Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 11, 2021 15:12:43 GMT -5
Oppo hasn't released any new firmware in a very long time, probably over a year. Thank goodness my 203 is still doing fine with new 4K discs. In their prime they were like Apple on top of updates. No longer the case. A couple of observations: 1) This is not meant to generate hate from those who have issues - my XMC-2 has been very stable as of the last firmware. I don't consider it to be a Beta product and just as with most every computer based product that is firmware updateable these days, there is always something to fix or improve on. So I would say with that ALL of these products are "Beta" regardless of manufacturer. Just my .02. 2) I'm very happy that Keith has responded with an update on firmware. I'm of the camp that communication is a good thing. I realize that Emotiva has been burned with timeline promises in the past....dammed if you do, dammed if you don't, but with the right terminology and expectations, keeping people in the know and out of the dark I think is a good thing. I agree re: Keith. I wanted to respond but obviously members of the beta team are not supposed to say anything. Even though I’d love to share how the imaging is spot on now and how the sound quality has actually improved (it already sounded so great), I know I can’t say anything. The XMC2 is the least expensive electronic piece in my system but it doesn’t degrade the overall sound quality. It’s quite an impressive sounding unit given its price tag for everything that it does. |
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Post by jasonf on Feb 11, 2021 15:24:37 GMT -5
I think Emotiva is way behind the game because they didn't even attempt to implement CEC correctly in previous processors. Denon/Marantz (and as I understand they share the HDMI path with McIntosh) and other large companies probably have 50 engineers that have been perfecting HDMI/CEC/ARC implementations for a long-long-time. Actually, the CEC standards are so open to interpretation that D&M just perfected their own interpretation of CEC. It may play nicely within their brand(s), but it is just their version of the implementation and may not be 100% compatible with other perfected versions of the implementation. From my own personal testing, the Marantz has worked excellently with modern Samsung, Vizio, and LG TVs, the AppleTV, PlayStation 4, and PlayStation 5. It's certainly more than just their own brands. I do know that CEC is a pretty loose standard, but the basics have gotten better over the years. I think my biggest concern with the RMC-1 isn't that CEC features are missing, they are just inconsistent. CEC volume working sometimes, and then stopping all of a sudden. Or the processor freezing up when switching to ARC inputs. I'm sharing these experiences in the hope that Emotiva is reading and can try to address some of these issues, because everything else about this processor is fantastic. |
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Feb 11, 2021 15:42:16 GMT -5
Actually, the CEC standards are so open to interpretation that D&M just perfected their own interpretation of CEC. It may play nicely within their brand(s), but it is just their version of the implementation and may not be 100% compatible with other perfected versions of the implementation. From my own personal testing, the Marantz has worked excellently with modern Samsung, Vizio, and LG TVs, the AppleTV, PlayStation 4, and PlayStation 5. It's certainly more than just their own brands. I do know that CEC is a pretty loose standard, but the basics have gotten better over the years. I think my biggest concern with the RMC-1 isn't that CEC features are missing, they are just inconsistent. CEC volume working sometimes, and then stopping all of a sudden. Or the processor freezing up when switching to ARC inputs. I'm sharing these experiences in the hope that Emotiva is reading and can try to address some of these issues, because everything else about this processor is fantastic. Emotiva does peruse this forum, but not as a habit. Keith does spend some time here everyday, but he may not read everything. it's really a user's forum. I would say if you want to share your experiences, both good and bad, or possible suggestions, questions, send a PM to Keith. With all that he has on his plate, he is very knowledgeable and responsive. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 11, 2021 16:38:25 GMT -5
Let me add a little bit of explanation there....
By definition BETA versions of firmware are in the process of being tested. And, while we may hope that everything works perfectly, we won't know for sure until we test them... Therefore, if I promise to release something this week, but find out tomorrow that it doesn't work... I must choose between "releasing it when I promised" or "releasing it when it actually works"... We prefer the latter option whenever possible.
I did not even suggest that "nobody cares about a company that's no longer around". However it is also obvious that you aren't going to get much support from a company that's isn't there. Someone seemed to be comparing our update schedule to Oppo's... And my reply was simply that, at the moment, our update schedule is in fact rather better than theirs.
Without survival there can be no updates... or support... or new products. (We all like our jobs... and we'd also like to be around to support those warranties you get when you buy our products.)
