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Post by smfins on Aug 15, 2017 19:56:45 GMT -5
I use two panamax 5300 to trigger on my Aragon palladium amps from my marantz 7702 mkii. each panamax is on it's own circuit. These Aragon's draw a lot of current, and I haven't noticed any issues as far as clipping goes. Maybe if both amps were hooked to one panamax maybe??
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Post by lehighvalleyjeff on Aug 15, 2017 23:05:17 GMT -5
Not advocating for the cause, just relaying my experience:
I live in an older house with older electric. Main system uses a Monster Power AVS2000 voltage regulator and a Monster Power HTS5000. I've had them for around 15 years. I'd argue that there may be some truth that it helps isolate the audio system from the rest of the electric in the house. Maybe but who knows?
System number 2 runs on a new Panamax MX5102. The reason I bought it was that both of my systems are biamped with monoblocks and I ran out of outlets. Best Buy had 65% off as its discontinued and they did free shipping to my house. Best $200 I've spent from a convenience standpoint. It also has battery backup and a lot of power filtering that I'm not sure I understand.
The final step is I had an electrician install a sub panel and all dedicated 20 amp circuits for my systems. That way there is no chance of interference from other appliances in the house.
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Post by leonski on Aug 16, 2017 2:07:03 GMT -5
West? I don't know where to start with you. Who said an Iso transformer was 'protection'? It does inherently block some forms of line-borne interference, but surges not among them. I recommended WHOLE HOUSE surge protection for those in lightning belt areas or where surges are common. The MOV device is a known and CHEAP solution for such events with known breakdown characteristics. Wired as a 'Y' between Hot/Ground- Hot/Neutral-Neutral/Ground big zaps get shunted to your house ground, typically a large copper rod driven into the ground near the service box. MOVs can also be pressed into service (at appropriate breakdown voltages) on Telephone and Cable lines. An ISO transformer is a good way to get clean / 'balanced' power to a device. My Panamax has a (very)poorly named button marked 'AC Regereration' which basically controls 'balanced' v 'Isolated' conditions. I think it has to do with lifting the ground on the 2ndary which would normally be tied to the primary ground. I've never messed with that button, leaving it in 'balanced' since I owned the device. Balanced implies the rejection of 'common mode' interference, like a good balanced (XLR terminated) interconnect. To be honest, I've heard it phrased differently, but the effect I hope is the same. Transformers BLOCK DC, to, if you have any DC offset on your incoming power. Some transformers hum like crazy when confronted with such offset. When first connected, my noise floor dropped enough for me to need to 'pop' my ears. And it wasn't like I though it was noisy, before install. Just that AFTER install, it was completely BLACK. www.toruspower.com/plain-white-papers/why-use-an-isolation-transformer/Surge protection is rated, usually, in Joules. And they give a maximum energy level in joules, breakdown voltage www.littelfuse.com/~/media/electronics_technical/application_notes/varistors/littelfuse_selecting_a_littelfuse_varistor_application_note.pdfThe little fuse MOV selector with fairly complete specs. NOTE: MOV devices 'wear out' and can only take some much before becoming non-functional. Good luck with No Surge Current inside a building. A decade or so ago, I was house sitting in Palm Springs when a MAJOR Thunderstorm blew threw. 3 major lightning strikes within see-the-flash range of the house. Everybody OUT of the pool! House was OK, since the surge was distributed thru a huge area grid, but the Telephone Modem on one of the computers was Aced. As were a couple trees which were Dead-Centered. To exclude surges from your building? A MOV array right at the incoming service. Done. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 16, 2017 8:16:59 GMT -5
This thread has had a long enough life, that I needed to revisit the original question.....
My answer to the SECOND part of that question is,
The reason I Don't use a "power conditioner", is frankly because it never occurred to me, and was fundamentally unaware of their existence until around 15 years ago ( a guesstimate)
50 years is a pretty long time to go without ever having a failure of an electronic component due to an electrical problem, surge, etc.
