klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 3, 2018 8:53:37 GMT -5
As most of you know, I was trying a Sonore microRendu I borrowed from sahmen (Thanks!). That convinced me to buy the Sonore ultraRendu and the Small Green Computer 7v power supply (UR/SGC combo from here on or UR for short). A link to the thoughts on the microRendu (and Roon) follows. But first, let me just jump to a conclusion: my system has never sounded better than what I am hearing now through the UR/SGC. And, that's despite me having a nagging sinus problem the last few days that is clogging my ears a bit. I'll elaborate more after the link... --->Click here for the microRendu related review<---First, I'm using Roon to select tunes from my NAS and/or Tidal. My Roon core is on a little PC that sits next to my rack and is also used for running Dirac. The PC, the NAS, and the UR are all hardwired to my gigabit speed local network. Digital sound comes out of the UR and goes to my LH Labs Geek Pulse x-infinity DAC, then XLR out to my XMC-1 which is set to reference stereo. XMC-1 FR/FL outputs run to my PrimaLuna tube amp with KT-88 tubes, and from there - sound goes to my Magnepan 1.7's. The XMC-1 controls volume. My Rythmik sub is also playing thanks to my trick setup that lets me have sub in reference stereo (per another thread). So, I turned on the tube amp and let the tubes get toasty this AM while I had coffee and then went to listen. For perspective, I tend to think of audio systems on the following scale: - "Good" means nothing irritates my and it's fine for casual listening - but some details/layers of sound may get blurred together. - "Very Good" means I can start to hear separation of "layers" of sound...things that might sound like 1 singer suddenly start sounding like there are probably 2 or more singing in close harmony. Or 1 guitar suddenly sounds like 2 or more playing closely together. - "Excellent" means I am fully sure that the "blur" of sound is definitely different layers - but I may be wondering "is that 2 singers or 3?" And, I'm hearing some subtle details of each one. - "Exceptional" means I am am very sure I'm hearing every different singer, every different instrument - and I am definitely hearing subtle details...variations in voices, little details of notes on a stringed instrument, etc. I'd say that my system prior to the microRendu was actually at "very good" and I thought it was better. With the microRendu, it moved up to at least "excellent" With the UR/SGC...it's at "exceptional". I didn't think the levels of detail I am hearing were present on the recordings. But, they are. I went back to all the music I mentioned in the MR review (link above), and the amazing thing is what the system does with music that I liked but felt was poorly recorded/engineered. The most clear example is Linda Ronstadt's older work. In it with my original system, it sounds at times like Linda is either standing at the back of the stage or has a blanket over her head as she sings. She's just distant and muffled. With the MR, the blanket is switched out for a lightweight towel. With the UR/SGC...there's not a towel. She's fully present with the band and even more details of her voice become clear. So, I'll say it...you know you want to hear it..."a veil has been lifted". LOL! Everything else I listened to so far is giving me the same impression. Hopefully my ears will clear out fully in a day or so, then I'll get to more listening and comparing the UR to the MR and the uptone LPS-1 power supply to the SGC power supply. That's all for now! Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 3, 2018 8:54:01 GMT -5
My sinuses finally cleared out enough for me to give the Sonore ultraRendu (UR) and the Sonore microRendu (MR) another listen. I used the same setup I used for my initial review of the MR (see link in post above for that full review). I alternated having the UR (then the MR & then the UR again) going USB out to my Geek Pulse xinfinity DAC, XLR out to my XMC-1 in reference stereo (but wired so I can have sub signal, per another thread), then to my PrimaLuna tube amp and Maggies and Rythmik F25 sub. I started with the UR using my Small Green Computer 7v power supply (SGC, so UR/SGC), then switched to the MR using the SGC, then switched to the MR using the UpTone Audio ultracap LPS-1 (UC) I have on loan from sahmen, then went back to the UR/SGC combo. I started with Steely Dan's "Black Cow" from Aja, then went to Grateful Dead's "Ripple" from American Beauty (last remaster), Miles Davis' "So What" from Kinda Blue, and Oscar Peterson's "You Look Good to Me" from We Get Requests. I listen to these tracks a lot so I know them well, and I found some big and favorable differences on these tracks vs. my old setup (PC USB out to Geek DAC played via jRiver or Tidal or Roon). Here's my overall conclusion...I prefer the UR over the MR. The power supplies are a toss-up for me at this point (SEE UPDATE AT END!). My reasons for preferring the UR over the MR are: 1) Sonic clarity & richness 2) Form factor Form factor is