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Post by vikingqc on Jan 13, 2020 19:35:58 GMT -5
Hello, I have an XPA-11 Gen 3 (connected to an RMC-1), I noted in the operating manual (yes, I read it!), It is mentioned [for the absolute best possible performance when testing, we recommend operating the XPA Gen3 from a 230 VAC line.] and next to the specification of the “stereo” cards [65 watts RMS per channel; THD <0.1%; into 8 Ohms (120 VAC line)] what does that mean exactly? Would the specifications be different if the power supply would be 230v instead of 120v?
Currently I have several dedicated circuits for my sound system, including one for my amplifier (another for the processor, another for the sub and another for the TV and other accessories). In addition each of these circuits are wired in 12AVG with less than 50 'of the electrical panel, in short electrically I have some reserve.
My question: would I gain in sound quality if I change my 120v power supply for a new 230v circuit?
I have read "posts" on this forum which talk about the difference in current if it is 120v vs 230v connected. This is not my question. My breaker hasn't jumped either, my question is only about the sound quality. My local Emotiva representative told me that I would gain a “headroom” if I connected to 230v. Is it true ? And what does that mean?
I am sastifait of my amp, but my insecure side tells me that I am a little limit. I have 11 speakers plugged in, I'm not worried about my surround, ceiling or center speakers, but more about my front speakers.
In direct mode or other 2-channel mode, my speakers are fully alive and dynamic, however in the other modes, I have the impression that they lack life (can be a little). Well, it may be me the problem ...
My front speakers are Focal 936, it is recommended to have a power between 50 and 300w, but is this sufficient in the use of my XPA-11?
In my case, it is relatively easy for me to bring a new dedicated 220v circuit for my amplifier, but ...
- is there a real advantage in my situation?
- would my amplifier be more happy? If it can be
- Should I go get an XPA-DR2 for my front speakers? In an ideal world yes, but ... would I totally exaggerate and would I hear a difference at the same volume?
For information, I like to listen to my music in 2.1 (I love bass!), But my system is also used to listen to movies ... in 7.1.4.
In fact, since I got my Emotiva amplifier and processor, I have more and more enjoyed listening to my music in 2.1. I like my processor which allows me to change the vocation of my sound system in one click!
Another question ... a last ... when I listen in 2.1 (or 2.0) mode the available power is 300w, 200w or other? I have read that there is a common overall power, but is it the same if I am in 2.0 mode with my XPA-11 or if I would have an XPA-2?
Thanks in advance
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Post by martindktm on Jan 14, 2020 0:18:57 GMT -5
Is the 230v rating is at 50 or 60Hz...Our 230 v in north America is at 60Hz and for Europe and elsewhere is often 50Hz.. I wouls ask Emotiva first...
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Post by garbulky on Jan 14, 2020 0:57:54 GMT -5
So....you should know that at most times you are listening to about 1 watt or less of power from the amplifier. Sometimes it may get crazy and jump to 10 watts. When I had access to a meter at a friends house we couldn't get the (Mcintosh) meter to go past 2 watts of power even when we cranked it. I've also listened to tube amplifiers that may have had seven watts a channel and it still filled the room.
(Yes, I use 1000 watts per channel XPA-1 gen 2 monoblocks and it is the best amp I've heard...but that 7 watt tube amplifier sounded really close!) So hope that helps! It's not necessarily about the watts. It's about what you think about the sound.
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Post by ceptorman on Jan 14, 2020 3:59:35 GMT -5
220, 221, whatever it takes  (sorry....couldn't resist) |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 14, 2020 6:33:14 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions.
