KlineMJ's Review of the Sonore ultraRendu

[kenj]

Here is the link to the bridging architecture and reported sound improvements I referenced. It was the next improvement step after going Rendu + LPS.

"They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?tab=comments#comment-613370



The easiest solution for me would be to just load Roon Core on my HTPC (HTPC -> Ethernet -> UR+LPS and also connect HTPC HDMI to XMC-1 for movies and Multi-channel music). I could bridge the HTPC as well w/PCS Ethernet.



I'm also curious how much money is need to get a notably better DAC vs. XMC-1 and if that is a worthwhile pursuit.


Regardless it was interesting to read your comments about the benefit of the UR + LPS and with Green Apple a more affordable stack w/LPS. At a minimum I want to do that.

[klinemj]

Sept 24, 2018 12:52:13 GMT -5 kenj said:

Here is the link to the bridging architecture and reported sound improvements I referenced. It was the next improvement step after going Rendu + LPS.

"They [Roon Core and Roon Ready] talk using RAAT but when they are in the same device they do not need to use the not-so-good comms layers that sit underneath RAAT when the two apps talk across a network."

www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?tab=comments#comment-613370



The easiest solution for me would be to just load Roon Core on my HTPC (HTPC -> Ethernet -> UR+LPS and also connect HTPC HDMI to XMC-1 for movies and Multi-channel music). I could bridge the HTPC as well w/PCS Ethernet.



I'm also curious how much money is need to get a notably better DAC vs. XMC-1 and if that is a worthwhile pursuit.


Regardless it was interesting to read your comments about the benefit of the UR + LPS and with Green Apple a more affordable stack w/LPS. At a minimum I want to do that.

I suppose the thing the guy talks about it worth trying. I'd be interested to know what you think if you try it. While I am skeptical about its improvements, I've been surprised before by the microrendu and ultrarendu.

I would definitely reco the SGC power supply. It's as good as the uptone LPS-1 and a lot cheaper.

On DAC's...you can spend a lot for sure. For me, the DC-1 as is and the XMC-1 are on par with each other. With the DC-2, Lonnie and Dan say it's a step up but I have not heard the final version yet. I really love my LH Labs Geek and got it for ~$900. I looked at a range of them from ~$500 to $2500 that were alleged to be amazing but I didn't get as far as listening to them because an issue I had w/the Geek got resolved. Recently, novisnick has been really enjoying his Mytek...that's worth a look for sure.

Mark

[novisnick]

Im currently working on a reply to this conversation as some of the data is dated and newer technology should be implemented in a different manor.
I’ll go into detail when Ive finish with it.

[klinemj]

kenj

I just looked at my PC that has my Roon core and I have a PCIe x1 slot open, and Amazon had a network adapter card available for $14.99 So, I ordered it. It looks really easy with Windows 10 to bridge the connections, so I am going to give it a try. I'll report what I find out.

Mark

[kenj]

Sept 24, 2018 16:49:50 GMT -5 klinemj said:

kenj

I just looked at my PC that has my Roon core and I have a PCIe x1 slot open, and Amazon had a network adapter card available for $14.99 So, I ordered it. It looks really easy with Windows 10 to bridge the connections, so I am going to give it a try. I'll report what I find out.

Mark

Awesome! I look forward to your findings. I really valued reading about the UR and lower cost PS and I'm curious about the bridging value.


Looking forward to novisnick's comments as well.

[novisnick]

Sept 24, 2018 17:34:29 GMT -5 kenj said:

Sept 24, 2018 16:49:50 GMT -5 klinemj said:

kenj

I just looked at my PC that has my Roon core and I have a PCIe x1 slot open, and Amazon had a network adapter card available for $14.99 So, I ordered it. It looks really easy with Windows 10 to bridge the connections, so I am going to give it a try. I'll report what I find out.

Mark

Awesome! I look forward to your findings. I really valued reading about the UR and lower cost PS and I'm curious about the bridging value.


Looking forward to novisnick's comments as well.

kenj Ive had a much harder time believing what was stated in your linked artical. Mostly, its dated and behind the times and technology.

I too look forward to Marks findings. I’ll leave it at that for the moment 

[klinemj]

I am also skeptical, but for $15 and a few minutes to install and set up...what the heck!?!? Might as well try.

Also novisnick, while the article is not brand new - it looks like it's from 2017, and I doubt anything changed regarding the "underlying comms" that the article cites as the basis have changed since then. Net, if that's the underlying reason for an improvement, I should hear it if it's real.

Mark

[novisnick]

Not sure but some things change very rapidly.
The artical is 17 months old, we’ll find out soon enough! 😁

[sahmen]

I am also interested in what enhancement this bridging architecture will bring... If it does work as they promise, it would seem easy enough to implement.

On the other hand, the experimenting and modding evolves rapidly on that thread, with various modalities of bridging, clocking, reclocking, and switching, not to mention the introduction of a whole catalog of gadgets and thingamabobs that I actually find too intimidating to try out myself. The SOtM trifecta grows bigger and bigger in importance, as it meanders through a whole series experimentations, some of which are catalogued in that index one finds toward the end of that first post... Those guys on Computer audiophile are certainly one passionate lot, and that is an understatement

[klinemj]

Sept 24, 2018 21:01:25 GMT -5 sahmen said:

On the other hand, the experimenting and modding evolves rapidly on that thread, with various modalities of bridging, clocking, reclocking, and switching, not to mention the introduction of a whole catalog of gadgets and thingamabobs that I actually find too intimidating to try out myself. The SOtM trifecta grows bigger and bigger in importance, as it meanders through a whole series experimentations, some of which are catalogued in that index one finds toward the end of that first post... Those guys on Computer audiophile are certainly one passionate lot, and that is an understatement

I just took the time to read the details they list on bridging, and I am VERY glad I read it up front! There's an important "to do" before one attempts to bridge the 2 ports. Now I know that, so I should be prepared once the new adapter arrives. It has been shipped and left California yesterday but no tracking updates since then.

