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Post by markc on Jun 10, 2020 13:23:25 GMT -5
HDMI 2 is considered the primary HDMI output on the XMC-2/RMC
It is also the one with ARC capability.
On a similar note, connect the Emotiva to the primary (ARC) input of your TV
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Post by Mark on Jun 10, 2020 13:26:55 GMT -5
If not already doing so, try using HDMI Out 2 from your unit to the TV. Also, as mentioned earlier, make sure the Input on your Sony TV is set to Enhanced. Steve Why HDMI 2? My AppleTV thru XMC2 tends to be a black screen once things boot up. I also use a harmony remote. If I wait for the harmony to complete its start and then click the equivalent to the menu button on the Apple remote the picture appears a couple seconds later. I am using HDMI 2 out on the XMC2 and I have the Sony set to enhanced. I think it is the handshake from appletv hdr that causes the black screen. Clicking the menu button on the remote seems to kick it in gear
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Post by Mark on Jun 10, 2020 13:29:44 GMT -5
My AppleTV thru XMC2 tends to be a black screen once things boot up. I also use a harmony remote. If I wait for the harmony to complete its start and then click the equivalent to the menu button on the Apple remote the picture appears a couple seconds later. I am using HDMI 2 out on the XMC2 and I have the Sony set to enhanced. I think it is the handshake from appletv hdr that causes the black screen. Clicking the menu button on the remote seems to kick it in gear If my AppleTV is set to SDR I don’t get the black screen it displays the picture on start up
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Post by thxultra on Jun 10, 2020 13:40:17 GMT -5
My AppleTV thru XMC2 tends to be a black screen once things boot up. I also use a harmony remote. If I wait for the harmony to complete its start and then click the equivalent to the menu button on the Apple remote the picture appears a couple seconds later. I am using HDMI 2 out on the XMC2 and I have the Sony set to enhanced. I think it is the handshake from appletv hdr that causes the black screen. Clicking the menu button on the remote seems to kick it in gear My ATV does this as well with my XMC-2. I do notice the light on the front of the apple tv is off until I hit the menu button so seems like the apple tv is in sleep mode and this wakes it up. I wonder if other processors send something over hdmi when they switch to that input that "wakes" the apple tv.
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Post by davidl81 on Jun 10, 2020 13:45:57 GMT -5
My AppleTV thru XMC2 tends to be a black screen once things boot up. I also use a harmony remote. If I wait for the harmony to complete its start and then click the equivalent to the menu button on the Apple remote the picture appears a couple seconds later. I am using HDMI 2 out on the XMC2 and I have the Sony set to enhanced. I think it is the handshake from appletv hdr that causes the black screen. Clicking the menu button on the remote seems to kick it in gear My ATV does this as well with my XMC-2. I do notice the light on the front of the apple tv is off until I hit the menu button so seems like the apple tv is in sleep mode and this wakes it up. I wonder if other processors send something over hdmi when they switch to that input that "wakes" the apple tv. I have the same issue, and I think it has something to do with the Harmony not being able to turn off or turn on the Apple TV. I guess you could add a button press into the start up sequence on the Harmony (say press menu on Apple TV as the last programmed command?)
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jun 10, 2020 13:57:35 GMT -5
My AppleTV thru XMC2 tends to be a black screen once things boot up. I also use a harmony remote. If I wait for the harmony to complete its start and then click the equivalent to the menu button on the Apple remote the picture appears a couple seconds later. I am using HDMI 2 out on the XMC2 and I have the Sony set to enhanced. I think it is the handshake from appletv hdr that causes the black screen. Clicking the menu button on the remote seems to kick it in gear My ATV does this as well with my XMC-2. I do notice the light on the front of the apple tv is off until I hit the menu button so seems like the apple tv is in sleep mode and this wakes it up. I wonder if other processors send something over hdmi when they switch to that input that "wakes" the apple tv. If presented with a blank screen when booting up with ATV selected, all that's needed is to: Wake up the ATV Then after it has booted, maybe 15 seconds, hit the ATV remote's Menu button 2 or 3 times to get the picture to refresh.
