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Post by thrillcat on Aug 14, 2018 14:34:02 GMT -5
The market for people who will want CD's is fairly small, and I would think almost not worth it for publishers to actually press CD's for various artist. Maybe Amazon will still sell Cd's for a while, but even that won't last too much into the future. I also don't think you will see a renaissance with Cd's like you did with vinyl either IMO. Knowing how labels treat/compensate artists, I would LOVE to see labels stop pressing CDs and give the artists the option of selling a "burn on demand" CD-quality version direct to their fans. It would open up a nice new revenue stream, they could price it however their fans would pay, and make more than the dime per unit they make from their CDs now (after the advance, marketing, and tour support are recouped based on dodgy label accounting, that is). |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 14, 2018 14:39:47 GMT -5
Indeed. And I take Mark's fear very much to heart. That's why I keep my CDs, and RIP them all into a digital format, and store those copies on physical discs, which I also own. That way I DON'T have to worry that my music collection will be gone tomorrow.
CDs are also used quite a bit for data... and, until the last backup CD becomes out of date, there will still be a market for drives to play them on.
CDs also have a huge cost advantage over vinyl. Vinyl is expensive to master and expensive to produce... which means that it isn't economically feasible to master a vinyl album if you only expect to sell fifty copies. However, CDs can be economically produced in single quantities, and even individually.
Just to be clear here... I'm not especially attached to the shiny plastic discs...
Digital downloads, which I can store on my own disc, and play on my own equipment, are just fine (and are pretty much interchangeable with physical discs).
What I'm attached to is OWNING a digital copy of the album rather than RENTING it... What really worries me is that, because of some business decision, I will no longer be able to listen to my favorite album tomorrow... I really don't care why, or whose fault it is, and I don't trust someone to sort it all out next week.
And, when I buy an album (whether I'm technically buying the music, or a license to listen to it), I want to buy it ONCE.... not every time I listen to it.
I dislike the very idea that "my music library" will magically cease to exist if I decide not to pay the subscription that month (or if the guys I rent if from go out of business).
It really is that simple...
Also please note that there have been physical forms of music and video storage that have suffered the same problem. Many years ago, in the time of VCDs, there was a video rental option called DivX (NOT to be confused with the video CODEC of that same name - which is still in use). The way it worked was that you purchased each disc for some nominal cost... then you paid a license fee every time you wanted to watch it. (I believe there were options for a single-use or for a lifetime license.) The system included a special player... which confirmed your right to play the disc when it was inserted. Then, one day, the company went out of business. And every disc, in everybody's music collection, became a drink coaster (I'm not sure if the players became excellent planters or not). I absolutely do NOT want that to happen to my current music collection.
The only reason the various options would cease to coexist would be if people seem to become so enamored to the convenience of streaming...
And so oblivious to the risks... That all the other formats simply "die due to lack of interest"... And THAT is what worries me the most.
I'll give you an alternate fear...what if your CD player dies and a high quality CD player is no longer sold? I have a lot of VHS tapes and nothing to play them on. I have a lot of 8 mm video tapes, and I need to transfer them to digital before there's only 1 player left in the world. There are a lot of "what if's", and there's no way we can prepare for them all. So, I choose to not live in fear and just do what makes sense for me. Enjoy your CD's... Mark I get what you are saying, but comparing the world of video is quite a bit different to audio and CD's in particular because in the video world, new physical tech almost always meant a huge jump in ability or quality. Almost every jump was not only better PQ and SQ, but better convenience too. This is not the case with digital music, downloads, or streaming. Most streaming still isn't even CD quality, but people still try to say it's better. (Off topic: This is why while I agree that old legacy video inputs are dead, analog audio inputs are most certainly not). But, on topic, I'm just not sure why CD's, streaming and downloads can't coexist. Why can't there be all 3 without belittling the other? There are "FACT" strengths and weakness's to all 3 formats. It just seems that CD's are "uncool" right now so they are the red headed step child. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 14, 2018 14:42:33 GMT -5
Not at all. I think streaming is great; and it meets the needs of many people; AS LONG AS IT DOESN'T DESTROY THE VERY IDEA OF PHYSICAL OWNERSHIP. Likewise, I think apartment and condominium rentals are great, as long as we don't someday find ourselves unable to actually OWN a home.
Keith, you sound like you're rooting for the demise of music streaming. The business model may change, but do you really think the idea of music streaming will die? I'd say you're very, very misguided if that's the case.. |
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Post by thrillcat on Aug 14, 2018 14:53:21 GMT -5
What really worries me is that, because of some business decision, I will no longer be able to listen to my favorite album tomorrow...
And, when I buy an album (whether I'm technically buying the music, or a license to listen to it), I want to buy it ONCE.... not every time I listen to it.
I dislike the very idea that "my music library" will magically cease to exist if I decide not to pay the subscription that month (or if the guys I rent if from go out of business).
It really is that simple...
