Lsc
Emo VIPs
Posts: 3,352
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Post by Lsc on Apr 3, 2020 14:59:42 GMT -5
I see a lot of uses for a spread sheet that helps organize the initial setup of these processors as well as keeping a record of all your input and output settings, electrical equipment and speakers. Especially for new users. It also can be used to search for the location of a setting you are looking for in the spread sheet instead of poking through the menu on the processor to find it. organizing all the info in the spreadsheet before you do the setup on the processor allows you to think through all the possibilities so you can hopefully avoid redoing things on the processor which can be cumbersome. If you know the setup menu on the RMC-1 like the back of your hand then that wouldn't be something you would utilize. I use this to keep a list of all my equipment in one place and i'm also to cheep to pay for a movie data base so i use the spreadsheet to document the media i have so i can search use the data that's important to me. Format, Atmos or not and a few others that i put in the spreadsheet. This works for me so i thought i would share it with other members of this forum. It it works for you and you find it useful, please go ahead and use it. If its not, that's fine. Makes sense. I have 3 inputs - iMac, 4K Blu-ray player and ATV4K. And honestly I really like and appreciate your organization. That’s pretty impressive.
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Post by Mikomill on Apr 3, 2020 15:15:26 GMT -5
Thank you, hopefully it'll be useful to a few forum members.
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 3, 2020 15:20:54 GMT -5
Perhaps it's because the predominant audio in a movie is the dialogue. Whether Dialnorm is on or off, the author's intent is the same. Keeping it on is how Dolby intends to manage and equalize volume between program types. I hope the article explains enough to put the Dialnorm discussion to rest.
I read that it's because the normalization is always centered at the frequency where most voices are.
If I understood it correctly dolby tracks should never have this feature disabled because the meta data value is set during mixing. If off the tracks could be played at wrong volume. Not a biggy but there could be differences between some movies. But it seems there are a default value for movies, but it's not enforced, so some movies could have different volume.
The bad thing though is that because DTS does not use this feature there will be a volume difference compared to Dolby as explained in the article. Unless the prepro fixes this difference before output.
You could always fall back to using your volume control to control volume. I know it's a novel concept.
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Post by hsamwel on Apr 5, 2020 5:39:40 GMT -5
I read that it's because the normalization is always centered at the frequency where most voices are.
If I understood it correctly dolby tracks should never have this feature disabled because the meta data value is set during mixing. If off the tracks could be played at wrong volume. Not a biggy but there could be differences between some movies. But it seems there are a default value for movies, but it's not enforced, so some movies could have different volume.
The bad thing though is that because DTS does not use this feature there will be a volume difference compared to Dolby as explained in the article. Unless the prepro fixes this difference before output.
You could always fall back to using your volume control to control volume. I know it's a novel concept. I have no issues with either the normalization or volume differences. It’s ok to discuss this topic I hope? For some the volume level is very important. Even though some don’t care if it’s different between formats it should be even leveled with either Dolby, DTS or PCM. Atleast not major differences like Atmos vs Neural:X which is well above 10db difference.
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 5, 2020 7:13:46 GMT -5
You could always fall back to using your volume control to control volume. I know it's a novel concept. I have no issues with either the normalization or volume differences. It’s ok to discuss this topic I hope? For some the volume level is very important. Even though some don’t care if it’s different between formats it should be even leveled with either Dolby, DTS or PCM. Atleast not major differences like Atmos vs Neural:X which is well above 10db difference. If you never turn your system on, you will always have the same level. I don't share your concerns.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 8:20:12 GMT -5
You could always fall back to using your volume control to control volume. I know it's a novel concept. I have no issues with either the normalization or volume differences. It’s ok to discuss this topic I hope? For some the volume level is very important. Even though some don’t care if it’s different between formats it should be even leveled with either Dolby, DTS or PCM. Atleast not major differences like Atmos vs Neural:X which is well above 10db difference.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 8:38:26 GMT -5
I read that it's because the normalization is always centered at the frequency where most voices are.
