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Post by 405x5 on Mar 17, 2022 16:46:01 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs That’s a tough one (you left teaching out) which is revenue for many educated players. Over the last 20 years or so I went looking for those artists myself, on a mission to discover greatness new to me and refreshing. I hit pay dirt with quite a few that I got lost in. |
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Post by rbk123 on Mar 17, 2022 19:49:39 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs This. I'd rather support independent artists than corporate streamers. |
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Post by 26gary26 on Mar 17, 2022 20:18:29 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs Thats why ticket prices form live gigs and especially concerts. Adele's live concerts tickets for her Las Vegas tenure start at $2,015.00. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 18, 2022 8:25:00 GMT -5
If Adele were sitting on my lap while singing, I still wouldn't pay $2,015! But apparently others will...
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Post by 405x5 on Mar 18, 2022 9:13:33 GMT -5
If Adele were sitting on my lap while singing, I still wouldn't pay $2,015! But apparently others will... LOL! Well, either way, the OP is skewing the revenue difference between a big draw Vegas act and the plight of the largely unknown independent artists. |
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Post by Boomzilla on Mar 20, 2022 10:28:41 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists... The record companies didn't? |
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Post by bonscott on Mar 20, 2022 10:53:02 GMT -5
Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs Streaming does not screw all artists. In fact some make more because of it. If it wasn’t for streaming a lot of artists would be making zero. The days of the majority of artists selling millions of copies of anything is over. Do you ever hear major artists complain about streaming. No. Because they are making alot of money from it. Sure mainly unknown ones are not getting paid much from it. No different then not selling alot of albums. Bottom line Reach a wider audience. Get more streams. Get paid more. No streaming service is going pay a lot for someone nobody has ever heard of. |
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Post by housetech on Mar 21, 2022 15:35:36 GMT -5
My bucket list contains a concert @ Red Rock Amphitheater, so to surprise my wife, started planning a trip there to see the Tedeschi Trucks Band until I saw ticket prices for good seats- OMG. I could buy a XMC-2, RMC for the same price and stay home. $450/seat seems to be a "do-able" seat location... then add hotel and price of gas @ $5/gal. There is no inflation, oh no, not at all. I may just fly to the Bahamas or Virgin Islands, get drunk and listen to kettle drums on the beach, it would be cheaper.
btw- I saw Dave Mason seats 1 & 2, first row for <$7 each but $1000 each for Tedeschi Trucks Band today
Back to Long Play records and reel to reel tapes, did both. I always recorded a new LP on cassette and 10" R-R tapes and they sounded very good, but not as good a recording a concert right off the mixing board with a R-R. Those were fun days.
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Post by zoomer67 on Mar 21, 2022 16:54:15 GMT -5
I did the same thing as Housetech when I was younger--all records were immediately recorded onto high bias cassettes. All of my old LPs are still like new.My dad had a very nice Dual direct drive TT with a good Shure cartridge back in those days. I like vinyl records, though it is a bit of pain to keep them clean.
My Blu-ray player actually plays CDs really well and I usually play recordings with it most of the time nowadays. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 22, 2022 8:15:10 GMT -5
Housetch, I went to grad school in Denver and got to see a couple in Red Rock. Best was Yes. They wired the place in surround sound, and about 4 times in the concert sent notes flying around the space. Sorry to say it was magical. Hope you pull it off.
Trey
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Post by housetech on Mar 23, 2022 10:42:31 GMT -5
Housetch, I went to grad school in Denver and got to see a couple in Red Rock. Best was Yes. They wired the place in surround sound, and about 4 times in the concert sent notes flying around the space. Sorry to say it was magical. Hope you pull it off. Trey Trey, you tease me, lol. Yes was one of my fav bands back then. They had roadies/sound techs that did good set ups & sound tests before the concert, so I sure it was magical and you enjoyed it. The beauty of the Colorado mountains, mile high sky at night and a good show would be a great experience for my wife. She's been to Denver on business but never got to experience the Rocky Mountains. Maybe using a local travel agent can find me a package deal with a better price. Any Denver local Loungers know one?Blossom Music Center amphitheater in Cuyahoga Falls, OH was not far from where I grew up, so I caught the open air venue bug early. We went back years later, saw Al Jarreau & Yanni and she thoroughly enjoyed it. |
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Post by drtrey3 on Mar 24, 2022 11:47:32 GMT -5
I also saw Meat Puppets open for Stone Temple Pilots there. I was not a STP fan so left after the Puppets. They opened with their song Sam which has very, very fast tempo and lyrics. Things got intense after that song!
Trey
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Mar 24, 2022 16:59:07 GMT -5
The other thing you need to put into perspective is that the money has to come from somewhere. What you also need to understand is that, while a LOT of people listen to streaming music, each one pays very little per song they listen to.
