b4icu
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Post by b4icu on Sept 23, 2018 12:38:52 GMT -5
The electrical specs are the same for all Ncore amplifier modules. A comparable spec sheet I have from when I bought my nc400's shows even lower output impedance...0.6 mOhm for "typical" and 1 for "maximum". In any case - very lower relative to my speaker impedance and that of any wires....netting a massive damping factor whether I use my #'s or yours. And, as I noted to b4icu , my calcs on wire resistance show I would be way beyond the point of diminishing returns with my dual 10 gauge and not meaningfully better than 2 meter 16 gauge. Mark Hi Mark Sorry, this makes no sense. A DF over 5000 with typical value of 12000...No other do. Never heard of. However, I suspect that the overall spec (wired in a box with PS and more) may not be as "fantastic" as the module's spec. is. Your cables exchange experience also may suggest that the DF is not even close to those figures (much lower). I'll rather not dig into this D-class without having one to check, in remote information exchange via his forum. It will not be responsible. Enjoy your nc400's and the 1.7. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Sept 23, 2018 12:52:00 GMT -5
One sign of wisdom is for a teacher to know when to stop teaching the unteachable. So, I am now disengaging from this discussion.
Don't feed the trolls.
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Post by 405x5 on Sept 23, 2018 13:04:57 GMT -5
One sign of wisdom is for a teacher to know when to stop teaching the unteachable. So, I am now disengaging from this discussion. Don't feed the trolls. Understood! As usual I’ve enjoyed the posts from all the regulars this week and ditched the Troll last week. |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 23, 2018 13:10:05 GMT -5
Sorry, this makes no sense. A DF over 5000 with typical value of 12000...No other do. Never heard of. However, I suspect that the overall spec (wired in a box with PS and more) may not be as "fantastic" as the module's spec. is. The specs are for the system...as directly quoted by a document from the manufacturer. And, they specifically call out the specs are being for the power supply connected to the amp modules I have - which they sold as a kit for home assembly (very much plug and play...mount modules in a case, connect wires, turn on.). So, whether you believe the specs or not, it's what is in the manufacturer's specifications. And, if you read up on Bruno Putzey's work leading up to these amps, you will see he came up with quite a breakthrough in Class D. Reading that information and reviews from others on his products is what led me to buy them. And, I think they are swell...amazing even. In any case, based on what I can see - you are essentially looking to make sure the damping factor is sufficient. And, part of that is the amplifier's output impedance and part is the load impedance. The load impedance is comprised of that of the wire (driven by wire gauge, length, and composition of the wire) and the speaker itself (and that impedance can vary widely as a function of frequency). That is all very well known information, so unless you say there's something more to what you have been trying to tell us (by telling us "you're wrong"...but not elaborating on what's right)...then I'll bow out of this conversation like dyohn just did. Mark |
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hemster
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Particle Manufacturer
...still listening... still watching
Posts: 51,951
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Post by hemster on Sept 23, 2018 13:15:44 GMT -5
b4icu , you mentioned a metric named "relative affectivity". Can you please elaborate on it? What unit do you use to measure it? How do you measure it? All I can find on it is: "Adjective: Concerned with or arousing feelings or emotions; emotional. Influenced by or resulting from the emotions, as of a psychological disorder" As an MSEE I have not heard of this factor. Thanks. Really? A DC to DC power supply, that has a 78% affectivity (efficiancy), would it have the same at all output powers? Well, at 90% maybe yes. At others it will be less. So the data is always be given at the best power, on other power you nee to check or test. You are a MSEE and looked it up where? In the webster dictionary  Ahh, when you say "affectivity" you mean "efficiency" - which of course varies with output power. |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 13:23:06 GMT -5
You may think it is not a barrier, but it seems to be. You answered before I added a the statement " Perhaps the language barrier is too steep, are there not audio blogs in Israel that you could converse with better?" Technical discussions, unless one sticks to purely mathematical means, can be hard to convey in less than one's first language. I think his English is pretty good. Maybe some adjusting needed here and there but generally it isn't that hard to understand if you keep an open-minded stance. I am sure he will be more than willing to answer any of your inquiries. |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 23, 2018 14:19:48 GMT -5
