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Post by bblv on Jun 12, 2020 10:14:15 GMT -5
I agree that we should be understanding that life is different at this time. I'll be super simple about my ongoing, consistent complaint. Just set proper expectations. And, when you see you are going to miss the deadlines you speculate on, apologize and provide a new expectation in a timely manner... Not a month after missed deadline. Anyways, we all accept a different level of this. all your doing is filling these threads with moaning about how bad emotiva is, it doesnt help and having to navigate is getting old. i think most people here want that perfect processor but also want to civil and patient too. jm2c I think he's just saying he wants Dirac before 2021 and before the RMC-2 is announced.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 12, 2020 10:21:34 GMT -5
I agree that we should be understanding that life is different at this time. I'll be super simple about my ongoing, consistent complaint. Just set proper expectations. And, when you see you are going to miss the deadlines you speculate on, apologize and provide a new expectation in a timely manner... Not a month after missed deadline. Anyways, we all accept a different level of this. all your doing is filling these threads with moaning about how bad emotiva is, it doesnt help and having to navigate is getting old. i think most people here want that perfect processor but also want to civil and patient too. jm2c Thank you for the course correction.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 12, 2020 10:30:40 GMT -5
all your doing is filling these threads with moaning about how bad emotiva is, it doesnt help and having to navigate is getting old. i think most people here want that perfect processor but also want to civil and patient too. jm2c I think he's just saying he wants Dirac before 2021 and before the RMC-2 is announced. You know.. If I take out my frustrations about leadership and management of things.. What it really boils down to is what you just said. I do need to stop concerning myself with how other people choose to run their business. It's just difficult when you are buying that business's wares. I am concerned that, by the time we get day 1 promises delivered, we will be on the verge of a new HDMI board in order to process an 8k signal, etc etc. If history repeats itself, and let's pray it doesn't, that will be another year of struggle towards stability. A year after that, we could be looking at a new platform release. So, generically speaking, the useful life goes from 10 years down to 3 or 4. On top of this, the business side of the house will need a new product to sell. Very few make money by not selling new solutions. This new platform absolutely has the potential to be upgraded for a longer period of time depending on how modular the hardware really is and how modular/virtualized/etc the coding approach is. At any rate, this isn't me trying to be negative. I'm just responding to part of your assessment. Emotiva does a lot of great things well. My issues only lie with the customer service side of things.
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Post by Mikomill on Jun 12, 2020 10:49:29 GMT -5
I think he's just saying he wants Dirac before 2021 and before the RMC-2 is announced. You know.. If I take out my frustrations about leadership and management of things.. What it really boils down to is what you just said. I do need to stop concerning myself with how other people choose to run their business. It's just difficult when you are buying that business's wares. I am concerned that, by the time we get day 1 promises delivered, we will be on the verge of a new HDMI board in order to process an 8k signal, etc etc. If history repeats itself, and let's pray it doesn't, that will be another year of struggle towards stability. A year after that, we could be looking at a new platform release. So, generically speaking, the useful life goes from 10 years down to 3 or 4. On top of this, the business side of the house will need a new product to sell. Very few make money by not selling new solutions. This new platform absolutely has the potential to be upgraded for a longer period of time depending on how modular the hardware really is and how modular/virtualized/etc the coding approach is. At any rate, this isn't me trying to be negative. I'm just responding to part of your assessment. Emotiva does a lot of great things well. My issues only lie with the customer service side of things. ......so much for the course correction.
