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Post by marcl on Jun 11, 2020 6:40:32 GMT -5
We may be splitting terminology semantics here... but... as far as I know... according to the official description... The Dolby Atmos decoder (renderer) is considered to be an entirely separate thing from the Dolby Surround Upmixer...
Dolby Atmos content is decoded by the Dolby Atmos Decoder.. which renders everything to its proper location...
The obvious inference is that the Dolby Atmos renderer is going to decode Dolby Atmos content exactly as it is intended to be rendered... And, so, there would be nothing that the Dolby Surround Upmixer could contribute to playing Dolby Atmos content... The Dolby Surround Upmixer is only used for NON-Atmos content...
And its purpose is to upmix non-Atmos content into something that can take full advantage of your Atmos setup...
They see no reason why you would want to apply the DSU to content that has already been properly rendered by Dolby Atmos.
As I've said before... Nowhere does Dolby Labs claim that their goal is to give you as many options as possible... The goal of the system is to use your specific system to render Dolby Atmos content as accurately as possible to the producer's intent... Therefore, when the Atmos metadata is present, they prefer handle everything according to the instructions it contains... (And there's no place in there for the DSU.)
Yes. Confirmed. It is being reported as “TrueHD” but the Atmos Surround Mode is activated for 7.1 audio from 7.1 TrueHD Even in a 7.2 system, for Atmos Bitstreamed sources, "DD Atmos" is displayed on the XMC-2 as the Surround Mode (and Direct and Auto are my only non stereo options to select manually) , although the Audio "source" is displayed as "DD TrueHD" (No 7.1 mentioned, although it is 7.1) (TrueHD 5.1 gets “Dolby Surround” implemented automatically (which is good)) - 4K from HTPC with bitstreamed audio, and 1080P from OPPO BDP105 with bitstreamed audio. I have also confirmed that a non Atmos TrueHD 7.1 source is displayed as "DD TrueHD 7.1" and the Surround Auto mode is Correctly displayed as "Surround" because no upmixer is needed. I note from your earlier post Keith that the Atmos mixer may need to be enabled to correctly render an Atmos Tracy to 7.1 if the metadata specifies this. Thanks Keith, that makes sense. But two questions: 1 - How about removing the restriction that DSU can't be used to upmix DTS 5.1, and DTS Neural:X can't be used to upmix Dolby Digital 5.1? 2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Thanks!
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Post by megash0n on Jun 11, 2020 6:57:31 GMT -5
We may be splitting terminology semantics here... but... as far as I know... according to the official description... The Dolby Atmos decoder (renderer) is considered to be an entirely separate thing from the Dolby Surround Upmixer...
Dolby Atmos content is decoded by the Dolby Atmos Decoder.. which renders everything to its proper location...
The obvious inference is that the Dolby Atmos renderer is going to decode Dolby Atmos content exactly as it is intended to be rendered... And, so, there would be nothing that the Dolby Surround Upmixer could contribute to playing Dolby Atmos content... The Dolby Surround Upmixer is only used for NON-Atmos content...
And its purpose is to upmix non-Atmos content into something that can take full advantage of your Atmos setup...
They see no reason why you would want to apply the DSU to content that has already been properly rendered by Dolby Atmos.
As I've said before... Nowhere does Dolby Labs claim that their goal is to give you as many options as possible... The goal of the system is to use your specific system to render Dolby Atmos content as accurately as possible to the producer's intent... Therefore, when the Atmos metadata is present, they prefer handle everything according to the instructions it contains... (And there's no place in there for the DSU.)
Thanks Keith, that makes sense. But two questions: 1 - How about removing the restriction that DSU can't be used to upmix DTS 5.1, and DTS Neural:X can't be used to upmix Dolby Digital 5.1? 2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Thanks! I spent roughly an hour yesterday reading through many Dolby licensing documents and didn't find a single instance of these restrictions. It would be helpful for those who care to have a PDF link of said restrictions that very few in the industry follow.
