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Post by socketman on Apr 15, 2018 21:20:35 GMT -5
Sadly that makes sense and i am sure no one with an XMC-1 wants to hear it or accept it . I enjoy mine so much its not that big of deal and it will happen soon enough.
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Post by teaman on Apr 15, 2018 23:09:28 GMT -5
I can only imagine the 11 channel 200 watt per receiver coming to market. Not a lot of people will be lining up for that receiver I'm afraid based on what would need to be a $5k+ price tag hanging on it. Glad Emo is thinking outside the box though..
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Apr 15, 2018 23:15:48 GMT -5
I wasn't at this show... but I've heard the setup with our speakers here at our facility.... and it sounded pretty darned good. I've also heard a few reports that our speakers sounded quite nice there at Axpona. Exactly which speakers were you assuming would be "a little more high end"..... or did you just mean "more EXPENSIVE"? The Emotiva room was nice as always. They did a nice job with the best room location wise. The Dolby Atmos Demo was definitely very nice as well. Damon mentioned the RMC-1 is about two months away so whatever that means in Emotiva’s time table. The Emotiva demo is a little confusing to me. I feel like they are limiting the performance level of the RMC-1 and the DR amps with the Emotiva branded speakers. It was definitely a nice demo but it lacks the fidelity of speakers that are a little more high end. So it lacks a little “balance”, if their ideal is to have a customer buy all Emotiva from electronics to speakers. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 16, 2018 0:18:14 GMT -5
I’ll take the XMR-1 with 200 wpc x 11 and preouts for the front 3 channels. If I want to hook up my XPR-2 to the main 2 channels and have the XMR-1 power the center, surrounds and Atmos channels. I may need to get something for the center as well. I’ll predict right here on 4/15/2018 that this is going to be the game changing product. Looking forward to fall/winter this year for its eminent release. I shared my enthusiasm in person with Lonnie and even took a picture with him lol. (maybe he will ask me to beta test haha) Oh contraire, I'll predict right here on 16/4/18 that it's one of, if not the, biggest flops that Emotiva have ever made.  I just don't see why anyone would buy a big hunk of high quality AVR from Emotiva when the processor part is going to be out of date (technically) between 2 and 3 years. Leaving a big chunk of dollars wasted on power amplifiers that are working perfectly but are rendered useless by what comes in front of them. It seemed to me like a dumb idea at the time it was announced and it still seems like a dumb idea now.  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 16, 2018 0:34:28 GMT -5
Well my INTP personality has a different take  Namely that the RMC-1, XMC-1 Gen 3 and XMC-1 Gen 2 Atmos upgrade DSP boards are all the same or a very similar design based on previous analysis posted just prior to this post and also discussed by me back in January. Assuming I am correct then from an engineering perspective one would develop the highest specification product first and then just scale back/remove/disable features/capabilities for the lower specification/lower cost products. A manufacturer wouldn't want to work from the bottom up in case something in the design needs changing later to support the higher spec solution. It makes much greater commercial sense to ship XMC-1 Gen 3 and new XMC-1 Gen 2's with DSP upgrade board already fitted before upgrading existing XMC-1 customers; however frustrating that must be for those who already have XMC-1, given their long wait. The XMC-1 Gen 2 DSP board replacement is a factory upgrade which means Emotiva have to devote extra resources to receiving, dismantling, rebuilding, re-testing etc and then re-shipment back to customers. Much more messy logistically and more resource intensive than just manufacturing and shipping either new XMC-1 Gen 3 or even new XMC-1 Gen 2 with new DSP board. Also probably with significantly lower margins than selling the new products first so not a good cash flow strategy either. Since the XMC-1, RMC-1 and XMR-1 all have to be assembled in Franklin I just don't see that as being superior logic. We all know the current long delays being experienced by people waiting for their DR power amps because they have to be assembled (yes, in Franklin). So where's the logic in holding up shipping out already assembled boards for upgrading XMC-1's while XMC-1, RMC-1 and XMR-1 are assembled (yes in Franklin)? Logically it would be better for customer service to ship out what doesn't need assembly first. If mounting a cashflow argument then the same applies, get the stuff out the door fast, rather than hanging onto it waiting for something else to happen first. The fact is there is no logical reason for delaying the shipment of XMC-1 upgrades, aside from maybe some marketing spin about not wanting to detract from the new product launches by releasing the upgrades that achieve almost the same result. Of course marketing spin doctors aren't logical  Cheers Gary |