If I recall, I was not even using a surge strip for the first 10 years or so I was at this, and I still have the first one I bought in the eighties and the Tripp button has never been reset.
The protective device I rely upon most heavily is the weather radio 📻 and a dose of common sense.
When I'm gone for the day and I hear about severe weather on the way, the plugs get pulled.
When I travel, the plugs get pulled.
Bill
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Post by westom on Aug 16, 2017 8:36:32 GMT -5
West? I don't know where to start with you. Who said an Iso transformer was 'protection'? That is the point that I am sure many do not grasp. That isolation transformer was recommended for some vague anomaly. List of potential anomalies is long. Each 'solution' must define and must include perspective (ie numbers) of what is does. Otherwise I can assume, for example, that the isolation transformer is being recommended for transient protection (since galvanic isolation is advocated for transient protection). Anomalies include EMI/EMC, floating ground, reverse polarity, RFI, open neutral, high voltage, sags, frequency variation, noise, bad power factor, brownout, harmonics, and blackouts. That isolation transformer averts which ones? A recommendation must be quite specific. And it must provide numbers. Discussed was a vague reference to galvanic isolation. OK. Then that protection must also be defined by a specification number. I listed some because perspective is always required for honesty. Too many subjective recommendations exist. Subjective is akin to junk science reasoning. Not only do so many recommendations not specifically state what it averts (protects from). Too many recommendations fail to include what must always exist - specification numbers. 'Start with me' by being specific and by including those always required numbers in your every post. No numbers is a first indication of outright and intentional lies. Honesty always comes with perspective. For example, ineffective transient protection is defined in joules. Effective transient protection is defined in current. A minimally effective protector is rateed to connect at least 50,000 amps harmlessly and via a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth. Numbers and what is relevant. Better protectors 'absorb' less joules. I leave it to you to define why more joules is better. An answer that I expect to include more numbers. Need a power conditioner? Then tie a knot in the power cord. That is a power conditioner using what also recommended other power conditioners - no numbers. Numbers demonstrate why power conditioners are so much hype and so little solution. When does an effective protector 'wear out'? After many decades and many direct lightning strikes. When do ineffective protectors wear out? Many believe in a few years - due to so many junk science recommendations - no facts and no numbers. 'Balanced power'? The word 'hooey' applies. Does not matter how 'balanced'. Since an electronic's power supply immediately 'unbalances' that power. How do you unplug some of the most easily damaged appliances - dishwasher, dimmer switches, furnace, GFCIs, smoke detectors, refrigerator, etc? You don't. How does a weather forecast predict most sources of surges - linemen errors, stray cars, tree rodent, utility switching ... It doesn't. Informed homeowner do not bother and need not unplug. Because informed homeowners installed a solution measured in amps - not joules. And connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to what does effective protection. |
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Post by KeithL on Aug 16, 2017 11:24:52 GMT -5
As you've noted, an isolation transformer may reduce or eliminate certain issues, but is far from a universal solution - and won't "just make things sound better" unless you have one of the problems for which it is a solution. It's a classic example of something that is often recommended "as an improvement" to eliminate problems that you may or may not have. An isolation transformer CAN improve the situation for a number of reasons: 1) It provides isolation, which can eliminate ground noise issues like ground loops (by isolating one or more components you "break" the loop). 2) That isolation may in fact protect your equipment from certain types of transients and line faults (but a simple transformer will not block slow surges or drops). 