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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 15:27:50 GMT -5
I asked Tom Vodhanel of PowerSound and he confirmed EXACTLY what I said. In addition to Tom's opinion, I've also personally tried the "vertical stack" method for myself. And it most definitely DID work. Until you've tried it, you're spouting internet nonsense based on someone else's opinion (who probably hasn't tried it either). So you can believe whatever you, the AVS forum, or Mark Seaton want to believe. I know otherwise. And again - this is NOT an opinion - it's a fact. How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla . I have there page on my desktop and got someone e money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. I have just purchased two PSA S3000i subs and im still playing with setting them up. I didn't have room or the back to get what Boomzilla had purchased, S3601. Too heavy to get up the steps at home & floorspace is at a premium. While playing some bass heavy music to test out my 2.1 system I had to check three times as the room felt and sounded like both subs were playing. 😁 They were not, only the one. WOW SORRY FOR BUTTING IN 😁 |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 15:36:07 GMT -5
How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla. I have there page on my desktop and got some money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. They aren't cheap, but they are the best-made I've seen. The customer service is excellent. They'll take trade-ins on your purchases should you decide you want something else in their line. They give good advice. They treat you fairly. And, yes, their subs sound awesome! |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 15:36:33 GMT -5
How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla . I have there page on my desktop and got someone e money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. I have just purchased two PSA S3000i subs and im still playing with setting them up. I didn't have room or the back to get what Boomzilla had purchased, S3601. Too heavy to get up the steps at home & floorspace is at a premium. While playing some bass heavy music to test out my 2.1 system I had to check three times as the room felt and sounded like both subs were playing. 😁 They were not, only the one. WOW SORRY FOR BUTTING IN 😁 Get your butt in gear and get both playing ! 2.2 system brother ! Go big or go home !  |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 15:45:30 GMT -5
What's a fact? Tom's opinion or that you've tried the vertical stack? Or something else? It's a fact that Tom confirmed my statement regarding vertical stacking as a valid means of changing room resonances. It's also a fact that I tried vertical stacking for myself and that the (positive) result was not subtle. Those two factoids together are sufficient to make the claim (vertical stacking is enough to change room resonances significantly) factual as opposed to opinion. Now there will always be those who claim that I didn't hear what I did. They're welcome to call me a liar. But without their own experience with stacked subs (yielding the opposite of my results), their claims are weak. They're also welcome to claim Tom V. is a liar. Being in the business, I'm sure it won't be his first time (or his last). And frankly, it isn't worth my time to argue it anymore. So believe whatever you want in spite of the facts. |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 15:55:54 GMT -5
How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla. I have there page on my desktop and got some money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. They aren't cheap, but they are the best-made I've seen. The customer service is excellent. They'll take trade-ins on your purchases should you decide you want something else in their line. They give good advice. They treat you fairly. And, yes, their subs sound awesome! The Airmotiv's S15 are one active 15 inch driver and one 15 inch passive radiator. The Power Sound sealed S1500 for $999 has got my attention but not my money. The T2's are on the way. We will see. Thanks Boom. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 16:04:29 GMT -5
What's a fact? Tom's opinion or that you've tried the vertical stack? Or something else? It's a fact that Tom confirmed my statement regarding vertical stacking as a valid means of changing room resonances. It's also a fact that I tried vertical stacking for myself and that the (positive) result was not subtle. Those two factoids together are sufficient to make the claim (vertical stacking is enough to change room resonances significantly) factual as opposed to opinion. Now there will always be those who claim that I didn't hear what I did. They're welcome to call me a liar. But without their own experience with stacked subs (yielding the opposite of my results), their claims are weak. They're also welcome to claim Tom V. is a liar. Being in the business, I'm sure it won't be his first time (or his last). And frankly, it isn't worth my time to argue it anymore. So believe whatever you want in spite of the facts. I'm not liking this post because Boomzilla is a friend of mine, we've disagreed on more then one occasion, but that he states my conclusions so much more eloquently then I. Been there, stacked um and its true in my experience. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 4, 2017 16:06:19 GMT -5
I would like to step back 2 DECADES (roughly) to put some of this stuff into perspective.