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2018 1:01:38 GMT -5
I wasn't at this show... but I've heard the setup with our speakers here at our facility.... and it sounded pretty darned good. I've also heard a few reports that our speakers sounded quite nice there at Axpona. Exactly which speakers were you assuming would be "a little more high end"..... or did you just mean "more EXPENSIVE"? I get it - it's an Emotiva setup so you want to demo as many Emotiva components as possible. My point was that as Big Dan has claimed that the RMC-1 competes with $20k+ processors, most likely those customers would not use Emotiva speakers. And at this show virtually all the speakers were more expensive than the Emotiva ones - whether they all sounded more "high end" is debatable but if someone wants to compare my two favorite speakers of the show - Revel F228Be (I'm obviously familiar with Revels) or the Magico A3 ($9800/pair) with the Emotiva towers, I'd put my money on Revel or Magico to sound noticeably better. Next take the Revel or Magico A3 and replace the pre-pro they were using with the RMC-1 (well the Revel was being driven by a Mark Levinson integrated amp  . I'd be willing to bet that the RMC-1 will not sound out of place with those speakers (or even more expensive ones). But based on the demo, I'd have no idea that the RMC-1 was that good. And yes, if the Emotiva demo as is results in more Emotiva speaker sales, then it's a success - totally agree and understand. FWIW, I really enjoyed the Emotiva room today because I got a chance to speak to Lonnie at length. |
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2018 1:16:15 GMT -5
I’ll take the XMR-1 with 200 wpc x 11 and preouts for the front 3 channels. If I want to hook up my XPR-2 to the main 2 channels and have the XMR-1 power the center, surrounds and Atmos channels. I may need to get something for the center as well. I’ll predict right here on 4/15/2018 that this is going to be the game changing product. Looking forward to fall/winter this year for its eminent release. I shared my enthusiasm in person with Lonnie and even took a picture with him lol. (maybe he will ask me to beta test haha) Oh contraire, I'll predict right here on 16/4/18 that it's one of, if not the, biggest flops that Emotiva have ever made. I just don't see why anyone would buy a big hunk of high quality AVR from Emotiva when the processor part is going to be out of date (technically) between 2 and 3 years. Leaving a big chunk of dollars wasted on power amplifiers that are working perfectly but are rendered useless by what comes in front of them. It seemed to me like a dumb idea at the time it was announced and it still seems like a dumb idea now. Cheers Gary To me one of the main challenges of Atmos is the obvious one...that you now have to buy more amps and speakers. In my case since I want 4 ceiling speakers, I need 4 more channels of amplification. With the XMR-1, I don't have to worry about getting more amps. Not only that, I can probably off-load my XPR-5 because I think 200 watts is plenty enough for all the surrounds and atmos channels. I'll probably keep the XPR-2 because I want the 600 watts to drive my F208s when I'm listening to music - 2ch mode. What a great solution to bring high-end level sound quality Atmos to more people's homes! The XMR-1 has the same basic architecture as the RMC-1 so it will stay as relevant as the RMC-1 / XMC-1 gen3. I agree it's not for everyone - some have to have better amps all around and this is obviously not for them - there is the XMC-1 gen3 / RMC-1 to take care of those customers. |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Apr 16, 2018 2:07:37 GMT -5
I had a blast blogging the show, and the Emotiva booth was one of my favorites. I was lucky enough to have a pre-show chat with Dan along with two other AVS forum members on Saturday, here's a link to that with some photos. The big things I walked away with are that Emotiva has some amazing gear coming out in the near future, and that Dan is a true enthusiast about this stuff, which is a big positive for the brand. I could see the upcoming DC-2 and those tiny PR-1 monoblocks being huge sellers, they're perfect for anyone looking to do high-quality desktop audio. |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Apr 16, 2018 2:22:01 GMT -5
