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Post by bluescale on May 27, 2020 2:43:45 GMT -5
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Post by steelman1991 on May 27, 2020 15:15:13 GMT -5
Quiet in here tonight - everyone testing hard?
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Post by marcl on May 27, 2020 15:23:25 GMT -5
Quiet in here tonight - everyone testing hard? Everybody was ready to upmix the SpaceX launch to 10.6.8 :-) |
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ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on May 27, 2020 15:42:14 GMT -5
I don't have a specific scene. I could maybe pop it in an check out a scene for an example. In relation to missing audio, I've identified two different things. Across the board, I've used the vague "missing audio" to state that some dynamics or bit rate is missing in my opinion. Just received The Dark Knight UHD dts-HD MA 5.1. Please direct me to a starting time in the movie as a reference and what I should but might not hear. I've got extra time now that the mission was scrubbed.  edit: oops. And how should I configure my system? |
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Post by megash0n on May 27, 2020 17:49:31 GMT -5
I don't have a specific scene. I could maybe pop it in an check out a scene for an example. In relation to missing audio, I've identified two different things. Across the board, I've used the vague "missing audio" to state that some dynamics or bit rate is missing in my opinion. Just received The Dark Knight UHD dts-HD MA 5.1. Please direct me to a starting time in the movie as a reference and what I should but might not hear. I've got extra time now that the mission was scrubbed. [img class="smile" alt=" " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png"] edit: oops. And how should I configure my system? I'm not home at the moment, so I can't give a specific time. My system is configured as a 5.1.4 according to the RMC. The subs are hanging off a MiniDSP. Everything set to small. I do have PEQ on the front 3 and distances all set to some number that seemed to jive well with the crossover point. I can possibly test it here in about 15 mins. I would just grab a scene near the part where he starts fighting against all the people in the temple at the top of the mountain. Sorry for being vague. I just left the gym and my brain is a little fatigued. 😂😂😂 |
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Post by megash0n on May 27, 2020 18:29:20 GMT -5
I had the "noise" for the first time last night. RMC got stuck on PCM and would not change no matter what I did. I ended up having to kill the power. After two boots, because the NIC didn't work, everything was good to go. Lost power today for less than 5 seconds... No NIC again. I've gotta go kill the power again until the NIC comes back. The good news is standby mode now works well, so I don't have the NIC issues anymore by simply restarting in a normal way.
Edit: the noise happened when I shut down the RMC which shut down the amps. Sounded like a static like spiralling down to nothing. Wasn't terribly loud, but definitely got our attention.
Edit 2: I had to kill the power 4 times before the NIC would work again. Lord give me strength...
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ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on May 27, 2020 19:05:07 GMT -5
My system is configured as a 5.1.4 according to the RMC. The subs are hanging off a MiniDSP. Everything set to small. I do have PEQ on the front 3 and distances all set to some number that seemed to jive well with the crossover point. I can possibly test it here in about 15 mins. I would just grab a scene near the part where he starts fighting against all the people in the temple at the top of the mountain. Sorry for being vague. I just left the gym and my brain is a little fatigued. 😂😂😂 What is the x.x.4 setup as? Tops? I want to duplicate your speaker setup, except for PEQ. I need to make my x.x.4 cables, I've been lazy. I don't know what it means to have distance set to work well with crossover point, can you enlighten me please? Very interested. Also, I'm wanting to get some Star Wars movies (I don't have any!) and I don't care which I get first, so if there's a title that exemplifies the issue really well let me know so I can get it for this weekend. I don't mind getting movies I want. Brain fatigue, or - Brain Cloud? |
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Post by megash0n on May 27, 2020 20:08:01 GMT -5
My system is configured as a 5.1.4 according to the RMC. The subs are hanging off a MiniDSP. Everything set to small. I do have PEQ on the front 3 and distances all set to some number that seemed to jive well with the crossover point. I can possibly test it here in about 15 mins. I would just grab a scene near the part where he starts fighting against all the people in the temple at the top of the mountain. Sorry for being vague. I just left the gym and my brain is a little fatigued. 😂😂😂 What is the x.x.4 setup as? Tops? I want to duplicate your speaker setup, except for PEQ. I need to make my x.x.4 cables, I've been lazy. I don't know what it means to have distance set to work well with crossover point, can you enlighten me please? Very interested. Also, I'm wanting to get some Star Wars movies (I don't have any!) and I don't care which I get first, so if there's a title that exemplifies the issue really well let me know so I can get it for this weekend. I don't mind getting movies I want. Brain fatigue, or - Brain Cloud? My heights are configured as Front and Rears Heights, not tops. The star wars movie I tested the other day was episode 3. You may be able to find a box set of bluray fairly cheap. In relation to distance, I mean that I used distance to adjust timing between each speaker and the subs. For example.. My subs are around 0 distance with my mains around 12 or 14 feet. This should put the mains roughly 12 to 14 ms delayed from the subs aligning them at the crossover region. Now, I'm no expert in alignment and really need to get REW back out to use its alignment tool for better alignment. I just haven't messed with it because Dirac will be here at some point. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on May 27, 2020 21:00:38 GMT -5