Also note that Oppo isn't actually gone...
They are still happily pursuing their main business... phones.
They simply pulled the plug on several product lines that they apparently found no longer worth bothering with... The update is:
The last I heard the current BETA version is looking good... If it continues to look good, and we don't find anything else that needs fixing or updating, it will be released shortly... (We prefer not to release new firmware versions until they've been tested - and are found to actually work.)
We will most definitely let you know when the new RELEASE version is ready to be released...
I find your comment about Oppo interesting...
I think John Wayne would have made a cool Obi-Wan Kenobi too (the older one) ...
However, neither John Wayne, not Oppo's disc division, are with us any longer...
As of the latest information I have...
The new version will include a lot of small fixes to address "video not locking" issues... It also addresses issues with high-sample-rate audio via USB... And Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation is back...
As far as I know there are no new Earth-shattering features added... This was an interesting response from you. While I sat and pondered it for a moment, two things stood out to me. You mentioned "found to actually work", and were suggestive that "who cares about a company that is no longer around". Considering a very large community of your customers still think your G3P, in its entirety, is still in beta, it appears by your response that Emotiva is more concerned about net new revenue and survival than it is about delivering a legacy of phenomenal products and real value. Simply my take on a curious response to a serious question and problem. |
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Post by rhale64 on Feb 11, 2021 18:47:34 GMT -5
I actually love the way this RMC1L sounds. I do also realize that I won't find a fully balanced processor for anything close to the RMC1l's price point.
But I come on here waiting and hoping for an update on a new firmware every day. And normally see ramblings about the same old stuff that doesn't work right. By the way I do have the Pany UB820 and definately have that problem. And I get so disappointed that there is obviously still problems with the firmware.
As I said I love the way this thing sounds. And would love to not have to reboot it for sluggish behavior, or have to restart my movie on the Pany to get Atmos sound back. I am not disabling High Clarity sound just so it works unless someone can prove that it makes no difference in sound quality. I have paid for the best possible sound quality I can afford. And I just simply don't want to handicap it in any way. That's like telling me to use the rca outputs until we get the xlr outs working with your fully balanced amps and DAC. I feel real sorry for the people using the USB input and having that problem.
It is nice that someone from the beta team actually said something about it. And it is encouraging that it may actually sound better than before. But please try to keep us in the loop about the firmware. We all realize things come up. And for a while it was nice when you were informing us about the updates and potential problems. I actually started wondering recently if you were actually still working on an update, since I am not on the beta team, I had no idea. I started to give up on any new firmware release. And started considering selling the RMC1L. I really don't want to do that unless there is no hope. I was just looking for some hope. And appreciate getting at least a little.
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 11, 2021 20:38:04 GMT -5
Let me add a little bit of explanation there....
By definition BETA versions of firmware are in the process of being tested. And, while we may hope that everything works perfectly, we won't know for sure until we test them... Therefore, if I promise to release something this week, but find out tomorrow that it doesn't work... I must choose between "releasing it when I promised" or "releasing it when it actually works"... We prefer the latter option whenever possible.
I did not even suggest that "nobody cares about a company that's no longer around". However it is also obvious that you aren't going to get much support from a company that's isn't there. Someone seemed to be comparing our update schedule to Oppo's... And my reply was simply that, at the moment, our update schedule is in fact rather better than theirs.
Without survival there can be no updates... or support... or new products. (We all like our jobs... and we'd also like to be around to support those warranties you get when you buy our products.)
Also note that Oppo isn't actually gone...
They are still happily pursuing their main business... phones.
They simply pulled the plug on several product lines that they apparently found no longer worth bothering with... This was an interesting response from you. While I sat and pondered it for a moment, two things stood out to me. You mentioned "found to actually work", and were suggestive that "who cares about a company that is no longer around". Considering a very large community of your customers still think your G3P, in its entirety, is still in beta, it appears by your response that Emotiva is more concerned about net new revenue and survival than it is about delivering a legacy of phenomenal products and real value. Simply my take on a curious response to a serious question and problem. you're stating that once you test the beta versions, everything will work perfectly? Peiceless |
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Post by wizardofoz on Feb 12, 2021 4:32:51 GMT -5
@keithl
Can you also test the fact that audio pass thru on a power on to the last Hdmi selected - audio seems to be lost but video is there...until you switch to another input - let it settle there and then go back again to the original selection. just before selecting the alternate input there is a burst of the original Hdmi inputs audio - it just doesnt appear until just before the second selection takes place.
and also that the network LAN connection will ultimately hang the entire system up if left alone...unplugging the lan connection resolved my reliability of being able to survive more than 12 hours between use of the XMC-2 to more than 99.8% of the time.