If I understood it correctly dolby tracks should never have this feature disabled because the meta data value is set during mixing. If off the tracks could be played at wrong volume. Not a biggy but there could be differences between some movies. But it seems there are a default value for movies, but it's not enforced, so some movies could have different volume.
The bad thing though is that because DTS does not use this feature there will be a volume difference compared to Dolby as explained in the article. Unless the prepro fixes this difference before output.
You could always fall back to using your volume control to control volume. I know it's a novel concept. In all the articles I've read trying to best understand dialnorm, I never found anything describing a "notch filter" which is effect what you are implying whether you realize it or not. This is really simple. Dialnorm adjusts the overall "level" across the board. Not for one channel or a range of frequencies. Therefore, a simple "novel concept" like adjusting the volume knob should suffice. Well, it doesn't because that is not what manifests on my RMC and obviously others.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 8:40:56 GMT -5
I have no issues with either the normalization or volume differences. It’s ok to discuss this topic I hope? For some the volume level is very important. Even though some don’t care if it’s different between formats it should be even leveled with either Dolby, DTS or PCM. Atleast not major differences like Atmos vs Neural:X which is well above 10db difference. If you never turn your system on, you will always have the same level. I don't share your concerns. This response is very confusing because you use the word "share". Do you mean that you do not experience these issues? Do you mean that you don't care that others are having odd behavior from this unit? Or, do you mean that you do experience the same thing and actually enjoy having equipment that behaves this way? I'm only looking for clarification. 😉
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Post by PaulBe on Apr 5, 2020 9:56:21 GMT -5
If you never turn your system on, you will always have the same level. I don't share your concerns. This response is very confusing because you use the word "share". Do you mean that you do not experience these issues? Do you mean that you don't care that others are having odd behavior from this unit? Or, do you mean that you do experience the same thing and actually enjoy having equipment that behaves this way? I'm only looking for clarification. 😉 Do I get any other choices than to answer your three leading questions? The RMC has five volume controls on the Remote: 1. Overall volume 2. Center 3. Sub 4. Surround 5. Height They are there for good reasons. People need to learn how to use them. Perceived volume has a somewhat casual relationship to absolute volume. Perceived volume includes time, room curve, applied house curve, psycho-acoustics, listener anatomical differences, listener cognitive differences, more. Dts and Dolby are different. There are too many variables in recordings and techniques, to create or insist upon the kind of standards that some here want. Recordings are different; Good. As a user, I get choices as to how to listen; Good. Professional opinion - The odd behavior is coming more from the users than from the RMC. Their 'circle of confusion' is self perpetuating. The RMC is an Indy 500 car. Having a license to drive, having expertise in some other technical field, or even owning an Indy 500 car, does not make anyone a race car driver. Some people here would be less frustrated if they sought professional help and installation. Good professionals limit or break the 'circle of confusion'. Caveat - Professionals have different opinions. Good outcomes can be derived from differing opinions. Read this book: Sound Reproduction, Third Edition, by Floyd Toole
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 860
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Post by richb on Apr 5, 2020 10:00:25 GMT -5
I have no issues with either the normalization or volume differences. It’s ok to discuss this topic I hope? For some the volume level is very important. Even though some don’t care if it’s different between formats it should be even leveled with either Dolby, DTS or PCM. Atleast not major differences like Atmos vs Neural:X which is well above 10db difference. If you never turn your system on, you will always have the same level. I don't share your concerns. 80%+ of the sounds is coming from the center channel so changing this level is going to obvious. If there are Dolby test files with and without dialnorm, this issue should be put possible to put to bed one way or the other. The Marantz AV8801 had a popup to display the dialnorm level that lasted for a few seconds. Dialmnorm is something we must live with but in reality, it is a dumb feature. It is not keeping the volume consistent. Volume level requirements are all over the place on the RMC-1 (and could be with other processors). The last time I checked, everything DTS is played at least 6 dB lower. Sources from the ARC or the ATV4K usually require a 10dB boost over broadcast played via TiVo. I am not sure why the RMC-1 is different than the XMC-1 which was much more consistent. - Rich
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Post by cjcody on Apr 5, 2020 10:03:47 GMT -5
How do you use the mic to perform room correction without dirac function until little black box comes?
