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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 4, 2019 19:01:59 GMT -5
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Post by chicagorspec on Feb 4, 2019 20:20:34 GMT -5
Boom, if you enjoyed the PA-1/300ASC, based on Class D architecture originally designed circa 2004, try a 1200AS2-based amp from ICE, with all-new architecture benefiting from the learnings of an additional decade. The 1200AS2 is the first amp from ICE based on its all-new chipset, and was originally released in 2017. Class D is evolving all the time, and quickly! The PA-1 certainly has its charms for Emotiva fans, especially those who want a desktop piece to match their DC-1 (and maybe DC-2 and headphone amp, if they ever get released and not just teased). For someone not fussed with that, much more power and better sound quality are available at little additional cost. I just sold my first two 1200AS2 amps after receiving my new 6-channel (three 1200AS2 modules in each case) models for $800 each. Happy listening.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 4, 2019 20:41:57 GMT -5
I suspect that Big Dan probably has additional B&O ICE module-based amps in the works as we speak.
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klinemj
Emo VIPs 
Official Emofest Scribe
Posts: 15,092
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Post by klinemj on Feb 4, 2019 21:17:20 GMT -5
Glad you like them. I do challenge you saying that "The EMOTIVA STEALTH PA-1 BALANCED CLASS-D MONOBLOCK AMPLIFIER breaks the barriers between Class-D technology and “audiophile” sound quality." This makes it sound like the PA-1 is the first to do that. It might be, as you say in the opening, the first you have heard that do this. But, sorry...Bruno P beat Emotiva to that a long time ago (and as chicagorspec notes...these ICE modules have been around for a while). Bruno's creations in the Class D space have long been touted as groundbreaking with regard to Class D for audiophiles. And, while the price of an assembled version is...ridiculous. The kit price is fantastic. I do agree with Big Dan that Class D will likely play a major role in the future, especially with Atmos systems. Not many people will want 28 channels of giant power hungry amps. Some will, but...not most. Mark |
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Post by chicagorspec on Feb 4, 2019 21:27:42 GMT -5
I suspect that Big Dan probably has additional B&O ICE module-based amps in the works as we speak. I’ll leave the guessing as to what Big Dan has in the works to you, given he has a flagship processor that can’t play through a movie and at least several other products that have been talked about for 18 months and have yet to see the light of day. Until he gets around to it, if ever, there are several interesting Class D choices out there already. |
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Post by Casey Leedom on Feb 5, 2019 1:11:37 GMT -5
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Post by repeetavx on Feb 5, 2019 1:37:18 GMT -5
Since my XMC-1 is fully balanced from the DACs, I've been wanting a fully balanced amp to go with it. So I guess that you think that a set of these amps would be a worthy replacement for my gen 1 XPA-2s?
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Post by teaman on Feb 5, 2019 3:15:55 GMT -5
Good review Boom, although I still have zero interest in a 140 wpc....or less monoblock Class D amp. At least if you are going to get in the game, get in it. 300 wpc should be the minimum knowing you can grab a Crown stereo amp for under $300 with way more power. This just seems like a baby step into the foray of Class D at a high price. Oh well, I'm sure they are selling plenty of them....or they will be discontinued in eight months. Usually the rule of thumb now.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 5, 2019 5:28:13 GMT -5
...This makes it sound like the PA-1 is the first to do that. It might be, as you say in the opening, the first you have heard that do this. But, sorry...Bruno P beat Emotiva to that a long time ago (and as chicagorspec notes...these ICE modules have been around for a while). Bruno's creations in the Class D space have long been touted as groundbreaking with regard to Class D for audiophiles. And, while the price of an assembled version is...ridiculous. The kit price is fantastic...Mark You're absolutely right, Mark - on all points. But since most cannot and will not consider kits, this product does make the Emotiva PA-1 the first affordable Class-D with audiophile sound. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 5, 2019 5:33:06 GMT -5
Since my XMC-1 is fully balanced from the DACs, I've been wanting a fully balanced amp to go with it. So I guess that you think that a set of these amps would be a worthy replacement for my gen 1 XPA-2s? I do indeed. But speaker compatibility DOES play a part. I'd certainly recommend that you at least try them. They're so light and small that you can return them for peanuts if you don't care for the sound. I'd point out that garbulky compared the PA-1s to his XPA-1, second-generation power amps and found the PA-1s as good despite some small audible differences. So good that he briefly entertained the idea of selling his XPA-1 amps and replacing them with the PA-1s. Ultimately, though, he decided to stick with what he had. But the fact that he even considered such a swap is a HUGE endorsement of the PA-1s, IMHO. Boomzilla |
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 5, 2019 5:49:16 GMT -5
Good review Boom, although I still have zero interest in a 140 wpc....or less monoblock Class D amp. At least if you are going to get in the game, get in it. 300 wpc should be the minimum knowing you can grab a Crown stereo amp for under $300 with way more power. This just seems like a baby step into the foray of Class D at a high price. Oh well, I'm sure they are selling plenty of them....or they will be discontinued in eight months. Usually the rule of thumb now. They well may be discontinued. Dan bought a huge lot of the ICE modules from B&O, and when those are gone, I'm suspecting that new Emotiva-B&O co-designed modules may be in production that will replace the current modules. It also wouldn't surprise me if the replacement modules have more power on tap. As to comparisons with Crown - don't make me laugh. I've owned a BUNCH of Crowns with class-D, and I can tell you that Emotiva's PA-1 spanks them ALL in sound-quality, despite the Crowns having more power available. Really! Yes, the Crowns are great for PA use, but for home audio, they aren't even in the race. Use the right tool for the right job. The Emotiva PA-1 is worth twice or more its price as a home audio amp. The Crowns (despite their power-per-dollar advantage) aren't worth half their asking price as a home audio amp. This is my opinion, and I think that anyone who has heard both amps in a high-quality home audio system would agree. If they don't agree, for whatever reason, then they're entitled to their opinions, but that won't change mine. I think the PA-1s are the bargain of the ages, and in fact, both I and my Secrets editor had to go through my review to "tone down" the praise lest it seem utterly silly to those who haven't yet heard the PA-1. This ISN'T "commercial" Class-D! Boomzilla |
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Post by jackfish on Feb 5, 2019 9:48:29 GMT -5
D-Sonic amps are a real price/performance leader.
