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Post by davidl81 on Mar 16, 2022 23:33:23 GMT -5
Back in the day, I had cassette tapes, 8-tracks and LPs to compare sound qualities with. LPs were the best sounding of the lot because they sounded brighter (higher frequency response) compared to tapes. And had a sort of manual, 'random access' play unlike any tape medium at that time - you could go to any song in any order without having to FF or REW. We didn't own an open-reel (reel to reel) player so I can't comment on its sound. In 1985, after CDs appeared, I have to say they took the crown away from records. To me, CDs sound better (no noise, more dynamic range and random access play) even with a low-end CD player. Records sound different, more 'organic' and warm, but have so many factors that could affect the sound quality so you really need a mid-high end turntable with a good pick-up to reap those benefits. The stylus wears with time and so does the medium itself, which affects the sound. So its this constant tweaking and adjusting that you need to make, the constant cleaning and maintenance of the record and the player, that might be a novelty to someone new to Vinyl. Then there's the inner-most track never sounding as good as the outer-most one.... Remembering to lower the volume or hit 'mute' before the stylus touches the record surface so the 'pop' sound doesn't destroy my speakers.... Yes, so vinyl kinda sucks....  P.S. Let's talk about MiniDiscs next! You talk in’ about these little midget kinda guys? (LOL) l have two of these puppies….both from around 1988. Both of my blu ray players have the small indent that accommodates them. Samples only…I have no memory of where they came from but managed to dig them out. <button disabled="" class="c-attachment-insert--linked o-btn--sm">Attachment Deleted</button> The small ones from coke were inside 12 pack cases of coke back in the early 90s. I think they had like 2 or 4 songs on them. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2022 5:56:39 GMT -5
It can be scientifically proven that even the first 16/44.1 CDs ever struck are technically superior to the best vinyl system available (even today). And, of course, "the measurers" mistake (as they consistently do) the difference between measurements and sound. In the 1980s, Sony's digital "perfect sound forever" was a bald-faced lie. But now, the best of digital really IS superior in sound quality to vinyl. Really. If you disagree, then you haven't heard a really good digital system.
And not only is digital superior, but the cost of a good digital system is but a fraction of the cost of an equivalently good-sounding analog system. But not to taunt the vinyl enthusiasts too much - a cheap vinyl system does still sound better than a cheap digital one.
Nevertheless, vinyl is in its final death throes. In another decade, you won't be able to buy a new vinyl record (or a new turntable to play it on). In the meantime, really good digital continues to be less and less expensive. Sic transit gloria mundi.
Boom
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Mar 17, 2022 6:17:10 GMT -5
It can be scientifically proven that even the first 16/44.1 CDs ever struck are technically superior to the best vinyl system available (even today). And, of course, "the measurers" mistake (as they consistently do) the difference between measurements and sound. In the 1980s, Sony's digital "perfect sound forever" was a bald-faced lie. But now, the best of digital really IS superior in sound quality to vinyl. Really. If you disagree, then you haven't heard a really good digital system. And not only is digital superior, but the cost of a good digital system is but a fraction of the cost of an equivalently good-sounding analog system. But not to taunt the vinyl enthusiasts too much - a cheap vinyl system does still sound better than a cheap digital one. Nevertheless, vinyl is in its final death throes. In another decade, you won't be able to buy a new vinyl record (or a new turntable to play it on). In the meantime, really good digital continues to be less and less expensive. Sic transit gloria mundi. Boom I never owned any vinyl, but did listen to my father's CCR, Stones, Hendrix, etc. LPs on his old, cheap turntable. I did like the sound quality over my cassettes, but I was into mobile music in my early years. A Walkman, a