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Post by Mike Ronesia on Jul 1, 2009 1:36:13 GMT -5
Wow, I started this thread as an update and an observation. Now it's just people complaining that it's being delayed and others complaining about the complainers which makes everyone a complainer. I for one am glad they did a pre launch announcement as it gives me something to plan for. I would guess on a scale of 1 to 10 that a AV pre/pro has to be about a 10 and the most complicated of all the products that they make and issues are bound to come up. That said, forums are all about people expressing their opinions and or feelings so if they want to vent I say let them. When I get tired of it I just stop reading the thread. It's quit simple really. If you think you will stop them by complaining about the complaining you should take some time to evaluate your thought process. I love my EMO gear and will buy more when they have what I want and I have the money. Until then I plan to enjoy what I do have.  |
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Post by jkeedy on Jul 1, 2009 1:57:03 GMT -5
I decided I would buy a UMC then sell it when the XMC came in. The delays piled up, and I still waited patiently. But the most recent delay caused me angst and yesterday, despite my reservations, I purchased an Onkyo TX-SR876 (as a pre-pro). I got a great price ($900) and I still intend to sell it when the XMC arrives. BUT............
HOLY FREAKING CRAP! Just what I was afraid of. My brand new ERC-1 plays perfectly. My cable box plays perfectly. But through HDMI my Samsung Blue Ray delivers sound only. Switched cables. No luck. Switched inputs on the back of the Onkyo. No luck. However, the Samsung BR video works with component cables. So I borrowed a JVC Blue Ray from a friend and everything works through HDMI! It appears the Samsung and the Onkyo don't like to HDMI each other through pictures. I guess you could say they "talk" to each other but don't like to "look" at each other sometimes. :-( So I went to the Samsung site to download the latest firmware, hoping for the best and found Samsung doesn't speak to Macs! But that's another story.
Now I have to figure a way to get the damn things to be nice to each other. That may be hard since I have heard that the Onkyo people aren't very nice to their customers. First, I'll get with the previously mentioned friend and use his PC and download the latest firmware. If the new firmware doesn't solve the problem, it is on to the customer service trolls at Onkyo.
The personal moral here, and take it for what it's worth: I would wait patiently, MORE patiently, if I had the chance for a do over.
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Post by bigred7078 on Jul 1, 2009 2:19:41 GMT -5
I decided I would buy a UMC then sell it when the XMC came in. The delays piled up, and I still waited patiently. But the most recent delay caused me angst and yesterday, despite my reservations, I purchased an Onkyo TX-SR876 (as a pre-pro). I got a great price ($900) and I still intend to sell it when the XMC arrives. BUT............ HOLY FREAKING CRAP! Just what I was afraid of. My brand new ERC-1 plays perfectly. My cable box plays perfectly. But through HDMI my Samsung Blue Ray delivers sound only. Switched cables. No luck. Switched inputs on the back of the Onkyo. No luck. However, the Samsung BR video works with component cables. So I borrowed a JVC Blue Ray from a friend and everything works through HDMI! It appears the Samsung and the Onkyo don't like to HDMI each other through pictures. I guess you could say they "talk" to each other but don't like to "look" at each other sometimes. :-( So I went to the Samsung site to download the latest firmware, hoping for the best and found Samsung doesn't speak to Macs! But that's another story. Now I have to figure a way to get the damn things to be nice to each other. That may be hard since I have heard that the Onkyo people aren't very nice to their customers. First, I'll get with the previously mentioned friend and use his PC and download the latest firmware. If the new firmware doesn't solve the problem, it is on to the customer service trolls at Onkyo. The personal moral here, and take it for what it's worth: I would wait patiently, MORE patiently, if I had the chance for a do over. here is some advice, Take the onkyo out back and shoot it already as you both have suffered enough. |
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Post by Mac11700 on Jul 1, 2009 2:29:16 GMT -5
That said, forums are all about people expressing their opinions and or feelings so if they want to vent I say let them. When I get tired of it I just stop reading the thread. It's quit simple really. If you think you will stop them by complaining about the complaining you should take some time to evaluate your thought process.