My heights are configured as Front and Rears Heights, not tops. Thanks. Just curious if you've experimented with setting your Heights as Tops to see if the dts issue remains? Gonna use my old Rear Surrounds for Rear Heights, and mount the other pair on stands for the Front Heights. This should be interesting! I didn't realize I'm almost out of speaker wire, I forgot I used up most of it when I ran the new locations of my in-wall surrounds. I should have enough to play with though, just need a little for the Front Heights. Might have this rigged up tomorrow night, or Friday at the latest, so hopefully you can lookup a scene that we can use as a reference. |
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Post by bluescale on May 27, 2020 21:05:46 GMT -5
I don't have a specific scene. I could maybe pop it in an check out a scene for an example. In relation to missing audio, I've identified two different things. Across the board, I've used the vague "missing audio" to state that some dynamics or bit rate is missing in my opinion. Just received The Dark Knight UHD dts-HD MA 5.1. Please direct me to a starting time in the movie as a reference and what I should but might not hear. I've got extra time now that the mission was scrubbed. edit: oops. And how should I configure my system? I don't have the timestamps, but watch the Hong Kong scene. There were several parts during that, both both during the day when Fox arrives, and when Batman does his thing at night. |
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Post by megash0n on May 27, 2020 21:29:45 GMT -5
Just received The Dark Knight UHD dts-HD MA 5.1. Please direct me to a starting time in the movie as a reference and what I should but might not hear. I've got extra time now that the mission was scrubbed. [img alt=" " src="//storage.proboards.com/forum/images/smiley/embarrassed.png" class="smile"] edit: oops. And how should I configure my system? I don't have the timestamps, but watch the Hong Kong scene. There were several parts during that, both both during the day when Fox arrives, and when Batman does his thing at night. My bad.. Wrong Batman when I gave my recommendation. 😊 |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
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Post by ttocs on May 27, 2020 23:28:10 GMT -5
I don't have the timestamps, but watch the Hong Kong scene. There were several parts during that, both both during the day when Fox arrives, and when Batman does his thing at night. My bad.. Wrong Batman when I gave my recommendation. 😊 , no biggie. What movie were you thinking of? ====================================================== The Dark Knight 4K UHD dts-HD MA 5.1 Well, I will say this, I wanted to get my feet wet so I have the Rear Heights working which makes the system currently a kinda unbalanced 5.2.2. Chapter 9 is where Fox has a meeting in Hong Kong. First, this movie is very bass heavy! Lots of bass. Tinkered with the crossover setting, tried 70Hz, 90, tried 110, nothing was "right". Second, the Center volume is low for both Neural:X and Surround so I trimmed it up 8dB. ! ! 8??!! The difference in overall volume between Neural:X and Surround is about 7dB. There is not much "brightness" in the sound, needs more treble. Is this one of the problems you all have been noticing? I decided to check something so I put Red bluray in and the sound is normal again. Took that out and put The Dark Knight back in and too much BASS. Both are DTS. I set the Center Sub to LFE, which I don't have, so now there won't be any LFE. But there is still too much bass. So the bottom line here is this, the movie "seems" like there's no treble, the Center channel is too low, and no matter how you trim - it still seems wrong. So I turned off both my subs which are set to Dual Mono, kept the setting for Center Sub set to LFE (which I don't have), lowered the crossover setting down to 80Hz, trimmed the Center back to +3dB, and now the movie sounds pretty normal. Could use some bass, but not much, definitely needs some LFE, treble seems ok. Except for the general difference in overall volume level between Neural:X and Surround, there doesn't seem to be any other difference - in general. Too much bass, not enough Center channel. If I had set the volume based solely on the Center channel, I would've blown out some speakers. I don't have any more time tonight, but I'm gonna try more tomorrow. |
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Post by markc on May 28, 2020 1:31:36 GMT -5