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Post by foggy1956 on Jun 10, 2020 14:33:09 GMT -5
If not already doing so, try using HDMI Out 2 from your unit to the TV. Also, as mentioned earlier, make sure the Input on your Sony TV is set to Enhanced. Steve Why HDMI Out 2? Well that worked. But, why would you make the outputs different? What am I getting or missing with Output 2. Check out the thingy called the owners manual
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Post by alhull on Jun 10, 2020 21:59:22 GMT -5
If not already doing so, try using HDMI Out 2 from your unit to the TV. Also, as mentioned earlier, make sure the Input on your Sony TV is set to Enhanced. Steve Why HDMI Out 2? Well that worked. But, why would you make the outputs different? What am I getting or missing with Output 2. I had the same issue getting my Roku 4 and my Blu-ray player video to always come up when changing inputs whenI had the output to my LG OLED tv using the XMC-2 HDMI-1 Output. Merely switching the output to use HDMI-2 (primary out per the manual) fixed all the issues. Now it comes up every time without fail. When starting things up, I always turn on my TV first, and then the XMC-2. I'm very happy with the XMC-2 and can't wait to get our Dirac upgrade.
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 10, 2020 22:34:03 GMT -5
If anyone with TV problems has a Harmony Hub based remote, you might try the relatively new Bluetooth enabled driver, it more closely emulates the Apple remote. You can load it as another device and then either create a new activity or modify the old one. I think you enter Harmony Pro for the manufacturer, and BT Apple TV 4 as the model. You’ll also have to do a Bluetooth pairing, I’ve generally had better results with it, but can’t guarantee it will fix your black screen issues.
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zestychicken
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Post by zestychicken on Jun 10, 2020 22:52:25 GMT -5
HDMI 2 is considered the primary HDMI output on the XMC-2/RMC It is also the one with ARC capability. On a similar note, connect the Emotiva to the primary (ARC) input of your TV Ah great. Well where would I have found that information? I mean, why make HDMI Out 2 the primary? Seems counter-intuitive. Of course I use HDMI input 3 on my TV since its the one with ARC so it's not like Emotiva is the only one with this issue. However, Sony does a pretty good job of telling you which one to use.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jun 10, 2020 23:16:36 GMT -5
HDMI 2 is considered the primary HDMI output on the XMC-2/RMC It is also the one with ARC capability. On a similar note, connect the Emotiva to the primary (ARC) input of your TV Ah great. Well where would I have found that information? I mean, why make HDMI Out 2 the primary? Seems counter-intuitive. Of course I use HDMI input 3 on my TV since its the one with ARC so it's not like Emotiva is the only one with this issue. However, Sony does a pretty good job of telling you which one to use. Both HDMI outputs are identical in performance, however, HDMI-2 also has CEC/ARC. So the fact that your problem cleared up when connected to the CEC/ARC output would suggest that something in your component chain likes what HDMI-2 has. The HDMI Inputs and Outputs info is on Page 70 of the manual. I use HDMI-1 Output because I do not want any component to even think about using CEC or ARC. My ATV4K kept mysteriously re-enabling CEC when it updated automatically, which would then include my projector in its evil scheme and go to sleep after 30 minutes. It took me two weeks to discover what was going on the first time it happened. It hasn't happened in over a year and a half. but still . . .
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Post by Thunderduck on Jun 10, 2020 23:18:56 GMT -5
HDMI 2 is considered the primary HDMI output on the XMC-2/RMC It is also the one with ARC capability. On a similar note, connect the Emotiva to the primary (ARC) input of your TV Ah great. Well where would I have found that information? I mean, why make HDMI Out 2 the primary? Seems counter-intuitive. Of course I use HDMI input 3 on my TV since its the one with ARC so it's not like Emotiva is the only one with this issue. However, Sony does a pretty good job of telling you which one to use. 2. HDMI Outputs (2) Each HDMI output is HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2. HDMI Output 2 is considered to be the primary output, and is both ARC and CEC enabled. The above is on page 70 of the printed manual. I believe if you downloaded and saved the manual it would show as page 76. Anyway, this is the only reference I could find in regards to the outputs. Regards, Steve EDIT: ttocs beat me to it
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Post by KeithL on Jun 11, 2020 0:10:45 GMT -5
It is also printed on the panel back of the RMC-1 itself - right next to the HDMI 2 Output connector.