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LCSeminole
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Post by LCSeminole on Jun 12, 2020 11:09:29 GMT -5
I think he's just saying he wants Dirac before 2021 and before the RMC-2 is announced. You know.. If I take out my frustrations about leadership and management of things.. What it really boils down to is what you just said. I do need to stop concerning myself with how other people choose to run their business. It's just difficult when you are buying that business's wares. I am concerned that, by the time we get day 1 promises delivered, we will be on the verge of a new HDMI board in order to process an 8k signal, etc etc. If history repeats itself, and let's pray it doesn't, that will be another year of struggle towards stability. A year after that, we could be looking at a new platform release. So, generically speaking, the useful life goes from 10 years down to 3 or 4. On top of this, the business side of the house will need a new product to sell. Very few make money by not selling new solutions. This new platform absolutely has the potential to be upgraded for a longer period of time depending on how modular the hardware really is and how modular/virtualized/etc the coding approach is. At any rate, this isn't me trying to be negative. I'm just responding to part of your assessment. Emotiva does a lot of great things well. My issues only lie with the customer service side of things. MonsieurAl was relieved of his Lounge privileges for the same repetitious posting that you’re doing. Since you’re aware of what you are doing, consider this my one and only request to stop.
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 12, 2020 13:31:25 GMT -5
If you use subwoofers through a sound mode which do not use the PEQ you’ll not get the calibrated sound. For example DSD direct 5.1. However if you use the PEQ on (for example SVS) subs it will be available in any sound mode or even a 2ch stereo setup. There is a big potential downside of using sequential DSP on the sub AND on the Processor. Null node correction. Room bass nulls CANNOT be corrected by DSP parametric filters. The bass cancellation is a feature of the room. Sure, your sub DSP can apply a bit of PEQ to smooth out some of the null, but the danger is in trying to boost it too much as it simply won't boost. The subwoofer overworks to drive the cone too hard, but all to no avail as the increased output from the speaker cone is simply cancelled in the room null. Now, after the sub DSP has done some levelling for you, the Surround Sound Processor DSP/Dirac will STILL see a bass null at that exact same frequency, and the danger is that you may now get the SSP trying to apply a second parametric filter at exactly the same frequencies to try and smooth it out. This won't work, because nulls won't get boosted. However, now you are risking having the sub DSP trying to boost an already boosted area of the frequency spectrum (From the SSP PEQ), and clipping can occur. You should never have two PEQ filters overlapping and trying to boost missing frequencies, particularly the bass ones due to room nodes. Having two PEQ's sequentially in two different devices is probably more risky than seeing it all on one device. Yes, I agree. Having two different PEQ’s is not a good idea, especially if they do work on the same frequencies. My post was rather about the for or against subwoofers with built in DSP with PEQ. IMO it’s great to have PEQ in the subs if you use them in a 2ch+subs system, but maybe better to use a MiniDSP with Dirac.. I only have ONE PEQ setting on my subs. Before I used them to take down a pretty huge bump around 25hz I have. When firmware 1.10 arrived I turned it off on my subs. Now I implemented a complete measurement and got a pretty flat response from 18-120hz from both my subs together in my MLP. It does sound sooo much better now, more controlled and alot less rumblings around the room for small things. Music benefits enormously from this. Now using the subs when listening to music sounds like I have no subs, just deeper bass, more integrated into the sound.
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Post by dimora on Jun 12, 2020 14:18:18 GMT -5
When will DIRAC live be delivered? I saw a video in FaceBook/YouTube with Nick unboxing the kit, but there was no mention of when the kits are shipping, how to order a kit, etc. You seem to have missed this post from Lonnie; emotivalounge.proboards.com/post/1035013Logically it wont take long to assemble a simple Raspberry Pi module after Lonnie gets positive feedback [fingers x'ed] from beta testers which equates with him saying its a finished project You are correct, I did miss that. I don’t spend all my time on these forums, but yet I do want DIRAC as well as an RMC-1 balanced multi-subwoofer expansion module to allow me to control my (3) 18” subs so I do follow Emo’s Facebook posts and check in here about once every couple weeks. I still see no ship dates mentioned, so I still don’t know when I will get my kit. I also still don’t know what RMC-1 expansion modules will be built or when they will be available. That info on the Emo website product page would be helpful so I don’t have to sift through hundreds of posts.