My bad.. Wrong Batman when I gave my recommendation. 😊 , no biggie. What movie were you thinking of? ====================================================== The Dark Knight 4K UHD dts-HD MA 5.1 Well, I will say this, I wanted to get my feet wet so I have the Rear Heights working which makes the system currently a kinda unbalanced 5.2.2. Chapter 9 is where Fox has a meeting in Hong Kong. First, this movie is very bass heavy! Lots of bass. Tinkered with the crossover setting, tried 70Hz, 90, tried 110, nothing was "right". Second, the Center volume is low for both Neural:X and Surround so I trimmed it up 8dB. ! ! 8??!! The difference in overall volume between Neural:X and Surround is about 7dB. There is not much "brightness" in the sound, needs more treble. Is this one of the problems you all have been noticing? I decided to check something so I put Red bluray in and the sound is normal again. Took that out and put The Dark Knight back in and too much BASS. Both are DTS. I set the Center Sub to LFE, which I don't have, so now there won't be any LFE. But there is still too much bass. So the bottom line here is this, the movie "seems" like there's no treble, the Center channel is too low, and no matter how you trim - it still seems wrong. So I turned off both my subs which are set to Dual Mono, kept the setting for Center Sub set to LFE (which I don't have), lowered the crossover setting down to 80Hz, trimmed the Center back to +3dB, and now the movie sounds pretty normal. Could use some bass, but not much, definitely needs some LFE, treble seems ok. Except for the general difference in overall volume level between Neural:X and Surround, there doesn't seem to be any other difference - in general. Too much bass, not enough Center channel. If I had set the volume based solely on the Center channel, I would've blown out some speakers. I don't have any more time tonight, but I'm gonna try more tomorrow. I've gone quiet because two 13 hour days at work. I'm going to factory reset tomorrow and see if that solves anything. Your comment about not enough centre channel is, I'm certain, due to a phantom upmixing issue with dts Neural:X The same happens to the L and R speakers with it engaged. Correlated and/or decorrelated audio is being extracted from the front speaker channels in the same way that an upmixer diverts some audio to other speakers. I have two XPA-5 amps and it was easy to test one speaker's output at a time: I powered down the subwoofer and then flipped the RCA/XLR switch on all of the amp inputs to silence all the speakers but the Left Front (Keeping this amp input as XLR) - then doing the same for the C, R, SL, SR Listening to just the Left front speaker (again a 5.1 PCM signal in a 7.1 setup, speakers set to either small or large, so it is not a bass or a crossover issue): Flipping from Surround to Neural:X using the Menu/Main/Surround/Up-Down method, the single speaker in action goes quieter and loses part of the audio signal. Increasing the volume does not restore what was there in "Surround" mode. This is definite. Audio is being extracted from the channels and this absolutely, incontrovertibly should not be occurring in a 5.1 to 7.1 upmix with Neural:X I can understand how this might be required for systems with height/top speakers - remove audio from the fronts/rears and place it overhead to give directional audio based on the upmixer's algorithms, but the fact that Neural:X is not implemented properly for 5.1 to 7.1 plus the volume decrease and front channel "smearing" that 7.1.X users are getting with Neural:X, it is affecting users with all speaker configurations. |
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Post by megash0n on May 28, 2020 6:04:36 GMT -5
My bad.. Wrong Batman when I gave my recommendation. 😊 , no biggie. What movie were you thinking of? ====================================================== The Dark Knight 4K UHD dts-HD MA 5.1 Well, I will say this, I wanted to get my feet wet so I have the Rear Heights working which makes the system currently a kinda unbalanced 5.2.2. Chapter 9 is where Fox has a meeting in Hong Kong. First, this movie is very bass heavy! Lots of bass. Tinkered with the crossover setting, tried 70Hz, 90, tried 110, nothing was "right". Second, the Center volume is low for both Neural:X and Surround so I trimmed it up 8dB. ! ! 8??!! The difference in overall volume between Neural:X and Surround is about 7dB. There is not much "brightness" in the sound, needs more treble. Is this one of the problems you all have been noticing? I decided to check something so I put Red bluray in and the sound is normal again. Took that out and put The Dark Knight back in and too much BASS. Both are DTS. I set the Center Sub to LFE, which I don't have, so now there won't be any LFE. But there is still too much bass. So the bottom line here is this, the movie "seems" like there's no treble, the Center channel is too low, and no matter how you trim - it still seems wrong. So I turned off both my subs which are set to Dual Mono, kept the setting for Center Sub set to LFE (which I don't have), lowered the crossover setting down to 80Hz, trimmed the Center back to +3dB, and now the movie sounds pretty normal. Could use some bass, but not much, definitely needs some LFE, treble seems ok. Except for the general difference in overall volume level between Neural:X and Surround, there doesn't seem to be any other difference - in general. Too much bass, not enough Center channel. If I had set the volume based solely on the Center channel, I would've blown out some speakers. I don't have any more time tonight, but I'm gonna try more tomorrow. Batman Begins. I always forget the first one doesn't have The Dark Knight in the title. |
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Post by AudioHTIT on May 28, 2020 7:11:33 GMT -5
Quiet in here tonight - everyone testing hard? Everybody was ready to upmix the SpaceX launch to 10.6.8 :-) If ever there was a place for Atmos(phere), this is it! Hope they make it on Saturday. |
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Post by SteveInNC on May 28, 2020 7:49:08 GMT -5