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Post by steelman1991 on Jun 11, 2020 7:18:34 GMT -5
Thanks Keith, that makes sense. But two questions: 1 - How about removing the restriction that DSU can't be used to upmix DTS 5.1, and DTS Neural:X can't be used to upmix Dolby Digital 5.1? 2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Thanks! I spent roughly an hour yesterday reading through many Dolby licensing documents and didn't find a single instance of these restrictions. It would be helpful for those who care to have a PDF link of said restrictions that very few in the industry follow.
Not a link to a PDF, but a link to Dolby website announcing the uplifting of the restriction.
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Post by marcl on Jun 11, 2020 7:25:27 GMT -5
A PEQ observation, in the pre-Dirac era ... If you need to cross over your surrounds or center channel higher than 80Hz (for example small surrounds or ATMOS tops that have to cross at 100 or 120; or a Magnepan CC5 center that has to cross at 200Hz):
1 - If you send LFE (output 4) from REW, the processor rolls off the LFE above 80Hz at 12db/octave. If you make your measurement this way in order to create subwoofer PEQ filters in REW, you will not get correct results above 80Hz.
2 - To accurately create subwoofer PEQ filters for response from 80Hz up to 200Hz, you have to measure the subwoofer output using some OTHER channel, set to Small with crossover set to 200Hz, and that channel's amp turned OFF.
For example: Configure Fronts to Small, crossover 200Hz, turn off the Front amp. In REW, measure the Front Left channel (output 1). Processor will send <200Hz to the sub, and >200Hz will not play because the amp is off. You will see an accurate measurement from the low limit of the sub to it's upper limit (max 200Hz). Create PEQ filters from this measurement and load to the subwoofer PEQ channel. Repeat the measurement using the Left channel with amp off to confirm that the subwoofer correction was successful. If you now measure the LFE (output 4) with REW, you will see corrected response up to 80Hz followed by a 12db/octave ramp down toward 200Hz.
(p.s. no, my subs don't do so well up to 200Hz; I use miniDSP on Center Sub output to combine output of two subs <45Hz, and a Magnepan DWM 45-200Hz). (p.p.s. if you use Enhanced Bass to run Large speakers full range and also cross to the subwoofer, measure those large speakers in that mode to see the combined response with the sub. Then create that speaker's PEQ filter from that measurement.)
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Post by dwander on Jun 11, 2020 7:43:02 GMT -5
A PEQ observation, in the pre-Dirac era ... If you need to cross over your surrounds or center channel higher than 80Hz (for example small surrounds or ATMOS tops that have to cross at 100 or 120; or a Magnepan CC5 center that has to cross at 200Hz): 1 - If you send LFE (output 4) from REW, the processor rolls off the LFE above 80Hz at 12db/octave. If you make your measurement this way in order to create subwoofer PEQ filters in REW, you will not get correct results above 80Hz. 2 - To accurately create subwoofer PEQ filters for response from 80Hz up to 200Hz, you have to measure the subwoofer output using some OTHER channel, set to Small with crossover set to 200Hz, and that channel's amp turned OFF. For example: Configure Fronts to Small, crossover 200Hz, turn off the Front amp. In REW, measure the Front Left channel (output 1). Processor will send <200Hz to the sub, and >200Hz will not play because the amp is off. You will see an accurate measurement from the low limit of the sub to it's upper limit (max 200Hz). Create PEQ filters from this measurement and load to the subwoofer PEQ channel. Repeat the measurement using the Left channel with amp off to confirm that the subwoofer correction was successful. If you now measure the LFE (output 4) with REW, you will see corrected response up to 80Hz followed by a 12db/octave ramp down toward 200Hz. (p.s. no, my subs don't do so well up to 200Hz; I use miniDSP on Center Sub output to combine output of two subs <45Hz, and a Magnepan DWM 45-200Hz). (p.p.s. if you use Enhanced Bass to run Large speakers full range and also cross to the subwoofer, measure those large speakers in that mode to see the combined response with the sub. Then create that speaker's PEQ filter from that measurement.) This is interesting. I uploaded filters for the center sub for the first time yesterday and the measured response was not much different, if at all, from the initial measurement. I also used the minidsp for 4 subs. And I took my measurements using LFE in REW. So I will try this and see if the results differ.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 11, 2020 8:00:43 GMT -5
I spent roughly an hour yesterday reading through many Dolby licensing documents and didn't find a single instance of these restrictions. It would be helpful for those who care to have a PDF link of said restrictions that very few in the industry follow.