Figure out how many songs you listen to for your $10 or $20 monthly subscription - if you even have a paid premium subscription. So, unless you're spending more on streaming music than you used to spend on CDs or records, there is LESS money going into the music industry... Also remember that a lot of the music on many streaming services is older music that has been "purchased outright" from a studio that "owns the rights"... often after buying those rights outright from the artist. (Regardless of whether any of that money makes it to the original artists as "residuals" that is money that is not going to be distributed amongst new artists.)
Also remember that, in the past, artists were rarely if ever paid anything for having their music played on the radio... so that hasn't changed...
And, while they no longer need to press and distribute discs, the streaming companies do have a major investment in computer server architecture and maintenance...
Then remember that a major proportion of the streaming company's overhead is fixed - for things like servers and hardware maintenance. So, they may eventually make a lot of profit, but only AFTER they cross the break-even point for that investment. I haven't kept track of the situation with audio streaming companies... but I do read the journals about video companies... and many are not "getting rich".
For example, even though they've been one of the top streaming services for years, and also a top volume production studio, until a year or so ago Netflix consistently LOST money every quarter.
Back in the days of vinyl it was said that very few artists made much money on their first album. The record companies spent a lot of money promoting new artists - and so were gambling that a given artist would be popular. So, depending on the contract, they contracted to pay artists very little for up to the first three albums. Then, if those first albums were successful, the artist was able to negotiate a very favorable contract for future albums. (And, obviously, artists who "only had one or two great albums in them" didn't fare very well at all monetarily.) With streaming, as I understand it, the payout isn't very much "per play", but is more directly tied to actual "plays sold"... which is arguably actually more fair.
According to one article, in 2018 or 2019 I believe, one incredibly popular song was streamed 400 million times... And, if the artist received one paltry cent per play, that would be four million dollars.
So, yes, it is possible for a wildly popular artist to make a lot of money... And then, of course, there are concert appearances, and the MERCH (merchandise). And, if you REALLY want to support your favorite artist, there's probably someplace you can donate money directly to them... Or buy one of those cool, but really expensive, T-shirts on their website... Or buy a personal ticket to their next "exclusive live stream performance"...
Or even go see them in concert... My favorite band, Within Temptation, did a spectacular "online virtual reality event".... in full 4k.... and it was gorgeous....
And now they're touring.... And, yes, they're available on "most major streaming services"... And, yes, they still sell CDs, and DVDs, and even some vinyl...
I'll bet they made a few bucks last year... Since streaming music screws the artists, a lot of independent artists don’t put their music on streaming services, as they can only really get paid for live gigs, selling vinyl and CDs Streaming does not screw all artists. In fact some make more because of it. If it wasn’t for streaming a lot of artists would be making zero. The days of the majority of artists selling millions of copies of anything is over. Do you ever hear major artists complain about streaming. No. Because they are making alot of money from it. Sure mainly unknown ones are not getting paid much from it. No different then not selling alot of albums. Bottom line Reach a wider audience. Get more streams. Get paid more. No streaming service is going pay a lot for someone nobody has ever heard of. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 16, 2023 10:21:03 GMT -5
That prediction was made in 1986 The Vinyl Days. You're forgetting two things: niche market and profit. And you're forgetting two things: the short life of fads, and the financial influence of the global market. Vinyl is currently a fad. Once it dies this next time, it probably won't arise again (and good riddance, so far as I'm concerned). The growth of streaming makes it highly unlikely that ANY new music will continue to be released on any physical media (What's a "CD," grandpa?"). It's a long running fad and has been growing for a decade +. www.theverge.com/2023/3/10/23633605/vinyl-records-surpasses-cd-music-sales-us-riaawww.billboard.com/pro/new-vinyl-record-pressing-plants-tennessee/ I can't predict the future, but with the amount of new turn tables that have come out lately, it sure doesn't seem to be going away any time soon. While digital is the most convenient and has a floor noise that can't be heard, streaming services suffer from loosing rights to music they once had. Tracks can randomly be grayed out without notice. Poof, they are just gone. Digital also suffers from the loudness wars. Mostly in mainstream music, but that is still a LOT of music. Regarding vinyl, I'm really picky about what I buy on vinyl and I don't have a overly impressive collection, and I think it's silly to to say buy dubstep (or any crazy dynamic music) on vinyl, but a lot of smaller bands and smaller pressing runs are only available on vinyl records. I don't think the people who buy the limited and short run pressings are just going to throw their turn tables and music away in the future. I personally don't do this, but I'm pretty sure some people buy vinyl records just to collect something unique and have the full art cover and insert. Especially some of the limited color vinyl. It's seen as art. |
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Post by KeithL on Oct 16, 2023 11:51:17 GMT -5
I've got to add a bit of an update here...