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Post by Gary Cook on Jan 14, 2020 13:59:27 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions. Is there something different with the 220/240 volts in the US? Pretty much all of the rest of the world is default 220/240 volts, it’s mainly the US and Canada that’s only 110 volts. Everything here in Australia is 220/240 volts and I’ve never seen any statistics that says 110 volts is safer. As my uncle told me a long time ago, it’s the amps that will kill you not the volts. Back to the thread, I have absolutely no doubt that you would benefit from a “better” power amp for your FL and FR when listening to stereo 2.1 music. Preferably a pair of quad differential mono blocks for a number of reasons. But it’s not going to be night and day, from memory with 2 of the high power channels driven the XPA-11 is capable of 300 watts per channel so there’s no lack of grunt. In regards to 110 versus 220/240, the XPA-11 at 65 x 8 plus 300 x 3 is 1420 watts in total. That’s output, I don’t know the efficiency of the SMPS to calculate the input watts but that’s getting too close to the limit of a 110 volt circuit for my liking. Again it’s not going to be night and day but I’d be swapping to a 220/240 volt circuit. Then there’s no doubt that you are getting the best the XPA-11 can deliver. Emotiva didn’t put the note there for no reason. Not that it’s all that important but processors don’t need a lot of watts, so having the RMC-1 on it’s own circuit is a big overkill. Cheers Gary |
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Post by mgbpuff on Jan 14, 2020 15:10:50 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions. Is there something different with the 220/240 volts in the US? Pretty much all of the rest of the world is default 220/240 volts, it’s mainly the US and Canada that’s only 110 volts. Everything here in Australia is 220/240 volts and I’ve never seen any statistics that says 110 volts is safer. As my uncle told me a long time ago, it’s the amps that will kill you not the volts. Back to the thread, I have absolutely no doubt that you would benefit from a “better” power amp for your FL and FR when listening to stereo 2.1 music. Preferably a pair of quad differential mono blocks for a number of reasons. But it’s not going to be night and day, from memory with 2 of the high power channels driven the XPA-11 is capable of 300 watts per channel so there’s no lack of grunt. In regards to 110 versus 220/240, the XPA-11 at 65 x 8 plus 300 x 3 is 1420 watts in total. That’s output, I don’t know the efficiency of the SMPS to calculate the input watts but that’s getting too close to the limit of a 110 volt circuit for my liking. Again it’s not going to be night and day but I’d be swapping to a 220/240 volt circuit. Then there’s no doubt that you are getting the best the XPA-11 can deliver. Emotiva didn’t put the note there for no reason. Not that it’s all that important but processors don’t need a lot of watts, so having the RMC-1 on it’s own circuit is a big overkill. Cheers Gary True, damage to a human is the result of current. However, higher voltages break down skin insulation easier than lower voltages and then the current flow begins. If the skin insulation is broken, one can be hurt or even killed by 12vdc or even 6vdc as in car batteries. Americans are used to knowing that general purpose receptacles are 120 volt and general purpose electrical appliances in the U.S. are designed for that voltage. Safety is knowledge of the standards in a given country. |
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Post by vikingqc on Jan 14, 2020 18:05:26 GMT -5
Is the 230v rating is at 50 or 60Hz...Our 230 v in north America is at 60Hz and for Europe and elsewhere is often 50Hz.. I wouls ask Emotiva first... Hi, I'm in Quebec (Canada) here I have available the 120v or 240v @ 60Hz @ 60Hz. |
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Post by martindktm on Jan 14, 2020 18:24:03 GMT -5
Is the 230v rating is at 50 or 60Hz...Our 230 v in north America is at 60Hz and for Europe and elsewhere is often 50Hz.. I wouls ask Emotiva first... Hi, I'm in Quebec (Canada) here I have available the 120v or 240v @ 60Hz @ 60Hz.
I'm in Quebec too. I think companys tell they cant doo both voltage because they don't have to make different model setup. A single and same unit can be sold in Europe and America. But the europe Hz is 50. Not as we have here at 60Hz at closely the same voltage. I would ask Keith on the forum or Call Québec Accoustique. The are the Emotiva distributor for the Canada.