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Post by hsamwel on Jun 12, 2020 14:21:26 GMT -5
I agree that we should be understanding that life is different at this time. I'll be super simple about my ongoing, consistent complaint. Just set proper expectations. And, when you see you are going to miss the deadlines you speculate on, apologize and provide a new expectation in a timely manner... Not a month after missed deadline. Anyways, we all accept a different level of this. all your doing is filling these threads with moaning about how bad emotiva is, it doesnt help and having to navigate is getting old. i think most people here want that perfect processor but also want to civil and patient too. jm2c You could say that.. But as Emotiva is active in these forums they could ”select” to answer some of his/our concerns. Not only post things about Atmos and DSD decoding/format.. Several subjects/problems have been ignored it seems. This could stop plenty of the ”moanings”.. For example the Neural:X issue has not really been acknowledged I think. Is it a known issue? Is it being worked on? Probably not as ”the angry french man” moaned about it almost a year ago. No one listen because of his problem with the language and repeated nagging. Also we do not know what Emotiva is working on as there’s no real bug report/list. This causes people to report the same things over and over again. It’s actually good practice to put out an official message or a press release if something is delayed, before the actual date. Not several weeks after or hidden in a forum. And if a delay happens continue to communicate on the progress regulary.. IMO! I have no problem with Dirac being delayed especially during these times. But getting info on why and a guesstimate on when it will be released should be communicated. Further delays, a new guesstimate and so on.. If no date can be given at the time then this should be communicated and present a new message when it can be.. Sorry for the rant, not trying bash Emotiva here.. Just like any business or person, there’s nothing or no one that’s perfect.. We all have things that we can do better. If no one tells you, nothing probably won’t change for the better.
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ttocs
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Post by ttocs on Jun 12, 2020 14:55:51 GMT -5
all your doing is filling these threads with moaning about how bad emotiva is, it doesnt help and having to navigate is getting old. i think most people here want that perfect processor but also want to civil and patient too. jm2c For example the Neural:X issue has not really been acknowledged I think. Is it a known issue? Is it being worked on? Probably not as ”the angry french man” moaned about it almost a year ago. Also we do not know what Emotiva is working on as there’s no real bug report/list. This causes people to report the same things over and over again. I posted a thread with a poll specifically for the Neural:X issues with hopes of having a repository for repeatable issues. This way Neural:X can have a dedicated conversation. It can be found at: emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57108/rmc-xmc-upmix-neural-issues
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Post by marcl on Jun 13, 2020 6:14:59 GMT -5
And we take a breath ...
Somehow ended up on Beethoven's 9th yesterday afternoon before going for a walk. With the theme of the last movement stuck in my head (then, AND all night!), I had an idea that makes me smile about this passionate, obsessive hobby that we have ... an idea that is obvious, now having thought of it, but amuses me in that I hadn't thought of it in over a year of using a miniDSP (first with XMC-1, now XMC-2). It may or may not work, and it's not that big a deal. What amuses me is every time I think "okay, that LAST tweak sounds great! ... NOW I'll just LISTEN for a few months" .... I get another idea! :-)
That's part of why we enjoy this sometimes frustrating business of engaging thousands of dollars worth of hardware and software for the purpose of vibrating air molecules!
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Post by AudioHTIT on Jun 13, 2020 12:01:09 GMT -5
For example the Neural:X issue has not really been acknowledged I think. Is it a known issue? Is it being worked on? Probably not as ”the angry french man” moaned about it almost a year ago. No one listen because of his problem with the language and repeated nagging. Also we do not know what Emotiva is working on as there’s no real bug report/list. This causes people to report the same things over and over again. This isn’t directed at you, and is also for others asking the same question. The simple answer to this has been posted here several times, instead of expecting someone else to do the work and post what they’ve done, if you want a specific issue resolved and have useful information as to how to reproduce the problem, open your own ticket! You then know the issue has been reported, and Emotiva knows a user considers the problem serious enough to spend a little time to report it formally (and it doesn’t matter if someone else has already reported it, they now know someone else has the problem). No matter how many people complain here, and how many times Emotiva staff interacts, it is not the proper way to get a problem resolved, unless another user can help you. This is a user forum. I think expecting Emotiva to post a bug / fix list is also unrealistic (though a change log / fix with new FW is reasonable).
