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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 12:03:10 GMT -5
Keith, you sound like you're rooting for the demise of music streaming.
The business model may change, but do you really think the idea of music streaming will die?
I'd say you're very, very misguided if that's the case..
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Post by drtrey3 on Aug 14, 2018 12:07:13 GMT -5
My first file problems arose with a company called Music Giants. I downloaded five albums of tracks and was enjoying them until I needed to move them to another hard drive. After that, the files would not play due to some copy protection. The files were looking for authentication from the company who sold them to me, but that company was gone. Man was I angry! Thankfully I had backed the files up to, wait for it, cds, and was able to burn them on the hard drive without the need for the copy protection that crippled them.
No thanks to the defunct company.
No ifs or hypotheticals there.
Trey
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 12:11:37 GMT -5
drtrey, different model - you probably paid more to download one album than I do per month to access 3 million albums. BTW, as a vet I pay $12 per month for Tidal lossless.
And I love the variety.
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Post by Casey Leedom on Aug 14, 2018 12:20:41 GMT -5
I don't think that KeithL is rooting for the demise of Music Streaming services. It sounds much more like he's wary of getting trapped in a situation where he doesn't have adequate access to high quality versions of the music that he wants to listen to. Let's put it this way: would you lay any substantial wager on the likelihood that Tidal will be around five years from now? They're so far behind their License Payments it's amazing that the record labels have extended them as much credit as they have. And if Tidal goes away, who will provide streaming of high quality music? The vast bulk of music consumers don't seem to care that much about high quality in the same sense that audio professionals and audio hobbyists (audiophiles) do. It seems like a very real chance that most streaming music platforms will just go with MP3s. So, I think the real thing that KeithL is probably "rooting for" is that CDs and other sources of high-quality music don't completely disappear and leave him without any options. And you can count me in that boat. So I buy CDs. And I am also happy to buy Digital Downloads from HD Tracks[1], Bandcamp, and especially directly from Artists' websites in order to give them as large a percentage of the revenue as possible. Casey [1] I actually never buy anything from HD Tracks directly because of their insistence on me downloading their "Download Manager". I'm generally not comfortable allowing any third party's software on my system at all. |
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Post by thrillcat on Aug 14, 2018 12:23:39 GMT -5
When I find a streaming service that: Offers EVERY commercial cut I already own, including the muy-obscure ones Offers EVERY song in their catalog in CD-quality or higher Allows me to supplement their online selection by uploading my home-recorded songs to their server Has sufficient stability that I needn't worry about them failing and losing all my uploads Offers a user friendly interface with excellent metadata capabilities Offers all non-compressed formats including (at a minimum) FLAC and WAV Offers compressed formats including MQA Offers a user-friendly interface Does NOT require a dedicated box to access their servers Has an iPad interface for controlling their software Offers multiple servers in multiple areas for instant access and low latency Offers a reasonable price structure Then I'll be a'streamin'. Until then, I'm obligated to keep my own library, and if I have to do that, then there's no sense spending extra money! I would say watch Apple Music for this list. They have everything but the hi-res audio already in place, and they've always tended to push sound quality to the limit of the hardware infrastructure. As networks get faster and data caps increase or disappear, you'll see them moving toward ALAC for the entire catalog. They already have the uploading obscure content option, and iTunes is getting better as you need to use it less as a library and more as an interface for streaming. Personally, I love Apple Music. I love vinyl. Those are how I consume music these days. I don't have the time to sit down and pick apart the quality of streaming audio. If I have time to sit down and listen, I'd rather listen to and enjoy my vinyl collection while I study the album art and liner notes. Otherwise I'm streaming in the background. But I also understand the market for CDs. I don't think anyone who uses CDs is holding onto the past, or dumb, or whatever else has been thrown around here. I haven't bought a CD in over a decade, unless I'm specifically buying it for the DVD/Blu-ray that's packaged exclusively with the CD. Last summer I used a couple of old CDs to balance my new washing machine. Can't do THAT with an mp3. I wish I had time to sit and enjoy music more, maybe I'd care more about buying CDs. But I have over 700 albums on vinyl, and everything on Apple Music. By the time my son is out of the house and maybe I'll have more time to listen, streaming will be at or above CD quality. |
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Post by klinemj on Aug 14, 2018 12:42:16 GMT -5
My fear is that, like the option of flying from New York to Paris in an hour, the option may NOT be around forever. I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. There are a lot of "what if's", and there's no way we can prepare for them all. So, I choose to not live in fear and just do what makes sense for me. Enjoy your CD's... Mark |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 12:48:49 GMT -5
