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Post by fransfar on Feb 28, 2021 16:27:20 GMT -5
FW-2.2 With my system being setup with LargeFronts and Dedicated LFE I'm getting grossly elevated bass in the Small channels. The bass for the Smalls is produced by both Fronts playing that bass since that is how the Bass Management in the processor handles this bass since there's no subwoofer channel assigned to send it to. With FW-2.1 the Small bass played same as when both Fronts played together. Now with 2.2 it goes higher in level than the LFE channel, so it's way too much. I didn't know what I was seeing and thought something else must be wrong, so I reverted back to 2.1, saw that things measured about what I was used to, then updated back to 2.2 and still didn't believe what I was seeing, but kept getting the same results. Bass is too high in the Small channels playing through the LargeFronts. My subs just have too much bass in 2.2. But this is only in HT application. I re-ran DIRAC and the overwhelming bass still persist. In 2 channel I do reference stereo. I have not tried 2 channel yet with 2.2. Right now sounds like a great time to experiment though. Results to come shortly! Reverted back to 2.1, did factory reset and reloaded Dirac curves from saved project on PC rather than a back up on USB. Thought this would restore my sub levels to those before updating to 2.2, that is, at 2db (to get a reading of 75db). However it transpires that I still have to decrease sub levels to -5db!!! Meaning, a firmware roll back did nothing to the increase in bass originally resulting from upgrading to 2.2!!! |
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Post by davidl81 on Feb 28, 2021 19:29:37 GMT -5
Yup, More bass in reference stereo as well, but not as overpowering as HT use where my 2 S15s are running. My 2 channel set up is a pair of Mirage OMD-28’s (dual 8” woofers) on a DR-2. The extra bass actually blends in pretty well in this set up. Listening to Metallica S&M2 on Amazon HD music through a bluesound node i2. Volume level is about 103dB looking at my app on my phone. Seems impossible to have more bass in Reference Stereo. I looked it up to be sure: In Reference Stereo Mode: • The output is always TWO CHANNEL STEREO. • There is NO bass management, and NOTHING is sent to the subwoofer. • You CANNOT use the Loudness Control, or the Tone Presets, or the Tone Trims. • You CANNOT use Dirac Live or the manual Parametric EQ Presets. • Level Trims, which operate in the analog domain, are still available. • Speaker Distance adjustments are active for digital inputs but not for analog inputs. • Stereo analog input signals are passed straight to the Volume Control and the outputs. • Stereo digital input signals are converted to analog then sent to the Volume Control. • Surround sound digital signals are decoded, mixed down to stereo (the Center Channel and LFE signals, if present, are mixed into the stereo output), and converted to analog. I will say it’s much harder to tell in reference stereo and it’s possible that I am just looking for more bass and it make me hear it. It is for sure not as pronounced as HT use (or stereo w/ subs for that matter). |
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Post by jasonf on Mar 1, 2021 0:12:27 GMT -5
Yup, More bass in reference stereo as well, but not as overpowering as HT use where my 2 S15s are running. My 2 channel set up is a pair of Mirage OMD-28’s (dual 8” woofers) on a DR-2. The extra bass actually blends in pretty well in this set up. Listening to Metallica S&M2 on Amazon HD music through a bluesound node i2. Volume level is about 103dB looking at my app on my phone. Seems impossible to have more bass in Reference Stereo. I looked it up to be sure: In Reference Stereo Mode: • The output is always TWO CHANNEL STEREO. • There is NO bass management, and NOTHING is sent to the subwoofer. • You CANNOT use the Loudness Control, or the Tone Presets, or the Tone Trims. • You CANNOT use Dirac Live or the manual Parametric EQ Presets. • Level Trims, which operate in the analog domain, are still available. • Speaker Distance adjustments are active for digital inputs but not for analog inputs. • Stereo analog input signals are passed straight to the Volume Control and the outputs. • Stereo digital input signals are converted to analog then sent to the Volume Control. • Surround sound digital signals are decoded, mixed down to stereo (the Center Channel and LFE signals, if present, are mixed into the stereo output), and converted to analog. I'm honestly struggling with this a bit right now because these are the "facts" as I understood them. However, it seems very evident to me that running in Reference Stereo the "Enhanced Bass" option is adding more bass to my mains. I'm getting ready to write up a review on this because I just setup Dirac and that eliminated a ton of bass from my system, but it's very evedient that "Enhanced Bass" is doing something in Reference Stereo mode. |
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Post by panasonicst60 on Mar 1, 2021 4:01:46 GMT -5
Hopefully with all this talk about, " too much bass on the new firmware" doesn't case Emotiva to do anything negative to future firmwares. Mine sound PERFECT as it did in 2.1. NO bass increase, zero.