Not a link to a PDF, but a link to Dolby website announcing the uplifting of the restriction.
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me.
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Post by marcl on Jun 11, 2020 8:03:29 GMT -5
A PEQ observation, in the pre-Dirac era ... If you need to cross over your surrounds or center channel higher than 80Hz (for example small surrounds or ATMOS tops that have to cross at 100 or 120; or a Magnepan CC5 center that has to cross at 200Hz): 1 - If you send LFE (output 4) from REW, the processor rolls off the LFE above 80Hz at 12db/octave. If you make your measurement this way in order to create subwoofer PEQ filters in REW, you will not get correct results above 80Hz. 2 - To accurately create subwoofer PEQ filters for response from 80Hz up to 200Hz, you have to measure the subwoofer output using some OTHER channel, set to Small with crossover set to 200Hz, and that channel's amp turned OFF. For example: Configure Fronts to Small, crossover 200Hz, turn off the Front amp. In REW, measure the Front Left channel (output 1). Processor will send <200Hz to the sub, and >200Hz will not play because the amp is off. You will see an accurate measurement from the low limit of the sub to it's upper limit (max 200Hz). Create PEQ filters from this measurement and load to the subwoofer PEQ channel. Repeat the measurement using the Left channel with amp off to confirm that the subwoofer correction was successful. If you now measure the LFE (output 4) with REW, you will see corrected response up to 80Hz followed by a 12db/octave ramp down toward 200Hz. (p.s. no, my subs don't do so well up to 200Hz; I use miniDSP on Center Sub output to combine output of two subs <45Hz, and a Magnepan DWM 45-200Hz). (p.p.s. if you use Enhanced Bass to run Large speakers full range and also cross to the subwoofer, measure those large speakers in that mode to see the combined response with the sub. Then create that speaker's PEQ filter from that measurement.) This is interesting. I uploaded filters for the center sub for the first time yesterday and the measured response was not much different, if at all, from the initial measurement. I also used the minidsp for 4 subs. And I took my measurements using LFE in REW. So I will try this and see if the results differ. A couple things: If you're not running firmware 1.10, subwoofer PEQ does not work. If you are running 1.10, after you load the filters you have to change to the other Preset and back - or you may actually have to do a hard/cold reboot - to get the filters to load. The key thing is if you need bass management above 80Hz you have to make the filters the way I describe. Up to 80Hz you would see no difference.
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Lonnie
Emo Staff
admin
Pay no attention to the man behind the curtain
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Post by Lonnie on Jun 11, 2020 8:09:36 GMT -5
We may be splitting terminology semantics here... but... as far as I know... according to the official description... The Dolby Atmos decoder (renderer) is considered to be an entirely separate thing from the Dolby Surround Upmixer...
Dolby Atmos content is decoded by the Dolby Atmos Decoder.. which renders everything to its proper location...
The obvious inference is that the Dolby Atmos renderer is going to decode Dolby Atmos content exactly as it is intended to be rendered... And, so, there would be nothing that the Dolby Surround Upmixer could contribute to playing Dolby Atmos content... The Dolby Surround Upmixer is only used for NON-Atmos content...
And its purpose is to upmix non-Atmos content into something that can take full advantage of your Atmos setup... They see no reason why you would want to apply the DSU to content that has already been properly rendered by Dolby Atmos.
As I've said before... Nowhere does Dolby Labs claim that their goal is to give you as many options as possible... The goal of the system is to use your specific system to render Dolby Atmos content as accurately as possible to the producer's intent... Therefore, when the Atmos metadata is present, they prefer handle everything according to the instructions it contains... (And there's no place in there for the DSU.)