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 11:07:06 GMT -5
This response is very confusing because you use the word "share". Do you mean that you do not experience these issues? Do you mean that you don't care that others are having odd behavior from this unit? Or, do you mean that you do experience the same thing and actually enjoy having equipment that behaves this way? I'm only looking for clarification. 😉 Do I get any other choices than to answer your three leading questions? The RMC has five volume controls on the Remote: 1. Overall volume 2. Center 3. Sub 4. Surround 5. Height They are there for good reasons. People need to learn how to use them. Perceived volume has a somewhat casual relationship to absolute volume. Perceived volume includes time, room curve, applied house curve, psycho-acoustics, listener anatomical differences, listener cognitive differences, more. Dts and Dolby are different. There are too many variables in recordings and techniques to create or insist upon the kind of standards that some here want. Recordings are different; Good. As a user, I get choices as to how to listen; Good. Professional opinion - The odd behavior is coming more from the users than from the RMC. Their 'circle of confusion' is self perpetuating. The RMC is an Indy 500 car. Having a license to drive, having expertise in some other technical field, or even owning an Indy 500 car, does not make anyone a race car driver. Some people here would be less frustrated if they sought professional help and installation. Good professionals limit or break the 'circle of confusion'. Caveat - Professionals have different opinions. Good outcomes can be derived from differing opinions. Read this book: Sound Reproduction, Third Edition, by Floyd Toole Holy smokes.. It's like talking to a wall. Yes, you are right.. All these things occurred simultaneously with a FW release. I'm going attempt to remove myself, again, from this conversation as it goes nowhere.
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Post by ttocs on Apr 5, 2020 11:22:19 GMT -5
Holy smokes.. It's like talking to a wall. I'm going attempt to remove myself, again, from this conversation as it goes nowhere.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 11:29:26 GMT -5
Holy smokes.. It's like talking to a wall. I'm going attempt to remove myself, again, from this conversation as it goes nowhere. Hahaha
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Post by megash0n on Apr 5, 2020 15:29:12 GMT -5
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Post by Thunderduck on Apr 6, 2020 7:18:04 GMT -5
The past week or so I have had a strange issue become more prevalent. I normally have the Standby set for Video Remains On. Several times this past weekend and again just now, the video signal is suddenly lost. Audio is fine. The only way I have found to get the video back is to power up the unit. But, when I power on, the unit powers up as if it was set for Lowest Power.
This same issue has happened in the past on rare occasions, but has recently been occurring more frequently. Any ideas as to what may be going on? Have not reported to Emotiva as yet but will do so later on this morning.
Thanks for any ideas.
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Post by megash0n on Apr 6, 2020 7:43:54 GMT -5
The past week or so I have had a strange issue become more prevalent. I normally have the Standby set for Video Remains On. Several times this past weekend and again just now, the video signal is suddenly lost. Audio is fine. The only way I have found to get the video back is to power up the unit. But, when I power on, the unit powers up as if it was set for Lowest Power. This same issue has happened in the past on rare occasions, but has recently been occurring more frequently. Any ideas as to what may be going on? Have not reported to Emotiva as yet but will do so later on this morning. Thanks for any ideas. I apologize if this has been said before regarding any of your issues, or is redundant. I don't know for a fact, but I would say, if you flip the switch off, the unit will perform a full boot. It wouldn't have a way to be "half off". Secondly, are you matching the correct HDMI output to the correct HDMI input? For example, if your input on the TV is ARC capable, you'll need to use HDMI out 2 on the RMC. If not, use HDMI one. They don't play nice otherwise. This nifty feature that the board taught me has eliminated all my HDMI handshake issues that were as you describe.