I wasn't at this show... but I've heard the setup with our speakers here at our facility.... and it sounded pretty darned good. I've also heard a few reports that our speakers sounded quite nice there at Axpona. Exactly which speakers were you assuming would be "a little more high end"..... or did you just mean "more EXPENSIVE"? I get it - it's an Emotiva setup so you want to demo as many Emotiva components as possible. My point was that as Big Dan has claimed that the RMC-1 competes with $20k+ processors, most likely those customers would not use Emotiva speakers. And at this show virtually all the speakers were more expensive than the Emotiva ones - whether they all sounded more "high end" is debatable but if someone wants to compare my two favorite speakers of the show - Revel F228Be (I'm obviously familiar with Revels) or the Magico A3 ($9800/pair) with the Emotiva towers, I'd put my money on Revel or Magico to sound noticeably better. Next take the Revel or Magico A3 and replace the pre-pro they were using with the RMC-1 (well the Revel was being driven by a Mark Levinson integrated amp . I'd be willing to bet that the RMC-1 will not sound out of place with those speakers (or even more expensive ones). But based on the demo, I'd have no idea that the RMC-1 was that good. And yes, if the Emotiva demo as is results in more Emotiva speaker sales, then it's a success - totally agree and understand. FWIW, I really enjoyed the Emotiva room today because I got a chance to speak to Lonnie at length. I was very impressed by the sound quality in the Emotiva HT room. Did the Revel F228bes and Magico A3s sound much better than the stereo T1s? Yes, of course they did. But the Emotiva speakers worked very well in the HT room, and the C2 center in particular was a standout. If Dirac had been working and the room had been fully room-corrected I'm sure it would've sounded even better. Dr, Hsu gave a HT demo using 5 of his CCB8s and his smallest sub, the VTF-1 today, using a cheap Onkyo receiver to drive it all, and it also sounded very good. You don't have to spend a ton of money to get a compelling HT experience. Would I love to have a full Revel surround system with F228s all around and C763s up top? Sure, but I'd hate to write the check for all of that. While I don't think you should cheap-out on speakers for HT, I'm of the opinion that moderately priced speakers combined with good subwoofers and a solid room correction system can do a great job for HT, and that you can get by with more affordable speakers in that realm that you can with a dedicated 2-channel setup. The more surround speakers you apply the less important 2-channel soundstage and imaging become. Overkill is great, but the reality is everyone has a budget they have to work with. It would be nice to see Emotiva introduce a real ceiling speaker option, maybe one of the T2 woofers with an AMT mounted in front sort of like the Martin Logan ceiling speakers. I'm guessing the E1 arrays aren't going to be a retail product offering. |
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Post by Gary Cook on Apr 16, 2018 6:42:56 GMT -5
Oh contraire, I'll predict right here on 16/4/18 that it's one of, if not the, biggest flops that Emotiva have ever made. I just don't see why anyone would buy a big hunk of high quality AVR from Emotiva when the processor part is going to be out of date (technically) between 2 and 3 years. Leaving a big chunk of dollars wasted on power amplifiers that are working perfectly but are rendered useless by what comes in front of them. It seemed to me like a dumb idea at the time it was announced and it still seems like a dumb idea now. To me one of the main challenges of Atmos is the obvious one...that you now have to buy more amps and speakers. In my case since I want 4 ceiling speakers, I need 4 more channels of amplification. With the XMR-1, I don't have to worry about getting more amps. Not only that, I can probably off-load my XPR-5 because I think 200 watts is plenty enough for all the surrounds and atmos channels. I'll probably keep the XPR-2 because I want the 600 watts to drive my F208s when I'm listening to music - 2ch mode. What a great solution to bring high-end level sound quality Atmos to more people's homes! The XMR-1 has the same basic architecture as the RMC-1 so it will stay as relevant as the RMC-1 / XMC-1 gen3. I agree it's not for everyone - some have to have better amps all around and this is obviously not for them - there is the XMC-1 gen3 / RMC-1 to take care of those customers. Judgement based on the history, early XMC-1 adopters have lost ~2 years missing out on 4K HDR and over a year missing out on Atmos/DSTX with no fixed date to solve that. I see no reason why an XMR-1 buyer would not experience exactly the same delays. As a result risking it all on a not inexpensive one box solution seems a strange choice to me. In addition to the sound quality question of a single box, surely there isn't any cost saving involved in comparison to buying an equivalent quality power amplifier that will last a very long time, decades even, that will never really go out of date technically. Whilst I personally see no reason for an XMR-1 to exist at all, I can see some attraction for a very small number of people and an even smaller number of Emotiva customers. What I do object to is a much larger base of loyal, existing Emotiva customers that are being forced to wait even longer for their upgrades. Strange priorities at work. Cheers Gary |
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Post by davidl81 on Apr 16, 2018 9:10:02 GMT -5