3) Because all transformers are large inductors, they also tend to filter out at least some high frequency noise (this varies). Isolation transformers, especially big ones, tend to be large, heavy, and expensive.... which suggests against buying one unless you really need it. I would also like to clarify one thing you mentioned.... which is a slight but very widely accepted oversimplification. A "transient surge" AS YOUR EQUIPMENT EXPERIENCES IT is a jump in VOLTAGE and not current. (Current is always driven by voltage - I=V/R .) It is indeed true that the most common cause for a surge is something like a lightning strike. The strike itself is a high voltage spark, which "dumps" a huge amount of current into the grid as it seeks to ground itself. This current spike then causes a spike in the voltage drop between the power grid and ground. (The power grid has its own equipment designed to provide a low impedance path to ground for lightning strikes - but its operation isn't perfect.) This spike in VOLTAGE is what your equipment experiences - and what may cause damage. It is also true that the most common method for preventing this spike is to provide a low resistance path to ground for the current from the strike. (By offering a low resistance path to ground, the voltage drop due to the current flow is reduced, and so the voltage spike is reduced or "eliminated".) The devices normally used to do this are designed to short the current to ground..... They are rated in joules (the amount of power they can safely pass to ground) and most are sacrificial (they eventually wear out and must be replaced). However, there is another type of surge protector that are known as "series mode surge suppressors" (popular brands include Brick Wall and SurgeX). Rather than shunt the current to ground, they simply block the surge voltage that it causes from being applied to your equipment. Rather than seek to protect "the system", they are designed to protect the equipment or home connected to them. Series mode suppressors are non-sacrificial (they don't wear out) and have no specific joule rating. (According to the standard method of rating surge suppressors, their "surge joule rating" is infinite.) This sort of surge suppressor is very effective against the very short surges generated by lightning strikes, but less so against the sort caused by equipment failure on the grid. They also include a large inductor, and so provide significant line filtering against high frequency noise. The down-side is that they tend to be somewhat large, somewhat heavy, and somewhat expensive when compared to the other type. (Check out the manufacturer's websites for specifications and a more detailed theory of operation.) West? I don't know where to start with you. Who said an Iso transformer was 'protection'? That is the point that I am sure many do not grasp. That isolation transformer was recommended for some vague anomaly. List of potential anomalies is long. Each 'solution' must define and must include perspective (ie numbers) of what is does. Otherwise I can assume, for example, that the isolation transformer is being recommended for transient protection (since galvanic isolation is advocated for transient protection). Anomalies include EMI/EMC, floating ground, reverse polarity, RFI, open neutral, high voltage, sags, frequency variation, noise, bad power factor, brownout, harmonics, and blackouts. That isolation transformer averts which ones? A recommendation must be quite specific. And it must provide numbers. Discussed was a vague reference to galvanic isolation. OK. Then that protection must also be defined by a specification number. I listed some because perspective is always required for honesty. Too many subjective recommendations exist. Subjective is akin to junk science reasoning. Not only do so many recommendations not specifically state what it averts (protects from). Too many recommendations fail to include what must always exist - specification numbers. 'Start with me' by being specific and by including those always required numbers in your every post. No numbers is a first indication of outright and intentional lies. Honesty always comes with perspective. For example, ineffective transient protection is defined in joules. Effective transient protection is defined in current. A minimally effective protector is rateed to connect at least 50,000 amps harmlessly and via a low impedance (ie less than 10 foot) connection to earth. Numbers and what is relevant. Better protectors 'absorb' less joules. I leave it to you to define why more joules is better. An answer that I expect to include more numbers. Need a power conditioner? Then tie a knot in the power cord. That is a power conditioner using what also recommended other power conditioners - no numbers. Numbers demonstrate why power conditioners are so much hype and so little solution. When does an effective protector 'wear out'? After many decades and many direct lightning strikes. When do ineffective protectors wear out? Many believe in a few years - due to so many junk science recommendations - no facts and no numbers. 'Balanced power'? The word 'hooey' applies. Does not matter how 'balanced'. Since an electronic's power supply immediately 'unbalances' that power. How do you unplug some of the most easily damaged appliances - dishwasher, dimmer switches, furnace, GFCIs, smoke detectors, refrigerator, etc? You don't. How does a weather forecast predict most sources of surges - linemen errors, stray cars, tree rodent, utility switching ... It doesn't. Informed homeowner do not bother and need not unplug. Because informed homeowners installed a solution measured in amps - not joules. And connected low impedance (ie less than 10 feet) to what does effective protection. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 16, 2017 11:28:43 GMT -5
