DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2009 9:57:10 GMT -5
Like I said, some people apparently like to *bleep*. That you can't respect that I may have a different perspective is immature and fanboy-ish! Wow, that's really funny since you don't know me at all. A bit arrogant of you to assume I was talking to you don't you think, but hey, if the shoe fits... But, now that you have my attention, you also said: Which demonstrates your ignorance of what the term "vaporware" means. Vaporware is an intentional misleading statement (i.e. lie) made by a company about a product, service or software the either does not exist or does not exist in the form advertised made for the intent of misleading investors, increasing share prices, or generating a false competitive position. Vaporware claims are usually something that harms people because they are investing in the company. At no time has Emotiva made vaporware claims. Not only are they advertising accurate claims, the product is actually improving beyond those claims with each new partial reveal. All that is happening here is estimated delivery dates are slipping. This is normal part of doing business. Plus, no one is being harmed by these slipped dates, except for Emotiva itself. It is certainly not in their best interest to allow these delays, as they continue expending funds and resources to improve and modify a product line that is generating no revenue. Just look at some of the horror stories around the webz about recent similar product introductions that were rushed to market and are now causing all sorts of problems and hassles in the customer base. Emotiva's product delays are in the customer's best interests, not theirs, as it enables a better product once it is released. So how have you been harmed by the UMC-1 introduction delay? You think you are harmed because you can't get your hands on the product as quickly as you want? Why, because your feelings are hurt? That attitude - and it is not just being exhibited by you on this forum - reminds me of a spoiled child crying to momma about a shiny new toy they saw advertised on TV that they want, want want. Wha wha wha. As a wise man once wrote, you can't always get what you want. But if you relax a little and stop blaming the company who's trying to release the best possible product for your impatience, you might just get what you need. |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 9:59:49 GMT -5
That you can't respect that I may have a different perspective is immature and fanboy-ish! Wow, that's really funny since you don't know me at all. A bit arrogant of you to assume I was talking to you don't you think, but hey, if the shoe fits... But, now that you have my attention, you also said: Which demonstrates your ignorance of what the term "vaporware" means. Vaporware is an intentional misleading statement (i.e. lie) made by a company about a product, service or software the either does not exist or does not exist in the form advertised made for the intent of misleading investors, increasing share prices, or generating a false competitive position. Vaporware claims are usually something that harms people because they are investing in the company. At no time has Emotiva made vaporware claims. Not only are they advertising accurate claims, the product is actually improving beyond those claims with each new partial reveal. All that is happening here is estimated delivery dates are slipping. This is normal part of doing business. Plus, no one is being harmed by these slipped dates, except for Emotiva itself. It is certainly not in their best interest to allow these delays, as they continue expending funds and resources to improve and modify a product line that is generating no revenue. Just look at some of the horror stories around the webz about recent similar product introductions that were rushed to market and are now causing all sorts of problems and hassles in the customer base. Emotiva's product delays are in the customer's best interests, not theirs, as it enables a better product once it is released. So how have you been harmed by the UMC-1 introduction delay? You think you are harmed because you can't get your hands on the product as quickly as you want? Why, because your feelings are hurt? That attitude - and it is not just being exhibited by you on this forum - reminds me of a spoiled child crying to momma about a shiny new toy they saw advertised on TV that they want, want want. Wha wha wha. As a wise man once wrote, you can't always get what you want. But if you relax a little and stop blaming the company who's trying to release the best possible product for your impatience, you might just get what you need. This is just sad |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2009 10:05:13 GMT -5
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Post by littlesaint on Jul 1, 2009 10:12:29 GMT -5