To me one of the main challenges of Atmos is the obvious one...that you now have to buy more amps and speakers. In my case since I want 4 ceiling speakers, I need 4 more channels of amplification. With the XMR-1, I don't have to worry about getting more amps. Not only that, I can probably off-load my XPR-5 because I think 200 watts is plenty enough for all the surrounds and atmos channels. I'll probably keep the XPR-2 because I want the 600 watts to drive my F208s when I'm listening to music - 2ch mode. What a great solution to bring high-end level sound quality Atmos to more people's homes! The XMR-1 has the same basic architecture as the RMC-1 so it will stay as relevant as the RMC-1 / XMC-1 gen3. I agree it's not for everyone - some have to have better amps all around and this is obviously not for them - there is the XMC-1 gen3 / RMC-1 to take care of those customers. Judgement based on the history, early XMC-1 adopters have lost ~2 years missing out on 4K HDR and over a year missing out on Atmos/DSTX with no fixed date to solve that. I see no reason why an XMR-1 buyer would not experience exactly the same delays. As a result risking it all on a not inexpensive one box solution seems a strange choice to me. In addition to the sound quality question of a single box, surely there isn't any cost saving involved in comparison to buying an equivalent quality power amplifier that will last a very long time, decades even, that will never really go out of date technically. Whilst I personally see no reason for an XMR-1 to exist at all, I can see some attraction for a very small number of people and an even smaller number of Emotiva customers. What I do object to is a much larger base of loyal, existing Emotiva customers that are being forced to wait even longer for their upgrades. Strange priorities at work. Cheers Gary It looks like the XMR-1 is basically a XMC-1 G3 ($3499?) mixed with a XPA-11 ($1999). Although there may be a small difference in the power ratings per channel, I think its pretty close. If this is the case and I think the XMR-1 is going to be at a $4999 price point I do agree that I do not see the benefit of this machine personally. The cost savings is really not there as I would much rather have a separate XMC-1 and a XPA-11 (or some other amp combo) and I could change out pre-pros as needed in the future with out getting rid of a perfectly good amp. That being said I think the XMR-1 may be made for a little more main stream consumer who wants a "no compromise" one box solution. I do see a need for a product like that, just I see it being sold more by dealers than internet direct buyers. The vast majority of HT audio solutions are one box AVR's, and many of them just do not have the amp section able to drive higher end speakers. A unit like the XMR should be able to handle almost any speaker in a HT setup and drive them well. |
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richb
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Post by richb on Apr 16, 2018 9:16:16 GMT -5
Whilst I personally see no reason for an XMR-1 to exist at all, I can see some attraction for a very small number of people and an even smaller number of Emotiva customers. What I do object to is a much larger base of loyal, existing Emotiva customers that are being forced to wait even longer for their upgrades. Strange priorities at work. There is a lot of interesting aspects to the XMR-1: Class-D amplification (that's new) provides ample power for most systems, XLR outs for the Fronts and center, USB DAC (I think), single box solution, Dirac, and all the features of the new line. Very cool. I prefer the Emotiva feature set to the Japanese AVRs which retain too many useless and sometimes quality damaging features (video processing). The XMC-1 Gen 2 established a foothold in the high-end market with an excellent feature set. Emotiva is going to capitalize on that platform. We'll see how well the XMR sells. I am not an AVR guy but this is a good solution for those that are. - Rich |
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Post by KeithL on Apr 16, 2018 9:33:24 GMT -5
I guess we'll see. I would have personally agreed with you.... and I much prefer separates anyway..... But an awful lot of people DO in fact buy "high-end receivers".... so I guess THEY feel otherwise. I also do have another thought there... I wonder how many people are simply convinced that they've finally reached "home theater nirvana". How quickly the current technology "becomes obsolete" will depend on how many people want whatever comes next. I've talked to a lot of people who have no plans whatsoever to upgrade to anything after 4k (and some who aren't even upgrading TO 4k). They're simply convinced that 4k is as good as they could possibly want... and they're either not even interested in height channels now, or have no desire whatsoever to upgrade again in a few years. For those people, a really good 4k receiver may actually be their "end game system". I'll have to admit that, even though I firmly believe that separates deliver better sound quality, I