Every manufacturer seems to choose a different connector - for various reasons. I believe we chose the output nearest the end of the chassis as the primary input.
(On the OneConnect box that is attached to my Samsung TV the ARC input is HDMI 4.)
Ah great. Well where would I have found that information? I mean, why make HDMI Out 2 the primary? Seems counter-intuitive. Of course I use HDMI input 3 on my TV since its the one with ARC so it's not like Emotiva is the only one with this issue. However, Sony does a pretty good job of telling you which one to use. 2. HDMI Outputs (2) Each HDMI output is HDMI 2.0b and HDCP 2.2. HDMI Output 2 is considered to be the primary output, and is both ARC and CEC enabled. The above is on page 70 of the printed manual. I believe if you downloaded and saved the manual it would show as page 76. Anyway, this is the only reference I could find in regards to the outputs. Regards, Steve EDIT: ttocs beat me to it
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Post by KeithL on Jun 11, 2020 0:34:06 GMT -5
We may be splitting terminology semantics here... but... as far as I know... according to the official description... The Dolby Atmos decoder (renderer) is considered to be an entirely separate thing from the Dolby Surround Upmixer...
Dolby Atmos content is decoded by the Dolby Atmos Decoder.. which renders everything to its proper location...
The obvious inference is that the Dolby Atmos renderer is going to decode Dolby Atmos content exactly as it is intended to be rendered... And, so, there would be nothing that the Dolby Surround Upmixer could contribute to playing Dolby Atmos content... The Dolby Surround Upmixer is only used for NON-Atmos content...
And its purpose is to upmix non-Atmos content into something that can take full advantage of your Atmos setup...
They see no reason why you would want to apply the DSU to content that has already been properly rendered by Dolby Atmos.
As I've said before... Nowhere does Dolby Labs claim that their goal is to give you as many options as possible... The goal of the system is to use your specific system to render Dolby Atmos content as accurately as possible to the producer's intent... Therefore, when the Atmos metadata is present, they prefer handle everything according to the instructions it contains... (And there's no place in there for the DSU.)
I have only ever had firmware 1.10 I have only ever had 7.1 Speakers
(except for the brief time I used the XMC-2’s Font Wide channels to bi-amp The L&R Fronts, but that confuses the XMC-2 into thinking it is in more than 7.1 and tries to engage Dolby and DTS upmixers for 7.1 Audio in a 7.1 system, so I abandoned the built in bi-amping) (just as I abandoned any and all bitstreaming of DTS to the XMC-2 to circumvent any Possibility of DTS Neural:X Activity) I use "Auto" for my default "5.1 Surround mode" (which means multichannel >stereo rather than 5.1) in the input setup and I still see "DD Atmos" all the time, even for some Blu-rays where the back case doesn’t mention Atmos but calls it TrueHD. I can’t recall that I have ever seen a stream detected as Dolby TrueHD 7.1 , only 5.1 or Atmos Yes. Confirmed. It is being reported as “TrueHD” but the Atmos Surround Mode is activated for 7.1 audio from 7.1 TrueHD Even in a 7.2 system, for Atmos Bitstreamed sources, "DD Atmos" is displayed on the XMC-2 as the Surround Mode (and Direct and Auto are my only non stereo options to select manually) , although the Audio "source" is displayed as "DD TrueHD" (No 7.1 mentioned, although it is 7.1) (TrueHD 5.1 gets “Dolby Surround” implemented automatically (which is good)) - 4K from HTPC with bitstreamed audio, and 1080P from OPPO BDP105 with bitstreamed audio. I have also confirmed that a non Atmos TrueHD 7.1 source is displayed as "DD TrueHD 7.1" and the Surround Auto mode is Correctly displayed as "Surround" because no upmixer is needed. I note from your earlier post Keith that the Atmos mixer may need to be enabled to correctly render an Atmos Tracy to 7.1 if the metadata specifies this.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 11, 2020 1:16:25 GMT -5
Thank you.... and very well said...