Late 90's, subwoofer integration really started to take off.
Back then, most were given the conventional wisdom, which is still fundamentally valid.
That being, those lowest frequencies delegated to the subwoofer are VERY difficult for the ear to discern as to their location. That being said one subwoofer well located with the proper crossover point will get the job done.
From a marketing standpoint, it sure seemed like the sub.
Companies were shooting themselves in the veritable foot with that one, and later on the push for multiple subs. Was off and running.
At the end of the day I believe in TRYING the original approach first, and let your ears put in a second one, or whatever makes it work for your taste in sound if a singular doesn't sound right. (Note I didn't say "music".....)
Bill
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Post by geebo on Aug 4, 2017 16:07:51 GMT -5
What's a fact? Tom's opinion or that you've tried the vertical stack? Or something else? It's a fact that Tom confirmed my statement regarding vertical stacking as a valid means of changing room resonances. It's also a fact that I tried vertical stacking for myself and that the (positive) result was not subtle. Those two factoids together are sufficient to make the claim (vertical stacking is enough to change room resonances significantly) factual as opposed to opinion. Now there will always be those who claim that I didn't hear what I did. They're welcome to call me a liar. But without their own experience with stacked subs (yielding the opposite of my results), their claims are weak. They're also welcome to claim Tom V. is a liar. Being in the business, I'm sure it won't be his first time (or his last). And frankly, it isn't worth my time to argue it anymore. So believe whatever you want in spite of the facts. It just wasn't clear what was a fact, that's all. So Tom's opinion that you were right is a fact. And it's also a fact you tried stacking subs and you heard a difference. Got it. I don't think anyone here is calling Tom a liar FWIW. In my experience, separating the subs and taking time to properly set them up is better than stacking. That, too, is a fact. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 16:11:00 GMT -5
How do you like your PowerSound subs Boomzilla . I have there page on my desktop and got some money to spend. I am thinking very seriously of two of there subs along with Dual Anti-Mode correction to go with the two Airmotiv T2's I just bought today. Sorry OP, but this is about subs. Let's see if one is as good as two. They aren't cheap, but they are the best-made I've seen. The customer service is excellent. They'll take trade-ins on your purchases should you decide you want something else in their line. They give good advice. They treat you fairly. And, yes, their subs sound awesome!  What he said. 😁 |
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 16:11:37 GMT -5
I would like to step back 2 DECADES (roughly) to put some of this stuff into perspective. Late 90's, subwoofer integration really started to take off. Back then, most were given the conventional wisdom, which is still fundamentally valid. That being, those lowest frequencies delegated to the subwoofer are VERY difficult for the ear to discern as to their location. That being said one subwoofer well located with the proper crossover point will get the job done. From a marketing standpoint, it sure seemed like the sub. Companies were shooting themselves in the veritable foot with that one, and later on the push for multiple subs. Was off and running. At the end of the day I believe in TRYING the original approach first, and let your ears put in a second one, or whatever makes it work for your taste in sound if a singular doesn't sound right. (Note I didn't say "music".....) Bill I would say music. Wisdom is one sub located properly in a room for music is very good. I am after fifty years doing this going to try two. OP should take hemster advice and try one first. There is no single answer for every system.  |
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Post by geebo on Aug 4, 2017 16:14:17 GMT -5
It's a fact that Tom confirmed my statement regarding vertical stacking as a valid means of changing room resonances. It's also a fact that I tried vertical stacking for myself and that the (positive) result was not subtle. Those two factoids together are sufficient to make the claim (vertical stacking is enough to change room resonances significantly) factual as opposed to opinion. Now there will always be those who claim that I didn't hear what I did. They're welcome to call me a liar. But without their own experience with stacked subs (yielding the opposite of my results), their claims are weak. They're also welcome to claim Tom V. is a liar. Being in the business, I'm sure it won't be his first time (or his last). And frankly, it isn't worth my time to argue it anymore. So believe whatever you want in spite of the facts. I'm not liking this post because Boomzilla is a friend of mine, we've disagreed on more then one occasion, but that he states my conclusions so much more eloquently then I. Been there, stacked um and its true in my experience. But it's also a fact that in my opinion it's better to separate them. |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 16:15:23 GMT -5
Another thought, the # of subs used/needed is music dependent.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 16:15:28 GMT -5
Nothing to lose by trying one first.