OKAY, here's where is gets different. Playing the movie Red bluray. Nasty gun fire scene culminating with the concussion bomb. I set the system for 5.2 - no rears Neural:X now plays A LOT LOUDER, which now makes it the about the same volume or maybe a tick louder than Surround which did not change volume at all. edit: In other words, I don't need to alter the volume level between the two modes to achieve the same volume. Change the system back to 7.2 Neural:X now plays quieter again. Other than these differences, I don't hear anything that's muffled sounding. Again, once I discovered a volume level difference I made sure to change the volume so the tests were level matched. You guys mention some missing sounds. Please give me a movie scene that's 5.1 with missing sounds to try. Actually, the quirk here is not in the action of the Neural: X playing the same volume as surround in the 5.2 config. If you were playing a 5.1 PCM or Dolby or dts source in a 5.2 setup, then Neural:X should not even appear as an option in the Surround Menu. i.e. Not available for user selection nor able to be implemented by Surround "Auto". 5.1 to 5.1 has no available upmixing on the XMC/RMC-1 and this is correct behaviour. ( Unless you use the RMC/XMC-2's faulty bi-amping from the front wide channels, where Dolby and dts upmixers are enabled and auto-utilised inappropriately, as I also highlighted previously) Neural:X would be there if you were playing 2.0 / 2.1 dts or PCM in a 5.2 setup, however. If you are not bi-amping using Front Wides, then I suspect it was just one of those menu quirks where Neural:X shows up as engaged and it actually wasn't (thankfully!) and so sounded the same as "Surround" Can you direct me to that info? I have not seen anything on that in the couple months I've been studying on the XMC-2. I don't have my system set up yet but, was planning on biamping with the front wides. Do we know if this is in the pipeline to be fixed? Thanks for your time. |
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ttocs
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I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
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Post by ttocs on May 28, 2020 8:08:54 GMT -5
Can you direct me to that info? I have not seen anything on that in the couple months I've been studying on the XMC-2. I don't have my system set up yet but, was planning on biamping with the front wides. Do we know if this is in the pipeline to be fixed? Thanks for your time. Bi-Amp can be found at: Setup:: Speakers:: Preset 1:: Size:: Front Width:: Bi Amp Front/None/Lg Front Width/Sm Front Width |
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Post by markc on May 28, 2020 8:24:54 GMT -5
Can you direct me to that info? I have not seen anything on that in the couple months I've been studying on the XMC-2. I don't have my system set up yet but, was planning on biamping with the front wides. Do we know if this is in the pipeline to be fixed? Thanks for your time. Bi-Amp can be found at: Setup:: Speakers:: Preset 1:: Size:: Front Width:: Bi Amp Front/None/Lg Front Width/Sm Front Width ... but it has a fault that means you probably shouldn’t use that method and stick to Y cables. Using Front Wides to internally bi-amp causes the XMC-2 to automatically use surround upmixers for 5.1 sources in a 5.1 setup and the same with 7.1 sources in a 7.1 setup It must be to do with the surround detection mode reading a flag wrongly set by the speaker configuration in the Emotiva somewhere flagging that Front Wide speakers are in use when they are not Using Dolby Surround to “not upmix” 7.1 to 7.1 doesn’t seem to affect sound quality, although I only gave a quick listen However, when dts Neural:X is auto enabled, just because the bi-amp setting is used, you get the problems outlined in the pages above when you play a dts source. Neural:X Kicks in when it shouldn’t as it is not required and tries to “upmix” 7.1 to 7.1 and causes the main channels to be changed with regards to volume and tonality and blurs the mix (for a lot of users, but not all, for some reason) Your question was “Is it in the pipeline to be fixed?”! The issue hasn’t been acknowledged or mentioned by anyone at or associated with Emotiva, so hopefully they have been silently working on fixing it (or removing the bi-amp Setting for the Front Wides altogether if the incorrect flags cannot be fixed.) |
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Post by hsamwel on May 28, 2020 9:04:04 GMT -5
Yes it includes Nightfly, Morph The Cat and Kamakiriad. I tested all the modes as described with Morph The Cat. Listened to all of Nightfly in Dolby 5.1 and it sounded great. I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. This sounds like the ”missing center” bug that has plagued Emotiva for quite a while. The processor takes the 5.1 track but plays only the L & R channels from it. If this misbehaviour is then upmixed I can understand the horrible Neural:X sound some have.. |
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Post by geebo on May 28, 2020 9:27:51 GMT -5
I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. This sounds like the ”missing center” bug that has plagued Emotiva for quite a while. The processor takes the 5.1 track but plays only the L & R channels from it. If this misbehaviour is then upmixed I can understand the horrible Neural:X sound some have.. It is the only one of the few DVD-Audio discs I have that exhibit the behavior. It is also the only one recorded with 48kHz sample rate. Upsample to 96kHz and it plays fine. I may try to downsample one of the others to 48kHz and see what happens. |
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