Roon and Apple

[klinemj]

Oct 21, 2019 14:25:41 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

I'm off to battle the vagaries of Windows/jRiver this afternoon. I don't necessarily expect any easy road there either. But it is what it is.

Good luck with that...jRiver is a mess, IMHO.

Did you try what Casey found?

Mark

[Boomzilla]

Hi Mark -

No, I didn't. I have an audio amigo here who is the world's biggest jRiver fan. He's been after me for at least a year now to try JR again. He promises to help me optimize it, and based on what I hear in his system, I think he may be onto something. So I'm going to invest a few months, at least, playing with jRiver again. The only reason I left it to begin with was its flakey DLNA streaming over Ethernet. Since the server computer will now be on the equipment rack with the rest of my components, and connected via USB, that issue won't be troubling me again.

If I find, down the road, that jRiver isn't doing what I think it should, I'm not opposed to giving Roon a try again - just not on a Mac...

In fact, there's a high probability that I may just buy a low-profile, fanless Windows or Linux box for the living room, eventually. If I build it myself, I can just put a ginormous internal HDD and get away from external USB drives entirely. Features I'd want:

At least 8 GB RAM
At least a 4 TB internal drive with a SSD buffer
A built in CD reader
Ability to run headless
Ability to use a bluetooth keyboard/trackpad combo
HDMI output for when I need to use the TV as a monitor
WiFi for updates & metadata when ripping (Ethernet is OK too)
High quality USB port for audio out

I value your opinions, and if you have any pertinent to these plans (other than skipping the jRiver experiment), I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks - Glenn

[klinemj]

Oct 21, 2019 16:25:10 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Hi Mark -

No, I didn't. I have an audio amigo here who is the world's biggest jRiver fan. He's been after me for at least a year now to try JR again. He promises to help me optimize it, and based on what I hear in his system, I think he may be onto something. So I'm going to invest a few months, at least, playing with jRiver again. The only reason I left it to begin with was its flakey DLNA streaming over Ethernet. Since the server computer will now be on the equipment rack with the rest of my components, and connected via USB, that issue won't be troubling me again.

If I find, down the road, that jRiver isn't doing what I think it should, I'm not opposed to giving Roon a try again - just not on a Mac...

In fact, there's a high probability that I may just buy a low-profile, fanless Windows or Linux box for the living room, eventually. If I build it myself, I can just put a ginormous internal HDD and get away from external USB drives entirely. Features I'd want:

At least 8 GB RAM
At least a 4 TB internal drive with a SSD buffer
A built in CD reader
Ability to run headless
Ability to use a bluetooth keyboard/trackpad combo
HDMI output for when I need to use the TV as a monitor
WiFi for updates & metadata when ripping (Ethernet is OK too)
High quality USB port for audio out

I value your opinions, and if you have any pertinent to these plans (other than skipping the jRiver experiment), I'd be happy to hear them.

Thanks - Glenn

Good luck with jRiver. I've given up on them, but I do look forward to your learning with your audio amigo friend.

If you end up getting a new Windows or Linux box, check microcenter. They have some great deals - especially on refurbs or their own brand (Powerspec). If you go Windows, get Windows 10 Pro. That allows remote control from other Windows devices. I was using my Surface to control jRiver on a W10Pro PC, and that works great.

And...why bluetooth keyboard/trackpad? Logitech makes plenty of wireless options that don't use bluetooth. I used on for my HTPC.

Mark

[Boomzilla]

Hi Mark - the only reason I wanted bluetooth is because I already have several Bluetooth keyboards with trackpads in the closet. Thanks for the recommendation on Microcenter - I'll check them out!

Glenn

[klinemj]

Oct 21, 2019 21:51:05 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

Hi Mark - the only reason I wanted bluetooth is because I already have several Bluetooth keyboards with trackpads in the closet. Thanks for the recommendation on Microcenter - I'll check them out!

Glenn

So...how big is this closet of yours? You keep saying things about what's in there. Is it kind of like the bottle on "I Dream of Jeannie"? And welcome to the world of microcenter...-->CLICK HERE AND BUY LOTS OF STUFF<---

Mark

[Boomzilla]

The problem with the closet is that it IS expandable, and we're trying to clear out this house so we can down-size. And I'm a sucker for a bargain. A prime example is this past weekend's pair of DCM Time Frame speakers for $10 the pair. I need them like a hole in the head, but for that price...

[wilburthegoose]

BTW - you can live with a lower powered CPU, but get as much memory as possible.

[Boomzilla]

Thanks wilburthegoose - I didn't know that.

[Boomzilla]

klinemj -

A question, please - I see that all the PCs in compact format sold by Microcenter seem to be configured with minimum RAM and HDD for low-price appeal. Would I be better to buy such a machine and update the HDD & RAM myself, or should I search for a machine pre-configured to what I want?

Thanks - Boom

PS - I've asked a local shop for a price on a properly-configured server, but I expect they'll be at least 2x the price that I can find online. If they surprise me, then I'll just buy local.

[brubacca]

Boomzilla,

I'm confused. You are looking to build a PC for JRiver, but you wouldn't do the same for your Roon installation? From what I remember of JRiver, Roon gives a much more immersive experience. I love the information presented on the Artists, Albums.. Roon Radio which continues after a playlist is lots of fun.

Sorry, just thinking that you can build a simple Roon Rock server and wouldn't have the apple issues...

[klinemj]

Oct 21, 2019 22:07:13 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

The problem with the closet is that it IS expandable, and we're trying to clear out this house so we can down-size. And I'm a sucker for a bargain. A prime example is this past weekend's pair of DCM Time Frame speakers for $10 the pair. I need them like a hole in the head, but for that price...