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Post by megash0n on Feb 12, 2021 7:29:14 GMT -5
Let me add a little bit of explanation there....
By definition BETA versions of firmware are in the process of being tested. And, while we may hope that everything works perfectly, we won't know for sure until we test them... Therefore, if I promise to release something this week, but find out tomorrow that it doesn't work... I must choose between "releasing it when I promised" or "releasing it when it actually works"... We prefer the latter option whenever possible.
I did not even suggest that "nobody cares about a company that's no longer around". However it is also obvious that you aren't going to get much support from a company that's isn't there. Someone seemed to be comparing our update schedule to Oppo's... And my reply was simply that, at the moment, our update schedule is in fact rather better than theirs.
Without survival there can be no updates... or support... or new products. (We all like our jobs... and we'd also like to be around to support those warranties you get when you buy our products.)
Also note that Oppo isn't actually gone...
They are still happily pursuing their main business... phones.
They simply pulled the plug on several product lines that they apparently found no longer worth bothering with... This was an interesting response from you. While I sat and pondered it for a moment, two things stood out to me. You mentioned "found to actually work", and were suggestive that "who cares about a company that is no longer around". Considering a very large community of your customers still think your G3P, in its entirety, is still in beta, it appears by your response that Emotiva is more concerned about net new revenue and survival than it is about delivering a legacy of phenomenal products and real value. Simply my take on a curious response to a serious question and problem. While I'm sure we are both content to agree to disagree on some points or concepts, I appreciate the tact in your response. |
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Post by dkaudio on Feb 12, 2021 13:17:16 GMT -5
Nice detailed write up of the setting up and the need for CEC or probably a more modern version of CEC that is fit for purpose. I only use ARC and enabled CEC volume to use with it but have all other CEC functions turned off, so I didn't experience your issues thankfully. A few more days in, CEC does really seem to be this processors Achilles' heel. I've now discovered that HDMI ARC from my TV causes the processor to freeze up / crash, 100% of the time. I'm on the edge about calling this a dealbreaker. I am having this issue as well...ARC input would not get audio from my smart TV 50+% of the time. So much so that I bought an optical cable and ran that from the TV audio out. That worked ok for a few weeks but then out of nowhere, the audio came through as incredibly loud static muffled bursts. I was never able to get audio back through optical, I am not sure if it is the TV out or XMC-2 in. So, I'm back to HDMI ARC and hitting the power switch half the time to get audio. If anyone knows a bootup sequence of devices to help eliminate this issue, please post. If that is not the cause, I hope it is remedied in a FW update. |
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Feb 12, 2021 16:57:13 GMT -5
In general, when it comes to ARC and CEC, there is no specific bootup sequence that always works for everyone... But, for a given system and setup, you will usually find one that works if used consistently...
Also remember that, when it comes to things related to HDMI-CEC in general, the LAST device gets priority... So, for example, if you have the processor running... And you then start up the TV... The TV is "the last device started"... But if you then reboot the processor... Now the processor becomes "the last device started"...
(And that takes precedence over the fact you may have initially started the processor first...)
Another thing I have found is that sometimes the order in which you actually select the input seems to make a difference...