A device like the RMC-1 is incredibly complex... And, in many situations, including Dirac Live, we are dependent on deliveries from other vendors...
And, even when things are under our control, we do have limited resources, which is sometimes a factor.
And, believe it or not, we strongly prefer to ship products when they actually work, rather than "on schedule".
It would be much easier for us to simply tell you: "We'll let you know when it's done and ready to ship... so stop asking." However, whenever we say that, we get bombarded with endless complaints about "not being transparent". So we do our best to make an educated estimate about when we'll be able to deliver each product.
It would also be easier if this was like government contracts in the old days.... - You've agreed to buy an RMC-1. We will delver it on January 1 and we expect it to cost $5k...
- We agree to pay you a $100 penalty for every day that it's late. - HOWEVER, that price was only an estimate, and you are agreeing to pay the final bill, whatever it comes out to be, on delivery. (And, like all those fighter planes and aircraft carriers, it would probably end up costing you five or ten times what we "promised"...)
We think we've reached an acceptable compromise between those two unacceptable extremes... And we think most of our customers agree...
It is truly disturbing how often dates are missed with no sense of care about the customer. It is unfortunate that we can't receive an update here. I guess we could all agree to call and ask instead of a 5 minute update here. Someone do the math on the work interruption and productivity loss of answering a few hundred phone calls over the next few days to ask about Dirac's status. I won't drone on about my own software delivery experience, but like 30 years of some development and mostly QA, testing, leading and training scrum teams ... and the one question nobody can definitively answer is "when will it be done". It's just the way it is. "Agile" methodologies and team structures have evolved to be the most predictable ... but still. So often it comes down to there being known bugs and unknown bugs, and it's either shipable or unshipable, and you weigh the cost of remediation against the cost of delay. In my experience, literally lives and property could be affected. In our case here, we can get really good sound with PEQ in the interim, and nobody is going to die. And, Emotiva has other products in the pipeline and doesn't have unlimited software resources. They have to also weigh the cost of delay of other products. No doubt the extra effort to get Dirac done was unplanned and unknowable. Believe me, rushing the development/testing process causes more bugs. Best to wait until it's tested well enough to basically work, and then take firmware updates to tweak some features.
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KeithL
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Post by KeithL on Jun 11, 2020 1:44:27 GMT -5
The problem is that you are looking for a simple answer to a complex situation.... (It's like asking: "Is Ford aware that sometimes their cars fail to start when you turn the key?")
We are quite aware that, when you reboot one of our processors, sometimes it may fail to get a proper network address. We have also received reports that sometimes a previously working network connection seems to "stop working". The problem is that "getting a network address" is not a simple thing. It is actually a very complex process, involving several devices, which can go wrong in many different ways.
One very simple reason this may occur is that our Ethernet port takes several seconds to reset (it's a hardware limitation). So, if you power off your processor, and power it back on in ten seconds, the Ethernet port probably won't work.
The solution to this is to make sure that, if you power your processor off, you leave it off for at least thirty seconds before turning it back on.
Another possible cause falls under the heading of "random routing issues". This is the one where, quite often, fully rebooting your router or cable modem will solve a wide variety of odd network problems. This usually involves devices that have what appear to be valid network addresses but still "can't seem to see each other".
(A cable modem or router is also an amazingly complex device.. and sometimes they start to act oddly... and need a reset.)
We have also noticed that certain types of heavy network traffic occasionally seem to cause our Ethernet port to malfunction. And, once we succeed in figuring out why, we'll fix it... but it doesn't happen very often, which makes it difficult to track down and fix.
It's also possible that, when some error occurs elsewhere in our programming, it causes the address to be lost, after being successfully acquired . This is also something that we are investigating... and will fix if we can confirm how and why it is occurring.