I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting.  It is however a reasonable expectation that a pre-order list means the product is imminent and purchase decisions are made or not made based on the fact that I have signed up for this list. granted, i can decide to go elsewhere at any time. but when you keep hearing that this product is close, you are inclined to hold off on other purchases. everytime there is a delay i wonder if now is the time to jump on something else. had I known a year ago that this product was more than 12 months out, I would have definitely made another purchase. So you'd rather pay money now for something with a known problem, than wait until the problem is fixed? There was a reasonable expectation the product would be ready at the time the pre-orders started. Problems arose, and it was no longer reasonable. Peoples names are already on the list in line, so you can't cancel the pre-order list. Assuming any sort of guaranteed release from a pre-order list is your problem, not theirs. Plus, even if you are on the list, there's no guarantee you get one in the first release cycle anyway, so why would you base purchasing decisions on limited release pre-oder list that guaranteed you nothing? |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 10:20:33 GMT -5
Because you can't see why some of us would be upset by this. I was ready to make a processor purchase over a year ago. I did some research and decided to put myself on the waiting list for this product based on the feature set, price, and my enjoyment of the UPA-7 that i purchased. It seemed at the time that this product was going to be available soon. 3-4 months go by and it seems the product will be ready for the holidays. another 3 or 4 months go by and maybe spring, then maybe summer, now maybe fall. each time i could have purchased something else and been enjoying the new codecs and hdmi switching and probably better overall sound quality than my current reciever. but each time i figured... well I waited this long might as well stick it out another couple months. If you can't appreciate someone elses frustrations or their opinion on feeling mislead...that's one thing. But why do you revert to namecalling. |
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Post by bigred7078 on Jul 1, 2009 10:21:17 GMT -5
I wanted to remind people that the 'preorder list' is a waiting list, not an exhange of funds of any kind. No one has put money on a UMC and been left waiting. It is however a reasonable expectation that a pre-order list means the product is imminent and purchase decisions are made or not made based on the fact that I have signed up for this list. granted, i can decide to go elsewhere at any time. but when you keep hearing that this product is close, you are inclined to hold off on other purchases. everytime there is a delay i wonder if now is the time to jump on something else. had I known a year ago that this product was more than 12 months out, I would have definitely made another purchase. No that is an assumption to think that just because you're on a preorder list the product is right around the corner... You're just making things up. There is nothing in writing that states that when you sign up on a pre-order that is in no way binding the product will be here soon. Sure it would be nice, but thats Murphys law for you. Bottom line....If you're that pissed about waiting, just get something else for crying out loud. Internet Direct companies are sometimes a waiting game, deal with it. If you like immediate gratification an ID company is probably not something for you... |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 10:24:46 GMT -5
It is however a reasonable expectation that a pre-order list means the product is imminent and purchase decisions are made or not made based on the fact that I have signed up for this list. granted, i can decide to go elsewhere at any time. but when you keep hearing that this product is close, you are inclined to hold off on other purchases. everytime there is a delay i wonder if now is the time to jump on something else. had I known a year ago that this product was more than 12 months out, I would have definitely made another purchase. So you'd rather pay money now for something with a known problem, than wait until the problem is fixed? There was a reasonable expectation the product would be ready at the time the pre-orders started. Problems arose, and it was no longer reasonable. Peoples names are already on the list in line, so you can't cancel the pre-order list. Assuming any sort of guaranteed release from a pre-order list is your problem, not theirs. Plus, even if you are on the list, there's no guarantee you get one in the first release cycle anyway, so why would you base purchasing decisions on limited release pre-oder list that guaranteed you nothing? No, I would have rather purchased something over a year ago that did HDMI switching and handled the new lossless codecs. but as I have said in other posts, we were lead to believe that this product was close over and over again, so I delayed my purchase each time. My decision of course, but the podcasts and forum posting always made it sound that this product was close. Great that they are trying to release the best product possible. not great that they mislead me for a year. |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 10:26:45 GMT -5