Absolutely - and I like his attitude as well  |
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Post by monkumonku on Aug 16, 2017 12:43:36 GMT -5
Thanks for posting that. The article made excellent sense which of course makers of external power conditioners don't want you to see... |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 16, 2017 12:57:40 GMT -5
Yes.....Rosner knows his stuff for sure
Bill
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Post by leonski on Aug 16, 2017 13:05:33 GMT -5
My power conditioner has protected my system from several Low Voltage events over the years. All outlets are turned OFF when line voltage drops below about 95vac. Some equipment with SMPS may be less effected by such power line voltage swings. And while it IS anecdotal, when I first connected my power conditioner, ALL the little 'flecks' which were called 'snow' in those days, simply disappeared from my CRT Television. When the source, small dish, was shut off, the set went to Jet Black. The picture improvement was noted even by my wife, who could generally care less. As long as it works. The stereo sound was likewise improved. Sound came out of a blacker background. I had to rearrange slightly the speaker geometry. Imaging was improved. I am overall a 'skeptic' of MOST tweaks. No crystals in my system. No anti-vibration footers on stuff. No worries about BiMetalic junctions. Least Expensive plastic fiber optic where needed. No exotic wire or cable anywhere. West: Please read the link I provided for the LITTLEFUSE MOV line. Plenty of real measured DATA for you to mull over. If I lived in a Lightining Zone, I'd sure consider Series Mode protection. ieeexplore.ieee.org/document/1339333/Just read the abstract for the general idea. And now that I think about it, I had a similar chat with someone a few years ago. A boat owner. He insisted that 'amps' were the true measure of power. In a fixed voltage system, like a boat, he may have a case. But I still prefer WATTS. To make use of JOULES as your measure, you need to know the TIME over which the energy is applied. This calculator makes it fairly easy. www.rapidtables.com/calc/electric/Joule_to_Watt_Calculator.htm |
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Post by vneal on Aug 16, 2017 17:02:02 GMT -5
Some of you are full of Schiitt
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 16, 2017 17:17:36 GMT -5
Some of you are full of Schiitt It comes from reading JOULES VERNE |
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Post by leonski on Aug 16, 2017 18:40:45 GMT -5
I simply don't care about the prevailing wrong opinion. Reality is everything that doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. I stopped believing
in tweaks, yet the improvement stays.
I'm personally NOT prone to tweaks, like crystals and vibration control in SS equipment with no moving parts. (tubes an exception = microphonic)
So, you all therefore have a right to be wrong.
When I first connected a power conditioner and my TV got NOTICABLY better, with ALL the snow disappeared, I was converted. Somebody PLEASE account
for that and tell me my EYES are bad, as well as having messed up hearing.
That 'expert' article makes NO mention of RFI / subharmonic coupling thru the PS. And keeps repeating the mantra that the PS should 'block' all the bad stuff without once
mentioning radiated RF coulpling Into a circuit.
If EMO and the management really believe this, they, for the cause of intellectual honesty should Stop Selling the power conditioner devices with the EMO brand on them.
After all, a simple surge supressor or outlet strip with 14ga power cord will do as well, right?
The One VERY expensive category not yet discussed is the AC Regenerator of PS Audio. This is basically a power amplifier operating at a single 60hz frequency. I personally don't get this
one, either, but it's on the table. Some swear by this, but I won't pony up the several Kilo$ to find out.
Let the personal vituperation begin.
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 16, 2017 22:54:39 GMT -5
When I first connected a power conditioner and my TV got NOTICABLY better, with ALL the snow disappeared, I was converted. Somebody PLEASE account for that and tell me my EYES are bad" When you first hooked up, was it with the early HD monitors that were of the CRT variety? I do recall notable snow improvement On those using a conditioner Not so much with the LED. Bill |
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Post by leonski on Aug 17, 2017 0:15:40 GMT -5
The TV in question was a 4:3 Panasonic in 36" The last of the 'round front' sets. Next gen was all 'flat screen' while 16:9 was still a few years away.
Darn thing took 2 men and a boy to move.