Recently I've seen a few songs from artists I really like that are ONLY released on streaming services...
(And quite a few seem to release individual songs on streaming services long before they release the entire new album.)
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 16, 2023 15:18:15 GMT -5
I've got to add a bit of an update here... Recently I've seen a few songs from artists I really like that are ONLY released on streaming services... (And quite a few seem to release individual songs on streaming services long before they release the entire new album.) So from above, I’m interested in listening to your ‘favorite band’ — Within Temptation. I will be streaming on Apple Music and there I see albums going back to 2011, a 35 song ‘Essentials’ playlist, and even some music videos. Their latest release, Ritual (and possibly others) has an Atmos mix I could choose as well. Do you have a recommendation on where to start?    |
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Post by tropicallutefisk on Oct 17, 2023 16:00:34 GMT -5
I have no desire to start a vinyl collection, invest in a turntable set up and deal with cleaning vinyl. I’m not a hater. It’s just not appealing to me. I’m honestly quite happy streaming music. I’m pleased with the sound and I love the huge library and convenience. Now, when it comes to TV and movies, I think physical discs are still far superior. Any movie I truly love I buy the uhd disc.
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Post by Deleted on Oct 17, 2023 16:56:27 GMT -5
I have no desire to start a vinyl collection, invest in a turntable set up and deal with cleaning vinyl. I’m not a hater. It’s just not appealing to me. I’m honestly quite happy streaming music. I’m pleased with the sound and I love the huge library and convenience. Now, when it comes to TV and movies, I think physical discs are still far superior. Any movie I truly love I buy the uhd disc. Like anything in life, you have to have a strong desire and want to do something to be good at or have a chance of learning something very well. I would say that would include turntable setup and the cleaning required. A few years ago my nice messaged me about getting a CD player. I was like, oh. Do you have a nice CD collection left over? She didn't own a single one. I was like, no point in starting now. Interesting about streaming. Years ago before 4K, I thought the compression was worst than physical disk, but with 4K HDR and Dolby vision, it all looks great. I'm not a videophile either. Other than setting the TV brightness to movie and turning off all the enhancements, I'm a happy camper. My philosophy on movie sound quality and music quality playback is completely different as well, so not really related to the history of possible good vinyl pressings that exist. |
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Post by Deleted on Oct 18, 2023 21:03:10 GMT -5
A bit of anecdote experience with vinyl. I have 2. In the mid 90s my friend's grandmother (yes I know that is weird) had a hifi system. I don't know all the details, but the receiver was a Harmon Kardon, and the turn table was a Dual. I only know this because my friend still has it. Anyway, I was able to listen to a near virgin copy of Star Wars on Vinyl. I was surprised that it didn't have cracks and pops, but sounded like Wonderfull music. I kind of put that in the memory bank, but didn't think much of it.
In the early 2000's I was at a museum happy hour. I started with desert and was jamming to music with a DJ with a PA system. After a while, I went to the bar for a single drink ( I was driving) and while I passed the DJ, he was spinning vinyl records. I had no ideal, but I never heard a pop crack or anything. He must have kept his records CLEAN!. Either way, that was what started me in my vinyl journey.
I find it odd that some people have night and day experiences. Some find it garbage and others like it. It goes against general audio experiences where differences should be minor at most. I'm confused how people could have such different views on vinyl records.
Either way, that hifi system got me started on my current path.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Oct 18, 2023 22:11:17 GMT -5
… I find it odd that some people have night and day experiences. Some find it garbage and others like it. It goes against general audio experiences where differences should be minor at most. I'm confused how people could have such different views on vinyl records. … It’s just another nuance of the audiophile world, I think what’s somewhat unique is that it’s a topic people feel the need to; explain or justify their position, or promote or condemn the format. Just today on an another page, someone posted that the LP he bought of that artist’s new release would be his last, he was tired of getting out of his beanbag chair to flip the album over. I felt the need to post my position on LPs, I waxed a bit about it, and … well here, might as well quote myself … ” I still listen to vinyl and have a fairly large collection, but I haven’t bought any new LPs in decades (though now and then people do give me stuff). Too much of my listening is done away from my main system; car, buds, ski helmet, studio, outdoor speakers, etc. I do buy CDs for music I like, wanting to support the artist and see/read the packaging.
That said, there is a long loved quality and enjoyment of listening to vinyl on my two channel system. Each time I put on an album, there is a feeling the music imparts, and I’m engaged in a way that seems unique to LPs and the analog signal path. It’s not one or the other, it’s just about the music.” |
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