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Post by marcl on Mar 1, 2021 7:17:03 GMT -5
Seems impossible to have more bass in Reference Stereo. I looked it up to be sure: In Reference Stereo Mode: • The output is always TWO CHANNEL STEREO. • There is NO bass management, and NOTHING is sent to the subwoofer. • You CANNOT use the Loudness Control, or the Tone Presets, or the Tone Trims. • You CANNOT use Dirac Live or the manual Parametric EQ Presets. • Level Trims, which operate in the analog domain, are still available. • Speaker Distance adjustments are active for digital inputs but not for analog inputs. • Stereo analog input signals are passed straight to the Volume Control and the outputs. • Stereo digital input signals are converted to analog then sent to the Volume Control. • Surround sound digital signals are decoded, mixed down to stereo (the Center Channel and LFE signals, if present, are mixed into the stereo output), and converted to analog. I'm honestly struggling with this a bit right now because these are the "facts" as I understood them. However, it seems very evident to me that running in Reference Stereo the "Enhanced Bass" option is adding more bass to my mains. I'm getting ready to write up a review on this because I just setup Dirac and that eliminated a ton of bass from my system, but it's very evedient that "Enhanced Bass" is doing something in Reference Stereo mode. You should document your findings and send a note to Emotiva ... and post here so some anonymous member of the beta team might verify and forward the results too. The spec is the spec, but it wouldn't be the first time something got broke in a firmware update. Regarding Dirac eliminating a ton of bass, this is a common complaint. So consider this: The single most important job of a digital room correction system is to correct the modal resonances caused by the listening room. These resonances occur below the "Transition Frequency" which is a characteristic of room volume and reverberation time, stirred in an equation ... typically between 150 and 250Hz. The resonances will be very large peaks and some deep dips in response, caused by the room, not the speakers. When Dirac corrects these resonances it will have the effect of eliminating the very large peaks for sure ... inevitably making it feel like LESS bass ... when in fact it is CORRECT bass. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Mar 1, 2021 11:14:04 GMT -5
FW-2.2 With my system being setup with LargeFronts and Dedicated LFE I'm getting grossly elevated bass in the Small channels. The bass for the Smalls is produced by both Fronts playing that bass since that is how the Bass Management in the processor handles this bass since there's no subwoofer channel assigned to send it to. With FW-2.1 the Small bass played same as when both Fronts played together. Now with 2.2 it goes higher in level than the LFE channel, so it's way too much. I didn't know what I was seeing and thought something else must be wrong, so I reverted back to 2.1, saw that things measured about what I was used to, then updated back to 2.2 and still didn't believe what I was seeing, but kept getting the same results. Bass is too high in the Small channels playing through the LargeFronts. My subs just have too much bass in 2.2. But this is only in HT application. I re-ran DIRAC and the overwhelming bass still persist. In 2 channel I do reference stereo. I have not tried 2 channel yet with 2.2. Right now sounds like a great time to experiment though. Results to come shortly! I'm also in the bunch of people having seen a bass boost after 2.2 update. I wonder if it is related to my already bass boosted Dirac curve in fonction in the XMC-2 before the update. It should be very interesting to know how many people that having a bass boost after update, having before the update a Dirac's curve boosted in bass. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 1, 2021 11:48:10 GMT -5
My subs just have too much bass in 2.2. But this is only in HT application. I re-ran DIRAC and the overwhelming bass still persist. In 2 channel I do reference stereo. I have not tried 2 channel yet with 2.2. Right now sounds like a great time to experiment though. Results to come shortly! I'm also in the bunch of people having seen a bass boost after 2.2 update. I wonder if it is related to my already bass boosted Dirac curve in fonction in the XMC-2 before the update. It should be very interesting to know how many people that having a bass boost after update, having before the update a Dirac's curve boosted in bass. I run 6db curve in Dirac, no change in bass after 2.2 |
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Post by davidl81 on Mar 1, 2021 11:54:01 GMT -5
I'm also in the bunch of people having seen a bass boost after 2.2 update. I wonder if it is related to my already bass boosted Dirac curve in fonction in the XMC-2 before the update. It should be very interesting to know how many people that having a bass boost after update, having before the update a Dirac's curve boosted in bass. I run 6db curve in Dirac, no change in bass after 2.2 No change in the outputs of your sub? I just want to be clear since it seems like many have sub issues with 2.2 so there may be something in your setup that is different that I can copy. |
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Post by foggy1956 on Mar 1, 2021 11:56:03 GMT -5
I run 6db curve in Dirac, no change in bass after 2.2 No change in the outputs of your sub? I just want to be clear since it seems like many have sub issues with 2.2 so there may be something in your setup that is different that I can copy. Correct, runñing towers as large, the rest small, center sub mono |
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Post by geebo on Mar 1, 2021 12:07:00 GMT -5
Running my speakers as small with a single sub and getting exaggerated bass in both User and Dirac EQ settings. And that's after matching levels in the Setup to match the front speakers.