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Post by megash0n on Jun 13, 2020 12:14:50 GMT -5
For example the Neural:X issue has not really been acknowledged I think. Is it a known issue? Is it being worked on? Probably not as ”the angry french man” moaned about it almost a year ago. No one listen because of his problem with the language and repeated nagging. Also we do not know what Emotiva is working on as there’s no real bug report/list. This causes people to report the same things over and over again. This isn’t directed at you, and is also for others asking the same question. The simple answer to this has been posted here several times, instead of expecting someone else to do the work and post what they’ve done, if you want a specific issue resolved and have useful information as to how to reproduce the problem, open your own ticket! You then know the issue has been reported, and Emotiva knows a user considers the problem serious enough to spend a little time to report it formally (and it doesn’t matter if someone else has already reported it, they now know someone else has the problem). No matter how many people complain here, and how many times Emotiva staff interacts, it is not the proper way to get a problem resolved, unless another user can help you. This is a user forum. I think expecting Emotiva to post a bug / fix list is also unrealistic (though a change log / fix with new FW is reasonable). Those two lists you mention are directly related. If the larger coding community (surf GitHub for a while) can follow common and accepted protocols for tracking issues and resolutions, it isn't unreasonable to expect a for profit company to do the same. There are so many ticketing system that are cheap or free that tie into all of this as well. Whether we agree on it or not, the larger point is none of us really know if our emails actually create a real ticket. There is zero accountability. So, we keep going in the same circles just wanting help from the corporation we purchased goods from. If we see that an issue is being worked on, and that 30 users report the same issue, we can sit back and wait for a fix. Anyways, we all have different expectations I guess.
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Post by Mikomill on Jun 13, 2020 13:19:08 GMT -5
This isn’t directed at you, and is also for others asking the same question. The simple answer to this has been posted here several times, instead of expecting someone else to do the work and post what they’ve done, if you want a specific issue resolved and have useful information as to how to reproduce the problem, open your own ticket! You then know the issue has been reported, and Emotiva knows a user considers the problem serious enough to spend a little time to report it formally (and it doesn’t matter if someone else has already reported it, they now know someone else has the problem). No matter how many people complain here, and how many times Emotiva staff interacts, it is not the proper way to get a problem resolved, unless another user can help you. This is a user forum. I think expecting Emotiva to post a bug / fix list is also unrealistic (though a change log / fix with new FW is reasonable). Those two lists you mention are directly related. If the larger coding community (surf GitHub for a while) can follow common and accepted protocols for tracking issues and resolutions, it isn't unreasonable to expect a for profit company to do the same. There are so many ticketing system that are cheap or free that tie into all of this as well. Whether we agree on it or not, the larger point is none of us really know if our emails actually create a real ticket. There is zero accountability. So, we keep going in the same circles just wanting help from the corporation we purchased goods from. If we see that an issue is being worked on, and that 30 users report the same issue, we can sit back and wait for a fix. Anyways, we all have different expectations I guess. What a surprise, you're still complaining about how Emotiva runs THEIR company and THEIR forum. Even after being warned you are still complaining!