This is also different. I had a large iTunes library of all my old CDs (about 1000) that I had ripped into iTunes. It also included hundreds of albums I had purchased from iTunes. Then I did the Apple Music trial. At the end of the trial, I did not immediately subscribe. All of the music I had leased went away, but every single item I had purchased was still there. When you subscribe to a streaming service, you're not buying the music. You're leasing access to it. And if you decide to stop leasing it, sure, it goes away, but what you OWNED is still there. If you lease a car, and have an iPod connected, and maybe a nice sunshade, when your lease is up, you still own the iPod and the sunshade, but the car goes away. Or you can then buy it. Just like you can then purchase the music you discovered while leasing it. My internet service provider might go out of business, but the internet will still exist. You can't possibly think you're buying music for $15 a month. If that were the case, I'd just pay for one month and own every piece of music on Apple Music? That'd be a helluva deal. This thought that you don't own music when you're on a subscription service has always been kind of a "no duh" thing. Before Apple Music, I spent a LOT more than $15/month buying music. I'm getting a LOT more than $15/month worth of music with the service. I'm not worried about them shutting down, but if they do, I enjoyed the heck out of it for the time I was a member, and I still have all the music I purchased before leasing ACCESS to ALL MUSIC. I understand the sound quality arguments, but I've never understood the owning/renting music argument. If Spotify goes out of business, Stevie Wonder's music is not going to cease to exist. Only your ACCESS to that music VIA SPOTIFY will cease to exist. Go buy it (or lease access) from another source. If you're a music consumer and a music lover, you're going to save money with a subscription service, and you're going to be drooling over all the content you have ACCESS to. Even if you go buy CDs of your favorites, every true music lover should have some sort of music subscription, if only for the act of discovery. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 15:08:52 GMT -5
I would like to live in a musical world where I can choose which I want to use, which I want to pay for, and use which I want when I want.
Typical CD people aren't wishing for the demise of streaming or downloading. We are just wishing that CD's remain available to us for a long time to come. There is no ill will, yet, since we still do have CD's.
On the other hand, whether directly or indirectly, streaming people tend to consider CDs totally worthless, and therefore, in turn, think CDs should just go away entirely, and consider faithful CD people "old fuddy-duddys" who like to live in the past.
There IS an air of arrogance to it, that streaming is always superior and CD's are inferior. Similar to how many Iphone people consider themselves and their devices superior to Androids and their users. I have no clue where it comes from, but it most certainly exists.
I'm not a big book reader, but I don't wish that physical books go away. I hope people who enjoy physical books are able to do so as long as they wish. Same for people who would rather do books on tape or use an electronic device to read their books. Why can't they all co-exist? I think all methods certainly have their place.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Aug 14, 2018 15:13:23 GMT -5
Yes, it is a very different model.
When I purchase an album I am assured the ability to listen to it whenever I want to. (I guess you might say that I am granted the ability to assure myself of that... although, if I fail to make a backup, or lose the disc, I may sacrifice that ability.)
I like variety. But I also have several dozen albums that I listen to frequently. I consider having access to those albums to be essential to my ability to enjoy music. Therefore, while variety is great, I would NOT trade absolute assured access to the albums I care about for it. Please note that I have nothing whatsoever against streaming. I think it's great to have access to all that variety at a reasonable price. I use it, and I certainly hope it will continue to be available.
However, if license negotiations go badly next week, YOU may lose the ability to listen to a few of your favorite albums on Tidal after that. At the same time, I will still have access to all of my favorites, which I own in some physical form, either a physical CD or a well-backed-up file. And, to me, that assurance is worth any cost.
The only real problem I have with streaming services is that the model on which they are based relies on NOT allowing me to protect myself against their failure. (Tidal will NOT allow me to download the songs I like and make backup copies to protect myself in case they go out of business.)
drtrey, different model - you probably paid more to download one album than I do per month to access 3 million albums. BTW, as a vet I pay $12 per month for Tidal lossless. And I love the variety. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 15:16:00 GMT -5
As I read through some of these posts, I can't help but get the feeling we are discussing our political beliefs in another fashion. Almost like streamers are Democrats and CD folks are Republicans. I'm fairly sure it doesn't relate to that directly, but perhaps their is some correlation. I'm not sure I've ever considered that before. But either way, I do think some of the feelings behind the discussion are pretty made up (or ingrained), much like political or religious views. Discussion could be futile.