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Post by davidl81 on Mar 1, 2021 12:17:57 GMT -5
Running my speakers as small with a single sub and getting exaggerated bass in both User and Dirac EQ settings. And that's after matching levels in the Setup to match the front speakers. I just went to the theater room and I will say the bass is not as noticeable at lower volume levels. Once I go to about -20 or so on the RMC I can really start to tell. I listened to both Boeheim Rhapsody (movie, the live aid concert scene) (Dolby Atmos), and Metallica S&M2 (DTS-HD). I did concerts because the bass drum was very easy to notice. I ended up adjusting the trim on the sub down to -7.5dB and it started to blend in better. I am running a 8dB Harmon curve yet I have never had this issue before. I will load the Dirac house curve and se what that sounds like. |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Mar 1, 2021 12:20:41 GMT -5
I'm also in the bunch of people having seen a bass boost after 2.2 update. I wonder if it is related to my already bass boosted Dirac curve in fonction in the XMC-2 before the update. It should be very interesting to know how many people that having a bass boost after update, having before the update a Dirac's curve boosted in bass. I run 6db curve in Dirac, no change in bass after 2.2 Very strange, my curve is 4 dB bass boost in Dirac, now I observe approx 5 to 6 dB more than before bass jumped. Your situation is similar then mine but two differents results after updating. |
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Post by aswiss on Mar 1, 2021 12:21:26 GMT -5
My subs just have too much bass in 2.2. But this is only in HT application. I re-ran DIRAC and the overwhelming bass still persist. In 2 channel I do reference stereo. I have not tried 2 channel yet with 2.2. Right now sounds like a great time to experiment though. Results to come shortly! I'm also in the bunch of people having seen a bass boost after 2.2 update. I wonder if it is related to my already bass boosted Dirac curve in fonction in the XMC-2 before the update. It should be very interesting to know how many people that having a bass boost after update, having before the update a Dirac's curve boosted in bass. I'm in the same boat. The Plop or Bang Noise was so loud that my DR3 Amps went off. I had almost a heart attack. And I did not had Dirac Curve active as I do not use a Sub. It was a shocking Moment.
It happened whenn I first listened to DSD Direct 5 Channel fromthe oppo. Then wanted to switch over to Balanced IN to play with Roon. I tried it twice, same issue. Then decided to go back to 2.1.
Did anyone open a ticket? After 2.1 I thought it will be no problem - but it got worse for me - with a potential risk of speaker damage. I can stay on 2.1 but this is against Emo's recomendation.
I really start to think again in selling the rmc-1
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Post by vmbray on Mar 1, 2021 13:02:18 GMT -5
I’m not seeing a bass boost and am running at least 6db bass boost in curve. Sounds same as far as bass to 2.1.
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Post by panasonicst60 on Mar 1, 2021 13:18:05 GMT -5
For anyone who says that there is a bass increase, please use REW to measure and show proof in frequency response. I have the 2.1 and 2.2 dirac measurements on REW and no difference. Your ears can play tricks on you, especially when reading other people's post.