The bolded part has been well-proven. Are you SURE you are not my Uncle Hugh in disguise?

Mark

[klinemj]

Oct 22, 2019 7:55:15 GMT -5 wilburthegoose said:

BTW - you can live with a lower powered CPU, but get as much memory as possible.

Some on Computer Audiophile disagree re. the CPU, but I've never seen a good technical argument for why.

Mark

[Loop 7]

I know I'm a broken record but I really think frustrated Roon users can make their lives easier if they just migrate to R.O.C.K. It's just so foolproof.

[mountain]

Oct 22, 2019 15:31:14 GMT -5 Loop 7 said:

I know I'm a broken record but I really think frustrated Roon users can make their lives easier if they just migrate to R.O.C.K. It's just so foolproof.

  I use Roon, physically on an older but dedicated iMac pro.  Connected via usb to Oppo 105 . Analog out to Emotiva umc-200, etc.  I think this setup sounds fine and I have no issues.  I just stream from Tidal hi fi tier, Mqa included.  I do not copy my discs etc. to hard drive.  Very happy I with both endpoints, going to add another more capable one.  I am interested in the advantages of migrating to rock, but I’m not a frustrated user.  It just seems that a lot of current products for streaming are expensive and in my estimation more of a lateral move just for something different.  Your input is appreciated.

[Boomzilla]

So - after remembering how to configure jRiver, I got it up and running this afternoon on my Win-10 laptop, and connected with jRemote on the iPad. Sounds slightly brighter than Roon initially, but smooths out as the gear warms up.

[KeithL]

The short answer is that it shouldn't make much difference.

I would check the price; to me, it's worth $25 or $50 extra to have the vendor install it, but probably not more...

It's just one less thing to worry about.

However... a few words of advice if you add it yourself...

- Purchase memory from a reputable vendor, who is willing to look up which specific ones will work with your machine, and take them back if they get it wrong
   (You should be able to just look up and buy the one recommended for your computer... but there are still occasionally compatibility issues.)

- While memory is cheap, be aware that your motherboard has a limited number of sockets, and some have specific restrictions about what sizes and speeds you can mix.

   (For example, if you buy a board with 4 slots and 4 gB of memory, if it has 4 x 1 gB sticks, you'll have to evict a few to make room for more; but, if it has one 4 gB stick and three empty slots, then you won't.)

   (Also be aware that some motherboards have specific restrictions about mixing and matching different sizes or speeds..... these days most do not but it's worth checking.)

Also note that Black Friday is just around the corner... and both Dell and other online vendors offer excellent deals.

(And, generally, small local stores just cannot beat their low-ball prices. Also note that, from some big vendors like Dell, you can buy online, but get on-site service as part of the deal.)

The reality is that, by today's standards, you don't need an especially high-end machine, and so it shouldn't cost you much.

(You absolutely don't need a fancy graphics card... but get at least a small SSD so it boots quickly... )

Also note that, while laptops have come way down in price, if you have the space, a desktop machine will probably cost less, and last longer...

(And they're a lot easier to upgrade when you want to add a second hard drive or more memory.)

Oct 22, 2019 11:38:11 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

klinemj -

A question, please - I see that all the PCs in compact format sold by Microcenter seem to be configured with minimum RAM and HDD for low-price appeal. Would I be better to buy such a machine and update the HDD & RAM myself, or should I search for a machine pre-configured to what I want?

Thanks - Boom

PS - I've asked a local shop for a price on a properly-configured server, but I expect they'll be at least 2x the price that I can find online. If they surprise me, then I'll just buy local.

[Boomzilla]

Thanks, KeithL -

You're right - a laptop won't have room for two drives and it will also be far more restricted on memory options. And I HAD forgotten about black Friday - it normally isn't of interest to me.

Boom

[klinemj]

Oct 22, 2019 11:38:11 GMT -5 Boomzilla said:

klinemj -

A question, please - I see that all the PCs in compact format sold by Microcenter seem to be configured with minimum RAM and HDD for low-price appeal. Would I be better to buy such a machine and update the HDD & RAM myself, or should I search for a machine pre-configured to what I want?

Thanks - Boom

PS - I've asked a local shop for a price on a properly-configured server, but I expect they'll be at least 2x the price that I can find online. If they surprise me, then I'll just buy local.

Agree with Keith, and a build...Microcenter sells all the parts you need to build your own machine if you really want to. I've done it myself through them and they are very helpful in choosing parts needed, but frankly - their refurbished PC can be a great deal. I just got an I5 with Windows Pro and 8 GB of RAM, and that's more than I would need for dedicated PC for music. It's got a total of 10 USB ports with over half being USB 3.0, and it's got 2 HDMI outs + 1 VGA.

For me, I'm not a big fan of having a huge HD inside the box. I just bought a refurb and its only got a 250 GB internal SSD drive and its only used for OS and whatever software I download - no data. I have a USB 3.0 (Western Digital) external drive for storage and that's connected to my router so all my PC's can get to it. I do have another connected to the refurb, but that is only used as a backup.

Mark

[Casey Leedom]

And always remember that if you mix random Memory DIMMs, that's a very low-performance configuration with regard to Memory Latency and Bandwidth. The BIOS won't be able to Interleave the Memory, etc. You're best off buying all DIMs of exactly the same kind.

Casey

[Boomzilla]

Hi klinemj -

I can understand your "internal high speed SSD for programs + external HDD for storage" theory, but I still favor a big internal for the following reasons:

1. Big drives now come with enough SSD buffer that the OS & programs would probably be in that section anyway
2. When placing this on the living room shelving, the internal drive requires one less AC plug, one less USB port, and less messy wiring