Well...yes and no..you see...the problem with this train of thought is ..these forums are for discussing processors..and while expressing opinions generally isn't a bad thing..complaining about a missed approximate release date has the direct opposite effect on the fine folks at Emotiva..If a bunch of people start complaining (which several already have..) then the company is reluctant to release any new information..(which they already have started doing now).. Sometimes folks need to realize something...an approximation of the date of selling a brand new piece of equipment not in full production..is just that an approximation..wither or not they elect to offer a early adopter sign up or not...Even further...on a such a complicated item such as a new processor..knowing full well the problems they had with it's predecessor and releasing it as they did..one would have to not know these folks at all to assume the would release it until it was 99.9% correct...no matter what was said..or how many complained about any additional delays... Many of us are/were in the same situation of needing a new processor and having to go out and buy something to tide us over...but I sure as heck like the fact that some of the ID companies are keeping us informed about new products and the latest developments with them..It sure would be a real drag to get no information from Big Dan or Lonnie about future products all because several are being way to vocal over something at best was nothing more than an educated guess and a hopeful prediction. While some such as yourself feel you or others have a right to complain openly and freely..many here know and can see what is starting to happen if it continues..and I don't think censoring those that do complain is what is going to be the direct result..This is why several are trying to get a few to realize the consequences of their right to express their opinions.. One aspect of the right to free speech is knowing when to say nothing.. Mac |
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Post by dmcfadden on Jul 1, 2009 5:59:57 GMT -5
That said, forums are all about people expressing their opinions and or feelings so if they want to vent I say let them. When I get tired of it I just stop reading the thread. It's quit simple really. If you think you will stop them by complaining about the complaining you should take some time to evaluate your thought process.
Well...yes and no..you see...the problem with this train of thought is ..these forums are for discussing processors..and while expressing opinions generally isn't a bad thing..complaining about a missed approximate release date has the direct opposite effect on the fine folks at Emotiva..If a bunch of people start complaining (which several already have..) then the company is reluctant to release any new information..(which they already have started doing now).. Sometimes folks need to realize something...an approximation of the date of selling a brand new piece of equipment not in full production..is just that an approximation..wither or not they elect to offer a early adopter sign up or not...Even further...on a such a complicated item such as a new processor..knowing full well the problems they had with it's predecessor and releasing it as they did..one would have to not know these folks at all to assume the would release it until it was 99.9% correct...no matter what was said..or how many complained about any additional delays... Many of us are/were in the same situation of needing a new processor and having to go out and buy something to tide us over...but I sure as heck like the fact that some of the ID companies are keeping us informed about new products and the latest developments with them..It sure would be a real drag to get no information from Big Dan or Lonnie about future products all because several are being way to vocal over something at best was nothing more than an educated guess and a hopeful prediction. While some such as yourself feel you or others have a right to complain openly and freely..many here know and can see what is starting to happen if it continues..and I don't think censoring those that do complain is what is going to be the direct result..This is why several are trying to get a few to realize the consequences of their right to express their opinions.. One aspect of the right to free speech is knowing when to say nothing.. Mac VERY WELL SAID!!!!!!!! looking at my post count, you wouldn't guess that I read this forum on a daily basis.... I just don't feel the need or see that it would provide any value to complain.. the products will be released when they are ready.. I wouldn't expect anything less from the people at Emotiva. Dan |
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Post by jmilton on Jul 1, 2009 6:49:55 GMT -5
"Companies do not get better or make better products from positive feedback. It's the negative feedback that alerts them to their inadequacies and in turn moves them to improve." Funny, but that never seems to work in a marriage... not that I know from experience....but so I have heard...or read......  |
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Post by roadrunner on Jul 1, 2009 7:25:17 GMT -5
I was going to just bite my lip about the chronic complainers. However, there behavior has caused Emotiva to pull back from being so open with us. The "zest" of the few is ruining a unique relationship that Emotiva worked hard to establish... an open, respectful, family atmosphere. A relationship where there was mutual exchange of information from the conception on through the delivery of new gear.
Frankly, I liked that "family" relationship Emotiva graced us with. It allowed us all to feel like we were part of the process and actively involved in influencing what the end product would be. The few who took their disappointment over the top has ensured that we will hence forth receive much less involvement and less timely information.
The tone of the complaints has steady grown more and more acidic. This reminds me of something my grandmother said to me when I was growing up. She said that, "How one handles disappointment in life is a good indicator of their maturity level." The point is that some posts show all the maturity of a spoiled five year old. It is time to grow up.