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Post by Thunderduck on Apr 6, 2020 8:01:00 GMT -5
The past week or so I have had a strange issue become more prevalent. I normally have the Standby set for Video Remains On. Several times this past weekend and again just now, the video signal is suddenly lost. Audio is fine. The only way I have found to get the video back is to power up the unit. But, when I power on, the unit powers up as if it was set for Lowest Power. This same issue has happened in the past on rare occasions, but has recently been occurring more frequently. Any ideas as to what may be going on? Have not reported to Emotiva as yet but will do so later on this morning. Thanks for any ideas. I apologize if this has been said before regarding any of your issues, or is redundant. I don't know for a fact, but I would say, if you flip the switch off, the unit will perform a full boot. It wouldn't have a way to be "half off". Secondly, are you matching the correct HDMI output to the correct HDMI input? For example, if your input on the TV is ARC capable, you'll need to use HDMI out 2 on the RMC. If not, use HDMI one. They don't play nice otherwise. This nifty feature that the board taught me has eliminated all my HDMI handshake issues that were as you describe. Using HDMI out 2. Do not use ARC. Use the RMC remote to power on or off (Standby or On button). Do not normally use the switch on the back of the unit unless I want to do a reboot. When this issue happens, the unit is definitely in Standby mode of Video Remains On. Keep in this mode because of other family member. Watching tv normally when all of as sudden the video goes away and I push the On button on the remote to turn the unit on. Unit comes on as if it has been set for Lowest Power. That is, it goes through the long boot process. After the unit comes on, I confirm that Standby is set for Video Remains On. The setting has not changed. It is always as it should be. Will try HDMI 1 out and see if that does anything. But will take a while to confirm if any improvement. Appreciate the help/advice. Steve EDIT: Sure I am overlooking something obvious, but when I switched to HDMI 1 out, I only get a signal from the tv. Only checked input that has my Bluray player connected, but could not get a signal from it or from the RMC when I tried to go to the Menu. Switched back to output 2 and all back to normal. Will see what support has to say about what is going on. Thanks again for help. EDIT 2: I screwed up the info I provided so bad. Let me try again. The video being lost is the signal from the Fios cable box. This cable box is connected to the RMC's Input 1 via HDMI cable. The RMC is connected to the tv via the HDMI 2 output. So the path of the video signal is from the cable box to the RMC and then to the tv. I am beginning to think it has something to do with the cable box. But, what could the cable box be doing that would cause the RMC to go into Lowest Power mode? My only defense for the poor description of the problem is that I grew up when there were only 3 channels, RCA and Motorola where the big tv brands, and rabbit ears or outside antennas where how you received the signal. And don't forget tubes! Remember when every store and gas station had a tube testing machine. So please go easy on me. :-) Steve
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Post by megash0n on Apr 6, 2020 12:12:23 GMT -5
I apologize if this has been said before regarding any of your issues, or is redundant. I don't know for a fact, but I would say, if you flip the switch off, the unit will perform a full boot. It wouldn't have a way to be "half off". Secondly, are you matching the correct HDMI output to the correct HDMI input? For example, if your input on the TV is ARC capable, you'll need to use HDMI out 2 on the RMC. If not, use HDMI one. They don't play nice otherwise. This nifty feature that the board taught me has eliminated all my HDMI handshake issues that were as you describe. Using HDMI out 2. Do not use ARC. Use the RMC remote to power on or off (Standby or On button). Do not normally use the switch on the back of the unit unless I want to do a reboot. When this issue happens, the unit is definitely in Standby mode of Video Remains On. Keep in this mode because of other family member. Watching tv normally when all of as sudden the video goes away and I push the On button on the remote to turn the unit on. Unit comes on as if it has been set for Lowest Power. That is, it goes through the long boot process. After the unit comes on, I confirm that Standby is set for Video Remains On. The setting has not changed. It is always as it should be. Will try HDMI 1 out and see if that does anything. But will take a while to confirm if any improvement. Appreciate the help/advice. Steve EDIT: Sure I am overlooking something obvious, but when I switched to HDMI 1 out, I only get