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Post by dimora on Aug 23, 2019 15:06:45 GMT -5
So Keith...thanks for the above.
Would you recommend I try my presets as:
1) Fronts SMALL for home theater use 2) Fronts LARGE with enhanced bass OFF for two-channel stereo listening
- or would you experiment with comparing fronts LARGE with enhanced bass ON for home theater use to #1 above?
Shane
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Post by SOWK on Aug 23, 2019 15:43:54 GMT -5
Can I get confirmation that this is how everyone understands Emotiva's Enhanced Bass setup? Keith... I posted this a long time ago... You should have responded back then.
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Post by SOWK on Aug 23, 2019 15:50:57 GMT -5
There is actually a correction (or change) to what's in the manual..... (This is true for the RMC-1, RMC-1L, and XMC-2..... )
When Enhanced Bass is ON, and a speaker is set to large, bass below the crossover point continues to be produced by the speaker, AND IS ALSO SENT TO THE SUB. However, the bass from the LFE channel, which is routed to your sub, is NOT routed to your large speakers in addition to the sub.
The reasons why it isn't recommended are: - The whole reason for adding a sub is to allow it to handle the frequencies that are difficult for normal speakers to produce in large amounts. (The assumption is that a good sub is optimized for producing lots of low bass while regular speakers are not.) (If your main speakers have real subs in them, then you don't need a separate sub. If you need a separate sub, then it's probably because your main speakers don't do a great job with low bass frequencies.)
- By using your main speakers as subs, you are increasing the total number of subs, and so making the process of setting them and arranging them optimally around the room much more complicated. (And, since your main speakers are limited to specific room locations, you do not have the opportunity to put them in the optimum location for a sub.) - Bass management is carefully configured to divide the various frequency ranges between your speakers. (The whole idea of Bass Management is to divide up the frequencies so each speaker handles only the frequencies it's optimized for... by using Enhanced Bass you are bypassing part of this process. This make sit less likely that you'll be able to achieve a smooth transition between your sub and your other speakers. )
So is this what is does now?
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Post by SteveH on Aug 23, 2019 16:32:17 GMT -5
So Keith...thanks for the above. Would you recommend I try my presets as: 1) Fronts SMALL for home theater use 2) Fronts LARGE with enhanced bass OFF for two-channel stereo listening - or would you experiment with comparing fronts LARGE with enhanced bass ON for home theater use to #1 above? Shane You technically do have a third preset, "Reference Stereo". If I am reading the manually correctly, Reference Stereo ignores the small/large speaker setting for two channel operation and treats the two main speakers as large. All frequencies are sent to the two main speakers. I do use Reference Stereo everyday and the two mains are definitely operating full range. Per the manual: In Reference Stereo Mode: • The output is always TWO CHANNEL STEREO. • There is NO bass management, and NOTHING is sent to the subwoofer. Note: Because Reference Stereo Mode does not include bass management, care should be used when playing “small” speakers in this mode. My presets are: Reference Stereo - true two channel listening. Preset 1) Music - Fronts large, enhanced bass ON for a little more low end enhancement. Preset 2) Movies - Fronts large, enhanced bass ON, Center channel filters tweaked for dialogue (movie set up is 7.2.4)
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Post by hahnsoulo on Aug 23, 2019 18:47:14 GMT -5
Hey everybody, I just joined the club. $2650 to upgrade my XMC-1 to an RMC-1 was too good of a deal to pass up. Now I begin the waiting game...
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Post by dimora on Aug 23, 2019 19:01:07 GMT -5
Hey everybody, I just joined the club. $2650 to upgrade my XMC-1 to an RMC-1 was too good of a deal to pass up. Now I begin the waiting game... You’ll like it. I like it better than my XMC-1. I want DIRAC...but it’s coming soon.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 23, 2019 19:19:00 GMT -5
I would remind you that you can set up one Speaker Preset for two channel listening..... And, in that one, set the fronts to large, and not use the sub..... And set up the OTHER Speaker Preset for movies..... And, in that one, set the fronts to small, and use the sub with standard bass management....
I use my XMC presets that way, for HT and 2 Channel, in my case totally different speaker systems. I would still like to see an option I’d call “Reference Bass”, because it would still work in reference mode and would be primarily for stereo listening. The L/R subwoofer outputs would simply duplicate the full range L/R main outputs, the subwoofer’s crossover would then perform the low pass function. It would allow the subs to fill in below the range of the mains. Is this possible given the options of the chipsets involved, simply copy the signal from L and R main to the L and R sub? Ideally it would work with all the ‘stereo’ modes, but especially in Reference Mode.