easy to explain...the MR is very small and has cables coming in one end and going out the other. The UR is larger and all cables go in and out of the back. So, it's easier to fit in with all the other gear in my stand. On sonic clarity & richness, my initial impressions of the UR were upheld. I'm hearing more clarity across the whole frequency range. Bass seems tighter to the point that it actually sounds lower. The mid and high end are so clear that so many little details are obvious vs. slightly muted. And, noise floor? What noise floor? What I used to think was silent before is now dead black of night silent. Also, notes sound more fully presented/more rich...plucks on a string and voices have the full depth of sound they should. A few examples... On Ripple, at various points Jerry, Bob, and another person are singing in close harmony with Bob to Jerry's stage left and the other singer sounding like he's just stage right of Jerry. In the past, I don't think I could tell you with 100% certainty that the singer to Jerry's left was Bob...but it sure is and it's very clear. All the little variations of Bob's voice are clear. And the singer to Jerry's right...not sure but I think it's Phil Lesh (I'm just not that familiar with his voice from that era, and I think it's changed a bit over the years)...I hear so much more separation vs. Jerry and so many more variations in his voice. And, Jerry's voice stands out more over the instruments vs. partially blending in. And, the instruments tell the same story...more details, more separation of individual instruments and notes. On "You Look Good to Me", Oscar's piano sounds much more real. The intro bass portion with the bass player using a bow are so much more rich, and then when he starts using his fingers...each pluck is more clear. The same is true on "So What". Also on "So What", little details of the horn work are more obvious. On Black Cow, the backup singers are again - more clearly distinct from each other and subtle variations in their voices are more obvious. And, the bass is more clear/tighter to the extent that it sounds louder/lower. All that said - the MR is NO SLOUCH at all. It easily bested what I had before. But, for me, the UR bested the MR in sound by enough to make it worth it for me. Add on top a preferred form factor for me, and I've got zero regrets from spending the extra $. On the power supplies, as noted, are a toss up for me (SEE BELOW!). The MR sounded the same with either one. Hopefully in the next few days, I'll be able to listen to the UR with both the SGC and the UC, but I am not anticipating a difference. There is 1 thing I do like about the SGC...it has a power switch. The UC does not, so the only way to power it and the MR down is by unplugging.
So, I had a chance to listen to the UR with both the SGC power supply and the UC power supply. In this listening, I actually preferred the SGC a little...stress...a "little". I felt there was more clarity overall and more tightness to the bass response. I will have to add a caveat...the UC power supply had been off for a few days while the SGC had been plugged in. So, maybe the difference would go away if I left the UC plugged in and it were warmer. But, that's what I heard. In any case, they are very close and the SGC is less costly ($160 unless bundled with a MR or UR and then it's something like $140 vs. $395 for the UC) AND the SGC has a power switch (which I like). At a minimum, I can say that SGC makes a very nice, reasonably priced power supply.That's all folks! Mark |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 3, 2018 14:22:44 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in, but when did you switch to tube amps? I must have missed that thread.
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Post by pedrocols on Aug 3, 2018 14:45:59 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in, but when did you switch to tube amps? I must have missed that thread. I have suggested for him to get tubes for ever and ever and ever and ever....l also have maggies and it doesn't take long to realize they love tubes...😂😂 |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 3, 2018 16:04:56 GMT -5
Sorry to jump in, but when did you switch to tube amps? I must have missed that thread. I still have the hypex, but I tend to use the tube amp for most 2 channel (I can easily toggle back and forth). A couple years ago I made the mistake of stopping into Audible Elegance to see what was new and say "hi" to Mark (the sales guy I use). He walked me around and they had a demo model they were selling at a reasonable price. He let me take it home and I went back and paid for it and it's never gone back to them. --->Here's a link about it<---Mark |
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Post by sahmen on Aug 3, 2018 17:24:20 GMT -5
subbed
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 7, 2018 10:42:13 GMT -5
Updated in 2nd post to add comparisons on the ultraRendu vs. the microRendu, as well as some thoughts on the different power supplies I have on hand.