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Post by novisnick on Aug 14, 2018 15:19:22 GMT -5
I would like to live in a musical world where I can choose which I want to use, which I want to pay for, and use which I want when I want. Typical CD people aren't wishing for the demise of streaming or downloading. We are just wishing that CD's remain available to us for a long time to come. There is no ill will, yet, since we still do have CD's. On the other hand, whether directly or indirectly, streaming people tend to consider CDs totally worthless, and therefore, in turn, think CDs should just go away entirely, and consider faithful CD people "old fuddy-duddys" who like to live in the past. There IS an air of arrogance to it, that streaming is always superior and CD's are inferior. Similar to how many Iphone people consider themselves and their devices superior to Androids and their users. I have no clue where it comes from, but it most certainly exists. I'm not a big book reader, but I don't wish that physical books go away. I hope people who enjoy physical books are able to do so as long as they wish. Same for people who would rather do books on tape or use an electronic device to read their books. Why can't they all co-exist? I think all methods certainly have their place. “I'm not a big book reader”, hey! What do you have against little books? 😜 and “old fuddy-duddys” too, I still spin LPs! Wheres that leave me? LOL |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 15:21:16 GMT -5
I would like to live in a musical world where I can choose which I want to use, which I want to pay for, and use which I want when I want. Typical CD people aren't wishing for the demise of streaming or downloading. We are just wishing that CD's remain available to us for a long time to come. There is no ill will, yet, since we still do have CD's. On the other hand, whether directly or indirectly, streaming people tend to consider CDs totally worthless, and therefore, in turn, think CDs should just go away entirely, and consider faithful CD people "old fuddy-duddys" who like to live in the past. There IS an air of arrogance to it, that streaming is always superior and CD's are inferior. Similar to how many Iphone people consider themselves and their devices superior to Androids and their users. I have no clue where it comes from, but it most certainly exists. I'm not a big book reader, but I don't wish that physical books go away. I hope people who enjoy physical books are able to do so as long as they wish. Same for people who would rather do books on tape or use an electronic device to read their books. Why can't they all co-exist? I think all methods certainly have their place. “I'm not a big book reader”, hey! What do you have against little books? 😜 and “old fuddy-duddys” too, I still spin LPs! Wheres that leave me? LOL   |
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Post by teaman on Aug 14, 2018 15:23:07 GMT -5
I buy on average five CDs a month. Depends on what music I find online, in forums or on YouTube that I don't already own. I prefer the CD to any streaming, although I realize that streaming is easier. With a good CD player I see no reason to leave a tried and true form of physical media that never wears out over time. I still stream when it is more convenient to do so but that will never take over physical media in my house.
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 15:27:50 GMT -5
Bonzo, now you've really done it!! Calling me a Democrat!!!  |
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 15:29:06 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price.
In the meantime.....
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Post by klinemj on Aug 14, 2018 15:38:10 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price. In the meantime..... EXCELLENT point... Mark |
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Post by novisnick on Aug 14, 2018 15:38:18 GMT -5
Time to Fire up the ol Napster app from years gone by! 😜
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Post by teaman on Aug 14, 2018 16:00:38 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price.
In the meantime.....
Going price for what? Per song? I can give you a list of the last twenty CDs I bought and I'll bet you don't find any for a buck. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 16:03:46 GMT -5
Bonzo, now you've really done it!! Calling me a Democrat!!! Whoops! Now THAT I didn't mean to do.  I'd never call anyone a Democrat unless I really truly utterly despised them.  You aren't on that list.  (Note: Actually some of my best oldest friends are very liberal. I am the only tie-dye wearing Republican I know though). |
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Post by audiobill on Aug 14, 2018 16:06:55 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price.
In the meantime.....
Going price for what? Per song? I can give you a list of the last twenty CDs I bought and I'll bet you don't find any for a buck. Per cd.....I listen mostly to classic jazz. |
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Post by chicagorspec on Aug 14, 2018 16:10:25 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price.
In the meantime.....
Going price for what? Per song? I can give you a list of the last twenty CDs I bought and I'll bet you don't find any for a buck. If discussing buying music you WANT, maybe $1 a track. If you just want little plastic discs you can buy them all day long at Goodwill, but most of it will be garbage musically. |
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Post by Bonzo on Aug 14, 2018 16:15:15 GMT -5
One thought is that if Tidal went away, I could go out and buy my faves - at $1 apiece, the going price. The last few years have been a great time to amass a great deal of CD's if someone wants shear quantity of used older stuff over stuff they might actually listen to or newer things. But a dollar apiece is not the "going rate" if you want to just buy the stuff you want. Buying in bulk like from Boom is a great deal, except most of the stuff I either have or have no desire to own. For me it's not about the money. I don't lease cars, I buy them. I buy movies that are important to me. I buy music that is important to me. My father always said I thought money grew on trees. That very well may be. There is something to be said for being frugal, especially when I'm not rich by any means. But I'll never be a tight wad either. That sort of lifestyle drives me nuts. Somewhere in-between is probably the best, which to me means CD's and streaming. |
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Post by davidl81 on Aug 14, 2018 16:21:16 GMT -5
I buy on average five CDs a month. Depends on what music I find online, in forums or on YouTube that I don't already own. I prefer the CD to any streaming, although I realize that streaming is easier. With a good CD player I see no reason to leave a tried and true form of physical media that never wears out over time. I still stream when it is more convenient to do so but that will never take over physical media in my house. I really enjoy streaming when I cook in the afternoons. I can stream from my spotify app directly to either my apple TV (connected to the living room AVR and theater room Marantz) or to my Marantz upstairs that feeds my zone 2 outdoors. Also now with airplay2 I can have the same song playing in multiple rooms/zones. So I can have the same song on outside as I'm grilling, then I walk in the house and the song is still playing in the living room. All of this done form my phone and when I am done I can power everything down from my phone. It is just so easy. |
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