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Post by creimes on Aug 23, 2019 19:57:57 GMT -5
So Keith...thanks for the above. Would you recommend I try my presets as: 1) Fronts SMALL for home theater use 2) Fronts LARGE with enhanced bass OFF for two-channel stereo listening - or would you experiment with comparing fronts LARGE with enhanced bass ON for home theater use to #1 above? Shane With my XMC-1 I have been using Reference Stereo for strictly 2ch use with music, have you tried that and if so how do you like it. Chad
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Post by wkingincharge on Aug 23, 2019 20:06:26 GMT -5
Hey everybody, I just joined the club. $2650 to upgrade my XMC-1 to an RMC-1 was too good of a deal to pass up. Now I begin the waiting game... Congrats!! The waiting game is the tough part. I didn't realize how much not having my XMC-1 would be so next week cant arrive soon enough.
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Post by Geronimo on Aug 23, 2019 22:13:20 GMT -5
Just so that everyone, and new owners keep in mind with the REFERENCE STEREO mode:
This mode purposely has NO EQ, and NO BASS MANAGEMENT applied, and you CANNOT enable or apply EQ\Bass Management.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 23, 2019 22:39:13 GMT -5
Just so that everyone, and new owners keep in mind with the REFERENCE STEREO MODE: This mode purposely has NO EQ, and NO BASS MANAGEMENT applied, and you CANNOT enable or apply EQ\Bass Management. Right, just like the XMC-1 has always been, that's why I'd like to see them add the "Reference Bass" I described above. If they could do it, it would still be pure analog.
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Post by cwt on Aug 24, 2019 5:30:32 GMT -5
Right, just like the XMC-1 has always been, that's why I'd like to see them add the "Reference Bass" I described above. If they could do it, it would still be pure analog. Its a good idea to integrate the sub/s but without an a/d conversion I can see a y splitter hardware arrangement being required to duplicate the full range l/r signal . I hope Ime off the mark but
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Post by klinemj on Aug 24, 2019 6:21:34 GMT -5
Right, just like the XMC-1 has always been, that's why I'd like to see them add the "Reference Bass" I described above. If they could do it, it would still be pure analog. Its a good idea to integrate the sub/s but without an a/d conversion I can see a y splitter hardware arrangement being required to duplicate the full range l/r signal . I hope Ime off the mark but I use a sub in reference stereo by using splitters. I run the fronts full range and use the sub's controls to tailor its level, crossover, and phase. Mark
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Post by cwt on Aug 24, 2019 6:40:52 GMT -5
Its a good idea to integrate the sub/s but without an a/d conversion I can see a y splitter hardware arrangement being required to duplicate the full range l/r signal . I hope Ime off the mark but I use a sub in reference stereo by using splitters. I run the fronts full range and use the sub's controls to tailor its level, crossover, and phase. Mark That would emulate what Audioht wants perfectly Ide think
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Post by klinemj on Aug 24, 2019 7:29:04 GMT -5
I use a sub in reference stereo by using splitters. I run the fronts full range and use the sub's controls to tailor its level, crossover, and phase. Mark That would emulate what Audioht wants perfectly Ide think Yep - I even drew out how I plan to do it if I get an XMC-2. I already do it with my XMC-1. And, I do it with toggling between 2 different amps for FR/FL...complicated but effective wiring. AudioHTIT - but it would be really nice if this could be done internally via a FW change! Here's a link: -->CLICK HERE<--Mark
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Post by AudioHTIT on Aug 24, 2019 8:13:46 GMT -5
Right, just like the XMC-1 has always been, that's why I'd like to see them add the "Reference Bass" I described above. If they could do it, it would still be pure analog. Its a good idea to integrate the sub/s but without an a/d conversion I can see a y splitter hardware arrangement being required to duplicate the full range l/r signal . I hope Ime off the mark but Right, but the splitter removes the sub from the sub output, and eliminates the ability to use the processor’s bass management for my HT system. If it was possible just to ‘copy’ the L/R signal to the sub outs for the two channel speaker preset, then it could be used traditionally for the HT preset. Copying signal is a nice feature, years ago I had an Anthem AVM30 that allowed you to copy the surround signal to the rear for 5.1 material, it had the effect of moving the surround image back. I’ve heard others mention it as a solution to pinned Atmos as well. But I digress, “Reference Bass”, copy the (analog) L/R mains signal to the L/R subs outputs. I use a sub in reference stereo by using splitters. I run the fronts full range and use the sub's controls to tailor its level, crossover, and phase. Mark I studied your design when you first came up with it, I didn’t think it would meet my needs, but I’ll look again. I’d prefer to use the speaker presets for my two different systems (as my subs also have presets), and the copy I describe would work for me and others very cleanly. I’d like to hear from Lonnie or KeithL if it’s possible.