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Post by vikingqc on Jan 14, 2020 18:37:37 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions. Is there something different with the 220/240 volts in the US? Pretty much all of the rest of the world is default 220/240 volts, it’s mainly the US and Canada that’s only 110 volts. Everything here in Australia is 220/240 volts and I’ve never seen any statistics that says 110 volts is safer. As my uncle told me a long time ago, it’s the amps that will kill you not the volts. Back to the thread, I have absolutely no doubt that you would benefit from a “better” power amp for your FL and FR when listening to stereo 2.1 music. Preferably a pair of quad differential mono blocks for a number of reasons. But it’s not going to be night and day, from memory with 2 of the high power channels driven the XPA-11 is capable of 300 watts per channel so there’s no lack of grunt. In regards to 110 versus 220/240, the XPA-11 at 65 x 8 plus 300 x 3 is 1420 watts in total. That’s output, I don’t know the efficiency of the SMPS to calculate the input watts but that’s getting too close to the limit of a 110 volt circuit for my liking. Again it’s not going to be night and day but I’d be swapping to a 220/240 volt circuit. Then there’s no doubt that you are getting the best the XPA-11 can deliver. Emotiva didn’t put the note there for no reason. Not that it’s all that important but processors don’t need a lot of watts, so having the RMC-1 on it’s own circuit is a big overkill. Cheers Gary A big thank you, I think I will install a new 220v socket for my amplifier. Do not be worried about the socket, I do not know if it is the electric code is identical in Canada than in the United States I believe that for the residential part it is very similar, but I intend well that my electrical installation is according to the standard and "electrical code" here for those interested the types of electrical outlet according to voltages and currents ...  for the dedicated electrical outlet for the processor, I know that it is not necessary, but when I redid the fillage of this sector of the house, I put more than my needs for future needs. |
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Post by wyliec2 on Feb 28, 2020 12:32:53 GMT -5
Interesting topic - I have wired dedicated theater rooms in my last two homes with multiple, dedicated 120v/20amp circuits for amps/subwoofers. I have added 240v circuits for other purposes but not for amps...
I haven't seen discussion of the wiring to the existing 120v outlet...normally this would be two insulated conductors(hot & neutral) + ground. Standard 240v wiring is three insulated conductors (2 hots & neutral) + ground.
Each hot conductor to neutral is 120v and voltage across the two hots is 240v. If the existing wiring from panel to outlet is 3+ground you're good to go. If not, it isn't clear if new wiring is to be ran??
There are select cases where 240v can be ran on 2+ground wiring (using the white neutral as a hot) with the circuit not having a neutral - these are often direct wired heating applications where no neutral is needed. In many applications the neutral is required. It may be the amp doesn't need a neutral if using a 2+ground cord. Another question is whether the outlet will be to code without a neutral....
No clear answer on benefit of 240v vs 120v for amp operation. I know that for heating (high amperage) applications, for equal wattage output, 240v is claimed to be more efficient than 120v due to reduced current and current loss.
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Feb 28, 2020 15:33:36 GMT -5
240v will draw 1/2 the amps from the supply for a given wattage. Less concern about wiring distance feeding your equipment. Overall 220v will be a lower loss supply for your equipment and will deliver a higher level of wattage. (double!).
P.S. less than 50 Vdc is very unlikely to disrupt heart rhythm or cause any flesh burning. The typical human body is 1500 ohms from hand to hand limiting the current in your body. It takes 50V or more to disrupt electrical control of your cardio system.
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Post by SteveH on Feb 28, 2020 20:54:52 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions. Not necessarily, When I purchased my Emotiva setup in 2018 and the manual stated the best performance is obtained using 240V, I wired six dedicated two-pole 20 amp 125V/250V dual voltage receptacles for my audio/video equipment per NEC 2017 Exhibit 210.2, so there is 125V and 250V at the same outlets. I used Leviton 5842 Duplex Receptacles. Attachments:
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Post by mgbpuff on Feb 28, 2020 22:46:59 GMT -5
Not necessarily, When I purchased my Emotiva setup in 2018 and the manual stated the best performance is obtained using 240V, I wired six dedicated two-pole 20 amp 125V/250V dual voltage receptacles for my audio/video equipment per NEC 2017 Exhibit 210.2, so there is 125V and 250V at the same outlets. I used Leviton 5842 Duplex Receptacles. Cool! That's news to me. I used to be pretty familiar with NEC code, but previous to 2008. I'm retired now and have not kept up with changes, but I must say this is a surprise. It may be advisable to check local code enforcement - sometimes they lag behind. |
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Post by vikingqc on Mar 8, 2020 10:33:25 GMT -5
It is done ! I have a new 240V circuit dedicated for my amp.
In short my first impression ... impressive!
I will test the change with REW in order to validate what I hear, but I must note that I have lowered the volume and I do not know if it is the placebo effect, but I have the imperssion that the dynamics and the image are improved.
