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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 1, 2020 23:50:39 GMT -5
That's why you would be much better off, in that situation, using one Speaker Preset for Dolby and the other one for DTS.
If you have two Dirac filter sets that use different speakers, IN THE SAME PRESET... You would have to change the speaker settings in that Preset each time you switch between those Dirac filters... (Because the speaker settings in that Preset must match the Dirac filter set you select in that Preset.) BUT, if you configure one Preset to use one set of speakers, and the other Preset to use the other set... Then, in each preset, choose a set of Dirac filters... (Which agree with the speakers you have configured for use in that Preset...)
You can then switch back and forth between the Presets, and the speaker configurations, without changing anything else...
This is another reason having those extra Dirac slots will be nice. Within say your Home Theatre Speaker preset, you can have separate configs for Dolby (w/Tops) and DTS (w/Heights). Though maybe they won’t let you change that within a single preset? Someone might be better off, but to do that I’d have to give up my two channel configuration (I was looking forward to trying Dirac with it.).Though I’d give up Dirac with two channel to be able to have it with properly configured Atmos & DTS:X and still have PEQ & Tone with 2C. I wish we weren’t loosing the third preset we had with the XMC-1, I guess all the slots aren’t going to help me much. |
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Post by JKCashin on Jun 2, 2020 0:25:41 GMT -5
That's why you would be much better off, in that situation, using one Speaker Preset for Dolby and the other one for DTS.
If you have two Dirac filter sets that use different speakers, IN THE SAME PRESET... You would have to change the speaker settings in that Preset each time you switch between those Dirac filters... (Because the speaker settings in that Preset must match the Dirac filter set you select in that Preset.)
BUT, if you configure one Preset to use one set of speakers, and the other Preset to use the other set... Then, in each preset, choose a set of Dirac filters... (Which agree with the speakers you have configured for use in that Preset...)
You can then switch back and forth between the Presets, and the speaker configurations, without changing anything else...
OK I am so happy right now.... I will be setting things up this way.... a DTS, and an Atmos preset. Didn't realize you could do this |
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Post by bblv on Jun 2, 2020 0:56:10 GMT -5
Wouldn't it really have been better if Dolby and DTS could have agreed on one speaker arrangement that would work well for both? (It's almost like they each wanted to force you to pick one over the other.  ) Couldn’t have said it better myself. Ok you’re right, I could’ve said it better! Thanks for the correction. Haha |
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Post by PaulBe on Jun 2, 2020 7:58:46 GMT -5
That's why you would be much better off, in that situation, using one Speaker Preset for Dolby and the other one for DTS.
If you have two Dirac filter sets that use different speakers, IN THE SAME PRESET... You would have to change the speaker settings in that Preset each time you switch between those Dirac filters... (Because the speaker settings in that Preset must match the Dirac filter set you select in that Preset.)
BUT, if you configure one Preset to use one set of speakers, and the other Preset to use the other set... Then, in each preset, choose a set of Dirac filters... (Which agree with the speakers you have configured for use in that Preset...)
You can then switch back and forth between the Presets, and the speaker configurations, without changing anything else...
This is another reason having those extra Dirac slots will be nice. Within say your Home Theatre Speaker preset, you can have separate configs for Dolby (w/Tops) and DTS (w/Heights). Though maybe they won’t let you change that within a single preset? Dolby has speaker layout recommendations for use of Tops, Heights, and Dolby enabled speakers. I make these adjustments in the RMC-1L. I use front and back Heights. Doesn't this satisfy both Dolby and DTS? I use a modified layout with Surrounds at 70 deg., and Rears at 135 deg. It works well with 7.1.x movies. Some multi-channel (mostly 5.1) music discs would like to see Surrounds at 120 - 135 deg. I would like to change the 135 deg. Rears to Surrounds in a Preset, and turn off the 70 deg. Surrounds, for 5.1 music discs. |
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Post by thxultra on Jun 2, 2020 8:04:12 GMT -5
Think I own 1 DTS-X movie it is easy to decide to optimize my setup for Dolby Atmos over DTS-X
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 2, 2020 8:36:33 GMT -5
If you only have 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, they will be playing the TrueHD core stream, and the Atmos metadata will be ignored. Only 5.1, why I aughta....   - Rich |
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KeithL
Administrator 
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Post by KeithL on Jun 2, 2020 8:52:49 GMT -5
CAN A 5.1 or 7.1 SYSTEM "PLAY DOLBY ATMOS"?
I checked with engineering about whether we report "Dolby Atmos" on the information screen when your RMC-1 or XMC-2 is configured for 5.1 or 7.1 channels and you play a Dolby Atmos disc... and I found out why many of you are reporting different things...
