctly. When they wear out, it will be cheap as chips to buy a new one. |
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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2017 16:49:03 GMT -5
So out of curiosity. TBW or terabytes written wrating on the solid state hard drive seems to be the lifespan of the hard drive. Now if I were to have my boot drive on this drive and move my page file to my regular old fashion 2TB hard drive, does that mean there is almost no writing taking place on the boot drive? As in it doesn't really put much strain? I would put Firefox/Chrome profiles to traditional drive as they at least had a problem with excessive disk use when saving the state of the pages all the time. It can be also changed in setting to not be so aggressive. I use both. How do I go about doing this? Are you talking about where you install the program? |
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nrde
Minor Hero
Posts: 62
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Post by nrde on Apr 21, 2017 16:55:50 GMT -5
I would put Firefox/Chrome profiles to traditional drive as they at least had a problem with excessive disk use when saving the state of the pages all the time. It can be also changed in setting to not be so aggressive. I use both. How do I go about doing this? Are you talking about where you install the program? I only use Firefox actively, but it's a setting in about:config (to the address bar) Here's more info: www.servethehome.com/firefox-is-eating-your-ssd-here-is-how-to-fix-it/ Also if you create FF profile to traditional disk, the writing shouldn't matter. (i.e., start firefox with -p parameter and create new profile where you want) I'm not sure if this disk writing is still an issue though. |
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Post by pknaz on Apr 21, 2017 17:46:15 GMT -5
I'll throw another perspective into the ring on the SSD conversation. Typical single user workloads (I would not consider you a typical workload) for SSDs are in the life span of 5-10 years. Your use case, including page files, all applications/games/etc. loaded on the SSD will not reach typical write workloads. Your use cases for your computer are below average in today's standards. I'm pretty demanding of my PC, and in the year that I've had this current SSD, I've only written 4.5TB to it. They key here isn't how much data the OS thinks that you've written, the key is how much the SSD thinks has been written (Which isn't the same). I have a much older SSD that I've used very heavily, and still use, and it only has 5.7TB written. I wouldn't worry about the SSD life span for your use case, I would expect it to outlast a spinning drive, when you consider that the life determining factor of spinning drives is heat.
I would never put a page file on a spinning disk, this will dramatically reduce the speed of your page file, which is already slow. I would ONLY use a spinning platter disk for backups of data for disaster recovery purposes (and stored in another remote physical location, like parents house, friends house, etc.).
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Post by pknaz on Apr 21, 2017 17:49:31 GMT -5
I'll also echo the "ditch the PCI sound card and get a modern USB DAC" sentiment. Such as the TA-100, which includes a nice amplifier for your speakers as well!
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Post by garbulky on Apr 21, 2017 17:55:37 GMT -5
I'll throw another perspective into the ring on the SSD conversation. Typical single user workloads (I would not consider you a typical workload) for SSDs are in the life span of 5-10 years. Your use case, including page files, all applications/games/etc. loaded on the SSD will not reach typical write workloads. Your use cases for your computer are below average in today's standards. I'm pretty demanding of my PC, and in the year that I've had this current SSD, I've only written 4.5TB to it. They key here isn't how much data the OS thinks that you've written, the key is how much the SSD thinks has been written (Which isn't the same). I have a much older SSD that I've used very heavily, and still use, and it only has 5.7TB written. I wouldn't worry about the SSD life span for your use case, I would expect it to outlast a spinning drive, when you consider that the life determining factor of spinning drives is heat. I would never put a page file on a spinning disk, this will dramatically reduce the speed of your page file, which is already slow. I would ONLY use a spinning platter disk for backups of data for disaster recovery purposes (and stored in another remote physical location, like parents house, friends house, etc.). Gotcha, so I'll get about 8 gigs of RAM that should be plenty, I assume. I'll also echo the "ditch the PCI sound card and get a modern USB DAC" sentiment. Such as the TA-100, which includes a nice amplifier for your speakers as well! Noooooo way! Hehehe. I got a DC-1 and an XPA-1 gen 2! Not that the PT-100 I've heard doesn't sound nice! |
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Post by pknaz on Apr 21, 2017 18:35:20 GMT -5
Go with 16GB of RAM, or at least don't fill up all of your RAM slots, so if you want to upgrade to 16 later you can easily do so.
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Post by pknaz on Apr 21, 2017 18:37:08 GMT -5
The DC-1 has a USB input, what would you want to use another sound card for?!?  |
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Post by MusicHead on Apr 21, 2017 19:32:42 GMT -5
Go with 16GB of RAM, or at least don't fill up all of your RAM slots, so if you want to upgrade to 16 later you can easily do so. Amen to that! I would start too with 16GB right out of the bat, however, no matter what amount you want to start with, do NOT max out the physical slots. You would regret it in the future. Keep your options open. |
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