For example, whether you select the HDMI-ARC input on the processor BEFORE or AFTER you select the option on the TV that needs to use it... (On my particular older Samsung TV ARC seems more likely to work if you select HDMI-ARC on the processor before selecting the app on the TV that requires it. )
A few more days in, CEC does really seem to be this processors Achilles' heel. I've now discovered that HDMI ARC from my TV causes the processor to freeze up / crash, 100% of the time. I'm on the edge about calling this a dealbreaker. I am having this issue as well...ARC input would not get audio from my smart TV 50+% of the time. So much so that I bought an optical cable and ran that from the TV audio out. That worked ok for a few weeks but then out of nowhere, the audio came through as incredibly loud static muffled bursts. I was never able to get audio back through optical, I am not sure if it is the TV out or XMC-2 in. So, I'm back to HDMI ARC and hitting the power switch half the time to get audio. If anyone knows a bootup sequence of devices to help eliminate this issue, please post. If that is not the cause, I hope it is remedied in a FW update. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 12, 2021 17:24:07 GMT -5
A few more days in, CEC does really seem to be this processors Achilles' heel. I've now discovered that HDMI ARC from my TV causes the processor to freeze up / crash, 100% of the time. I'm on the edge about calling this a dealbreaker. I am having this issue as well...ARC input would not get audio from my smart TV 50+% of the time. So much so that I bought an optical cable and ran that from the TV audio out. That worked ok for a few weeks but then out of nowhere, the audio came through as incredibly loud static muffled bursts. I was never able to get audio back through optical, I am not sure if it is the TV out or XMC-2 in. So, I'm back to HDMI ARC and hitting the power switch half the time to get audio. If anyone knows a bootup sequence of devices to help eliminate this issue, please post. If that is not the cause, I hope it is remedied in a FW update. It will eventually lose sync btw the TV and XMC2. I’ve experienced this a thousand times. Then you gotta unplug the HDMI cables on both ends and reboot both etc for it to sync again...until it loses sync. |
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Post by dkaudio on Feb 12, 2021 18:10:08 GMT -5
In general, when it comes to ARC and CEC, there is no specific bootup sequence that always works for everyone... But, for a given system and setup, you will usually find one that works if used consistently... Also remember that, when it comes to things related to HDMI-CEC in general, the LAST device gets priority... So, for example, if you have the processor running... And you then start up the TV... The TV is "the last device started"... But if you then reboot the processor... Now the processor becomes "the last device started"...
(And that takes precedence over the fact you may have initially started the processor first...)
Another thing I have found is that sometimes the order in which you actually select the input seems to make a difference...
For example, whether you select the HDMI-ARC input on the processor BEFORE or AFTER you select the option on the TV that needs to use it... (On my particular older Samsung TV ARC seems more likely to work if you select HDMI-ARC on the processor before selecting the app on the TV that requires it. )
I am having this issue as well...ARC input would not get audio from my smart TV 50+% of the time. So much so that I bought an optical cable and ran that from the TV audio out. That worked ok for a few weeks but then out of nowhere, the audio came through as incredibly loud static muffled bursts. I was never able to get audio back through optical, I am not sure if it is the TV out or XMC-2 in. So, I'm back to HDMI ARC and hitting the power switch half the time to get audio. If anyone knows a bootup sequence of devices to help eliminate this issue, please post. If that is not the cause, I hope it is remedied in a FW update. I will try fully booting the processor first, selecting the ARC input, then turning on the TV and changing its input. Thanks |
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Post by jasonf on Feb 12, 2021 19:42:00 GMT -5
Another thing I have found is that sometimes the order in which you actually select the input seems to make a difference... For example, whether you select the HDMI-ARC input on the processor BEFORE or AFTER you select the option on the TV that needs to use it... I've noticed something similar. It seems like if I switch to HDMI ARC input first, and then use ARC it's usually OK, but if CEC does the input switch the processor requires a restart. Keith, I really appreciate your input on this thread  This forum is one of the reasons I've stuck with Emotiva for so many years, through both the good and the bad. |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 12, 2021 20:47:11 GMT -5
I’d say until the latest beta I still felt like the Monoprice HTP1 was the processor to beat given that it has more features, a working ARC, DLBC and supposedly less issues while sounding at least as good if not better than the Emotiva trio.
However, I don’t feel like that anymore. The sound quality is off the chain, as my kids would say. I thought music sounded much better but I just put a movie in today and holy cow- it’s living up to the equally good for movies and music hype.