boombox and eventually a car were the places I listened to music. Not places conducive to vinyl. LOL Once I started investing in a better home system, vinyl was almost extinct so a turntable was not in the equation. A few years ago I looked into vinyl and decided the cost was prohibitive and truly felt money was better spent improving the rest of my system rather than invest in another medium. Its not just the cost of the equipment, but also the cost of purchasing enough albums to have a decent library. I guess I'm pretty much just saying what Boom said. My lack of vinyl isn't because I dislike it, its because I made an economic decision to focus on digital. |
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 7:58:48 GMT -5
Not quite. They actually have a protective cassette around it, with a metal shutter, almost like a floppy disc....remember those? View AttachmentYes! (you’ve successfully jogged my memory). Only recently did I toss the last of my floppy discs. The mini disc came around at at time when I was already wrapped in all the format I could handle (raising kids and keeping my head above water etc.) The only thing I missed out on during those years was a compact digital recorder, to log my own personal moments behind the drums. I did what I could with a portable cassette recorder that rendered so poorly that only I could appreciate some of those captured moments. |
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Post by marcl on Mar 17, 2022 7:58:57 GMT -5
It can be scientifically proven that even the first 16/44.1 CDs ever struck are technically superior to the best vinyl system available (even today). And, of course, "the measurers" mistake (as they consistently do) the difference between measurements and sound. In the 1980s, Sony's digital "perfect sound forever" was a bald-faced lie. But now, the best of digital really IS superior in sound quality to vinyl. Really. If you disagree, then you haven't heard a really good digital system. And not only is digital superior, but the cost of a good digital system is but a fraction of the cost of an equivalently good-sounding analog system. But not to taunt the vinyl enthusiasts too much - a cheap vinyl system does still sound better than a cheap digital one. Nevertheless, vinyl is in its final death throes. In another decade, you won't be able to buy a new vinyl record (or a new turntable to play it on). In the meantime, really good digital continues to be less and less expensive. Sic transit gloria mundi. Boom Agreed! But the real difficulty is it's virtually impossible to compare apples:apples ... can't just put on a record and a then a CD and then a high res download and say "okay, which sounds better"? But physics is physics. "and Tuesday's just as bad" Marc |
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 8:11:01 GMT -5
smaller 45 rpm "singles" came out about a year after LPs. Remember the little plastic clip you had to snap into the middle of a 45 to play it on a "record player"? My old AR Turntable came with a beautiful 45 rpm adapter (machined aluminum). I was very pissed off when it went missing. Must be in the care of the owner of my old place! |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2022 8:20:43 GMT -5
Agreed! But the real difficulty is it's virtually impossible to compare apples:apples ... can't just put on a record and a then a CD and then a high res download and say "okay, which sounds better"? But physics is physics. "and Tuesday's just as bad" Marc No, you can't. PART of the playback quality is in the storage medium, and the other part is in the playback equipment. But I contend that it takes $10,000 of analog playback equipment to equal the quality of $1,000 of digital equipment. Note that the statement I just made doesn't address the quality of the source media. Not all records sound equally good. Not all digital files sound equally good, either (even if they're "bit perfect replicas"). We're still learning about digital reproduction (and the ways that our ears interpret it). Boom |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 17, 2022 9:04:21 GMT -5
Right there with you Glenn. The cost of excellent vinyl playback is well above the cost of digital. I still love and appreciate my vinyl, I have some great discs, but more and more of it is ripped to 48/24 files so I can enjoy it with digital convenience.