I don't think that KeithL is rooting for the demise of Music Streaming services. You are right, he's not. But in reverse, there are plenty of streaming people who hold their way in superior regard and do wish us CD using people go the way of the dodo. I don't know why or where it comes from, but it most certainly exists. Nope. Read below. Just read of another company in Sound & Vision last night fixed to knock Tidal on its butt. Forget what it's called. That's certainly part of my reasoning for sure. Internet companies and electronic gadget supply companies are so "fly by night" who knows whats going to be here today and gone tomorrow. I read one page a month in Sound & Vision about the latest news. Its IMPOSSIBLE to keep track of what's going on in the industry. So many things come and go or get combined so fast. Nothing is really reliable. I most certainly would not bet specific brand name companies like say Tidal will be around 5 years from now. There will almost 99.999% sure be some sort of streaming, but odds are high it will not be named Tidal (just using Tidal as an example). |
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 12:52:40 GMT -5
For the record, Qobuz also streams at cd quality.......
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Post by Loop 7 on Aug 14, 2018 12:53:53 GMT -5
I think it is safe to say Apple Music and Google Play Music/YouTube Music are going to be around indefinitely because they can both operate at a loss. These products are just one of hundreds of products these two companies offer.
Spotify's massive base of free tier users and a lot of paying customers is a big deal but they have yet to be profitable and, unlike Apple and Google, don't have numerous other product lines generating billions each year. Spotify has tremendous momentum but Goliath can fall.
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 12:54:27 GMT -5
For the record, Qobuz also streams at cd quality....... That's the one I was referring to above that I just read about last night. |
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Post by Loop 7 on Aug 14, 2018 12:56:34 GMT -5
I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? That's interesting to ponder and certainly possible. |
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Post by klinemj on Aug 14, 2018 13:02:42 GMT -5
You are right, he's not. But in reverse, there are plenty of streaming people who hold their way in superior regard and do wish us CD using people go the way of the dodo. I don't know why or where it comes from, but it most certainly exists. Just to be clear, despite my recent post, I am NOT rooting for the CD business to become extinct. I was just playing counter-point to Keith, who does seem convinced high quality streaming will go away. Heck anything is possible...Ford is ending all car production except the Mustang to focus on trucks/SUV's. Mark |
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Post by 405x5 on Aug 14, 2018 13:03:20 GMT -5
The compact disc is my medium of choice.
I continue to buy, and that’s where most of my current favorite genre lies.
Bill
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 13:09:27 GMT -5
My fear is that, like the option of flying from New York to Paris in an hour, the option may NOT be around forever. I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. There are a lot of "what if's", and there's no way we can prepare for them all. So, I choose to not live in fear and just do what makes sense for me. Enjoy your CD's... Mark I get what you are saying, but comparing the world of video is quite a bit different to audio and CD's in particular because in the video world, new physical tech almost always meant a huge jump in ability or quality. Almost every jump was not only better PQ and SQ, but better convenience too. This is not the case with digital music, downloads, or streaming. Most streaming still isn't even CD quality, but people still try to say it's better. (Off topic: This is why while I agree that old legacy video inputs are dead, analog audio inputs are most certainly not). But, on topic, I'm just not sure why CD's, streaming and downloads can't coexist. Why can't there be all 3 without belittling the other? There are "FACT" strengths and weakness's to all 3 formats. It just seems that CD's are "uncool" right now so they are the red headed step child. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 13:14:22 GMT -5
Just to be clear, despite my recent post, I am NOT rooting for the CD business to become extinct. Yes, very clear and understood. Yes, but what would be next? I read many years ago that Sony patented the idea of sending signals directly to your brain. There would be no need for speakers or TV's, it would just get streamed to some area of your brain (via device implanted I don't know). Sounds cool as heck in one way, but scary as hell in the other. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Aug 14, 2018 13:27:31 GMT -5
... I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. ... Nah, I don't think that's a problem ... at least not for me. While I buy CDs I never actually physically play them. As soon as I get them I RIP them into my Music Library (all lossless FLAC plus a smattering of various High Resolution Downloads). And the Music Library is backed up fairly heavily. And I doubt if CD Drives are going away any time soon. They're used for too many different things. Casey |
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Post by Loop 7 on Aug 14, 2018 13:40:25 GMT -5
Just read of another company in Sound & Vision last night fixed to knock Tidal on its butt. Forget what it's called.