Sorry, this makes no sense. A DF over 5000 with typical value of 12000...No other do. Never heard of. However, I suspect that the overall spec (wired in a box with PS and more) may not be as "fantastic" as the module's spec. is. The specs are for the system...as directly quoted by a document from the manufacturer. And, they specifically call out the specs are being for the power supply connected to the amp modules I have - which they sold as a kit for home assembly (very much plug and play...mount modules in a case, connect wires, turn on.). So, whether you believe the specs or not, it's what is in the manufacturer's specifications. And, if you read up on Bruno Putzey's work leading up to these amps, you will see he came up with quite a breakthrough in Class D. Reading that information and reviews from others on his products is what led me to buy them. And, I think they are swell...amazing even. In any case, based on what I can see - you are essentially looking to make sure the damping factor is sufficient. And, part of that is the amplifier's output impedance and part is the load impedance. The load impedance is comprised of that of the wire (driven by wire gauge, length, and composition of the wire) and the speaker itself (and that impedance can vary widely as a function of frequency). That is all very well known information, so unless you say there's something more to what you have been trying to tell us (by telling us "you're wrong"...but not elaborating on what's right)...then I'll bow out of this conversation like dyohn just did. Mark Hi Mark I think that a class D is way different than linear "classes" regarding DF. I wouldn't be surprise, if we would have the schematics and looked up the output drive devices (most likely a FET type high power gates), would have this 1.5m ohms spec regarding it's "ON" resistance. However, this data reffers to a 100% DC and the gate is never 100% ON. In other words, ome things just don't add up. Also other facors seems to be at the higher end (SNR, THD etc'.). Let's say that THD has two areas to go bad: after clipping, at maximum power or at very low power (less than 1W). I do not see much information regarding at what power this fantastic THD was measured? I rather would not dig deep into this D-class implementation. Also, the fact that if DF would be in that leag, of way over 5000, the cables should matter. You say there was no audiable difference. This may guid to a conclusion that your hearing is not good  or the spec is not so true. I'll save you the need to answer this and go with the pec issue. |
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b4icu
Minor Hero
Posts: 60
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Post by b4icu on Sept 23, 2018 14:21:30 GMT -5
You may think it is not a barrier, but it seems to be. You answered before I added a the statement " Perhaps the language barrier is too steep, are there not audio blogs in Israel that you could converse with better?" Technical discussions, unless one sticks to purely mathematical means, can be hard to convey in less than one's first language. I think his English is pretty good. Maybe some adjusting needed here and there but generally it isn't that hard to understand if you keep an open-minded stance. I am sure he will be more than willing to answer any of your inquiries. Thanks So do you think they say I'm a trol because of my English? |
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Post by Jean Genie on Sept 23, 2018 14:49:30 GMT -5
I think his English is pretty good. Maybe some adjusting needed here and there but generally it isn't that hard to understand if you keep an open-minded stance. I am sure he will be more than willing to answer any of your inquiries. Thanks So do you think they say I'm a trol because of my English? I think they say you're a troll because you disagree with everything anyone presents and offer no valid reason for your disagreements... and your vocabulary and grammar are confusing at best and unintelligible at worst. IMHO, of course. |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 14:50:29 GMT -5
I think his English is pretty good. Maybe some adjusting needed here and there but generally it isn't that hard to understand if you keep an open-minded stance. I am sure he will be more than willing to answer any of your inquiries. Thanks So do you think they say I'm a trol because of my English? I do not think you are but I can only speak for myself. Just be mindful that this forum is essentially a small community compared with other forums and you will get noticed very quickly. |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 14:52:59 GMT -5
Thanks So do you think they say I'm a trol because of my English? I think they say you're a troll because you disagree with everything anyone presents and offer no valid reason for your disagreements... and your vocabulary and grammar are confusing at best and unintelligible at worst. IMHO, of course. You could have been more helpful if you would have used the word "clear" instead of "unintelligible" |
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Post by Jean Genie on Sept 23, 2018 15:07:30 GMT -5
I think they say you're a troll because you disagree with everything anyone presents and offer no valid reason for your disagreements... and your vocabulary and grammar are confusing at best and unintelligible at worst. IMHO, of course. You could have been more helpful if you would have used the word "clear" instead of "unintelligible" No. I covered that with "confusing". Thanks for your input. |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 15:23:00 GMT -5
You could have been more helpful if you would have used the word "clear" instead of "unintelligible" No. I covered that with "confusing". Thanks for your input. Ok so you are being deliberately wordy as "confusing" would had just suffice. |