Thanks Keith, that makes sense. But two questions: 1 - How about removing the restriction that DSU can't be used to upmix DTS 5.1, and DTS Neural:X can't be used to upmix Dolby Digital 5.1? 2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Thanks! Just to clarify a few things here. Dolby Atmos content is embedded within the meta data of a TrueHD stream. So whether it shows TrueHD or Atmos as the incoming streams is pretty much a non-issue because they are the same thing. Yes, the renderer is one thing in and of itself. The Upmixer is a post processing algorithm that is separate. The Upmixer can be applied to an Atmos stream for certain applications if desired or needed. Since their are a few companies that insist the rendered channels be pinned, using the Upmixer to spread the effects might be a desired outcome. As for removing the restrictions to apply Dolby to DTS and visa versa, we are working on that but it is not an easy task. Way back in the start of this project we built in a ton of interlocks to prevent this from happing because that was required. Backing all of them out is no easy task and will take some time. Lonnie
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Post by markc on Jun 11, 2020 8:23:26 GMT -5
2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Dolby Surround most definitely works to upmix PCM on my XMC-1 I am avoiding the Neural:X issues by converting all audio to PCM within my Blu-ray player and only bitstreaming any Dolby plus just 7.1 DTS from my JRiver HTPC, but not stereo or 5.1 DTS - that goes as PCM I have my default 5.1 Surround mode set to Dolby Surround in each input that I want upmixing to 7.1. Absolutely reliably, I get 5.1 to 7.1 upmixing of all Dolby (Stereo and 5.1) and of all PCM 2.0 through 5.1, without issue I'd prefer to Bitstream DTS to the XMC-2 (That is what a Surround Sound Processor is meant to do - process the normal accepted formats!) and have it upmix DTS to 7.1, but Neural:X can't do it without a 6dB volume decrease and quite possibly some issue over aberrant sound extraction affecting the sound.
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richb
Sensei
Oppo Beta Group - Audioholics Reviewer
Posts: 875
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Post by richb on Jun 11, 2020 8:24:19 GMT -5
Thanks Keith, that makes sense. But two questions: 1 - How about removing the restriction that DSU can't be used to upmix DTS 5.1, and DTS Neural:X can't be used to upmix Dolby Digital 5.1? 2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Thanks! Just to clarify a few things here. ... As for removing the restrictions to apply Dolby to DTS and visa versa, we are working on that but it is not an easy task. Way back in the start of this project we built in a ton of interlocks to prevent this from happing because that was required. Backing all of them out is no easy task and will take some time. Lonnie It may be a PIA, but sooner or later Emotiva must remove this restriction that is not present in competing models. The HTP-1, SDP-55, and AV40 have no such restriction. I understand that Auro is not in the cards (for now anyway), but Emotiva is not playing with a full-deck here - Rich
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Post by markc on Jun 11, 2020 8:31:33 GMT -5
Not a link to a PDF, but a link to Dolby website announcing the uplifting of the restriction.
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me. Keith acknowledged this several months ago. I distinctly remember him stating that when Emotiva wrote the code for the RMC-1, there was a definite Dolby (and possibly also DTS?) restriction on cross upmixing and, as part of the licensing agreement with Emotiva, they were not allowed to enable DSU on DTS sources. He was also aware that this licensing requirement had subsequently been relaxed with other manufacturers at least, but did not promise that Emotiva would be able to, or could commit to, rewriting the Emotiva code to allow it. I personally think it would nice to have the option, but I would far, far rather have a properly functioning Neural:X for DTS sources as well as a re-sort of speaker configuration setting so that both DTS:X and Neural:X use the height/top speakers sensibly and, also in speaker configuration settings, Bi-amping using wides is fixed (or removed, as it doesn't work)
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Post by megash0n on Jun 11, 2020 8:39:11 GMT -5
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me. Keith acknowledged this several months ago. I distinctly remember him stating that when Emotiva wrote the code for the RMC-1, there was a definite Dolby (and possibly also DTS?) restriction on cross upmixing and, as part of the licensing agreement with Emotiva, they were not allowed to enable DSU on DTS sources. He was also aware that this licensing requirement had subsequently been relaxed with other manufacturers at least, but did not promise that Emotiva would be able to, or could commit to, rewriting the Emotiva code to allow it. I personally think it would nice to have the option, but I would far, far rather have a properly functioning Neural:X for DTS sources as well as a re-sort of speaker configuration setting so that both DTS:X and Neural:X use the height/top speakers sensibly and, also in speaker configuration settings, Bi-amping using wides is fixed (or removed, as it doesn't work) Agree %100