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Post by elee532 on Jul 1, 2009 7:31:51 GMT -5
What proof do you have that Emotiva is no longer releasing information about products in development because of the complaining on this forum?
I would also suggest that some folks have way over-exaggerated the number of complaint posts. In fact, there has probaby been more debate about whether it's okay to "complain" rather than actual "complaints."
You feel Emotiva provided an approximation. I feel Emotiva has not lived up to the expectation that they set. I see absolutely no reason why we shouldn't be able to debate these two perspectives without either one of us trying to silence the other. To be honest, if Emotiva is the company that I think it is, they would have no problem with such debate... and probably even try to learn and improve from it.
As I suggested earlier, I think the middle ground in the future is for Emotiva to be open about products in development without giving estimated delivery dates. Why is it that folks would rather label me as a complainer than, say, have cordial discussion about what was intended as a constructive bit of feedback?
This is Emotiva's forum, and I participate here with no expectation of a right to free speech. They set the rules. To the best of my knowledge, the rules don't limit posts to only those that praise Emotiva.
Just out of curiosity, how did you feel about the discussion a while back regarding buttons vs. knobs? Emotiva showed a prototype without a volume knob. Lot's of people "complained" about the elimination of the knob (or, was it constructive feedback that they offered) and Emotiva made a change to the design. Where do you draw the line? As long as I don't get personal, I just don't see any need to censor myself.
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Post by elee532 on Jul 1, 2009 7:37:58 GMT -5
I was going to just bite my lip about the chronic complainers. However, there behavior has caused Emotiva to pull back from being so open with us. The "zest" of the few is ruining a unique relationship that Emotiva worked hard to establish... an open, respectful, family atmosphere. A relationship where there was mutual exchange of information from the conception on through the delivery of new gear. Frankly, I liked that "family" relationship Emotiva graced us with. It allowed us all to feel like we were part of the process and actively involved in influencing what the end product would be. The few who took their disappointment over the top has ensured that we will hence forth receive much less involvement and less timely information. The tone of the complaints has steady grown more and more acidic. This reminds me of something my grandmother said to me when I was growing up. She said that, "How one handles disappointment in life is a good indicator of their maturity level." The point is that some posts show all the maturity of a spoiled five year old. It is time to grow up. The quantity and severity of negative posts has been far overexaggerated! I'm not talking about just this thread, but all threads that have cropped up over these many months of delay. My grandmother used to tell me that it's fine to respectfully disagree with someone without calling them names like whiner, complainer, spoiled, etc.!  |
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Post by littlesaint on Jul 1, 2009 7:38:38 GMT -5
What else would you call it? Sharing my opinion? Discussing? Offering constructive feedback? Difference of opinion? Nothing said in this thread, by anyone really, is going to to change the release of the UMC-1. So any "constructive feedback" at this point is just bitching, or complaining if that's to sensitive a word for you. No promises were ever made on when the product would be released, and even if there were promises, a new bug that affects functionality is going to push back that release. Better to have a broken promise than a broken product. Again, I suggest reading some history on the LMC-1 to see why. When it does release, not everyone will be getting one right away, so no one should have any expectation of getting one anytime soon. I can't wait for the "I didn't get mine" threads to start. Emotiva is open enough to include people here on new products and even accept ideas and feedback into their designs. How many other CE manufacturers do this? No one is required to read these forums. No one is required to listen to the podcasts. If you can't handle delays, don't read/listen to the development process and wait until it shows up on the frontpage, ready for sale. |
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Post by bigred7078 on Jul 1, 2009 8:15:16 GMT -5
'What proof do you have that Emotiva is no longer releasing information about products in development because of the complaining on this forum?" Earth to elee532....Earth to elee532 I dont know if you have noticed but we really dont get any new information on product in development. We used to get a "play by play", but not anyomore... There is plenty of proff when it comes from the horses mouth...Dann G has stated severeal times that from now on Emotiva will be alot tighter lipped about upcoming products, and they may not even say anything until product is close to being ready to ship ::cough cough:: USP-1 ::cough cough:: |
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Post by flamingeye on Jul 1, 2009 8:35:22 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that
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Post by jmilton on Jul 1, 2009 8:59:01 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that Your concise, articulate insight is always appreciated! |
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Post by monkumonku on Jul 1, 2009 9:15:52 GMT -5