The answer is that, in past firmware releases, we WERE reporting that we were seeing a Dolby Atmos data stream, even if your unit was configured as 5.1 or 7.1 channels. However, we have since been informed by Dolby Labs that this was incorrect, and that, when configured as a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system, we should NOT be reporting "Dolby Atmos" when receiving a Dolby Atmos data stream, so it was corrected in the most recent firmware versions, and will now be reported as Dolby trueHD.
Also, as far as we know,there is nothing we report back to the source device that specifically tells it whether we "support Dolby Atmos" or not....
This is basically moot (unless you're just curious about what's on your physical disc or source data stream)...
If your system is 5.1 or 7.1, and you play a Dolby Atmos disc, or other Atmos content, what you will be listening to is the Dolby TrueHD core...
(And the Dolby Atmos metadata will simply be ignored if it is present...)
So, XMC-2 with 5.1 would not advertise via HDMI that it supports Atmos? And I can't listen to Tidal Atmos albums, can I? That does not sound right as even my android phone renders Atmos into two channels. And I think the TV does as well. It would be a pain to set up height speaker to improve the sound given constraints of my room. I was hoping that with Atmos the processor can render the sound better given actual speaker positions once I set up distances (and run Dirac when it is available). For example, I have the 2 surround channels not on the sides of my listening position like it is recommended but where the rear surrounds are supposed to be. It would be nice if the processor could properly mix surround channels between fronts and rears to give a more precise spatial sound. ***** Thanks to others who responded. I can't seem to figure out how quote multiple messages. Yes, I'm not sure AudioHTIT is right. My 7.1 XMC-2 has "DD Atmos" come up as the Surround Mode (meaning the Atmos renderer is enabled presumably, even though I have no height speakers, and hopefully the renderer is doing nothing and I just get the raw bed channels. Also, my Samsung detects reports "Atmos Enabled Receiver detected" (or something like that) when connected for the first time (I am one of the lucky people who gets HDMI CEC ARC-In to work from my TV) |
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Post by megash0n on Jun 2, 2020 9:49:09 GMT -5
That's why you would be much better off, in that situation, using one Speaker Preset for Dolby and the other one for DTS.
If you have two Dirac filter sets that use different speakers, IN THE SAME PRESET... You would have to change the speaker settings in that Preset each time you switch between those Dirac filters... (Because the speaker settings in that Preset must match the Dirac filter set you select in that Preset.)
BUT, if you configure one Preset to use one set of speakers, and the other Preset to use the other set... Then, in each preset, choose a set of Dirac filters... (Which agree with the speakers you have configured for use in that Preset...)
You can then switch back and forth between the Presets, and the speaker configurations, without changing anything else...
Dolby has speaker layout recommendations for use of Tops, Heights, and Dolby enabled speakers. I make these adjustments in the RMC-1L. I use front and back Heights. Doesn't this satisfy both Dolby and DTS? I use a modified layout with Surrounds at 70 deg., and Rears at 135 deg. It works well with 7.1.x movies. Some multi-channel (mostly 5.1) music discs would like to see Surrounds at 120 - 135 deg. I would like to change the 135 deg. Rears to Surrounds in a Preset, and turn off the 70 deg. Surrounds, for 5.1 music discs. Some of us have found that the DTS up mixer is awful when using "Heights" instead of Tops. Does it "work", sure.. But it sounds awful. Switching to Tops seemed to make all the bad stuff go away. I'd assume we will just have to use a preset for Dolby and a preset for DTS. |
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Post by markc on Jun 2, 2020 10:15:13 GMT -5
CAN A 5.1 or 7.1 SYSTEM "PLAY DOLBY ATMOS"?
I checked with engineering about whether we report "Dolby Atmos" on the information screen when your RMC-1 or XMC-2 is configured for 5.1 or 7.1 channels and you play a Dolby Atmos disc... and I found out why many of you are reporting different things...
The answer is that, in past firmware releases, we WERE reporting that we were seeing a Dolby Atmos data stream, even if your unit was configured as 5.1 or 7.1 channels. However, we have since been informed by Dolby Labs that this was incorrect, and that, when configured as a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system, we should NOT be reporting "Dolby Atmos" when receiving a Dolby Atmos data stream, so it was corrected in the most recent firmware versions, and will now be reported as Dolby trueHD.
Also, as far as we know,there is nothing we report back to the source device that specifically tells it whether we "support Dolby Atmos" or not....
This is basically moot (unless you're just curious about what's on your physical disc or source data stream)...