And, you are correct - the guys on CA certainly are passionate and are far more knowledgeable than I am on all things computer related.

Mark

[novisnick]

Hey, klinemj I just stepped into CA ince again and boy was I sinking deep fast. I familiar with some of it but then,,,,,?? WHAT?? 🤪

Pretty good reading!

[klinemj]

Sept 26, 2018 15:15:39 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Hey, klinemj I just stepped into CA ince again and boy was I sinking deep fast. I familiar with some of it but then,,,,,?? WHAT?? 🤪

Pretty good reading!

Yeah - me, too! It's just barely easier to read than the ones people write about how to do things on a Raspberry Pi! Those people talk in an entirely different language - full of code and buzzwords that fully lose me. I spend more time surfing the web to find out what a buzzword means when I try to read their stuff, and for every one I look up - I have to look up another to figure out what they say. Before long I'm back to the beginning of the buzzword circle and still don't know what they said.

Mark

[klinemj]

I got my extra ethernet card installed and set up the bridge - which was easy to do. But, when I tried to play through Roon, it didn't work well. First of all, for some reason, with the bridge installed - my PC that had the Roon core on it could not see my router. So, it could not see my NAS that had my ripped library on it. I decided to play from Tidal via Roon, and it was very laggy and kept telling me I had a network connectivity issue. It would play a few note, stop, then start again, etc.

I may give it another go, but so far - not working right.

Mark

[klinemj]

I'm going to give it a 2nd try tomorrow. Updated drivers - now both card have the most up to date drivers...one was really out of date. And, I had the PC plugged into my gigabit switch...now it's plugged directly into the router. I'll also try with the incoming internet line going to the new network card to make sure it is working well on its own. Then, bridge from it to the one on my PC's motherboard. Certainly the way I had it didn't work...we'll see if I can go to extremes and make it work.

Mark

[novisnick]

Sept 29, 2018 9:24:57 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I got my extra ethernet card installed and set up the bridge - which was easy to do. But, when I tried to play through Roon, it didn't work well. First of all, for some reason, with the bridge installed - my PC that had the Roon core on it could not see my router. So, it could not see my NAS that had my ripped library on it. I decided to play from Tidal via Roon, and it was very laggy and kept telling me I had a network connectivity issue. It would play a few note, stop, then start again, etc.

I may give it another go, but so far - not working right.

Mark

Universal installation device! 

[klinemj]

Sept 29, 2018 13:46:38 GMT -5 novisnick said:

Sept 29, 2018 9:24:57 GMT -5 klinemj said:

I got my extra ethernet card installed and set up the bridge - which was easy to do. But, when I tried to play through Roon, it didn't work well. First of all, for some reason, with the bridge installed - my PC that had the Roon core on it could not see my router. So, it could not see my NAS that had my ripped library on it. I decided to play from Tidal via Roon, and it was very laggy and kept telling me I had a network connectivity issue. It would play a few note, stop, then start again, etc.

I may give it another go, but so far - not working right.

Mark

Universal installation device! 

I almost had to break that out...the adapter wouldn't fit into the sockets. Turns out, it had 2 screws that join the electrical part to the part that fits into the computer can and the electrical part was misaligned...a little alignment and all was fine. Except...it didn't work well!

Stay tuned for tomorrow's episode of "The Nerd Hacker"

Mark

[novisnick]

Tomorrow’s episode!

[klinemj]

Despite multiple attempts again today, no luck.

I decided to try to use my new Ethernet adapter as the primary connection and the old (integrated on motherboard) as secondary. Once again, the system showed a bridged connection and it looked fine. The primary connection was able to still get internet (after setting the bridged connection to the proper IP info). But, the same problem persisted...the bridged connection can't get to the router, so Roon can't see my FLAC files on my NAS that's attached to the router, and when I try to play from Tidal - it has huge lag and stutters so bad it won't play through a song w/o more dead time than music (then I get an error saying there are network connection issues).

I even thought "let me take the old ethernet port out of the equation" and tried using WiFi as the primary and the new card to send info to the Rendu. Same results.

I did do some web surfing and saw some people reporting issues w/Bridged Networks after the Windows Creator Update, but they mostly seemed like issues not being able to create a bridge at all. I saw a couple about the bridge running slow but most people kept referring those folks to threads about the Creators update so they got no help.

I may surf the web more looking for help or sign on to Computer Audiophile and see if I can get help there. I did see something about possibly needing to change a setting in the router...need to go look for that. But, that will be a few days.

Glad this experiment only cost $15 and a couple hours in total.

Mark

[sahmen]

Well, in other news, you can now stream Tidal and Qobuz directly from Ultrarendu (i.e. independently of roon) with an update to the latest version of the Ultrarendu software. The announcement and related Instructions are available here:

www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/31811-sonore-ultrarendu/?page=43&tab=comments#comment-880761

Qobuz itself is interesting for hi-res files, and is about to be made officially available in the US. They're offering a 3-month free trial with the promotion code CEDIA2018. For instructions on getting access, see this post and the following ones on the Roonlabs forum :

community.roonlabs.com/t/qobuz-integration-again/47145/136?u=sahmen

Note: one would need Linn Kazoo to stream Tidal and Qobuz from the Ultrarendu in this way. It seems Roon and Qobuz are currently discussing a partnership, and when that happens, and Roon is integrated with both Tidal and Qobuz, the Linn Kazoo software will no longer be needed.

[klinemj]

Very cool...been surfing the web, and I find all sorts of posts about issues with network bridges, but nothing that helps solve the issue (so far!).

Mark