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Post by megash0n on Jun 13, 2020 14:12:21 GMT -5
Those two lists you mention are directly related. If the larger coding community (surf GitHub for a while) can follow common and accepted protocols for tracking issues and resolutions, it isn't unreasonable to expect a for profit company to do the same. There are so many ticketing system that are cheap or free that tie into all of this as well. Whether we agree on it or not, the larger point is none of us really know if our emails actually create a real ticket. There is zero accountability. So, we keep going in the same circles just wanting help from the corporation we purchased goods from. If we see that an issue is being worked on, and that 30 users report the same issue, we can sit back and wait for a fix. Anyways, we all have different expectations I guess. What a surprise, you're still complaining about how Emotiva runs THEIR company and THEIR forum. Even after being warned you are still complaining! I'm sorry, I forgot it is ok for one person to say it is acceptable to them, but not another person to say it isn't. When you ban everyone here that doesn't agree with every single thing Emotiva does, it will just be you 4 left. If it is ok for one user to say bug tracking is unreasonable, it is ok for myself, and the countless number of people that direct message me in support, to feel the opposite. My message serves a purpose. Yours doesn't. It could have been a direct message.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 13, 2020 14:33:41 GMT -5
Hi There - as I was one of the users - complaining about the Neural.X - I was doing some little testing tonight. (need to add here that I did a Factory Reset and configured everything from scratch) First Test: I took Peter Gabriel - Back to Front Bluray - containing a DTS-HD MA 5.1 sound track. I switched between Direct, Surround and Auto (for Neural.X) and measured by hand with the VU Meter. There is no longer any difference in Volume - but there is a hearable difference when in Neural.X - Midbass is somehow gone, maybe it should sound like this or not. For me it's not as good as if I use a Dolby 5.1 and use the Upmixer Dolby Surround. So not a reproducable issue or error - but the dynamic in Neural.X is not so good anymore. If cannot proof as I'm not willing to go back to FW 1.5 or so. Maybe here it's expectations vs. remembering. So - Neural.X is not satisfying in Room and Dynmaics - but from a Vol Level point of view working properly. Maybe it could be optimized someday - my first wish, or maybe the DTS Pro has a better Upmixer, which would then preferred. During my Test, I switched to the Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon BD. This one has 3 different sound tracks - 5.1 TrueHD (not Atmos) - PCM 2.0 and PCM 4.0 which is the original DSOTM Quadrophony track. RMC-1 is properly showing PCM 4.0 - but there is no sound in the surrounds - this is my finding for today. Maybe someone has the Bluray and could to a cross check. PCM 4.0 is either not supported Emo forgot to implement it, due it's very exotic (understandable - but leads into: not all PCM channels delivered into RMC-1 is also transported to the expected Channel. Two questions: Did you vote in the DTS poll? What is your speaker configuration and how do you have your heights configured?
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Post by aswiss on Jun 13, 2020 14:35:12 GMT -5
Hi There - as I was one of the users - complaining about the Neural.X - I was doing some little testing tonight. (need to add here that I did a Factory Reset and configured everything from scratch) First Test: I took Peter Gabriel - Back to Front Bluray - containing a DTS-HD MA 5.1 sound track. I switched between Direct, Surround and Auto (for Neural.X) and measured by hand with the VU Meter. There is no longer any difference in Volume - but there is a hearable difference when in Neural.X - Midbass is somehow gone, maybe it should sound like this or not. For me it's not as good as if I use a Dolby 5.1 and use the Upmixer Dolby Surround. So not a reproducable issue or error - but the dynamic in Neural.X is not so good anymore. If cannot proof as I'm not willing to go back to FW 1.5 or so. Maybe here it's expectations vs. remembering. So - Neural.X is not satisfying in Room and Dynmaics - but from a Vol Level point of view working properly. Maybe it could be optimized someday - my first wish, or maybe the DTS Pro has a better Upmixer, which would then preferred. During my Test, I switched to the Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon BD. This one has 3 different sound tracks - 5.1 TrueHD (not Atmos) - PCM 2.0 and PCM 4.0 which is the original DSOTM Quadrophony track. RMC-1 is properly showing PCM 4.0 - but there is no sound in the surrounds - this is my finding for today. Maybe someone has the Bluray and could to a cross check. PCM 4.0 is either not supported Emo forgot to implement it, due it's very exotic (understandable - but leads into: not all PCM channels delivered into RMC-1 is also transported to the expected Channel. Two questions: Did you vote in the DTS poll? What is your speaker configuration and how do you have your heights configured?
DTS Poll? did I miss something - haven't read all posts due busy at work.