Don't forget this was an ALL analogue set. Not a 'fixed pixel' display which may react differently to OTA noise.
PRE HD and certainly before LED/LCD, LCOS, Plamsa or OLED.
Does this in some fashion invalidate my observations?
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 17, 2017 7:29:42 GMT -5
Do you use a POWER CONDITIONER? Why or why not? Thanks 🙏 to this thread I have revisited my current (no pun intended) level of surge protection and have upped the ante. That being said, I continue to rely on the very high quality power supply of the XMC, and the rest of the individual components for filtering, and that's enough. Bill |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 17, 2017 7:55:23 GMT -5
The TV in question was a 4:3 Panasonic in 36" The last of the 'round front' sets. Next gen was all 'flat screen' while 16:9 was still a few years away. Darn thing took 2 men and a boy to move. Don't forget this was an ALL analogue set. Not a 'fixed pixel' display which may react differently to OTA noise. PRE HD and certainly before LED/LCD, LCOS, Plamsa or OLED. Does this in some fashion invalidate my observations? Oh, not at all looking to invalidate, just recall on the old cathode ray tube monitors, and that they were helped by filtering, as you did. Big push back then for surge protectors with filtering for the monitor specifically. Magnetically shielded drivers are another need that of course, has fallen by the wayside, since the disappearance of CRT. Bill |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 17, 2017 9:13:30 GMT -5
You've made a very important point here - but I'd like to sort of shine a spotlight on it. Things like power conditioners and power filters can make a huge difference - but ONLY if they solve an actual problem. And note that there are TWO important aspects to that statement: 1) it assumes that you have an actual problem 2) it assumes that the presumed solution actually solves (or at least improves) the problem In the situation you describe, you actually had a TV with a snowy picture, and the power conditioner actually solved the problem. (And snow in a picture is a little bit easier to see, and a little harder to imagine, than some subtle change in the distortion or noise floor.) One problem in the audio industry today is the proliferation of tweaks that claim to solve problems that simply don't exist. Another problem is the proliferation of tweaks that simply don't work - or that do nothing at all. For example, if a certain piece of equipment is actually susceptible to line noise getting into it, and you can hear that noise, then a line filter may help. And, yes, it's possible that your amplifier could produce a higher level of audible distortion because some RF noise getting into it, even though you don't hear the noise directly. Unfortunately, it's also possible that your system is working perfectly to begin with, and some great marketing literature has just convinced you to imagine that there's distortion. I'll leave it to the philosophy buffs whether solving a problem that doesn't really exist constitutes "doing something" beyond moving your money into someone else's bank account. (But, from a purely technical point of view, the problems that don't exist are great - because they're so easy to fix - even using equally imaginary solutions.) I think you'll find that the article was quite general.... and, in that same general sense, I would agree with what it says. Yes, you COULD have noise or distortion because of EMI finding its way through the power supply. But, yes, a really well designed power supply wouldn't let that happen under normal circumstances. But, yes, ALL devices have some compromises... even the ones NASA and the military build with almost unlimited budgets... and especially commercial ones. Nobody designs home audio gear with the sort of shielding it would need to avoid picking up noise if your next door neighbor is an FM antenna. (But, then, very few of us have such an unruly neighbor; and most of us would prefer not to pay for the protection we would need in that situation....) Therefore, home audio gear is designed (hopefully) with the filtering it needs to perform flawlessly in MOST home situations where it would typically be used. The problem is not the company who sells a really nice expensive power filter that works well... The problem is the company who tries to convince you that EVERYONE needs a really nice power conditioner... And, even worse, the company who does a great job of getting people to imagine that they need one when they actually don't. The usual line is "even if you don't hear any noise or distortion, it's producing a subtle degradation of the sound, and, if you listen really hard, you'll notice a difference." The "unwritten subtext" is "and, if you don't notice a difference, then either you have a lousy system or non-audiophile-grade hearing". Now, obviously, when they phrase it like that, nobody wants to admit that they're the guy with the bad hearing, or