From what AudioHTIT stated, and I agree, sometimes assigning a static address will help. (This bypasses the automatic addressing scheme entirely... but introduces the potential for manually assigning an incorrect or conflicting address.)
(If you manually assign an address to a device, and your DHCP server assigns that address to another device, both will act very erratically.)
This could suggest an issue with the DHCP mechanism in the processor that requests addresses... But it could also suggest one of several issues with the network hardware that assigns and keeps track of those addresses. (Many home networks are not properly configured, which can result in address conflicts, failure to assign addresses, and other routing issues.)
I have always used a reserved address with the XMC-1 and now with the RMC-1, though it’s a good practice I do with all my equipment, it does not solve this problem. There are times you will start up the processor from a cold boot and have no NIC link, there are times you’ll have a link but no service, and times it will work fine, and then when you do something ‘difficult’ (like play a UHD disk) it will lose service. Sometimes when things get ‘simple’ again, it might come back, but once you lose the link light (on the back) you have to do a switch off cold boot to get it back. While it could be hardware, I expect (and hope) it’s not. Emo is aware of the problem and know it needs to be fixed. I can use a static IP address. But I don't think that it is the root cause of this problem. My problems are exactly as "AudioHTIT" stated. Only Keith can answer if it is a known problem or not.
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 11, 2020 4:19:49 GMT -5
Keith, could you comment on the bi-amp through the front wide outputs? I get no sound through them when playing Reference Stereo, unless I enter speaker setup and switch enhanced bass on or off. Now when testing I noticed that EVEN THOUGH RMC says I’m using Reference Stereo it does playback from ALL speakers when I tick or untick the enhanced bass.
Front bi-amp does not appear on the trigger setup for speakers. I guess the reason being it should activate automatically?
Turned off my subs temporarily (in setup), still no go. No bi-amp signal goes out when in Reference Stereo.
Stereo mode works however. Tried when the subs are turned off. I get full bass from my large front speakers.
While playing I enter the setup and activate my subs again. Nothings happens. Then I deactivate the Enhanced bass, and I get output from all speakers again. It’s like you have a default sound mode that’s used inside the speaker setup. It gets changed back to Reference Stereo when I exit speaker setup.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 11, 2020 5:30:25 GMT -5
The problem is that you are looking for a simple answer to a complex situation.... (It's like asking: "Is Ford aware that sometimes their cars fail to start when you turn the key?")
We are quite aware that, when you reboot one of our processors, sometimes it may fail to get a proper network address. We have also received reports that sometimes a previously working network connection seems to "stop working". The problem is that "getting a network address" is not a simple thing. It is actually a very complex process, involving several devices, which can go wrong in many different ways.
One very simple reason this may occur is that our Ethernet port takes several seconds to reset (it's a hardware limitation). So, if you power off your processor, and power it back on in ten seconds, the Ethernet port probably won't work.
The solution to this is to make sure that, if you power your processor off, you leave it off for at least thirty seconds before turning it back on.
Another possible cause falls under the heading of "random routing issues". This is the one where, quite often, fully rebooting your router or cable modem will solve a wide variety of odd network problems. This usually involves devices that have what appear to be valid network addresses but still "can't seem to see each other".
(A cable modem or router is also an amazingly complex device.. and sometimes they start to act oddly... and need a reset.)
We have also noticed that certain types of heavy network traffic occasionally seem to cause our Ethernet port to malfunction. And, once we succeed in figuring out why, we'll fix it... but it doesn't happen very often, which makes it difficult to track down and fix.
It's also possible that, when some error occurs elsewhere in our programming, it causes the address to be lost, after being successfully acquired . This is also something that we are investigating... and will fix if we can confirm how and why it is occurring.
From what AudioHTIT stated, and I agree, sometimes assigning a static address will help. (This bypasses the automatic addressing scheme entirely... but introduces the potential for manually assigning an incorrect or conflicting address.)