My installation:
- the braker : 15A 240V (I'm in Quebec, Canada)
- the wire : 2 conductor + ground of 10AWG, about 40 feet (between my electrical panel and my electrical outlet)
- the wall outlet : a Leviton brand, 5028-I (15A, 250v)
- for the cable between the amplifier and the wall outlet:
- the wire : a 2 conductor + ground of 12AGW, about 3 feet
- male plug : Leviton brand, model 615PV (15 A, 250 V, 2P, 3W)
- the female plug (IEC format), model 320IEC14 (purchased on amazon.ca)
PS my amplifier XPA-11 Gen 3, do not use the ground.
My next step will be to take measurements of the connected amplifier on the 240v vs 120v, but for the moment I am happy to have followed the directive recommended by Emotiva in the user manual.
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Post by JKCashin on Jan 26, 2021 18:05:18 GMT -5
What Garbulky said, plus, in the U.S. you should only use 230v receptacles where absolutely necessary for(ovens, dryers, A/C, etc.) for safety reasons. Also, at 230v you are making those receptacle locations less usable for other home general purpose functions. Not necessarily, When I purchased my Emotiva setup in 2018 and the manual stated the best performance is obtained using 240V, I wired six dedicated two-pole 20 amp 125V/250V dual voltage receptacles for my audio/video equipment per NEC 2017 Exhibit 210.2, so there is 125V and 250V at the same outlets. I used Leviton 5842 Duplex Receptacles. How did you wire the ground? Just in the standard way.... so hot 1 to one pin, hot 2 to the other pin, and ground to green screw? What about the neutral wire? |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Jan 26, 2021 18:39:32 GMT -5
If there is a 3 wire plug, it should be for a 230V load that does NOT have a neutral connection. (hot, hot and ground). If there are 4 wires (like most stoves) there are both 230v and 120v loads in the device being powered and neutral is required for the 120v load. The amps should be pure 230v only.
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Post by JKCashin on Jan 26, 2021 20:06:59 GMT -5
If there is a 3 wire plug, it should be for a 230V load that does NOT have a neutral connection. (hot, hot and ground). If there are 4 wires (like most stoves) there are both 230v and 120v loads in the device being powered and neutral is required for the 120v load. The amps should be pure 230v only. It's neither.... it's a 2 wire plug on the GEN-3 amps. But that's not my question.. my question is about the plug, not the IEC wire. But I figured it out... 4 wires, 4 connectors.. easy peasey |
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Post by megash0n on Jan 26, 2021 22:15:34 GMT -5
If there is a 3 wire plug, it should be for a 230V load that does NOT have a neutral connection. (hot, hot and ground). If there are 4 wires (like most stoves) there are both 230v and 120v loads in the device being powered and neutral is required for the 120v load. The amps should be pure 230v only. It's neither.... it's a 2 wire plug on the GEN-3 amps. But that's not my question.. my question is about the plug, not the IEC wire. But I figured it out... 4 wires, 4 connectors.. easy peasey Can I assume you all are discussing "split-phase" here and not the "European" 230ish volts? I'm asking because I have a 240v 50amp circuit in my closet I've been wanting to pull into my bedroom to run my amps with. Just haven't taken the time to tap into the box to pull more wire from it. Not looking forward to crawling under the house, but I also need to run wires to where my subs are as well before the wife kills me due to the speaker wires laying on the carpet. Figured I might as well run it all at once. |
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Post by Ex_Vintage on Jan 26, 2021 23:22:43 GMT -5
It's neither.... it's a 2 wire plug on the GEN-3 amps. But that's not my question.. my question is about the plug, not the IEC wire. But I figured it out... 4 wires, 4 connectors.. easy peasey Can I assume you all are discussing "split-phase" here and not the "European" 230ish volts? I'm asking because I have a 240v 50amp circuit in my closet I've been wanting to pull into my bedroom to run my amps with. Just haven't taken the time to tap into the box to pull more wire from it. Not looking forward to crawling under the house, but I also need to run wires to where my subs are as well before the wife kills me due to the speaker wires laying on the carpet. Figured I might as well run it all at once. European 220v is a line to neutral value from a 380V 3 phase WYE system with a grounded neutral. In this system the voltages are 120 degrees apart. In the US 240V is a single phase value from a 3 phase DELTA configuration of power distribution. The voltages are 180 degrees apart. |
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