If your system is 5.1 or 7.1, and you play a Dolby Atmos disc, or other Atmos content, what you will be listening to is the Dolby TrueHD core...
(And the Dolby Atmos metadata will simply be ignored if it is present...)
Yes, I'm not sure AudioHTIT is right. My 7.1 XMC-2 has "DD Atmos" come up as the Surround Mode (meaning the Atmos renderer is enabled presumably, even though I have no height speakers, and hopefully the renderer is doing nothing and I just get the raw bed channels. Also, my Samsung detects reports "Atmos Enabled Receiver detected" (or something like that) when connected for the first time (I am one of the lucky people who gets HDMI CEC ARC-In to work from my TV) I have only ever had firmware 1.10 I have only ever had 7.1 Speakers (except for the brief time I used the XMC-2’s Font Wide channels to bi-amp The L&R Fronts, but that confuses the XMC-2 into thinking it is in more than 7.1 and tries to engage Dolby and DTS upmixers for 7.1 Audio in a 7.1 system, so I abandoned the built in bi-amping) (just as I abandoned any and all bitstreaming of DTS to the XMC-2 to circumvent any Possibility of DTS Neural:X Activity) I use "Auto" for my default "5.1 Surround mode" (which means multichannel >stereo rather than 5.1) in the input setup and I still see "DD Atmos" all the time, even for some Blu-rays where the back case doesn’t mention Atmos but calls it TrueHD. I can’t recall that I have ever seen a stream detected as Dolby TrueHD 7.1 , only 5.1 or Atmos |
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Post by Gerard on Jun 2, 2020 10:23:34 GMT -5
Wouldn't the implantation of DTS-X Pro on the RMC platform eliminate the "major" differences between Atmos and DTS X on our platforms?
I am running a 7.1.6 layout and I would really like to see what the DTS X Pro has to offer
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KeithL
Administrator
Posts: 10,273
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Post by KeithL on Jun 2, 2020 10:55:20 GMT -5
Hmmmm... we'll have to look into that. If you see "Dolby Atmos" displayed again, when you have your system configured as 5.1 or 7.1, please PM me about it. (Please include details of what your exact configuration is and what you're playing at the time.)
However, the fact remains that, if you play a Dolby Atmos disc, on a system with 5.1 or 7.1 speakers, it is actually playing in TrueHD.
CAN A 5.1 or 7.1 SYSTEM "PLAY DOLBY ATMOS"?
I checked with engineering about whether we report "Dolby Atmos" on the information screen when your RMC-1 or XMC-2 is configured for 5.1 or 7.1 channels and you play a Dolby Atmos disc... and I found out why many of you are reporting different things... The answer is that, in past firmware releases, we WERE reporting that we were seeing a Dolby Atmos data stream, even if your unit was configured as 5.1 or 7.1 channels. However, we have since been informed by Dolby Labs that this was incorrect, and that, when configured as a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system, we should NOT be reporting "Dolby Atmos" when receiving a Dolby Atmos data stream, so it was corrected in the most recent firmware versions, and will now be reported as Dolby trueHD.
Also, as far as we know,there is nothing we report back to the source device that specifically tells it whether we "support Dolby Atmos" or not....
This is basically moot (unless you're just curious about what's on your physical disc or source data stream)...
If your system is 5.1 or 7.1, and you play a Dolby Atmos disc, or other Atmos content, what you will be listening to is the Dolby TrueHD core...