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Post by marcl on Jun 11, 2020 8:43:07 GMT -5
2 - Neither upmixer works with PCM multichannel (FLAC, WAV or DSD delivered as PCM from a PC; or SACD delivered as PCM from a BD player). Is this related to the upmixers looking for only multichannel of their own "species"? If I send 5.1 music as PCM it doesn't upmix; but if I have JRiver encode it to Dolby Digital first, DSU will upmix. Dolby Surround most definitely works to upmix PCM on my XMC-1 I am avoiding the Neural:X issues by converting all audio to PCM within my Blu-ray player and only bitstreaming any Dolby plus just 7.1 DTS from my JRiver HTPC, but not stereo or 5.1 DTS - that goes as PCM I have my default 5.1 Surround mode set to Dolby Surround in each input that I want upmixing to 7.1. Absolutely reliably, I get 5.1 to 7.1 upmixing of all Dolby (Stereo and 5.1) and of all PCM 2.0 through 5.1, without issue I'd prefer to Bitstream DTS to the XMC-2 (That is what a Surround Sound Processor is meant to do - process the normal accepted formats!) and have it upmix DTS to 7.1, but Neural:X can't do it without a 6dB volume decrease and quite possibly some issue over aberrant sound extraction affecting the sound. It definitely worked on my XMC-1 also. But the situation for the XMC-2 is as I described. I wonder if I'm doing something different in JRiver, but the upmixer also does not work for multichannel SACD converted to PCM and sent via HDMI from my OPPO 205.
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Post by dwander on Jun 11, 2020 9:10:09 GMT -5
This is interesting. I uploaded filters for the center sub for the first time yesterday and the measured response was not much different, if at all, from the initial measurement. I also used the minidsp for 4 subs. And I took my measurements using LFE in REW. So I will try this and see if the results differ. A couple things: If you're not running firmware 1.10, subwoofer PEQ does not work. If you are running 1.10, after you load the filters you have to change to the other Preset and back - or you may actually have to do a hard/cold reboot - to get the filters to load. The key thing is if you need bass management above 80Hz you have to make the filters the way I describe. Up to 80Hz you would see no difference. The switching to preset 2 and back, does that apply to just the subwoofer or all filters? Bc the measured response on my other channels seemed to indicate that the filters were loaded. It’s possible that I’m wrong but it seemed like the HF roll off I added was there after uploading.
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KeithL
Administrator
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Post by KeithL on Jun 11, 2020 9:27:46 GMT -5
The way the menu and control system in our processors updates information can sometimes be quite complex. (For example, some updates take effect immediately, while others don't take effect until you exit the menu.)
Switching to the other preset, then back again, ensures that the filters you upload will be loaded immediately.
(There are other things that will cause the filters to load eventually ... but this is the way to make sure it happens when you expect it to.)
I would also like to take this opportunity to point something out... Especially when it comes to subwoofers... both room placement and interactions with the room itself can have a MAJOR effect on response. And, with some subwoofers, there may also be unexpected interactions with the crossover circuitry inside the sub itself.
Because of this, adjustments and corrections you make may often not have the exact results you expect in a particular situation. This is why we take measurements after a correction rather than simply assume that it will have the effect we expect. However it is also why measuring the actual response of a speaker, in a room, is NOT a good way to measure the electrical response of a filter.
If you want an accurate measurement of what a filter is doing the only way to get it is to measure the actual electrical output of the filter.
You do this by measuring the electrical output at the subwoofer output itself directly... This eliminates a whole bunch of variables, both known and unknown, including the sub itself, the room, the microphone, and the microphone preamp...
(REW should be capable of doing this sort of measurement... if you use the proper sort of connections... including a line level A/D converter.)
