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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 25, 2020 10:13:31 GMT -5
On the ASR review - He is using a reference 1KHZ waveform from his PC. How accurate is that? Then the FFT response does not have the reference subtracted out. How accurate does that make the distortion measurement? Isn't he measuring the distortion of his own reference waveform plus any addition caused by the test subject? Also he is measuring at a higher voltage (3.8v) than anything else tested (he tested the HTP1 at 1.4v and 1.27v). Wouldn't his own 1khz ref have more distortion at higher voltages? Just thinking out loud, maybe I am wrong.
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Post by SOWK on Feb 25, 2020 10:14:07 GMT -5
1.8 Firmware
IMPROVED - Notable improvements have been made to CEC and ARC performance with different monitors. CHANGED DEFAULT - Factory Default setting is now 9.1.6 speaker configuration (was 7.1). CHANGED DEFAULT - Factory Default is now “Video Remains On” ("High-Power Standby"; was "Low-Power Standby / full reboot). CHANGED BEHAVIOR - When Dim=0 Info display now pops up at 40% (was 10%).
FIXED - Flickering image with LG-C7, LG-C8, LG-C9 in combination with Apple TV DV @60hz. FIXED - Loss of audio after FF, Rew, Pause on DVR, cable, and Sat boxes. FIXED - No audio from speakers on some TVs with “Video Remains On”. FIXED - “Audio to TV” no audio from pre-outs. (TV stealing audio). FIXED - No Menu without video source (no Menu over "black screen"). FIXED - No Audio from audio-only source after “Low Power” boot. FIXED - Internal “levels” wrong in Left Sub (when using Left / Right Subs). FIXED - “Emotiva” banner sticks at boot up until action is made when Dim=0.
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LCSeminole
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Res firma mitescere nescit.
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Post by LCSeminole on Feb 25, 2020 10:53:08 GMT -5
Well that seems fairly poor..... Forget about this reviewer. He is just measuring, without really knowing what he is doing. I saw terrible reviews from this guy on perfect sounding stuff... Just listen to people who use their ears to judge. Forget about the rest. There are many good reviews about the awesome sound quality of the RMC-1. Even in this forum, there are a lot of RMC-1 owners sharing their first hand experience, who pretty well understand the difference between an "OK" sounding processor and an outstanding one. I prefer their opinion over a guy that only judges on (doubtful) measurements. I listen to music, not numbers. I did this long ago, not just Amir, but all reviewers. There is but one reviewer that means anything to me when it comes to sound. Yes I listen and read said reviews when it comes to build quality and features, but when it comes to my review and mine alone in my home theater environment, my experience will always be my top priority.
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Deleted
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Post by Deleted on Feb 25, 2020 10:57:18 GMT -5
EMOTIVA - Keith With reference to the ASR review there is one question Emotiva needs to answer: Are the measurements obtained by the reviewer reflective of your design intentions/choices? To put it another way: When you measure a unit after assembly and prior to shipping; do your measurements and those from ASR agree? If they agree, can you explain some of your design choices? If they differ, can you explain possible reasons why? Thank You
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Post by urwi on Feb 25, 2020 11:00:58 GMT -5
I listen to music, not numbers. Digital audio is just that, numbers!
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Post by alexreusch on Feb 25, 2020 11:11:42 GMT -5
I listen to music, not numbers. Digital audio is just that, numbers! Wrong. The DAC converts digital audio data to analogue. Listening will always be analogue. My ears only work analogue and so do yours.
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Post by urwi on Feb 25, 2020 11:23:40 GMT -5
Digital audio is just that, numbers! Wrong. The DAC converts digital audio data to analogue. Listening will always be analogue. My ears only work analogue and so do yours. Those measurements listen to the analog signal too We are all listening to the same thing Are you saying all those measurements don't represent anything audible?
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Post by alexreusch on Feb 25, 2020 11:24:34 GMT -5
Forget about this reviewer. He is just measuring, without really knowing what he is doing. I saw terrible reviews from this guy on perfect sounding stuff... Just listen to people who use their ears to judge. Forget about the rest. There are many good reviews about the awesome sound quality of the RMC-1. Even in this forum, there are a lot of RMC-1 owners sharing their first hand experience, who pretty well understand the difference between an "OK" sounding processor and an outstanding one. I prefer their opinion over a guy that only judges on (doubtful) measurements. I listen to music, not numbers. I did this long ago, not just Amir, but all reviewers. There is but one reviewer that means anything to me when it comes to sound. Yes I listen and read said reviews when it comes to build quality and features, but when it comes to my review and mine alone in my home theater environment, my experience will always be my top priority. There are a bunch of good reviewers out there: John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Thomas & Stereo, Zero Fidelity (all available on YouTube)... and many more. I also do like "That Home Theater Dude" on Homecinema stuff. But at the end, it is you alone who decides what you like and what not. Reviewers can only give you hints and your decision should never be based only on the opinion of reviewers.