It is however a reasonable expectation that a pre-order list means the product is imminent and purchase decisions are made or not made based on the fact that I have signed up for this list. granted, i can decide to go elsewhere at any time. but when you keep hearing that this product is close, you are inclined to hold off on other purchases. everytime there is a delay i wonder if now is the time to jump on something else. had I known a year ago that this product was more than 12 months out, I would have definitely made another purchase. No that is an assumption to think that just because you're on a preorder list the product is right around the corner... You're just making things up. There is nothing in writing that states that when you sign up on a pre-order that is in no way binding the product will be here soon. Sure it would be nice, but thats Murphys law for you. Bottom line....If you're that pissed about waiting, just get something else for crying out loud. Internet Direct companies are sometimes a waiting game, deal with it. If you like immediate gratification an ID company is probably not something for you... You win.. I'll go somewhere else. |
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Post by littlesaint on Jul 1, 2009 10:35:44 GMT -5
So you'd rather pay money now for something with a known problem, than wait until the problem is fixed? There was a reasonable expectation the product would be ready at the time the pre-orders started. Problems arose, and it was no longer reasonable. Peoples names are already on the list in line, so you can't cancel the pre-order list. Assuming any sort of guaranteed release from a pre-order list is your problem, not theirs. Plus, even if you are on the list, there's no guarantee you get one in the first release cycle anyway, so why would you base purchasing decisions on limited release pre-oder list that guaranteed you nothing? No, I would have rather purchased something over a year ago that did HDMI switching and handled the new lossless codecs. but as I have said in other posts, we were lead to believe that this product was close over and over again, so I delayed my purchase each time. My decision of course, but the podcasts and forum posting always made it sound that this product was close. Great that they are trying to release the best product possible. not great that they mislead me for a year. No one mislead you. There were delays in the products release. What exactly were they supposed to do? And people wonder why we call it bitching.  |
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Post by bigred7078 on Jul 1, 2009 10:38:50 GMT -5
LOL they did not intentionally mislead anyone! Problems DO arise in the development of a product. Every time they thought it was getting close, they discovered an issue. Nothing can be done about that.
Am i pissed the UMC-1 is not here? Ehhh kinda, but im actually more pissed that we have not seen any other info on the XMC-1.
The thing is there is thread after thread of pointless complaing. I say pointless because the same complaints are made over and over.Its never anything new and its usually by the same people. Emotiva soaked that in some time ago, now they are more careful about release dates and what they say to us. I don't know what other criticism you want to be able to voice your opinion over that has not already been discussed countless times in countless threads.
We are starting to cross over from beating a dead horse, to flat out skull f***ing this horse...
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Post by Delaney on Jul 1, 2009 10:41:56 GMT -5
We are starting to cross over from beating a dead horse, to flat out skull f***ing this horse... Steve...  |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2009 10:45:48 GMT -5
Because you can't see why some of us would be upset by this. I was ready to make a processor purchase over a year ago. I did some research and decided to put myself on the waiting list for this product based on the feature set, price, and my enjoyment of the UPA-7 that i purchased. It seemed at the time that this product was going to be available soon. 3-4 months go by and it seems the product will be ready for the holidays. another 3 or 4 months go by and maybe spring, then maybe summer, now maybe fall. each time i could have purchased something else and been enjoying the new codecs and hdmi switching and probably better overall sound quality than my current reciever. but each time i figured... well I waited this long might as well stick it out another couple months. If you can't appreciate someone elses frustrations or their opinion on feeling mislead...that's one thing. But why do you revert to namecalling. Of course I understand the frustration. I am frustrated too and would have loved to upgrade my pre/pro to HDMI functionality a year ago too. But I understand what's going on here is not because the company was trying to mislead their potential customers. They were simply sharing information as they knew it as it became available, sharing their excitement about a new product like no other on the market, and stating over and over again what they were planning for and dates they hoped they could make. But things didn't work out as they hoped. Oh well that's how business works sometimes. I have a new product I've been developing for my company since 2005 that should have been on the market over a year ago but due to supply chain and software issues is still in the prototype stage and I am again unable to get it off top dead center and to market on time. It happens, it's a normal part of the electronics business. It's expensive and frustrating. But my statements to my customers about expected delivery dates are not misleading - they were simply wrong and the delays are costing me money, it's not hurting anyone else. I lose business every day because of it. Emotiva is in the same position. You took the information how you took it. All I'm saying is that you and others who keep posting how much you were misled are simply wrong. You were not misled. You simply made incorrect assumptions based on product delivery date guesses and estimates that turned out to be overly optimistic. |