Long story short: my initial impressions that I prefer the ultraRendu over the microRendu were upheld.
Mark
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Post by novisnick on Aug 7, 2018 11:18:58 GMT -5
Updated in 2nd post to add comparisons on the ultraRendu vs. the microRendu, as well as some thoughts on the different power supplies I have on hand. Long story short: my initial impressions that I prefer the ultraRendu over the microRendu were upheld. Mark Didn’t I tell you this story? LOL |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 7, 2018 12:26:26 GMT -5
Updated in 2nd post to add comparisons on the ultraRendu vs. the microRendu, as well as some thoughts on the different power supplies I have on hand. Long story short: my initial impressions that I prefer the ultraRendu over the microRendu were upheld. Mark Didn’t I tell you this story? LOL It is eerily similar...isn't it? LOL! Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 7, 2018 12:43:58 GMT -5
Didn’t I tell you this story? LOL It is eerily similar...isn't it? LOL! Mark Some s’mores the kids and a campfire in the woods would make a perfect storyline! Bahahaha
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 7, 2018 13:26:36 GMT -5
Long story short: my initial impressions that I prefer the ultraRendu over the microRendu were upheld. Mark My results were the same. Congrats on finding a setup you like.  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 7, 2018 13:56:03 GMT -5
Long story short: my initial impressions that I prefer the ultraRendu over the microRendu were upheld. Mark My results were the same. Congrats on finding a setup you like. Thank you for your comments along the way. I honestly wasn't giving these devices sufficient credit, and comments by you, sahmen, novisnick, and others got me intrigued. I guess it just goes to show that, as someone said - you don't know how good it can be until you experience it. Mark |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Aug 7, 2018 14:01:16 GMT -5
My results were the same. Congrats on finding a setup you like. Thank you for your comments along the way. I honestly wasn't giving these devices sufficient credit, and comments by you, sahmen, novisnick, and others got me intrigued. I guess it just goes to show that, as someone said - you don't know how good it can be until you experience it. Mark Exactly, which is why I don't like it when anyone poo-poos an idea or a thing until they try it. Even cables and magic rocks and other snake oil, if I'm honest. Try it. Perception is king. |
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Post by brubacca on Aug 7, 2018 15:55:59 GMT -5
Another Convert!!! Yeah! Enjoy...
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 7, 2018 19:35:09 GMT -5
You know, when Emotiva talked about a "thin client streamer" as an expansion board for the RMC-1 and as a stand alone unit, it was something like this I hoped for. I'd still like to see their option, and I would give it a try.