(And the Dolby Atmos metadata will simply be ignored if it is present...) I have only ever had firmware 1.10 I have only ever had 7.1 Speakers (except for the brief time I used the XMC-2’s Font Wide channels to bi-amp The L&R Fronts, but that confuses the XMC-2 into thinking it is in more than 7.1 and tries to engage Dolby and DTS upmixers for 7.1 Audio in a 7.1 system, so I abandoned the built in bi-amping) (just as I abandoned any and all bitstreaming of DTS to the XMC-2 to circumvent any Possibility of DTS Neural:X Activity) I use "Auto" for my default "5.1 Surround mode" (which means multichannel >stereo rather than 5.1) in the input setup and I still see "DD Atmos" all the time, even for some Blu-rays where the back case doesn’t mention Atmos but calls it TrueHD. I can’t recall that I have ever seen a stream detected as Dolby TrueHD 7.1 , only 5.1 or Atmos |
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 2, 2020 11:16:43 GMT -5
Dolby has speaker layout recommendations for use of Tops, Heights, and Dolby enabled speakers. I make these adjustments in the RMC-1L. I use front and back Heights. Doesn't this satisfy both Dolby and DTS? I use a modified layout with Surrounds at 70 deg., and Rears at 135 deg. It works well with 7.1.x movies. Some multi-channel (mostly 5.1) music discs would like to see Surrounds at 120 - 135 deg. I would like to change the 135 deg. Rears to Surrounds in a Preset, and turn off the 70 deg. Surrounds, for 5.1 music discs. Some of us have found that the DTS up mixer is awful when using "Heights" instead of Tops. Does it "work", sure.. But it sounds awful. Switching to Tops seemed to make all the bad stuff go away. I'd assume we will just have to use a preset for Dolby and a preset for DTS. What would be nice is if we could get to what was talked about when Atmos was first coming out. You tell the system where you’re speakers are located, and it chooses how to configure them. Internally Dolby could consider them Tops, and DTS Heights (or whatever is best for that location). It shouldn’t come down to a Name, but a Place, how that’s determined is another matter, I remember some even talked about 3D mics that would automatically determine speaker location, but it wouldn’t need to be so complex. |
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Post by markc on Jun 2, 2020 11:22:30 GMT -5
CAN A 5.1 or 7.1 SYSTEM "PLAY DOLBY ATMOS"?
I checked with engineering about whether we report "Dolby Atmos" on the information screen when your RMC-1 or XMC-2 is configured for 5.1 or 7.1 channels and you play a Dolby Atmos disc... and I found out why many of you are reporting different things...
The answer is that, in past firmware releases, we WERE reporting that we were seeing a Dolby Atmos data stream, even if your unit was configured as 5.1 or 7.1 channels. However, we have since been informed by Dolby Labs that this was incorrect, and that, when configured as a 5.1 or 7.1 channel system, we should NOT be reporting "Dolby Atmos" when receiving a Dolby Atmos data stream, so it was corrected in the most recent firmware versions, and will now be reported as Dolby trueHD.
Also, as far as we know,there is nothing we report back to the source device that specifically tells it whether we "support Dolby Atmos" or not....
This is basically moot (unless you're just curious about what's on your physical disc or source data stream)...
If your system is 5.1 or 7.1, and you play a Dolby Atmos disc, or other Atmos content, what you will be listening to is the Dolby TrueHD core...
(And the Dolby Atmos metadata will simply be ignored if it is present...)
I have only ever had firmware 1.10 I have only ever had 7.1 Speakers
(except for the brief time I used the XMC-2’s Font Wide channels to bi-amp The L&R Fronts, but that confuses the XMC-2 into thinking it is in more than 7.1 and tries to engage Dolby and DTS upmixers for 7.1 Audio in a 7.1 system, so I abandoned the built in bi-amping) (just as I abandoned any and all bitstreaming of DTS to the XMC-2 to circumvent any Possibility of DTS Neural:X Activity) I use "Auto" for my default "5.1 Surround mode" (which means multichannel >stereo rather than 5.1) in the input setup and I still see "DD Atmos" all the time, even for some Blu-rays where the back case doesn’t mention Atmos but calls it TrueHD. I can’t recall that I have ever seen a stream detected as Dolby TrueHD 7.1 , only 5.1 or Atmos Yes. Confirmed. It is being reported as “TrueHD” but the Atmos Surround Mode is activated for 7.1 audio from 7.1 TrueHD Even in a 7.2 system, for Atmos Bitstreamed sources, "DD Atmos" is displayed on the XMC-2 as the Surround Mode (and Direct and Auto are my only non stereo options to select manually) , although the Audio "source" is displayed as "DD TrueHD" (No 7.1 mentioned, although it is 7.1) (TrueHD 5.1 gets “Dolby Surround” implemented automatically (which is good)) - 4K from HTPC with bitstreamed audio, and 1080P from OPPO BDP105 with bitstreamed audio.   I have also confirmed that a non Atmos TrueHD 7.1 source is displayed as "DD TrueHD 7.1" and the Surround Auto mode is Correctly displayed as "Surround" because no upmixer is needed. I note from your earlier post Keith that the Atmos mixer may need to be enabled to correctly render an Atmos Tracy to 7.1 if the metadata specifies this.   |
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 890
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Post by richb on Jun 2, 2020 14:10:27 GMT -5