can't quite imagine what I would be willing to pay for as an "upgrade" from 4k. I’ll take the XMR-1 with 200 wpc x 11 and preouts for the front 3 channels. If I want to hook up my XPR-2 to the main 2 channels and have the XMR-1 power the center, surrounds and Atmos channels. I may need to get something for the center as well. I’ll predict right here on 4/15/2018 that this is going to be the game changing product. Looking forward to fall/winter this year for its eminent release. I shared my enthusiasm in person with Lonnie and even took a picture with him lol. (maybe he will ask me to beta test haha) Oh contraire, I'll predict right here on 16/4/18 that it's one of, if not the, biggest flops that Emotiva have ever made. I just don't see why anyone would buy a big hunk of high quality AVR from Emotiva when the processor part is going to be out of date (technically) between 2 and 3 years. Leaving a big chunk of dollars wasted on power amplifiers that are working perfectly but are rendered useless by what comes in front of them. It seemed to me like a dumb idea at the time it was announced and it still seems like a dumb idea now. Cheers Gary |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 16, 2018 10:19:33 GMT -5
I guess we'll see. I would have personally agreed with you.... and I much prefer separates anyway..... But an awful lot of people DO in fact buy "high-end receivers".... so I guess THEY feel otherwise. I also do have another thought there... I wonder how many people are simply convinced that they've finally reached "home theater nirvana". How quickly the current technology "becomes obsolete" will depend on how many people want whatever comes next. I've talked to a lot of people who have no plans whatsoever to upgrade to anything after 4k (and some who aren't even upgrading TO 4k). They're simply convinced that 4k is as good as they could possibly want... and they're either not even interested in height channels now, or have no desire whatsoever to upgrade again in a few years. For those people, a really good 4k receiver may actually be their "end game system". I'll have to admit that, even though I firmly believe that separates deliver better sound quality, I can't quite imagine what I would be willing to pay for as an "upgrade" from 4k. Oh contraire, I'll predict right here on 16/4/18 that it's one of, if not the, biggest flops that Emotiva have ever made. I just don't see why anyone would buy a big hunk of high quality AVR from Emotiva when the processor part is going to be out of date (technically) between 2 and 3 years. Leaving a big chunk of dollars wasted on power amplifiers that are working perfectly but are rendered useless by what comes in front of them. It seemed to me like a dumb idea at the time it was announced and it still seems like a dumb idea now. Cheers Gary I know that 8k will come, but it will be a niche because basically no one will need it. 4k is the end for most people. Same goes for audio. 7.1.6 is going to be the end for most people. Anything beyond that is purely niche. Sure there will be products that go farther, but the demand will be so low that they will never become mainstream. Forget about $500 receivers with 9.4.12. Bottom line, we are living in a time where things are reaching certain limits. |
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2018 10:34:57 GMT -5
It looks like the XMR-1 is basically a XMC-1 G3 ($3499?) mixed with a XPA-11 ($1999). Although there may be a small difference in the power ratings per channel, I think its pretty close. If this is the case and I think the XMR-1 is going to be at a $4999 price point I do agree that I do not see the benefit of this machine personally. The cost savings is really not there as I would much rather have a separate XMC-1 and a XPA-11 (or some other amp combo) and I could change out pre-pros as needed in the future with out getting rid of a perfectly good amp. That being said I think the XMR-1 may be made for a little more main stream consumer who wants a "no compromise" one box solution. I do see a need for a product like that, just I see it being sold more by dealers than internet direct buyers. The vast majority of HT audio solutions are one box AVR's, and many of them just do not have the amp section able to drive higher end speakers. A unit like the XMR should be able to handle almost any speaker in a HT setup and drive them well. I wholeheartedly agree with you if the XMR-1 was $4999, then I also don’t see a point getting it over the XMC-1 gen3 for me personally. The success of the XMR-1 will be very dependent on price. I heard $3999 price point at Axpona which was why I was so excited. And it’s not quite the same as XPA-11 since it will be all class D amps. Like any receivers, low end or high end, if there isn’t a value proposition added then going with separates would be preferable. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Apr 16, 2018 10:41:46 GMT -5