Mark
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 11, 2018 4:25:08 GMT -5
...Linda Ronstadt's older work. In it with my original system, it sounds at times like Linda is either standing at the back of the stage or has a blanket over her head as she sings. She's just distant and muffled. With the MR, the blanket is switched out for a lightweight towel. With the UR/SGC...there's not a towel. She's fully present with the band and even more details of her voice become clear. So, I'll say it...you know you want to hear it..."a veil has been lifted". LOL! Hi Mark - This brings up a very interesting question - Is the change in Linda's voice actually on the recording or not? If so, then your components that "lift veils" are actually distorting what they're being fed. If not, then your components (the MR & UR/SGC) are truly "lifting veils." This is, ultimately, a relativistic question, and without having a "source reference" recording, you may never know whether or not your components are accurate or merely euphonic. This is just another way of saying that you can't tell whether the muffling of Linda's voice was really on the recording or not. Is it possible that the "extra detail" you're hearing is from a slight frequency response bump in the presence range? The only conclusion that can really be drawn is that your MR & UR/SGC combo either sounds better to you (or not). This is the dilemma for all reviewers. Unless you were present at the original performance, you're at the mercy of the recording. Great review, by the way - thanks! Boom |
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Post by brubacca on Aug 11, 2018 7:41:58 GMT -5
Boomzilla You have a 200 page thread started in 2014. I'd bet there arent't 10 consecutive pages with the same gear (your own gear not including review stuff). By my recollection you have had a xpa-2 at least 3 times! I just can't believe that we can't get you to try one of these small devices.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 11, 2018 7:46:51 GMT -5
...Linda Ronstadt's older work. In it with my original system, it sounds at times like Linda is either standing at the back of the stage or has a blanket over her head as she sings. She's just distant and muffled. With the MR, the blanket is switched out for a lightweight towel. With the UR/SGC...there's not a towel. She's fully present with the band and even more details of her voice become clear. So, I'll say it...you know you want to hear it..."a veil has been lifted". LOL! Hi Mark - This brings up a very interesting question - Is the change in Linda's voice actually on the recording or not? If so, then your components that "lift veils" are actually distorting what they're being fed. If not, then your components (the MR & UR/SGC) are truly "lifting veils." This is, ultimately, a relativistic question, and without having a "source reference" recording, you may never know whether or not your components are accurate or merely euphonic. This is just another way of saying that you can't tell whether the muffling of Linda's voice was really on the recording or not. Is it possible that the "extra detail" you're hearing is from a slight frequency response bump in the presence range? The only conclusion that can really be drawn is that your MR & UR/SGC combo either sounds better to you (or not). This is the dilemma for all reviewers. Unless you were present at the original performance, you're at the mercy of the recording. Great review, by the way - thanks! Boom A very good point and there's no way for me to know for sure. Given what I am hearing across the board (see comments about bass, mids, and highs across many different recordings) and how suddenly I can hear little details that got obscured before (and these are coming across a range of frequencies) - I feel pretty confident that all I am hearing is truly in the recordings, and not just on Linda's stuff. In other words, I think it's unlikely to be a frequency bump since I hear the change across a range of frequencies. I think it's noise reduction playing a major part. And, thanks for the comment about the review...appreciate that. Mark |
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Post by Boomzilla on Aug 11, 2018 8:14:33 GMT -5
Boomzilla You have a 200 page thread started in 2014. I'd bet there arent't 10 consecutive pages with the same gear (your own gear not including review stuff). By my recollection you have had a xpa-2 at least 3 times! I just can't believe that we can't get you to try one of these small devices. Believe it, hot rod! LOL |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 11, 2018 10:44:12 GMT -5
Hi Mark - This brings up a very interesting question - Is the change in Linda's voice actually on the recording or not? If so, then your components that "lift veils" are actually distorting what they're being fed. If not, then your components (the MR & UR/SGC) are truly "lifting veils." This is, ultimately, a relativistic question, and without having a "source reference" recording, you may never know whether or not your components are accurate or merely euphonic. This is just another way of saying that you can't tell whether the muffling of Linda's voice was really on the recording or not. Is it possible that the "extra detail" you're hearing is from a slight frequency response bump in the presence range? The only conclusion that can really be drawn is that your MR & UR/SGC combo either sounds better to you (or not). This is the dilemma for all reviewers. Unless you were present at the original performance, you're at the mercy of the recording. Great review, by the way - thanks! Boom A very good point and there's no way for me to know for sure. Given what I am hearing across the board (see comments about bass, mids, and highs across many different recordings) and how suddenly I can hear little details that got obscured before (and these are coming across a range of frequencies) - I feel pretty confident that all I am hearing is truly in the recordings, and not just on Linda's stuff. In other words, I think it's unlikely to be a frequency bump since I hear the change across a range of frequencies. I think it's noise reduction playing a major part. And, thanks for the comment about the review...appreciate that. Mark Very well stated Mark. Elimination of noise and pollution in the signal has revealed the same for me in my system. Any system is only as good or poor as its weakest point. |
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