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oneliterpeter
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Post by oneliterpeter on Jul 1, 2009 11:04:56 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that Funny... I guess when your AC is broken on a hot summer day and the repairman says he'll be right over but doesn't show up for 3 days then texts you and tells you he'll be there next week... then he did nothing wrong. Or when a vendor promised that he'd have parts for your product ready by the end of the month and they don't deliver... then there's nothing wrong with that either. I like your philosophy... Don't show up for work for a few days and when the boss calls you into his office... I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you explain to him that you did nothing wrong. LOL The bottom line here is that as a principal engineer... it's part of my job to anticipate potential delays and factor them into my prediction of when I will deliver. Predicting when something will be done transcends all types of manufacturing and I can tell you from experience that delivering on time is of paramount importance when it comes to developing and releasing any kind of product be it electrical of mechanical. I'm certain that the folks over at Emotiva are sick about having yet another delay. They know exactly how damaging these delays have been and are doing everything in their power to get that product out to their loyal customers but... to say that there's nothing wrong with being late on a prediction... that's just being naive. |
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Post by bladerunner123 on Jul 1, 2009 11:08:58 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that Funny... I guess when your AC is broken on a hot summer day and the repairman says he'll be right over but doesn't show up for 3 days then texts you and tells you he'll be there next week... then he did nothing wrong. Or when a vendor promised that he'd have parts for your product ready by the end of the month and they don't deliver... then there's nothing wrong with that either. I like your philosophy... Don't show up for work for a few days and when the boss calls you into his office... I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you explain to him that you did nothing wrong. LOL The bottom line here is that as a principal engineer... it's part of my job to anticipate potential delays and factor them into my prediction of when I will deliver. Predicting when something will be done transcends all types of manufacturing and I can tell you from experience that delivering on time is of paramount importance when it comes to developing and releasing any kind of product be it electrical of mechanical. I'm certain that the folks over at Emotiva are sick about having yet another delay. They know exactly how damaging these delays have been and are doing everything in their power to get that product out to their loyal customers but... to say that there's nothing wrong with being late on a prediction... that's just being naive. You've come to the wrong place. This is where opinions come to die. |
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DYohn
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Post by DYohn on Jul 1, 2009 11:24:56 GMT -5
to say that there's nothing wrong with being late on a prediction... that's just being naive. The difference is that being wrong on a prediction is not the same thing as being intentionally misleading. Being wrong on a prediction is potentially devastating to future business and will alienate at least part of the customer base. But it is not "misleading" which is what some yahoos are coming on here and accusing the company of n this case. That's why I jump on them: it was simply an estimate that is found later to be incorrect. Those who made the estimate recognize they were wrong and have acknowledged it. It ain't being misleading and it ain't personal. And like I said earlier (and on other similar threads in the past) it is not life and death people, it's just a piece of home theater equipment. |
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Post by 2infinity on Jul 1, 2009 11:37:04 GMT -5
Ok so not to skull !@#@!@ or beat any dead or living animal but, I can see both points of view here on some level. Was I disappointed with the delay. . .Sure. Was I upset with the company? No! I agree most heartily. . .This is NOT life or death, except for the proverbial horse of course. I enjoy the atmosphere and vibe that I get from being able to have a dialogue with company on many levels, I for one greatly appreciate their openness and hope that the forums do not affect it at all. Despite my disappointment (and thats all it was), I feel for the guys at Emo and the problems they are going through trying to live up to our high expectations in getting high quality gear out in a timely manner for a lower than expected price point. I for one would like to thank Dann and the whole gang for being so up front as it makes us feel like part of the process and on many levels aids in our ability to time our purchases (a big plus when dealing with spousal approval and budgeting). For me, each update may cause minor disappointment, but is a heck of a lot better than trying to time a purchase in the dark and in effect wasting $$$ on something that I will not be as happy with. So if Dann or anyone else is reading this: Keep up the great atmosphere and lines of communication! You treat us better than just about any other company would or will and sometimes better than our posts deserve! ;D ;D ;D ;D ;D 2infinity Oh and for giggles: images.southparkstudios.com/media/images/602/602__image_09.jpg |