Some of us have found that the DTS up mixer is awful when using "Heights" instead of Tops. Does it "work", sure.. But it sounds awful. Switching to Tops seemed to make all the bad stuff go away. I'd assume we will just have to use a preset for Dolby and a preset for DTS. What would be nice is if we could get to what was talked about when Atmos was first coming out. You tell the system where you’re speakers are located, and it chooses how to configure them. Internally Dolby could consider them Tops, and DTS Heights (or whatever is best for that location). It shouldn’t come down to a Name, but a Place, how that’s determined is another matter, I remember some even talked about 3D mics that would automatically determine speaker location, but it wouldn’t need to be so complex. From the Dolby website: In theory, processing could map object onto 5.1 or 7.1. Of course, that may produce results that are virtually indistinguishable from the "bed" channels. The Dolby Atmos information is focused on cinema production but also advertises the new SONOS Atmos soundbar. I get it now, Atmos can do nothing for a 7.1 system but a soundbar with Atmos, now we're taking.  - Rich |
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riscy
Minor Hero
Posts: 28
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Post by riscy on Jun 2, 2020 19:23:36 GMT -5
I am pretty sure that there is an issue with the ethernet NIC (Controller) crashing. Several users were using ethernet remote control systems (I use Harmony, so didn't really note the outcome of this), and there was a problem that arose when keeping the XMC-2/RMC-1 constantly connected to the network. I am certain it was Megash0n who tracked it down - between three and four weeks ago (It was just before I got my XMC-2) and in the other RMC-1 thread that was closed down when this unified XMC / RMC thread was created Ah - ok! At least I’m not losing my mind. Has been stable since I let it sit and grumble for a while. I will just try not to change IPs again : ) Thank you!! |
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Post by daleaherman on Jun 2, 2020 20:24:42 GMT -5
Timeline: June, 2020 - FW 1.10 is solid. So, when is Dirac shipping? Seems like we are past due???
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Post by ouddyhot on Jun 2, 2020 22:00:19 GMT -5
Timeline: June, 2020 - FW 1.10 is solid. So, when is Dirac shipping? Seems like we are past due??? Wait a moment to specify that it will be delivered at the end of the month. I haven't Tired waiting |
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Post by daleaherman on Jun 2, 2020 22:36:40 GMT -5
Timeline: June, 2020 - FW 1.10 is solid. So, when is Dirac shipping? Seems like we are past due??? Wait a moment to specify that it will be delivered at the end of the month. I haven't Tired waiting You are a better man? than I....End of month (6/2020) is OK by me... |
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Post by bblv on Jun 2, 2020 23:57:22 GMT -5
Haven’t fired up my theater in several days until tonight. For some reason the levels are all out of whack, so I adjusted them all. Oddly, my front LCR needed to come down about 5db and all other speakers up about 5db. Now the upper midbass and midrange on my whole system is completely empty sounding?? Like I can barely hear/understand vocals in many songs that I have listened to a thousand times...
I shut the system down and did a power cycle (rear switch) on the RMC-1. Still having the same issue. When I go in to the Equalization menu and cycle between the various speakers none of them sound right individually. Dynamics are missing. Everything is just....off.
Anyone else ever have this problem?
Guess I’ll try a full system reset tomorrow? I’m extremely annoyed right now. Finally got some spare time to crank it and can’t even deal with the sound!
By the way, I’ve tried playing music from both my PC and Nvidia Shield. Same experience from both.
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Post by aswiss on Jun 3, 2020 4:34:23 GMT -5
Haven’t fired up my theater in several days until tonight. For some reason the levels are all out of whack, so I adjusted them all. Oddly, my front LCR needed to come down about 5db and all other speakers up about 5db. Now the upper midbass and midrange on my whole system is completely empty sounding?? Like I can barely hear/understand vocals in many songs that I have listened to a thousand times... I shut the system down and did a power cycle (rear switch) on the RMC-1. Still having the same issue. When I go in to the Equalization menu and cycle between the various speakers none of them sound right individually. Dynamics are missing. Everything is just....off. Anyone else ever have this problem? Guess I’ll try a full system reset tomorrow? I’m extremely annoyed right now. Finally got some spare time to crank it and can’t even deal with the sound! By the way, I’ve tried playing music from both my PC and Nvidia Shield. Same experience from both. I did the reset because it sounded not good anymore (only with DTS). On the other hand - Atmos (and Dolby Surround) just played fine. Music:
I was doing some tests, and then decided to have a Network Streamer & DAC for music.
The USB DAC is not bad - but my Cocktail Audio X45 just sounds better. I use then Balanced IN with XLR - and Reference Stereo. This is the best sound for Music in Stereo. I use roon as a music service - I'm just happy now with music. Sound is great.
When you have a PC - did you use it with HDMI or did you give USB-Audio a chance? You could attach your PC with USB - Activate USB Audio UAC2 in the setup - and the PC will then see your Emo as a soundcard.
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