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klinemj
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Post by klinemj on Aug 24, 2019 8:40:01 GMT -5
Its a good idea to integrate the sub/s but without an a/d conversion I can see a y splitter hardware arrangement being required to duplicate the full range l/r signal . I hope Ime off the mark but Right, but the splitter removes the sub from the sub output, and eliminates the ability to use the processor’s bass management for my HT system. If it was possible just to ‘copy’ the L/R signal to the sub outs for the two channel speaker preset, then it could be used traditionally for the HT preset. Copying signal is a nice feature, years ago I had an Anthem AVM30 that allowed you to copy the surround signal to the rear for 5.1 material, it had the effect of moving the surround image back. I’ve heard others mention it as a solution to pinned Atmos as well. But I digress, “Reference Bass”, copy the the L/R mains to the L/R subs. I use a sub in reference stereo by using splitters. I run the fronts full range and use the sub's controls to tailor its level, crossover, and phase. Mark I studied your design when you first came up with it, I didn’t think it would meet my needs, but I’ll look again. I’d prefer to use the speaker presets for my two different systems (as my subs also have presets), and the copy I describe would work for me (and I think others), but the signal paths may not be there. Mine does not remove the subs from bass MGMT for HT. In Ref. Stereo, my sub controls the bass MGMT. In HT mode, the XMC controls it. And, for simplicity, look at the 2nd diagram in the first post. That's for using just 1 type of amp for FR/FL. I use 2 different types (tube for stereo and Hypex for HT), and that's complicated. Mark
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Post by goozoo on Aug 24, 2019 19:33:49 GMT -5
While there is all this talk of bass management, readers might be interested in what DIRAC is releasing at CEDIA 2019. www.avnirvana.com/threads/dirac-live-bass-management-set-to-make-its-official-debut-at-cedia-2019.5374/One can also accomplish the same thing with Multi Sub Optimizer software (free download), REW and an outboard DSP for ~$150. My recommendation is to see if you like what DIRAC does to the bass before spending $400 for the module. What is not clear to me is how the module will be implemented with the existing software. There is still also the limitation that the calibration file for the mic is off axis (meaning measurements are to be taken at 90 degrees to the speaker). This falls apart however when you’re taking measurements for height channels where the cal file needs to be on axis. Perhaps they are now looking at the response of the room and mic orientation makes no difference.
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Post by nospam on Aug 24, 2019 19:50:27 GMT -5
Historically, Emotiva has never been among the first to receive Dirac Live updates (the XMC-1 never received the DL 2.x update). It would be amazing if Emotiva supports it out of the gate [with the initial Dirac implementation], but that may be wishful thinking. It could be another long wait for the premium DL Bass Management options.
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Post by bblv on Aug 24, 2019 19:59:36 GMT -5
While there is all this talk of bass management, readers might be interested in what DIRAC is releasing at CEDIA 2019. www.avnirvana.com/threads/dirac-live-bass-management-set-to-make-its-official-debut-at-cedia-2019.5374/One can also accomplish the same thing with Multi Sub Optimizer software (free download), REW and an outboard DSP for ~$150. My recommendation is to see if you like what DIRAC does to the bass before spending $400 for the module. What is not clear to me is how the module will be implemented with the existing software. There is still also the limitation that the calibration file for the mic is off axis (meaning measurements are to be taken at 90 degrees to the speaker). This falls apart however when you’re taking measurements for height channels where the cal file needs to be on axis. Perhaps they are now looking at the response of the room and mic orientation makes no difference. Hopefully this coincides with an estimated *cough cough* release date *cough cough* for Emo's subwoofer expansion module.
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