My config is standard 5.0.4 with TOP Front and TOP BACK (Atmos).
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Post by aswiss on Jun 13, 2020 14:50:00 GMT -5
I was doing a recheck - and have revise my post. (I delete it and create this one) Hi There - as I was one of the users - complaining about the Neural.X - I was doing some little testing tonight. (need to add here that I did a Factory Reset and configured everything from scratch)
First Test: I took Peter Gabriel - Back to Front Bluray - containing a DTS-HD MA 5.1 24/96 sound track. I switched between Direct, Surround and Auto (for Neural.X) and measured by hand with the VU Meter. There is no longer any difference in Volume - but there is a hearable difference when in Neural.X - Midbass is somehow gone, maybe it should sound like this or not. In Addition - there is no Upmixing hearable in this test. Absolute no sound from Top.
I have a 5.0.4 Setup - Rear Height is Sm Top Rear etc. - then I switched to Preset 2 (this is untouched) - no sound from Top. Then I gave the Height a switch to Sm Front Height (or so) - No sound at all. So something is not working with the Neural.X.
During my 2nd Test, I switched to the Pink Floyd - Dark Side of the Moon BD. This one has 3 different sound tracks - 5.1 TrueHD (not Atmos) - PCM 2.0 and PCM 4.0 which is the original DSOTM Quadrophony track. RMC-1 is properly showing PCM 4.0 - but there is no sound in the surrounds - this is my finding for today.
Maybe someone has the Bluray and could co a cross check. PCM 4.0 is either not supported Emo forgot to implement it, due it's very exotic (understandable - but leads into: not all PCM channels delivered into RMC-1 is also transported to the expected Channel.
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Post by megash0n on Jun 13, 2020 14:50:21 GMT -5
Two questions: Did you vote in the DTS poll? What is your speaker configuration and how do you have your heights configured?
DTS Poll? did I miss something - haven't read all posts due busy at work.
My config is standard 5.0.4 with TOP Front and TOP BACK (Atmos).
It's odd we all have different experiences. Tops seem to resolve most of our issues. Have you tried a factory reset and restoration of your settings? Here's that poll; emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57108/rmc-xmc-upmix-neural-issuesEdit: I see you did perform a reset. Sorry you are having these issues as well. The loss of dynamics, along with the odd sound in general is no fun.
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Post by aswiss on Jun 13, 2020 14:54:56 GMT -5
DTS Poll? did I miss something - haven't read all posts due busy at work.
My config is standard 5.0.4 with TOP Front and TOP BACK (Atmos).
It's odd we all have different experiences. Tops seem to resolve most of our issues. Have you tried a factory reset and restoration of your settings? Here's that poll; emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57108/rmc-xmc-upmix-neural-issuesEdit: I see you did perform a reset. Sorry you are having these issues as well. The loss of dynamics, along with the odd sound in general is no fun. Did you see my corrected post? I have no sound from Top Speaker at All with the Neural.X - very strange - that's why I hate to test. I'll stop now testing and watch a movie in Atmos ;-)
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Post by megash0n on Jun 13, 2020 15:13:36 GMT -5
It's odd we all have different experiences. Tops seem to resolve most of our issues. Have you tried a factory reset and restoration of your settings? Here's that poll; emotivalounge.proboards.com/thread/57108/rmc-xmc-upmix-neural-issuesEdit: I see you did perform a reset. Sorry you are having these issues as well. The loss of dynamics, along with the odd sound in general is no fun. Did you see my corrected post? I have no sound from Top Speaker at All with the Neural.X - very strange - that's why I hate to test. I'll stop now testing and watch a movie in Atmos ;-)
I just read it again. I actually missed all the updates you made to it, and completely missed that you weren't hearing anything at all from the heights. I believe marcl had a similar issue with PCM audio from a DVD audio disk or something, but that is definitely strange behavior from a DTS track. You may have identified an issue we haven't discussed yet. Please do vote in the poll and continue your DTS issues in that particular thread as to keep this one cleaner.
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