400 wpc for less than $1500.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 5, 2019 9:56:03 GMT -5
D-Sonic amps are a real price/performance leader. Sorry - not familiar with them. But any company who starts their web advertising with "Watts— can you have too many?" is highly (HIGHLY) suspect, in my experience. If that were the case, then I could buy the biggest QSC "pro" amp on the market and laugh all the way to the bank. No - watts are NOT the most important things in home audio power amplifier design. Unless you want to power a stadium, sound quality trumps watts every time. Even if the D-Sonic amps are voiced for home audio, $2375 for the M3-3000S gives me significant pause compared to the $600 / pair Emotiva PA-1s. . |
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Post by jackfish on Feb 5, 2019 10:00:10 GMT -5
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Post by jackfish on Feb 5, 2019 10:06:56 GMT -5
UPA-1s were the bargain of the ages.
Thank you for the review of the Emotiva PA-1. It is certainly a consideration for applications with relatively small rooms or efficient speakers.
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Post by jackfish on Feb 5, 2019 10:15:23 GMT -5
Please don’t misrepresent the premise of the D-Sonic homepage.
They are not saying watts are the most important thing in amplification. They are saying there are advantages to having more quality watts than less.
Watts per dollar they are on par with the Emotiva’s XPA-DR line and pretty close to the PA-1.
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Post by Boomzilla on Feb 5, 2019 11:34:11 GMT -5
UPA-1s were the bargain of the ages. Thank you for the review of the Emotiva PA-1. It is certainly a consideration for applications with relatively small rooms or efficient speakers. And these days, almost ALL speakers are "efficient," at least by the metrics of the earlier decades. Why? Because they're designed to be driven by AVRs! And in that comparison, the Emotiva PA-1s are head and shoulders above just about any AVR competition. I'm similarly questioning whether the D-Sonic amps ARE "accurate and musical," especially at their price. Let's give them the (big) benefit of the doubt and say they are. Mr. Laufman made a comment while I was interviewing him in connection with the Emotiva PA-1 review - and that comment resonated with my experience as well - He said "the 300 ICE modules are the VERY FIRST that I've ever heard that actually qualified as "audiophile-quality" from a Class-D module at a reasonable price." NOTE THE QUALIFIER. There are undoubtedly audiophile-quality Class-D modules on the market (and maybe the D-Sonics are in that group) that provide audiophile-quality sound (a loosely-defined term, for sure, but you know it when you hear it - the Crown products aren't). But the other audiophile-quality Class-D units aren't even CLOSE to the price of the Emotiva PA-1s. So what the PA-1s offer (that no other amp does) is the combination of audiophile-quality, Class-D amplification AND the least-expensive implementation on the market of that technology. What you don't get in the PA-1s are the following: Ultra-high power (want that? Go with Bruno P's creations or D-Sonic) Ultra-low impedance drive capability (want that? Go with Crown or another "pro" amp) High price, large size & heavy weight For MOST home audio, users can do without all three of those shortcomings. |
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Post by mshump on Feb 5, 2019 11:58:18 GMT -5
Nice review Boom. Thanks
Mark
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Post by emofrmcgy on Feb 5, 2019 12:33:34 GMT -5
D-Sonic amps are a real price/performance leader. Sorry - not familiar with them. But any company who starts their web advertising with "Watts— can you have too many?" is highly (HIGHLY) suspect, in my experience. If that were the case, then I could buy the biggest QSC "pro" amp on the market and laugh all the way to the bank. No - watts are NOT the most important things in home audio power amplifier design. Unless you want to power a stadium, sound quality trumps watts every time. Even if the D-Sonic amps are voiced for home audio, $2375 for the M3-3000S gives me significant pause compared to the $600 / pair Emotiva PA-1s. . And anyone who dismisses d-sonic for their webpage sales pitch becomes highly suspect as well. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Feb 5, 2019 14:15:12 GMT -5
Hmm, I appreciate your thoughts Boom, you have opened my mind to the possibility of class D joy.
Trey
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