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Post by mikoz on Feb 25, 2020 11:28:23 GMT -5
I did this long ago, not just Amir, but all reviewers. There is but one reviewer that means anything to me when it comes to sound. Yes I listen and read said reviews when it comes to build quality and features, but when it comes to my review and mine alone in my home theater environment, my experience will always be my top priority. There are a bunch of good reviewers out there: John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Thomas & Stereo, Zero Fidelity (all available on YouTube)... and many more. I also do like "That Home Theater Dude" on Homecinema stuff. But at the end, it is you alone who decides what you like and what not. Reviewers can only give you hints and your decision should never be based only on the opinion of reviewers.
It's the first review I've seen with real measurements. Emotiva doesn't seems to want to give numbers for basic things like THD and SNR on their processors. so they should refute and discuss their measurement approach as needed.
You can easily be fooled into thinking something sounds good just by volume and equalization. Numbers from lab measurements like SNR and THD do not "lie". If you don't like his absolute approach, he's using other equipment as a baseline for reference.
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Post by urwi on Feb 25, 2020 11:36:42 GMT -5
There are a bunch of good reviewers out there: John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Thomas & Stereo, Zero Fidelity (all available on YouTube)... and many more. I also do like "That Home Theater Dude" on Homecinema stuff. But at the end, it is you alone who decides what you like and what not. Reviewers can only give you hints and your decision should never be based only on the opinion of reviewers. We all have different ears! We all have different taste. Nobody tells me what I like! Measurements on the other hand don't change depending on who is doing them. They tell the truth and not just what someone else likes. Now if measurements directly relate to what I like is a different question
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Post by Mikomill on Feb 25, 2020 11:48:25 GMT -5
There are a bunch of good reviewers out there: John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Thomas & Stereo, Zero Fidelity (all available on YouTube)... and many more. I also do like "That Home Theater Dude" on Homecinema stuff. But at the end, it is you alone who decides what you like and what not. Reviewers can only give you hints and your decision should never be based only on the opinion of reviewers.
It's the first review I've seen with real measurements. Emotiva doesn't seems to want to give numbers for basic things like THD and SNR on their processors. so they should refute and discuss their measurement approach as needed.
You can easily be fooled into thinking something sounds good just by volume and equalization. Numbers from lab measurements like SNR and THD do not "lie". If you don't like his absolute approach, he's using other equipment as a baseline for reference.
You know what else i found out in all my years of HI FI purchases? You can ALSO easily be fooled into thinking something sounds good just by the fact that it sounds good. I don't need someones test numbers or someone else's disdain for Emotiva to justify OR negate my purchasing decisions.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 25, 2020 11:57:36 GMT -5
Let me just say that I have no clue how he was testing and under what conditions, but I can say this. Everyone raves about the sound quality of our gear. That is the one constant that holds true. If the processor was as he says, would it not be reflected in the sound quality?
Think about it for a minute. In the meantime, I have asked Ray to put together test data that will be published in a little bit. I would simply publish our full test except its over 250 pages long and everyone would just get bogged down in the mire. So Ray is running an abridged version now to show the performance specs using industry standard test. When I asked him to do this, he wants to make a few technical comments as they relate to some of his comparisons and how comparing a HT processor to a desk top DAC is an apple to orange comparison and this goes for all processors, not just us.
Lonnie
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Post by ttocs on Feb 25, 2020 12:03:14 GMT -5
Measurements on the other hand don't change depending on who is doing them. They tell the truth and not just what someone else likes. Measurements can be affected by noise from various sources. Using a PC to generate a signal is suspect to me. Cheap probes, cheap scope (or is the reviewer using a virtual scope?), using jumpers attached to probes (who knows?), any test component not rated for the test can allow noise to be injected into the signal. So measurements are equipment and personnel dependent. Measurements "can" be the same between multiple lab technicians if the same equipment is used under the same lab conditions. It's more likely that the measurements would be "close", but not identical, which is perfectly acceptable.