the crappy system that "isn't revealing". (And it's the job of those flashy ads and brochures to convince you that only that sort of clod would fail to hear the improvement immediately.) Of course, in reality, they're just setting you up to EXPECT to hear a difference, and to WANT TO hear a difference, and possibly even to not want to admit that you actually don't hear a difference... Now, "in the interest of intellectual honesty"...... The CMX-2 and the CMX-6 are pretty good power conditioners. Both of them do a good job of filtering out high frequency noise on the line - if it's there to begin with. And the CMX-2 ALSO has a neat little circuit that eliminates any DC offset - if there is any. So, if your system doesn't sound as good as it could because of one of those problems, then the CMX-2 or the CMX-6 may well provide a significant improvement. However, if you don't have one of those problems to begin with, then neither of them will make your system SOUND any different ( we never claimed they would.) They're also both nice big heavy power strips - with nice heavy aluminum cases and heavy duty commercial power outlets and internal wiring. They're attractive, they hold up well, and, if you kick one by accident, you're more likely to hurt your toe than the CMX. (I have one on my desk, and, unlike the cheap light plastic ones, it doesn't slide around every time you bump a cord plugged into it.) Incidentally, the CMX-2 and CMX-6 are line filters and power strips - but not specifically surge suppressors. Therefore, if you have serious surge problems in your neighborhood, or lots of lightning strikes, you might want to use them with a surge suppressor. (We don't generally consider that to be necessary with our other equipment - and a poor quality surge suppressor can cause problems.) Also, incidentally, there are several companies besides PS Audio that make power regenerators. The idea is that your audio equipment is so sensitive to the quality of the line power that it needs its own "perfect quality power" to run. (There's even a company who makes one which can deliver power at variable frequencies - so you can pick the one that sounds best with your equipment.) We see this simply as a claim that the power supplies in your equipment are so poorly designed that they won't work right with regular power and need help  (And, as has already been said.... the solution there is to buy other equipment whose power supplies actually work well to begin with.) I simply don't care about the prevailing wrong opinion. Reality is everything that doesn't go away when you stop believing in it. I stopped believing in tweaks, yet the improvement stays. I'm personally NOT prone to tweaks, like crystals and vibration control in SS equipment with no moving parts. (tubes an exception = microphonic) So, you all therefore have a right to be wrong. When I first connected a power conditioner and my TV got NOTICABLY better, with ALL the snow disappeared, I was converted. Somebody PLEASE account for that and tell me my EYES are bad, as well as having messed up hearing. That 'expert' article makes NO mention of RFI / subharmonic coupling thru the PS. And keeps repeating the mantra that the PS should 'block' all the bad stuff without once mentioning radiated RF coulpling Into a circuit. If EMO and the management really believe this, they, for the cause of intellectual honesty should Stop Selling the power conditioner devices with the EMO brand on them. After all, a simple surge supressor or outlet strip with 14ga power cord will do as well, right? The One VERY expensive category not yet discussed is the AC Regenerator of PS Audio. This is basically a power amplifier operating at a single 60hz frequency. I personally don't get this one, either, but it's on the table. Some swear by this, but I won't pony up the several Kilo$ to find out. Let the personal vituperation begin. |
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Post by leonski on Aug 17, 2017 12:17:08 GMT -5
The TV in question was a 4:3 Panasonic in 36" The last of the 'round front' sets. Next gen was all 'flat screen' while 16:9 was still a few years away. Darn thing took 2 men and a boy to move. Don't forget this was an ALL analogue set. Not a 'fixed pixel' display which may react differently to OTA noise. PRE HD and certainly before LED/LCD, LCOS, Plamsa or OLED. Does this in some fashion invalidate my observations? Oh, not at all looking to invalidate, just recall on the old cathode ray tube monitors, and that they were helped by filtering, as you did. Big push back then for surge protectors with filtering for the monitor specifically. Magnetically shielded drivers are another need that of course, has fallen by the wayside, since the disappearance of CRT. Bill I had completely forgotten about 'magnetically shielded' drivers. |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 21, 2017 8:45:13 GMT -5