"French company Qobuz was founded in 2007 and has expanded to a limited range of overseas markets, including the United Kingdom, the Netherlands , Germany, Italy and Spain.
At the end of 2015, after a period of financial uncertainty, Qobuz attracted a new investor which allowed the service to continue operating ."
Qobuz currently offers four plans: - Qobuz Premium (lossy)
- Qobuz HiFi (lossless)
- Qobuz HiFi Sublime (24-bit downloads at reduced cost plus lossless streaming)
- Qobuz HiFi Sublime+ (24-bit streaming, 24-bit digital downloads at reduced cost)
I recall Qobuz actually went offline for a while while they worked on getting investors but not sure. Someone correct me if I am wrong, but I think Qobuz is the only 24 bit streaming service. There might be some genre specific services that stream 24 bit but not sure. |
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Post by klinemj on Aug 14, 2018 13:59:41 GMT -5
... I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. ... Nah, I don't think that's not a problem ... at least not for me. While I buy CDs I never actually physically play them. As soon as I get them I RIP them into my Music Library (all lossless FLAC plus a smattering of various High Resolution Downloads). And the Music Library is backed up fairly heavily. And I doubt if CD Drives are going away any time soon. They're used for too many different things. Casey Just playing counter-point to Keith. Anything is possible. No sense living in fear. Mark |
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Post by davidl81 on Aug 14, 2018 14:14:03 GMT -5
I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. There are a lot of "what if's", and there's no way we can prepare for them all. So, I choose to not live in fear and just do what makes sense for me. Enjoy your CD's... Mark I get what you are saying, but comparing the world of video is quite a bit different to audio and CD's in particular because in the video world, new physical tech almost always meant a huge jump in ability or quality. Almost every jump was not only better PQ and SQ, but better convenience too. This is not the case with digital music, downloads, or streaming. Most streaming still isn't even CD quality, but people still try to say it's better. (Off topic: This is why while I agree that old legacy video inputs are dead, analog audio inputs are most certainly not). But, on topic, I'm just not sure why CD's, streaming and downloads can't coexist. Why can't there be all 3 without belittling the other? There are "FACT" strengths and weakness's to all 3 formats. It just seems that CD's are "uncool" right now so they are the red headed step child. It is not that Cd's are "uncool", but it is just a factor of market forces at work. The large majority of buyers can't hear the difference (or don't care about the difference) in a Spotify track and a CD track. Add in that Spotify is significantly more convenient, ie if I have my phone with me I have my music source plus I have virtually any song ever made that I want to hear, then it is no wonder that Cd's are going away. The market for people who will want CD's is fairly small, and I would think almost not worth it for publishers to actually press CD's for various artist. Maybe Amazon will still sell Cd's for a while, but even that won't last too much into the future. I also don't think you will see a renaissance with Cd's like you did with vinyl either IMO. |
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Post by davidl81 on Aug 14, 2018 14:25:38 GMT -5
drtrey, different model - you probably paid more to download one album than I do per month to access 3 million albums. BTW, as a vet I pay $12 per month for Tidal lossless. And I love the variety. I have both Tidal HD and Spotify. It is crazy to have both, but I really do not like Tidal's interface for music as I find Spotify so much easier to use for just background music. Also my wife likes Spotify more so we have the family plan. I really only use Tidal when I am in the theater room listing to dedicated 2 channel music. FWIW that is the only system that I can hear a difference between Tidal and Spotify. |
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