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Post by sbavnut on Jul 1, 2009 11:39:04 GMT -5
Ok ... forget July ... it is August/September now. Since it "will be available when it will be available", is it too late to add Dolby PLIIz? The "backside" of the UMC-1 cannot be changed this late in the game, but the software could be changed to give users a choice - use Zone2 Analog outputs for Zone 2 or use them for Zone1 "height" channels. |
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Post by jasona on Jul 1, 2009 11:52:29 GMT -5
I'm actually kind of curious if PLIIz could be a possible future firmware upgrade. I think in one of the Sherwood Newcastle 972 threads one of the guys from SN said that they were planning on adding it down the road as part of a firmware upgrade. In their case, I think they were going to allow either a 7.1 system, or you could re-purpose two of the surround channels to be front height channels (i.e. 5.1 + height). I think if Emotiva could do something similar, that would be pretty cool. My room works pretty well for a 7.1 setup, but from a theoretical standpoint, the experts say you should benefit more from the added front speakers (although I haven't read an actual review yet that supports that claim).
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Post by flamingeye on Jul 1, 2009 11:51:53 GMT -5
It`s true it doesn`t work well in a marriage especially when they didn`t do anything wrong like emotiva they didn`t do anything wrong unless you think it`s wrong that they didn`t predict how many bugs they would have to fix before the “estimated” date ,but threads like these surely will make emotiva act and the best fix for this is no news no forth coming of new products- you can`t complain about something if you don`t know it exists , even if they don`t give a time line and I`ve seen it before people will still pick apart what statements they have made like how it was worded and the like so threads like this are not constructive negative feedback they did nothing wrong , even nostradamus didn`t predict every thing right !!! P.S. I agree 100% on roadrunners reply#86 ,,, But I feel like I`m adding fuel to the fire so this is all I have to say about that Funny... I guess when your AC is broken on a hot summer day and the repairman says he'll be right over but doesn't show up for 3 days then texts you and tells you he'll be there next week... then he did nothing wrong. Or when a vendor promised that he'd have parts for your product ready by the end of the month and they don't deliver... then there's nothing wrong with that either. I like your philosophy... Don't show up for work for a few days and when the boss calls you into his office... I'd love to be a fly on the wall when you explain to him that you did nothing wrong. LOL The bottom line here is that as a principal engineer... it's part of my job to anticipate potential delays and factor them into my prediction of when I will deliver. Predicting when something will be done transcends all types of manufacturing and I can tell you from experience that delivering on time is of paramount importance when it comes to developing and releasing any kind of product be it electrical of mechanical. I'm certain that the folks over at Emotiva are sick about having yet another delay. They know exactly how damaging these delays have been and are doing everything in their power to get that product out to their loyal customers but... to say that there's nothing wrong with being late on a prediction... that's just being naive. How is that even related ?So emotiva is just wrong down right wrong for trying to give a “estimated” date that people have asked for time and time again O and for that mater any one that missis a date or time that they said would be there are doing wrong and are misleading people ,damn I wish I was like you and was never wrong about a time or date my life would have been so much easier ,but I guess I`ll just have to admit that I am a wrong full person that misleads people from time to time |
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oneliterpeter
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Post by oneliterpeter on Jul 1, 2009 11:52:31 GMT -5
Ok ... forget July ... it is August/September now. Since it "will be available when it will be available", is it too late to add Dolby PLIIz? The "backside" of the UMC-1 cannot be changed this late in the game, but the software could be changed to give users a choice - use Zone2 Analog outputs for Zone 2 or use them for Zone1 "height" channels. Please don't add any thing to my UMC-1... ;D ...and by all means take as much time as you like adding Dolby PLIIz to sbavnut's unit. He's got plenty of time. |
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