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Post by cwt on Feb 25, 2020 12:10:42 GMT -5
Well, the laptop settings was in 4:4:4 by default. Why shouldn’t it work? Yes, only 1080p 8bit 4:2:0 worked.. The computer said it found the Sony TV but would not send picture OR sound. No error message, just no image or sound. Could this be the same issue Amir had when he couldn’t get connection with his laptop to HTP-1 or RMC-1? Btw I have the Billy Lynne 4k disc. It worked without any issues with my passive cables, as any source has done. The RMC1's pana chipset is designed to pass those hdmi resolutions ;frame rates that are allowed is the way I look at it [ the chart on the link shows what will pass for uhd bd] . If it sees a 1080p signal that isn't 4:2:0 or rec709 colour gamut it means it isn't a 2d bluray or any other standard rec709 non bt2020 signal so will ignore it .. The 4:2:2 and 4:4:4 colour subsampling are not used with 1080p ; that's what Ime getting at :)If Billy Lynne was a dolby vision disc like Gemini man and you tried to play it on a dv enabled panel with 4k 18gbps cables you would have to drop the 12bit dolby volume and use the 10bit hdr10 instead as David Meyer lists in red on the chart. Notice its 24gbps for dolby vision ; too much.. Its hard to comprehend if the inventor of hddvd would have trouble with setting the correct frame rate and colour space to both pre pro's but I prefer the designed and engineered concept of a component than the cobbled together process of a htpc so its disappointing to me he uses a htpc at all
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Feb 25, 2020 12:14:09 GMT -5
There are a bunch of good reviewers out there: John Darko, Steve Guttenberg, Thomas & Stereo, Zero Fidelity (all available on YouTube)... and many more. I also do like "That Home Theater Dude" on Homecinema stuff. But at the end, it is you alone who decides what you like and what not. Reviewers can only give you hints and your decision should never be based only on the opinion of reviewers. We all have different ears! We all have different taste. Nobody tells me what I like! Measurements on the other hand don't change depending on who is doing them. They tell the truth and not just what someone else likes. Now if measurements directly relate to what I like is a different question With all due respect, measurements are only consistant if run under the same conditions. Change any of the external variables and the end results change. That is why there are industry standard test with defined procedures. Lonnie
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Post by dj7675 on Feb 25, 2020 12:15:41 GMT -5
The solution to this is very simple. Emotiva has AP analyzers in house. As they used to do with all their products (like the XMC-1)... provide full measurements for their processors. I requested this 3-4 months ago and was told they would do so soon. These specs and measurements never came. If specs and measurements don't matter at all to people, that is fine. For many, however it is not ok have $3k+ processors with no published specs or measurements. If Emotiva thinks the measurements are not correct, or there is an issue with the testing, they need to respond at audiosciencereview. Otherwise, there is no reason to think that the measurements are not correct. It is not too much to ask for published specs/measurements.
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Post by bolle on Feb 25, 2020 12:18:27 GMT -5
The interesting point for me is that the same guy with the same equipment and approach measured also the XMC-1 and the XMC-1 scored better in most categories than the RMC-1. Of course, that says nothing about how it sounds, etc., blablabla...
But for about double the price, a on paper better DAC etc. I would also expect that this shows in the measurements. So I am quite interested in the upcoming discussion.
The reviewer also mentioned being in contact / having mailed Emotiva before posting / uploading!?
On the topic: I press both thumbs for all of you regarding 1.8 that most of the big bugs got fixed.
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Post by mikoz on Feb 25, 2020 12:19:24 GMT -5
Let me just say that I have no clue how he was testing and under what conditions, but I can say this. Everyone raves about the sound quality of our gear. That is the one constant that holds true. If the processor was as he says, would it not be reflected in the sound quality? Think about it for a minute. In the meantime, I have asked Ray to put together test data that will be published in a little bit. I would simply publish our full test except its over 250 pages long and everyone would just get bogged down in the mire. So Ray is running an abridged version now to show the performance specs using industry standard test. When I asked him to do this, he wants to make a few technical comments as they relate to some of his comparisons and how comparing a HT processor to a desk top DAC is an apple to orange comparison and this goes for all processors, not just us. Lonnie
Lonnie, SQ is subjetive. SNR/THD/etc are not. Why nmot use numbers to justify your claim?
I can take an old TV with crappy speakers, tweak the equalization and turn up the volume and make it sound better... but lab measurements would reveal the truth.
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Post by SOWK on Feb 25, 2020 12:22:21 GMT -5
Well since I might be one of the few customers remaining with the RMC-1...
Can I get the Bass PEQ fixed on the next firmware please?
LOL...
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Post by dj7675 on Feb 25, 2020 12:23:58 GMT -5
We all have different ears! We all have different taste. Nobody tells me what I like! Measurements on the other hand don't change depending on who is doing them. They tell the truth and not just what someone else likes. Now if measurements directly relate to what I like is a different question With all due respect, measurements are only consistant if run under the same conditions. Change any of the external variables and the end results change. That is why there are industry standard test with defined procedures. Lonnie Lonnie, 1-Will Emotiva ever be posting specs for the current processors? 2-Are the latest results on the ASR review flawed in any way and if so, how?
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