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Post by novisnick on Aug 4, 2017 16:22:17 GMT -5
I'm not liking this post because Boomzilla is a friend of mine, we've disagreed on more then one occasion, but that he states my conclusions so much more eloquently then I. Been there, stacked um and its true in my experience. But it's also a fact that in my opinion it's better to separate them. Yes, I have gotten better results when separated but when floorspace is a premium, I'll take a stacked pair vs a single all day long. Have we discussed money? Whas that a limiting factor? (Can of worms officially opened) 😋 |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 4, 2017 16:23:11 GMT -5
I would like to step back 2 DECADES (roughly) to put some of this stuff into perspective. Late 90's, subwoofer integration really started to take off. Back then, most were given the conventional wisdom, which is still fundamentally valid. That being, those lowest frequencies delegated to the subwoofer are VERY difficult for the ear to discern as to their location. That being said one subwoofer well located with the proper crossover point will get the job done. From a marketing standpoint, it sure seemed like the sub. Companies were shooting themselves in the veritable foot with that one, and later on the push for multiple subs. Was off and running. At the end of the day I believe in TRYING the original approach first, and let your ears put in a second one, or whatever makes it work for your taste in sound if a singular doesn't sound right. (Note I didn't say "music".....) Bill I would say music. Wisdom is one sub located properly in a room for music is very good. I am after fifty years doing this going to try two. OP should take hemster advice and try one first. There is no single answer for every system. Yep My sound vs. music note 🎶 was just a knee jerk reaction to what has been done to bass by some of the kids these days. When you put too many subs in their control, I get scared 😳. Bill |
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Post by brutiarti on Aug 4, 2017 16:27:16 GMT -5
For that room size I will do 2 s8 or 10. The 12's are better for movies imo.
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 16:31:27 GMT -5
Let me just say if you have the space and place to get that lower frequency, more power to you.
It is deep feeling that just makes your senses come alive. I have been there and I bet many here have been there.
You can not over do it though. You know what I mean.
I have heard full range speakers in a small room that over power the room. No subs needed !
Shake your the whole neighborhood with sub frequency vibrations to make a statement is not cool. I hear it here in Atlanta from cars all the time.
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 16:34:46 GMT -5
geebo's right - horizontal separation is better than vertical separation. But in the "goodness" scheme of two-subwoofer placements: Horizontal AND vertical separation are best Horizontal separation is second best Vertical separation is third best But all have something to offer.
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Post by Axis on Aug 4, 2017 16:40:53 GMT -5
For that room size I will do 2 s8 or 10. The 12's are better for movies imo. LFE (low frequency effect) That's movies. Two channel music is not the same. I would refer to @roryb advice of a single BasX 10 being tight for music. My little sealed Emotiva Ultra 10 is tight with more punch than many other subs out there. I learned this building car audio systems. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 4, 2017 16:49:31 GMT -5
A lot of how a sub sounds in a room has to do with the room itself. You CAN overload a room with bass and make it into an echo chamber. Even if you have bass traps galore. One of the features I particularly like about my new PowerSound Audio S3601 is the fact that it has a "room size" dial on the plate amp. As you turn the dial from "large" to "small," not only does the damping change but also the low end of the frequency response is removed to give the bass a "tighter" sound, regardless of the sized room that the sub is plunked down in. For now, I have a 3,500+ cubic-foot room with vented corners, so I'm running the sub at the limit of its "large" range. But should I move to another house with a smaller listening room, I'm hoping that the size adjustment on the sub will allow me to use the same sub in a smaller room. When I reviewed the BasX surround system, the two S12 Emotiva subs worked amazingly well in my room. But I wouldn't necessarily recommend them for a much smaller room... There's a lot to be said for "sizing the subwoofer to fit the room." In a smaller room, I'd expect better performance from the Emotiva S8 or S10 than I would from the S12. Sometimes buying the biggest & baddest isn't the best choice... And I'd still have to append that last sentence by adding "unless the sub has room-size compensation." Boom |
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