joswald21
Minor Hero
"Makes much more sense to live in the present tense." - McCready, Vedder
Posts: 53 
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Post by joswald21 on Aug 4, 2017 12:07:44 GMT -5
Decisions, decisions, decision... Thoughts? Opinions? Recommendations? Musings? Ramblings? Seeing as it's your first sub I'd go with a single S12. Setup will be much simpler and it'll be fine in a 2.1 system. And if you later get the urge you can add another S12. What receiver/preamp/processor will you be using? Pre-Amp: Emotiva PT-100 Amp: Emotiva A-150 or A-300 |
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Post by geebo on Aug 4, 2017 12:19:37 GMT -5
Seeing as it's your first sub I'd go with a single S12. Setup will be much simpler and it'll be fine in a 2.1 system. And if you later get the urge you can add another S12. What receiver/preamp/processor will you be using? Pre-Amp: Emotiva PT-100 Amp: Emotiva A-150 or A-300 So no bass management and no EQ. It will be a lot easier to do this with one sub especially seeing it's your first. You can always add a second if you get the itch to upgrade. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 12:23:25 GMT -5
Pre-Amp: Emotiva PT-100 Amp: Emotiva A-150 or A-300 So no bass management and no EQ. It will be a lot easier to do this with one sub especially seeing it's your first. You can always add a second if you get the itch to upgrade. Or, you can dial in one sub to your hearts content and then power up the second and play with the dials till your ears are happy! Over time you'll learn more about twin subs and perfect their sound together.  |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 4, 2017 13:26:09 GMT -5
the benefits of duals (for smoothing purposes) is lost if they are collocated You are absolutely and completely mistaken. Why? Because a room is a 3-dimensional space - not a 2-dimensional one. Offset of sources in the horizontal OR the vertical plane creates smoothing cancellations in room reflections. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. Cordially - Boomzilla i understand that. But what you are saying is still the same the cabs are collocated. So they are within 3' of each other. These zero benefit (or not enough to warrant duals)by stacking them or putting them next to each other in the floor (exact same thing) especially when considering your argument of a 3D room)z'so sorry bud it is YOU who are completely mistaken www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1195427-dual-subs-stack-not-stack.html MF www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/2323753-subwoofer-theory-why-stack-vs-spread.htmlAnother good read with mark seaton chiming in. You would have to stack the entire height of the room with subs to have it change the fr |
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Post by foggy1956 on Aug 4, 2017 13:32:11 GMT -5
You are absolutely and completely mistaken. Why? Because a room is a 3-dimensional space - not a 2-dimensional one. Offset of sources in the horizontal OR the vertical plane creates smoothing cancellations in room reflections. This is not an opinion. This is a fact. Cordially - Boomzilla i understand that. But what you are saying is still the same the cabs are collocated. So they are within 3' of each other. These zero benefit (or not enough to warrant duals)by stacking them or putting them next to each other in the floor (exact same thing) especially when considering your argument of a 3D room)z'so sorry bud it is YOU who are completely mistaken www.avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1195427-dual-subs-stack-not-stack.html MF Stacking subs can help negate room nodes generated in the vertical plane is the point he is making. In 3 dimensions it can be useful to negate nodes in 1 of the planes. |
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butchgo
Emo VIPs 
The Dark Side rules
Posts: 570
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Post by butchgo on Aug 4, 2017 13:33:07 GMT -5
Go two - even if you have to stack them vertically. Smoother response that way. Totally agree!!!! |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 4, 2017 13:34:27 GMT -5
Stacking subs can help negate room nodes generated in the vertical plane is the point he is making. In 3 dimensions it can be useful to negate nodes in 1 of the planes. Yes but only upper bass frequencies. Read what mark seaton has to say about it. When using dials the major benefit is seen by putting them around the room NOT stacking them. Imho as per he op question if he is stacking them it's a waste of duals |
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Post by foggy1956 on Aug 4, 2017 13:36:03 GMT -5
Stacking subs can help negate room nodes generated in the vertical plane is the point he is making. In 3 dimensions it can be useful to negate nodes in 1 of the planes. Yes but only upper bass frequencies. Read what mark seaton has to say about it. When using dials the major benefit is seen by putting them around the room NOT stacking them. Imho as per he op question if he is stacking them it's a waste of duals Nevermind |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 4, 2017 13:37:53 GMT -5
Yes but only upper bass frequencies. Read what mark seaton has to say about it. When using dials the major benefit is seen by putting them around the room NOT stacking them. Imho as per he op question if he is stacking them it's a waste of duals Nevermind Why never mind? Does boom have graphs that can back up what he is claiming? I'd be interested to learn if I am in fact wrong |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 4, 2017 13:40:03 GMT -5
I've just done a quick search and haven't found one answer that stacking is a large benefit of duals on frequencies
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 13:52:15 GMT -5
I have always gone one sub and next time I am going two subs.