a signal from the tv. Only checked input that has my Bluray player connected, but could not get a signal from it or from the RMC when I tried to go to the Menu. Switched back to output 2 and all back to normal. Will see what support has to say about what is going on. Thanks again for help. EDIT 2: I screwed up the info I provided so bad. Let me try again. The video being lost is the signal from the Fios cable box. This cable box is connected to the RMC's Input 1 via HDMI cable. The RMC is connected to the tv via the HDMI 2 output. So the path of the video signal is from the cable box to the RMC and then to the tv. I am beginning to think it has something to do with the cable box. But, what could the cable box be doing that would cause the RMC to go into Lowest Power mode? My only defense for the poor description of the problem is that I grew up when there were only 3 channels, RCA and Motorola where the big tv brands, and rabbit ears or outside antennas where how you received the signal. And don't forget tubes! Remember when every store and gas station had a tube testing machine. So please go easy on me. :-) Steve If you are having to power cycle the RMC, I would expect that particular boot up to be a "full boot" And still display the correct power setting in the menu after booting. On the Xbox for example... You can enable the "instant on", but if you unplug the power, it has to do a full boot the first time. As far as HDMI out 1, I don't recall having to do anything specific, but if your tv input doesn't having arc capabilities, you'll wanna use that output to limit your issues. Maybe hook it all up and do a full power cycle.
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Post by Thunderduck on Apr 6, 2020 12:31:25 GMT -5
Using HDMI out 2. Do not use ARC. Use the RMC remote to power on or off (Standby or On button). Do not normally use the switch on the back of the unit unless I want to do a reboot. When this issue happens, the unit is definitely in Standby mode of Video Remains On. Keep in this mode because of other family member. Watching tv normally when all of as sudden the video goes away and I push the On button on the remote to turn the unit on. Unit comes on as if it has been set for Lowest Power. That is, it goes through the long boot process. After the unit comes on, I confirm that Standby is set for Video Remains On. The setting has not changed. It is always as it should be. Will try HDMI 1 out and see if that does anything. But will take a while to confirm if any improvement. Appreciate the help/advice. Steve EDIT: Sure I am overlooking something obvious, but when I switched to HDMI 1 out, I only get a signal from the tv. Only checked input that has my Bluray player connected, but could not get a signal from it or from the RMC when I tried to go to the Menu. Switched back to output 2 and all back to normal. Will see what support has to say about what is going on. Thanks again for help. EDIT 2: I screwed up the info I provided so bad. Let me try again. The video being lost is the signal from the Fios cable box. This cable box is connected to the RMC's Input 1 via HDMI cable. The RMC is connected to the tv via the HDMI 2 output. So the path of the video signal is from the cable box to the RMC and then to the tv. I am beginning to think it has something to do with the cable box. But, what could the cable box be doing that would cause the RMC to go into Lowest Power mode? My only defense for the poor description of the problem is that I grew up when there were only 3 channels, RCA and Motorola where the big tv brands, and rabbit ears or outside antennas where how you received the signal. And don't forget tubes! Remember when every store and gas station had a tube testing machine. So please go easy on me. :-) Steve If you are having to power cycle the RMC, I would expect that particular boot up to be a "full boot" And still display the correct power setting in the menu after booting. On the Xbox for example... You can enable the "instant on", but if you unplug the power, it has to do a full boot the first time. As far as HDMI out 1, I don't recall having to do anything specific, but if your tv input doesn't having arc capabilities, you'll wanna use that output to limit your issues. Maybe hook it all up and do a full power cycle. The funny thing with this issue is that I am not forcing the RMC to do a power cycle (full boot), it is doing it on its own. Since the tv is being used with the RMC "off" (Video Remains On), the way I have been getting the video back is to "turn the RMC on". That is, push the On button on the RMC's remote. At this time the RMC does the "full boot" instead of the quick boot which I would expect with the Video Remains On setting. Will give HDMI 1 out another try later when I can full power cycle and see how that goes. Best Regards, Steve
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