I guess we'll see. I would have personally agreed with you.... and I much prefer separates anyway..... But an awful lot of people DO in fact buy "high-end receivers".... so I guess THEY feel otherwise. I also do have another thought there... I wonder how many people are simply convinced that they've finally reached "home theater nirvana". How quickly the current technology "becomes obsolete" will depend on how many people want whatever comes next. I've talked to a lot of people who have no plans whatsoever to upgrade to anything after 4k (and some who aren't even upgrading TO 4k). They're simply convinced that 4k is as good as they could possibly want... and they're either not even interested in height channels now, or have no desire whatsoever to upgrade again in a few years. For those people, a really good 4k receiver may actually be their "end game system". I'll have to admit that, even though I firmly believe that separates deliver better sound quality, I can't quite imagine what I would be willing to pay for as an "upgrade" from 4k. I know that 8k will come, but it will be a niche because basically no one will need it. 4k is the end for most people. Same goes for audio. 7.1.6 is going to be the end for most people. Anything beyond that is purely niche. Sure there will be products that go farther, but the demand will be so low that they will never become mainstream. Forget about $500 receivers with 9.4.12. Bottom line, we are living in a time where things are reaching certain limits. I don't buy that at all. Technology marches forward. Always has and always will. When 4K was first introduced it was not cheap. It's now the norm in TV's. People complained that they could not see the difference in picture quality over 1080p. Those same people, I know some, can now see the difference because the cost has dropped significantly. I'm sure the same will hold true for 8K and so on. 4K is still in it's relative infancy. ATSC 3.0 has been in the works for the last couple of years and will eventually make it's way into our lives depending on cost/benefit ratio. I live in the Washington DC area and remember going to an event at the Tysons Corner Myer Emco for the first over the air broadcast of HDTV. It was on Channel 26, WETA. Big event. The set was a $10K 34 inch Sony XBR tube set. The picture was unbelievable to us in attendance. We thought, "how can it be any better than this?" We have hit the pinnacle! This is it! No better! Then we heard the presenter from WTTG say, "This is the first and worse HDTV picture you will ever see". Meaning, technology marches forward and will always get better. In my lifetime, reaching limits has never happened. |
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Post by Bonzo on Apr 16, 2018 10:53:00 GMT -5
I know that 8k will come, but it will be a niche because basically no one will need it. 4k is the end for most people. Same goes for audio. 7.1.6 is going to be the end for most people. Anything beyond that is purely niche. Sure there will be products that go farther, but the demand will be so low that they will never become mainstream. Forget about $500 receivers with 9.4.12. Bottom line, we are living in a time where things are reaching certain limits. I don't buy that at all. Technology marches forward. Always has and always will. When 4K was first introduced it was not cheap. It's now the norm in TV's. People complained that they could not see the difference in picture quality over 1080p. Those same people, I know some, can now see the difference because the cost has dropped significantly. I'm sure the same will hold true for 8K and so on. 4K is still in it's relative infancy. ATSC 3.0 has been in the works for the last couple of years and will eventually make it's way into our lives depending on cost/benefit ratio. I live in the Washington DC area and remember going to an event at the Tysons Corner Myer Emco for the first over the air broadcast of HDTV. It was on Channel 26, WETA. Big event. The set was a $10K 34 inch Sony XBR tube set. The picture was unbelievable to us in attendance. We thought, "how can it be any better than this?" We have hit the pinnacle! This is it! No better! Then we heard the presenter from WTTG say, "This is the first and worse HDTV picture you will ever see". Meaning, technology marches forward and will always get better. In my lifetime, reaching limits has never happened. There is only so much resolution the human eye can see. 4K resolution is not better than HD for most people. Its the other tech like HDR that makes the differences. 8K by itself will mean nothing for almost everyone. Same goes for the speakers. There is only so much most normal people are willing to accept. It is reaching that point now. Of course things will advance, but we are quickly reaching the point of very little real improvment at each step. In other words, from here on out the improvements will be incremental, not dramatic. Once its gets real, there is no better. There will be less and less reason to upgrade just to upgrade. Instead, uprades will happen when the old piece of equipment dies. |
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Post by tutetibiimperes on Apr 16, 2018 10:56:12 GMT -5