Sharing my opinion? Discussing? Offering constructive feedback? Difference of opinion? Nothing said in this thread, by anyone really, is going to to change the release of the UMC-1. So any "constructive feedback" at this point is just bitching, or complaining if that's to sensitive a word for you. No promises were ever made on when the product would be released, and even if there were promises, a new bug that affects functionality is going to push back that release. Better to have a broken promise than a broken product. Again, I suggest reading some history on the LMC-1 to see why. When it does release, not everyone will be getting one right away, so no one should have any expectation of getting one anytime soon. I can't wait for the "I didn't get mine" threads to start. Emotiva is open enough to include people here on new products and even accept ideas and feedback into their designs. How many other CE manufacturers do this? No one is required to read these forums. No one is required to listen to the podcasts. If you can't handle delays, don't read/listen to the development process and wait until it shows up on the frontpage, ready for sale. Yes, and may I add to that, let us all remember that Generalissimo Francisco Franco is still dead. ;D Things are what they are. |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:26:44 GMT -5
i really feel bad for Elee in this thread. it's hard to believe the folks here can't appreciate the frustration in the continued delays on this product. When you are put on a pre-order list it's a reasonable expectation that a product is just around the corner, 2-3 months is fine. but 12-18 for some of us is getting a bit rediculous. I'm all for the early information on upcoming products, but don't start a pre-order list til these things are in final production.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff 
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Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Jul 1, 2009 9:32:39 GMT -5
i really feel bad for Elee in this thread. it's hard to believe the folks here can't appreciate the frustration in the continued delays on this product. When you are put on a pre-order list it's a reasonable expectation that a product is just around the corner, 2-3 months is fine. but 12-18 for some of us is getting a bit rediculous. I'm all for the early information on upcoming products, but don't start a pre-order list til these things are in final production. I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting. |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:42:51 GMT -5
i really feel bad for Elee in this thread. it's hard to believe the folks here can't appreciate the frustration in the continued delays on this product. When you are put on a pre-order list it's a reasonable expectation that a product is just around the corner, 2-3 months is fine. but 12-18 for some of us is getting a bit rediculous. I'm all for the early information on upcoming products, but don't start a pre-order list til these things are in final production. I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting. It is however a reasonable expectation that a pre-order list means the product is imminent and purchase decisions are made or not made based on the fact that I have signed up for this list. granted, i can decide to go elsewhere at any time. but when you keep hearing that this product is close, you are inclined to hold off on other purchases. everytime there is a delay i wonder if now is the time to jump on something else. had I known a year ago that this product was more than 12 months out, I would have definitely made another purchase. |
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Post by Delaney on Jul 1, 2009 9:43:03 GMT -5
i really feel bad for Elee in this thread. it's hard to believe the folks here can't appreciate the frustration in the continued delays on this product. When you are put on a pre-order list it's a reasonable expectation that a product is just around the corner, 2-3 months is fine. but 12-18 for some of us is getting a bit rediculous. I'm all for the early information on upcoming products, but don't start a pre-order list til these things are in final production. I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting. I, for one, am not mad at you Dann. |
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Post by jmilton on Jul 1, 2009 9:46:42 GMT -5
i really feel bad for Elee in this thread. it's hard to believe the folks here can't appreciate the frustration in the continued delays on this product. When you are put on a pre-order list it's a reasonable expectation that a product is just around the corner, 2-3 months is fine. but 12-18 for some of us is getting a bit rediculous. I'm all for the early information on upcoming products, but don't start a pre-order list til these things are in final production. I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting. ...so that kind lady on the phone that took my $1,000...t hat wasn't you guys?  |
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Post by gocolts on Jul 1, 2009 9:52:28 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that I'd rather have customers holding a place in their home theater rack for a new product and complaining about the delay than having that same customer buy something else since they didn't know a new product was coming. If a few critical comments are enough to make Emo completely reconsider their information release strategy......  Don't feel bad for Emotiva. They've got a ton of people waiting months on end for a product they've never seen or heard, with money in hand. For that kind of luxury, some negative comments on an online forum seem fairly reasonable, and something I'd gladly take with a smile if I were them. |
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