"You've made a very important point here - but I'd like to sort of shine a spotlight on it. Things like power conditioners and power filters can make a huge difference - but ONLY if they solve an actual problem. And note that there are TWO important aspects to that statement: 1) it assumes that you have an actual problem 2) it assumes that the presumed solution actually solves (or at least improves) the problem In the situation you describe, you actually had a TV with a snowy picture, and the power conditioner actually solved the problem. (And snow in a picture is a little bit easier to see, and a little harder to imagine, than some subtle change in the distortion or noise floor.) One problem in the audio industry today is the proliferation of tweaks that claim to solve problems that simply don't exist. Another problem is the proliferation of tweaks that simply don't work - or that do nothing at all. For example, if a certain piece of equipment is actually susceptible to line noise getting into it, and you can hear that noise, then a line filter may help. And, yes, it's possible that your amplifier could produce a higher level of audible distortion because some RF noise getting into it, even though you don't hear the noise directly. Unfortunately, it's also possible that your system is working perfectly to begin with, and some great marketing literature has just convinced you to imagine that there's distortion. I'll leave it to the philosophy buffs whether solving a problem that doesn't really exist constitutes "doing something" beyond moving your money into someone else's bank account. (But, from a purely technical point of view, the problems that don't exist are great - because they're so easy to fix - even using equally imaginary solutions.) I think you'll find that the article was quite general.... and, in that same general sense, I would agree with what it says. Yes, you COULD have noise or distortion because of EMI finding its way through the power supply. But, yes, a really well designed power supply wouldn't let that happen under normal circumstances. But, yes, ALL devices have some compromises... even the ones NASA and the military build with almost unlimited budgets... and especially commercial ones. Nobody designs home audio gear with the sort of shielding it would need to avoid picking up noise if your next door neighbor is an FM antenna. (But, then, very few of us have such an unruly neighbor; and most of us would prefer not to pay for the protection we would need in that situation....) Therefore, home audio gear is designed (hopefully) with the filtering it needs to perform flawlessly in MOST home situations where it would typically be used. The problem is not the company who sells a really nice expensive power filter that works well... The problem is the company who tries to convince you that EVERYONE needs a really nice power conditioner... And, even worse, the company who does a great job of getting people to imagine that they need one when they actually don't. The usual line is "even if you don't hear any noise or distortion, it's producing a subtle degradation of the sound, and, if you listen really hard, you'll notice a difference." The "unwritten subtext" is "and, if you don't notice a difference, then either you have a lousy system or non-audiophile-grade hearing". Now, obviously, when they phrase it like that, nobody wants to admit that they're the guy with the bad hearing, or the crappy system that "isn't revealing". (And it's the job of those flashy ads and brochures to convince you that only that sort of clod would fail to hear the improvement immediately.) Of course, in reality, they're just setting you up to EXPECT to hear a difference, and to WANT TO hear a difference, and possibly even to not want to admit that you actually don't hear a difference... Now, "in the interest of intellectual honesty"...... The CMX-2 and the CMX-6 are pretty good power conditioners. Both of them do a good job of filtering out high frequency noise on the line - if it's there to begin with. And the CMX-2 ALSO has a neat little circuit that eliminates any DC offset - if there is any. So, if your system doesn't sound as good as it could because of one of those problems, then the CMX-2 or the CMX-6 may well provide a significant improvement. However, if you don't have one of those problems to begin with, then neither of them will make your system SOUND any different ( we never claimed they would.) They're also both nice big heavy power strips - with nice heavy aluminum cases and heavy duty commercial power outlets and internal wiring. They're attractive, they hold up well, and, if you kick one by accident, you're more likely to hurt your toe than the CMX. (I have one on my desk, and, unlike the cheap light plastic ones, it doesn't slide around every time you bump a cord plugged into " I have a CMX-2 given to me as a gift which is still in the box for those reasons above, you have pointed out. It is a solution for a problem I simply don't have at the moment. Bill |
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