I don't buy that at all. Technology marches forward. Always has and always will. When 4K was first introduced it was not cheap. It's now the norm in TV's. People complained that they could not see the difference in picture quality over 1080p. Those same people, I know some, can now see the difference because the cost has dropped significantly. I'm sure the same will hold true for 8K and so on. 4K is still in it's relative infancy. ATSC 3.0 has been in the works for the last couple of years and will eventually make it's way into our lives depending on cost/benefit ratio. I live in the Washington DC area and remember going to an event at the Tysons Corner Myer Emco for the first over the air broadcast of HDTV. It was on Channel 26, WETA. Big event. The set was a $10K 34 inch Sony XBR tube set. The picture was unbelievable to us in attendance. We thought, "how can it be any better than this?" We have hit the pinnacle! This is it! No better! Then we heard the presenter from WTTG say, "This is the first and worse HDTV picture you will ever see". Meaning, technology marches forward and will always get better. In my lifetime, reaching limits has never happened. There is only so much resolution the human eye can see. 4K resolution is not better than HD for most people. Its the other tech like HDR that makes the differences. 8K by itself will mean nothing for almost everyone. Same goes for the speakers. There is only so much most normal people are willing to accept. It is reaching that point now. Of course things will advance, but we are quickly reaching the point of very little real improvment at each step. In other words, from here on out the improvements will be incremental, not dramatic. Once its gets real, there is no better. There will be less and less reason to upgrade just to upgrade. Instead, uprades will happen when the old piece of equipment dies. Other than 8K, higher frame rates and VRR for 4K content is coming with HDMI 2.1 (along with eARC, dynamic HDR10, and some other benefits). The nice thing with the Emotiva gear is that the company is already working on HDMI 2.1 upgrade boards for the RMC-1 and XMR-1 (though it wasn't explicitly stated I'd imagine they'd work with the XMC-1 as well). The coolest thing about it from what Dan said is that they'll be end-user upgradeable, so Emotiva will just ship you the board, you undo a couple of screws, and pop the new board in. Dan equated it to being as easy as installing new RAM in a PC. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Apr 16, 2018 11:14:28 GMT -5
I have found Atmos with ceiling speakers to be particularly difficult to adopt to.
How many people who are downplaying the significance of the XMR-1 actually have Atmos using separates or are really planning on implementing Atmos with ceiling speakers?
For me, getting Atmos is a nice to have and not a must. I get plenty of entertainment out of my 7.1 setup and every movie I watch sound fantastic. And I agree that the demands on home theater is a little less than 2 channel high end audio. So other than the front 3 channels, the built-in class D amplifiers will be plenty good enough and give us an easier path to achieving Atmos. I’m assuming these class D amps are similar to what Emotiva demo’d previously several years ago which sounded very good.
So, high end 2 channel with an easier road to Atmos, its going to be amazing- I can’t wait until this happens. I’m surprised more people aren’t as excited to get their hands on the XMR-1.
Speaking of which, I think the XMR-1, if it was functional would have been a better match with the Emotiva speakers at Axpona. People want simple, XMR-1 plus 7.2.4 Emotiva speakers would achieve just that.
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bootman
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Post by bootman on Apr 16, 2018 11:15:52 GMT -5
No one remembers the DMR and how that $3K AVR didn't sell well 10 years ago?
I don't see what has changed in the market that shows a $5K AVR selling, but I guess we will see.
Arcam's AVR850 lists for $6K and also has Dirac so I guess that is the direct competition but NAD's T-758 v3 at $1.5K and Dirac now appears to be a great value. (but only 5.1.2 Atmos)
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Namely that the RMC-1, XMC-1 Gen 3 and XMC-1 Gen 2 Atmos upgrade DSP boards are all the same or a very similar design based on previous analysis posted just prior to this post and also discussed by me back in January. Assuming I am correct then from an engineering perspective one would develop the highest specification product first and then just scale back/remove/disable features/capabilities for the lower specification/lower cost products. A manufacturer wouldn't want to work from the bottom up in case something in the design needs changing later to support the higher spec solution.
. I'd be willing to bet that the RMC-1 will not sound out of place with those speakers (or even more expensive ones). But based on the demo, I'd have no idea that the RMC-1 was that good. 