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Post by jasonf on Mar 1, 2021 13:32:17 GMT -5
You should document your findings and send a note to Emotiva ... and post here so some anonymous member of the beta team might verify and forward the results too. The spec is the spec, but it wouldn't be the first time something got broke in a firmware update. Regarding Dirac eliminating a ton of bass, this is a common complaint. So consider this: The single most important job of a digital room correction system is to correct the modal resonances caused by the listening room. These resonances occur below the "Transition Frequency" which is a characteristic of room volume and reverberation time, stirred in an equation ... typically between 150 and 250Hz. The resonances will be very large peaks and some deep dips in response, caused by the room, not the speakers. When Dirac corrects these resonances it will have the effect of eliminating the very large peaks for sure ... inevitably making it feel like LESS bass ... when in fact it is CORRECT bass. I did multiple back-to-backs of "Enhanced Bass" on/off in Reference Stereo, and I'm no longer sure there is a different (there isn't supposed to be). I swear I feel more wind from displaced air but... honestly I'm doubting the difference now. I'm going to blind a friend on it this week out of curiosity. Regarding Dirac bass - I can't reproduce the no bass situation I mentioned below. I must have gotten into a weird state somehow. For critical listening, Dirac takes a hit to absolute clarity over Reference Stereo. However, for everyday background music, I think I prefer Dirac stereo + Loudness. Overall I think the config I'm settling on is: Mains: Large Enhanced Bass: Off Center Sub: LFE I will say, Dirac calibration is a pain in the butt. My Raspberry Pi didn't work because it was damaged in shipping, but Keith helped me figure that out. He called me like 3 times to make sure I had it working, so... that's some pretty awesome customer service. Then the calibration complained about my SN ratio, likely because I live in a high-rise next to I-5 in downtown Seattle and it didn't like the drone of traffic outside at 4PM peak traffic. I had to turn the output up and the mic off. I was bummed the mic didn't have a camera tripod compatible mount the way that Audyssey does. And lastly... the Diract app, the Pi, and the processor crash 80% of the time I try to save the EQ. The app lets me pick up from where it ended, and I've been able to get it each time after a few tries, but there are certainly bugs to be worked out here. However, the results in multi-channel are  . I'm happy that I have a workable solution, but there is a bit of tango involved  ===== I've just barely had time to pull the facts together on this. I plan on writing it all up and sharing my test results. In regards to the Dirac bass - I really don't think what I'm experiencing is correct. If I leave my sub on (enhanced bass + mono sub mode) then I get a reasonable, but lighter and more controlled bass response than without Dirac. If I disable my sub (enhanced bass off and/or sub on LFE) then it sounds like my mains run with a very high HPF. I barely even get mids. I need to play around with it a bit more, hopefully this evening. |
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Post by richter250 on Mar 1, 2021 13:32:43 GMT -5
Interesting findings for me with 2.2 Dirac measurements. I have one speaker preset set up for 2.1 channels. New Dirac measurements and filters sent to that preset have normal bass response and the sub measures as expected in REW. The second speaker preset is set up as 7.1.2 channels. On that preset the sub measures 6-7 db too high in the levels test tones and in REW after importing the new filters. Not sure what this means but it is repeatable. I am using Dirac 3.0.11 and have all speakers set to small using a single mono center sub.
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muddy
Seeker Of Truth
Posts: 1
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Post by muddy on Mar 1, 2021 13:41:27 GMT -5
So I was moving some components around/organizing some wiring in my rack and had to unplug my components and power down everything. Now I can’t get CEC working again. CEC works between the TV and Apple TV and Panasonic player but not the XMC. Power and volume will not work via CEC. No settings have changed and I have rebooted several time unplugging all the HDMI cables. Everything else seems to be working as before and I have changed no settings. Is there a reboot process that resets all the CEC handshaking to get everything “talking” correctly again? Got it working again! Shut the power off to the XMC for more than a minute, maybe 5. Unplugged all HDMI connections. Turned on the XMC and let it fully boot up then plugged in the HDMI connections. Turned on the Apple 4k, boom, works again. Hi all, I have tried to get CEC working with XMC-2 and my LG C9 television. I first tried with firmware 2.1, with "many" setups and combination of settings, no luck. Thought that there must be something wrong with firmware, decided to wait next one. Now when the 2.2 firmware was released tried also with it. Same thing, CEC didn't work and I couldn't get ARC working. But now, finally, I have working solution. I have set these basic CEC settings in XMC-2: - only input and volume change - ARC enabled in input 2 For my LG C9 television: - disabled automatic device identification - enabled SimpleLink (HDMI CEC) - disabled automatic CEC power on/off - and for the HDMI ARC settings: - passthrough and disable eARC So the trick was to unplugged all HDMI connections and plug them back in right order. Thanks for the hint! I don't know how HDMI CEC handshake is done but it seems to be quite tricky. I think the order of connecting HDMI cables is crucial. So: - shut down everything - unplug all HDMI cables from television and XMC-2 - turn on television first - connect HDMI cable to television - connect HDMI cable to XMC-2 and power it on - wait and let the XMC-2 to boot up - connect rest of the HDMI cables (e.g. set-top boxes) and power them on |
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Post by frenchyfranky on Mar 1, 2021 15:11:25 GMT -5
For anyone who says that there is a bass increase, please use REW to measure and show proof in frequency response. I have the 2.1 and 2.2 dirac measurements on REW and no difference. Your ears can play tricks on you, especially when reading other people's post. Come on! No psycho effect here, just noticed the bass bump at the very first listening after updating. For measuring with REW with 2.2 ver. After get back to 2.1 and measure again with REW, it's a good idea but I really don't have that time for now. |
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Post by kemac on Mar 1, 2021 16:09:06 GMT -5
I noticed a change (substantial Increase)in bass since updating to ver.2.2 as well, just stopped in here to see if others were reporting the same thing and what the solution is etc.
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. I'm happy that I have a workable solution, but there is a bit of tango involved 