(If you manually assign an address to a device, and your DHCP server assigns that address to another device, both will act very erratically.)
This could suggest an issue with the DHCP mechanism in the processor that requests addresses... But it could also suggest one of several issues with the network hardware that assigns and keeps track of those addresses. (Many home networks are not properly configured, which can result in address conflicts, failure to assign addresses, and other routing issues.)
I can use a static IP address. But I don't think that it is the root cause of this problem. My problems are exactly as "AudioHTIT" stated. Only Keith can answer if it is a known problem or not. Some of us believe this is not complicated or complex. If you want to use expectations and theory from the 60s, sure... But come on Keith, it is a network port. It's DHCP. These are nowadays fundamentally elementary and super simple things to implement and figure out. Secondly, you really create an opening for extreme criticism and backlash when you make some of your analogies. Ford? The microscopic percentage of this scenario happening? You're really opening the door for some of us very frustrated customers to dissect and dress down a comment like this comparing how each company handles issues and customer service. I know you meant no harm, but wow. Good morning!
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Post by megash0n on Jun 11, 2020 5:38:02 GMT -5
Thank you.... and very well said...
A device like the RMC-1 is incredibly complex... And, in many situations, including Dirac Live, we are dependent on deliveries from other vendors...
And, even when things are under our control, we do have limited resources, which is sometimes a factor.
And, believe it or not, we strongly prefer to ship products when they actually work, rather than "on schedule".
It would be much easier for us to simply tell you: "We'll let you know when it's done and ready to ship... so stop asking." However, whenever we say that, we get bombarded with endless complaints about "not being transparent". So we do our best to make an educated estimate about when we'll be able to deliver each product.
It would also be easier if this was like government contracts in the old days.... - You've agreed to buy an RMC-1. We will delver it on January 1 and we expect it to cost $5k...
- We agree to pay you a $100 penalty for every day that it's late. - HOWEVER, that price was only an estimate, and you are agreeing to pay the final bill, whatever it comes out to be, on delivery. (And, like all those fighter planes and aircraft carriers, it would probably end up costing you five or ten times what we "promised"...)
We think we've reached an acceptable compromise between those two unacceptable extremes... And we think most of our customers agree...
I won't drone on about my own software delivery experience, but like 30 years of some development and mostly QA, testing, leading and training scrum teams ... and the one question nobody can definitively answer is "when will it be done". It's just the way it is. "Agile" methodologies and team structures have evolved to be the most predictable ... but still. So often it comes down to there being known bugs and unknown bugs, and it's either shipable or unshipable, and you weigh the cost of remediation against the cost of delay. In my experience, literally lives and property could be affected. In our case here, we can get really good sound with PEQ in the interim, and nobody is going to die. And, Emotiva has other products in the pipeline and doesn't have unlimited software resources. They have to also weigh the cost of delay of other products. No doubt the extra effort to get Dirac done was unplanned and unknowable. Believe me, rushing the development/testing process causes more bugs. Best to wait until it's tested well enough to basically work, and then take firmware updates to tweak some features. This entire post ignores the actual issue altogether, but I'm sick of complaining about it. Most see it. It's painfully obvious. But, you're right. We'll get it when we get it. More analogies though. With the 100 $ situation here, you'd be paying us to use your hardware at this point. What is needed is some leadership to hold teams accountable. But, I digress. My words on this public forum will make no difference whatsoever. I'm sure we'll all forget the pain once again when Dirac hits in Q3/Q4.
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cawgijoe
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Post by cawgijoe on Jun 11, 2020 6:08:40 GMT -5
HDMI 2 is considered the primary HDMI output on the XMC-2/RMC It is also the one with ARC capability. On a similar note, connect the Emotiva to the primary (ARC) input of your TV Ah great. Well where would I have found that information? I mean, why make HDMI Out 2 the primary? Seems counter-intuitive. Of course I use HDMI input 3 on my TV since its the one with ARC so it's not like Emotiva is the only one with this issue. However, Sony does a pretty good job of telling you which one to use. At least the problem is solved. That's a good thing.
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