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Post by foggy1956 on Feb 12, 2021 22:07:02 GMT -5
I’d say until the latest beta I still felt like the Monoprice HTP1 was the processor to beat given that it has more features, a working ARC, DLBC and supposedly less issues while sounding at least as good if not better than the Emotiva trio. However, I don’t feel like that anymore. The sound quality is off the chain, as my kids would say. I thought music sounded much better but I just put a movie in today and holy cow- it’s living up to the equally good for movies and music hype. The gen3 processors sans DLBC now sound better than the Monoprice with DLBC? |
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Lsc
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Post by Lsc on Feb 12, 2021 23:03:48 GMT -5
I’d say until the latest beta I still felt like the Monoprice HTP1 was the processor to beat given that it has more features, a working ARC, DLBC and supposedly less issues while sounding at least as good if not better than the Emotiva trio. However, I don’t feel like that anymore. The sound quality is off the chain, as my kids would say. I thought music sounded much better but I just put a movie in today and holy cow- it’s living up to the equally good for movies and music hype. The gen3 processors sans DLBC now sound better than the Monoprice with DLBC? i never made a direct comparison between the two. What I do know is how good the XMC2 is compared to my buddy’s BAT VK33se for 2 channel. Given the latest audio improvements I’m perfectly content with what I have. I only have one sub too and while I’m sure DLBC would be the optimal sub integration, it’s pretty darn good without it, so I’m not holding my breath. I’m sure the monoprice owners are happy too. I’m just too old to deal with brand loyalty and all the other nonsense related to that. I also just bought a Jeep Wrangler. I don’t care if the new Ford Bronco is better or worse since I’m not changing vehicles regardless - just a quick analogy. |
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Post by bblv on Feb 13, 2021 1:54:05 GMT -5
What's the latest on the expansion modules, DTS-X Pro, expanded Atmos, DLBC, etc? Still in development or did they give up?
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Post by markc on Feb 13, 2021 2:38:47 GMT -5
I’d say until the latest beta I still felt like the Monoprice HTP1 was the processor to beat given that it has more features, a working ARC, DLBC and supposedly less issues while sounding at least as good if not better than the Emotiva trio. However, I don’t feel like that anymore. The sound quality is off the chain, as my kids would say. I thought music sounded much better but I just put a movie in today and holy cow- it’s living up to the equally good for movies and music hype. The gen3 processors sans DLBC now sound better than the Monoprice with DLBC? Perfectly feasible that the Emotiva's still sound "better" (subjective). DLBC is some more digital trickery to manipulate/change the audio signal to attempt to compensate for room acoustics. We already have users reporting odd effects from Dirac Live that gives worse results depending on measurements, curtains, curves and user selections. It may make things sound worse and given how it is using a new type of bass blending over the crossover region, it has lots of potential to get it wrong. It is a very sophisticated (ie ambitious) piece of software that will probably go through a few iterations. To me, DLBC does sound great in it's intentions though and I would like to try it. |
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Post by markc on Feb 13, 2021 2:41:30 GMT -5
What's the latest on the expansion modules, DTS-X Pro, expanded Atmos, DLBC, etc? Still in development or did they give up? Modules (Don't know what type) are "coming" (!) DTS-X Pro - no word, so probably no plans and expanded Atmos probably the same. DLBC - It looks like this is unlikely to come to the G3P. Keith more or less said that there are obstacles and that we should not bass our decisions on whether it would or would not be translated to the Emotiva chipset. |
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Post by hsamwel on Feb 13, 2021 6:28:30 GMT -5
The update is:
The last I heard the current BETA version is looking good... If it continues to look good, and we don't find anything else that needs fixing or updating, it will be released shortly... (We prefer not to release new firmware versions until they've been tested - and are found to actually work.)
We will most definitely let you know when the new RELEASE version is ready to be released...
I find your comment about Oppo interesting...
I think John Wayne would have made a cool Obi-Wan Kenobi too (the older one) ...
However, neither John Wayne, not Oppo's disc division, are with us any longer...
As of the latest information I have...
The new version will include a lot of small fixes to address "video not locking" issues... It also addresses issues with high-sample-rate audio via USB... And Fletcher-Munson loudness compensation is back...
As far as I know there are no new Earth-shattering features added...
Yes I would love an update on the firmware also. I'm not ever one to complain, but it is ridiculous that it has taken this long between updates just to fix bugs in the system. If there was something value added I could see the long delay. But I haven't heard anything about any new features being added unless I missed it. OPPO would have had at least 4 performance enhancing updates in this same amount of time. And then pretty much everything would have been fixed unless it couldn't be fixed. I am getting really frustrated waiting as I am sure most all of you are too. At least someone give us an update or something. Thanks for the info Keith. But why in almost two and a half years are we only getting bugfixes? No GUI improvements, added features (unless promised from release) or any other added improvements? This is quite a long time and I’m guessing a lot of suggestions and requests have poured in during this time. I know I have made a few. Some of these could have been implemented quite fast. |
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