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 13:52:22 GMT -5
Why never mind? Does boom have graphs that can back up what he is claiming? I'd be interested to learn if I am in fact wrong I Have stacked subs in the past when my room size wouldn't allow other options and found it to be very satisfactory and appealing to my ear. More so then just a single sub. YMMV  |
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Post by musicfan on Aug 4, 2017 13:55:46 GMT -5
Why never mind? Does boom have graphs that can back up what he is claiming? I'd be interested to learn if I am in fact wrong I Have stacked subs in the past when my room size wouldn't allow other options and found it to be very satisfactory and appealing to my ear. More so then just a single sub. YMMV View AttachmentI don't doubt it. But what I am asking about is smoothing the FR which can't be proven without graphs. And from everything I have read stacking has little benefit I just want to see the proof. That's all. Also stacking increases the output 6db. And louder is always perceived as better. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 14:11:22 GMT -5
I Have stacked subs in the past when my room size wouldn't allow other options and found it to be very satisfactory and appealing to my ear. More so then just a single sub. YMMV I don't doubt it. But what I am asking about is smoothing the FR which can't be proven without graphs. And from everything I have read stacking has little benefit I just want to see the proof. That's all. Also stacking increases the output 6db. And louder is always perceived as better. Maybe to somebody new to this hobby, louder is better. But not to me. ( yes, I said that Boomzilla ) even though one would think that stacking only reinforces the current response, I find that it covers a wider spectrum of hz more evenly. Nope, I don't have the charts you'll have to dig fot those that do all of the number. I do count on my ears alot |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 14:19:06 GMT -5
The OP is building a two channel system. hemster said try one then if not try two. Two not four. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 14:29:44 GMT -5
I asked Tom Vodhanel of PowerSound and he confirmed EXACTLY what I said. In addition to Tom's opinion, I've also personally tried the "vertical stack" method for myself. And it most definitely DID work. Until you've tried it, you're spouting internet nonsense based on someone else's opinion (who probably hasn't tried it either). So you can believe whatever you, the AVS forum, or Mark Seaton want to believe. I know otherwise. And again - this is NOT an opinion - it's a fact. |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 14:58:14 GMT -5
I asked Tom Vodhanel of PowerSound and he confirmed EXACTLY what I said. In addition to Tom's opinion, I've also personally tried the "vertical stack" method for myself. And it most definitely DID work. Until you've tried it, you're spouting internet nonsense based on someone else's opinion (who probably hasn't tried it either). So you can believe whatever you, the AVS forum, or Mark Seaton want to believe. I know otherwise. And again - this is NOT an opinion - it's a fact. How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla. I have there page on my desktop and got some money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. |
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Post by geebo on Aug 4, 2017 15:02:44 GMT -5
I asked Tom Vodhanel of PowerSound and he confirmed EXACTLY what I said. In addition to Tom's opinion, I've also personally tried the "vertical stack" method for myself. And it most definitely DID work. Until you've tried it, you're spouting internet nonsense based on someone else's opinion (who probably hasn't tried it either). So you can believe whatever you, the AVS forum, or Mark Seaton want to believe. I know otherwise. And again - this is NOT an opinion - it's a fact. What's a fact? Tom's opinion or that you've tried the vertical stack? Or something else? |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 15:11:32 GMT -5
I don't doubt it. But what I am asking about is smoothing the FR which can't be proven without graphs. And from everything I have read stacking has little benefit I just want to see the proof. That's all. Also stacking increases the output 6db. And louder is always perceived as better. Maybe to somebody new to this hobby, louder is better. But not to me. ( yes, I said that Boomzilla ) even though one would think that stacking only reinforces the current response, I find that it covers a wider spectrum of hz more evenly. Nope, I don't have the charts you'll have to dig fot those that do all of the number. I do count on my ears alot Nick I went to see Dunkirk at an AMC IMAX theater and walked out after fifteen minutes because it was loud and distorted, The Theater manager agreed with me and gave me my money back and a free pass to a Dolby show that had very good sound. I worked with rock bands all my life and every show that made my ears hurt sucked. Louder is not better. Your absolutely right Nick. Smooth is better.  I hope that catches on Nick. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 15:19:47 GMT -5
Maybe to somebody new to this hobby, louder is better. But not to me. ( yes, I said that Boomzilla ) even though one would think that stacking only reinforces the current response, I find that it covers a wider spectrum of hz more evenly. Nope, I don't have the charts you'll have to dig fot those that do all of the number. I do count on my ears alot Nick I went to see Dunkirk at an AMC IMAX theater and walked out after fifteen minutes because it was loud and distorted, The Theater manager agreed with me and gave me my money back and a free pass to a Dolby show that had very good sound. I worked with rock bands all my life and every show that made my ears hurt sucked. Louder is not better. Your absolutely right Nick. Smooth is better. I hope that catches on Nick. I hope so as well! |
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