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Post by Jean Genie on Sept 23, 2018 15:27:01 GMT -5
No. I covered that with "confusing". Thanks for your input. Ok so you are being deliberately wordy as "confusing" would had just suffice. "... at best..." Is English not your 1st language either? Just wondering.😉 |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 15:50:03 GMT -5
Ok so you are being deliberately wordy as "confusing" would had just suffice. "... at best..." Is English not your 1st language either? Just wondering.😉 Still confusing at best, wordy and unclear. I am lucky I have two 1st languages. I am bilingual. What about you?  |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 23, 2018 15:50:56 GMT -5
The specs are for the system...as directly quoted by a document from the manufacturer. And, they specifically call out the specs are being for the power supply connected to the amp modules I have - which they sold as a kit for home assembly (very much plug and play...mount modules in a case, connect wires, turn on.). So, whether you believe the specs or not, it's what is in the manufacturer's specifications. And, if you read up on Bruno Putzey's work leading up to these amps, you will see he came up with quite a breakthrough in Class D. Reading that information and reviews from others on his products is what led me to buy them. And, I think they are swell...amazing even. In any case, based on what I can see - you are essentially looking to make sure the damping factor is sufficient. And, part of that is the amplifier's output impedance and part is the load impedance. The load impedance is comprised of that of the wire (driven by wire gauge, length, and composition of the wire) and the speaker itself (and that impedance can vary widely as a function of frequency). That is all very well known information, so unless you say there's something more to what you have been trying to tell us (by telling us "you're wrong"...but not elaborating on what's right)...then I'll bow out of this conversation like dyohn just did. Mark Hi Mark I think that a class D is way different than linear "classes" regarding DF. I wouldn't be surprise, if we would have the schematics and looked up the output drive devices (most likely a FET type high power gates), would have this 1.5m ohms spec regarding it's "ON" resistance. However, this data reffers to a 100% DC and the gate is never 100% ON. In other words, ome things just don't add up. Also other facors seems to be at the higher end (SNR, THD etc'.). Let's say that THD has two areas to go bad: after clipping, at maximum power or at very low power (less than 1W). I do not see much information regarding at what power this fantastic THD was measured? I rather would not dig deep into this D-class implementation. Also, the fact that if DF would be in that leag, of way over 5000, the cables should matter. You say there was no audiable difference. This may guid to a conclusion that your hearing is not good or the spec is not so true. I'll save you the need to answer this and go with the pec issue. So, in other words - you have no unifying theory that explains what you are talking about other than to discount others' scientifically valid approaches (without sharing any details of what is wrong in the thinking), to shed doubt on what a plausible manufacturer (hailed as a revolutionary thinker and digital engineer with likely more credentials than you) has achieved, or to discredit a person's hearing. Oh, by the way, my hearing is so good that the biggest issue I have is that my hearing is so good that very distant sounds interfere with what I hear from things close to me because I can hear very low dB sounds quite well and I have to separate the low dB sounds from far away from low dB sounds near me. Net..."kline out"...provide something credible or...sign off and be viewed as a troll looking to sell snake oil cables. Mark |
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Sept 23, 2018 15:53:31 GMT -5
PS - it does appear that the basis of your "your thinking is wrong" claims come from you considering damping factor. My last point/question: "uh, yeah...sooooo...what's new? we all knew that?"
And with that, I am out.
Bye bye!
Mark
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Post by Jean Genie on Sept 23, 2018 15:58:54 GMT -5
"... at best..." Is English not your 1st language either? Just wondering.😉 Still confusing at best and unclear. I am lucky I have two 1st languages. I am bilingual. What about you? Nah. I believe in the old adage, “Do one thing, and do it well.”, but I AM bi-coastal!😎 🙈🙉🙊 |
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Post by monkumonku on Sept 23, 2018 16:02:47 GMT -5
One sign of wisdom is for a teacher to know when to stop teaching the unteachable. So, I am now disengaging from this discussion. Don't feed the trolls. I.e., Proverbs 23:9. As for those who keep following this thread, |
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Post by pedrocols on Sept 23, 2018 16:03:01 GMT -5
Still confusing at best and unclear. I am lucky I have two 1st languages. I am bilingual. What about you? Nah. I believe in the old adage, “Do one thing, and do it well.”, but I AM bit-coastal!😎 🙈🙉🙊 Being bilingual infers I do both things right...Sorry to just have debunked the old adage...  |
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or the spec is not so true. I'll save you the need to answer this and go with the pec issue.