If your goal is to correct the response of a sub, in a room, then making corrections, and measuring the results, in the room, is a great way to do it... However, if your goal is to accurately measure what the filters themselves are doing, then acoustic measurements are NOT a good way to go about it... A couple things: If you're not running firmware 1.10, subwoofer PEQ does not work. If you are running 1.10, after you load the filters you have to change to the other Preset and back - or you may actually have to do a hard/cold reboot - to get the filters to load. The key thing is if you need bass management above 80Hz you have to make the filters the way I describe. Up to 80Hz you would see no difference. The switching to preset 2 and back, does that apply to just the subwoofer or all filters? Bc the measured response on my other channels seemed to indicate that the filters were loaded. It’s possible that I’m wrong but it seemed like the HF roll off I added was there after uploading.
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Post by steelman1991 on Jun 11, 2020 11:20:04 GMT -5
Not a link to a PDF, but a link to Dolby website announcing the uplifting of the restriction.
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me.
Not sure how much more conclusive you need that there was a restriction - that's directly from Dolby themselves? It was also widely reported throughout the internet - a quick Google search will bring up plenty evidence. They didn't change their mind willingly - they were legally challenged and had to relax the restriction AFAIR.
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Post by JKCashin on Jun 11, 2020 16:35:32 GMT -5
Maybe this is not the right place to ask, but if we do get Dirac bass management, then is there any reason to buy a subwoofer with fancy DSP features? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a sub that is very basic, and let the XMC/RMC processor do the processing?
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 11, 2020 17:28:36 GMT -5
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me. Keith acknowledged this several months ago. I distinctly remember him stating that when Emotiva wrote the code for the RMC-1, there was a definite Dolby (and possibly also DTS?) restriction on cross upmixing and, as part of the licensing agreement with Emotiva, they were not allowed to enable DSU on DTS sources. He was also aware that this licensing requirement had subsequently been relaxed with other manufacturers at least, but did not promise that Emotiva would be able to, or could commit to, rewriting the Emotiva code to allow it. I personally think it would nice to have the option, but I would far, far rather have a properly functioning Neural:X for DTS sources as well as a re-sort of speaker configuration setting so that both DTS:X and Neural:X use the height/top speakers sensibly and, also in speaker configuration settings, Bi-amping using wides is fixed (or removed, as it doesn't work) Marc, I found out by testing that bi=amping through the wides does work, but only through Stereo mode. Reference Stereo does not get the bi-amp copied signal, at all. I have not had time to test it with multi channel sources though. But would guess it works fine on any processed sound mode. Although, upmixing could be a separate issue... I agree 100% on the Neural:X, DTS:X/Atmos speaker setup and bi-amp all need to be fixed ASAP. For me that almost never use upmixing the restriction is not a priority, although I can understand it is for some.
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 11, 2020 17:38:55 GMT -5
Maybe this is not the right place to ask, but if we do get Dirac bass management, then is there any reason to buy a subwoofer with fancy DSP features? Wouldn't it make more sense to buy a sub that is very basic, and let the XMC/RMC processor do the processing? If you use subwoofers through a sound mode which do not use the PEQ you’ll not get the calibrated sound. For example DSD direct 5.1. However if you use the PEQ on (for example SVS) subs it will be available in any sound mode or even a 2ch stereo setup.
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 11, 2020 17:53:01 GMT -5
Interesting. While not conclusive, it sure does seem they are being far less strict than we've been led to believe. Or, they've changed their mind on being so strict. Hopefully this will also allow Emotiva some wiggle room to give us DRC All Off back. It is absolutely pointless at this time. Between TV broadcast, streaming services, and different consoles, none of this mess works as intended anyways. For example, I have to watch DTS movies at around -10 or 12, but most series on Netflix or Hulu I am at around -30 to -35. Seems like a large gap to me.
Not sure how much more conclusive you need that there was a restriction - that's directly from Dolby themselves? It was also widely reported throughout the internet - a quick Google search will bring up plenty evidence. They didn't change their mind willingly - they were legally challenged and had to relax the restriction AFAIR.
Although it seems no other manufacturer implemented this restriction. For example, Denon 8500 does not have it. Also it has the possibility of turning off Dialog Normalization. How come? They have released firmware both during and after the restriction(s) were active. Why are Emotiva the only ones that NEED to follow these ”restrictions”?
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