Trey
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 9:12:12 GMT -5
Agreed! But the real difficulty is it's virtually impossible to compare apples:apples ... can't just put on a record and a then a CD and then a high res download and say "okay, which sounds better"? But physics is physics. "and Tuesday's just as bad" Marc No, you can't. PART of the playback quality is in the storage medium, and the other part is in the playback equipment. But I contend that it takes $10,000 of analog playback equipment to equal the quality of $1,000 of digital equipment. Note that the statement I just made doesn't address the quality of the source media. Not all records sound equally good. Not all digital files sound equally good, either (even if they're "bit perfect replicas"). We're still learning about digital reproduction (and the ways that our ears interpret it). Boom What you’ve written here makes me think of the accolades lovers of records aspire towards. (The “warmth” of vinyl records, etc.) Over the past decade, I’ve experienced lossless audio on Blu-ray that exceeds by far any of that description. |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Mar 17, 2022 11:37:22 GMT -5
smaller 45 rpm "singles" came out about a year after LPs. Remember the little plastic clip you had to snap into the middle of a 45 to play it on a "record player"? Yes I do, but I had an older record player that actually had a 45 rpm spindle adapter! |
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Post by ÈlTwo on Mar 17, 2022 11:46:35 GMT -5
Nevertheless, vinyl is in its final death throes. In another decade, you won't be able to buy a new vinyl record (or a new turntable to play it on). In the meantime, really good digital continues to be less and less expensive. Sic transit gloria mundi. Boom That prediction was made in 1986 The Vinyl Days. You're forgetting two things: niche market and profit. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2022 12:49:02 GMT -5
That prediction was made in 1986 The Vinyl Days. You're forgetting two things: niche market and profit. And you're forgetting two things: the short life of fads, and the financial influence of the global market. Vinyl is currently a fad. Once it dies this next time, it probably won't arise again (and good riddance, so far as I'm concerned). The growth of streaming makes it highly unlikely that ANY new music will continue to be released on any physical media (What's a "CD," grandpa?"). |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 17, 2022 13:28:44 GMT -5
That prediction was made in 1986 The Vinyl Days. You're forgetting two things: niche market and profit. And you're forgetting two things: the short life of fads, and the financial influence of the global market. Vinyl is currently a fad. Once it dies this next time, it probably won't arise again (and good riddance, so far as I'm concerned). The growth of streaming makes it highly unlikely that ANY new music will continue to be released on any physical media (What's a "CD," grandpa?"). If we don’t continue to support the manufacturing of physical media we (and those after us) will pay a monthly fee indefinitely! (where? Grandpa, is your CDs and vinyl? Where? |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 17, 2022 14:38:41 GMT -5
Well... You ALREADY pay a periodic fee (forever) for:
Cable TV service
Telephone service
Internet service
Auto registration
Home insurance
Auto insurance
Amazon
Property tax
Income tax
Sales tax
Etc. etc. etc.
Just sayin'
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 14:41:11 GMT -5
Remember the little plastic clip you had to snap into the middle of a 45 to play it on a "record player"? Yes I do, but I had an older record player that actually had a 45 rpm spindle adapter! LOL YES (I remember that) …. The 45 adapter showed itself in a number of different ways. The adapter was mostly for playing multiple 45’s stacked. Some methods for changing speeds were also “novel.” The last table (long gone) I owned had a 2 piece platter and a belt drive with a dual diameter pulley. One position for 33 1/3 and the latter for 45rpms. (what a bother!) We had also, a Bogen “Presto” that was infinitely adjustable between 16 and 78 rpm….. (A prelude to Nissan’s CVT transmission perhaps 🤔 LOL.) That was a musician’s turntable, able to tune the recording (or vice versa) to play alongside a recording without being “sharp” or “flat”. |
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 14:50:15 GMT -5
And you're forgetting two things: the short life of fads, and the financial influence of the global market. Vinyl is currently a fad. Once it dies this next time, it probably won't arise again (and good riddance, so far as I'm concerned). The growth of streaming makes it highly unlikely that ANY new music will continue to be released on any physical media (What's a "CD," grandpa?"). If we don’t continue to support the manufacturing of physical media we (and those after us) will pay a monthly fee indefinitely! (where? Grandpa, is your CDs and vinyl? Where? At present I find the owning/streaming mix to be just fine. At my age, the next thing I see regarding that is not caring one way or the other.  |
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Post by audiobill on Mar 17, 2022 15:03:44 GMT -5
Great close up, 405!
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 15:10:48 GMT -5
Thanks… my dentures had just fallen into the garbage disposal |
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Post by novisnick on Mar 17, 2022 15:36:32 GMT -5
Well... You ALREADY pay a periodic fee (forever) for: Cable TV service Telephone service Internet service Auto registration Home insurance Auto insurance Amazon Property tax Income tax Sales tax Etc. etc. etc. Just sayin' |
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Post by jbrunwa on Mar 17, 2022 15:41:01 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs
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