|
|
Post by kanichkhun on May 22, 2022 5:02:53 GMT -5
is easier to say than to do, i believe it all boil down to their coding efficiency. hope with their next major rewrite of the coding could solve the current issues that have been plagued for years.
|
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on May 22, 2022 6:17:24 GMT -5
Just a thought. When they finally do share a little knowledge with us, wtf would we want to berate them? .. because this should have been fixed a year (or more!) ago! I am not berating the supply of information, but the ongoing defect in our SSP. I am not requiring implementation of some third part convolution filter or some fancy multi speaker, up to the minute, digital filtering room correction. Bass management is simple high pass and low pass filters with addition and subtraction of resulting audio signals plus the necessary whole number dB attenuation of signals. All mathematically very easy and all very crucial to a surround sound processor produced at any time within the last 20 years. Why would you even defend this defect or the inaction in just getting it sorted! No amount of Dirac can compensate for the screwed up bass management of this processor - if these basics are not right then everything that comes after it is necessarily wrong. I'm not defending anything. I'm saying when someone finally provides a little light on a subject, why start playing whackamole? |
|
|
|
Post by keithiegee on May 25, 2022 1:26:57 GMT -5
What is the biggest issue with their bass management?
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,112
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on May 25, 2022 7:16:30 GMT -5
What is the biggest issue with their bass management? |
|
|
|
Post by marcl on May 25, 2022 7:52:41 GMT -5
What is the biggest issue with their bass management? In addition to the information on the link that ttocs referenced, there is the additional note from Keith a few days ago that there is a bug in the DSP routing that affects bass management. He said the fix for this is complex and is the subject of a code rewrite that will be released with the next major update. |
|
NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
|
Post by NicS on May 26, 2022 16:37:04 GMT -5
Interesting....
"Coming soon:
- HDMI 2.1 upgrade board (for XMC-2, RMC-1, RMC-1L)"
I've asked about this before. All the handshake and incompatibility issues I have had with my RMC-1L are all due to HDMI issues. Perhaps this will solve the difficulty I've had from day 1 with this processor.
"Still on the roadmap (things we're still planning but no specific time frame):
- DSD over USB (DoP) (probably up to 2xDSD)"
This would be great. It's been promised from the word go. If that arrives with basic level controls over levels for DSD, that would be awesome.
"Things we're looking into:
- streamer module for RMC-1
- separate "black box" of streamer for use with other processors"
Bring it. Especially if it has DSD capabilities.
|
|
|
|
Post by sandbagger on May 26, 2022 17:37:14 GMT -5
Interesting.... "Coming soon: - HDMI 2.1 upgrade board (for XMC-2, RMC-1, RMC-1L)" I've asked about this before. All the handshake and incompatibility issues I have had with my RMC-1L are all due to HDMI issues. Perhaps this will solve the difficulty I've had from day 1 with this processor. I would just kill for proper working HDMI, no way I pay for an upgrade card till its proven that it works about to sell my XMC-2 due to the simple fact that my comcast box locks it up every time I dont switch off that input before turning everything off  |
|
NicS
Sensei
Will the G4 upgrade help quell my RMC1-L frustrations...?
Posts: 238
|
Post by NicS on May 26, 2022 17:55:35 GMT -5
I would just kill for proper working HDMI, no way I pay for an upgrade card till its proven that it works about to sell my XMC-2 due to the simple fact that my comcast box locks it up every time I dont switch off that input before turning everything off  I agree 100% with this sentiment. I've battled with compatibility and wasted countless hours rebooting, swapping HDMI cables, trying different startup orders yadda, yadda, yadda. Reading between the lines of what I've been told, the HDMI issue is a known one with a fix that has been discussed internally but forbidden from being discussed with clients. I've asked if the HDMI board in my unit has been subsequently updated since I bought my RMC1-L and I was told that was proprietary information. And I totally get the situation. And, given all of this, I'm STILL loyal to them because in the end they are always just so disarmingly nice about everything. I just hope they resolve these issues and continue improving and developing. I'm invested in them as user of their products and a believer in their business approach. I just wish the pace was a little snappier. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,112
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on May 26, 2022 18:46:56 GMT -5
I would just kill for proper working HDMI, no way I pay for an upgrade card till its proven that it works about to sell my XMC-2 due to the simple fact that my comcast box locks it up every time I dont switch off that input before turning everything off I came across this issue just recently when I switched to using a fiber optic HDMI cable. I had been using a 15' copper HDMI cable for a long time, but now need a longer cable to reach where my equipment is moving to at the back of the room. As soon as the new cable was connected, and the tv turned off, and while leaving the XMC-2 in VRO (Video Remains On) for more than about 15 minutes while the TiVo remains on, the XMC-2 will get locked up. I've done a lot of testing on this specific issue since and have decided it's what is known as "HDCP Lockup", which has been a known issue in HDMI components for over 9 years. There's a chance of HDCP Lockup affecting 1 out of 7 systems - and that was the estimate by an HDMI group in 2013. This issue is directly related to recording devices with HDMI using HDCP. I even got an error message from the TiVo box confirming it was a HDCP issue because "the display is not HDCP compliant", and this was because the tv was turned off. There are many workarounds which of course are component dependent, most of which are related to startup and shutdown sequence, which includes the one you discovered, and I use as well, which is to switch away from TiVo before turning off the tv. I can switch back to using copper HDMI cable of any length and the problem goes away. In my case there's something about the fiber optic cable that does not allow the TiVo to "see" the tv even when the tv is off, and the TiVo complains about not being connected to a compliant display and makes the processor lockup. So somehow the processor needs to be able to "break" the HDCP lock that the TiVo is looking for, and then be able to renegotiate the handshake once the display is powered on again. When the DVR is shut off, there is no possibility of this issue occurring, at least it hasn't locked up yet when I've tried this. The problem can be though that when the DVR is recording a show while the tv is off, the lockup can occur during this time. I have not experimented with this yet, but might in the coming days. It'll be interesting to know what happens when: TiVo is recording a show while the tv is off, then tv is turned on while show is still recording. TiVo has completely recorded a show from beginning to end while tv is off, then entered standby, then tv is turned on and TiVo is turned on. And then some iterations of TiVo recording a show while tv is on, then turned off, yada, yada, yada. |
|
|
|
Post by Casey Leedom on May 26, 2022 23:42:53 GMT -5
Well, my old DMC-1 is on its last legs I guess. The front Power Button is going out. I suppose that it's just dust ... or something ... or maybe just a sign ...
In any case, it appears that we're on the cusp of an HDMI 2.1 solution here ... and possible new DACs (probably because of the AK fire). So I ordered a Benchmark LA4 to hold me over for two channel, but I'm wondering if the RMC-1L has "Home Theater Bypass"? Then I could feed the LA4 into it when the time arrives (HDMI 2.1, etc.)
Casey
|
|
|
|
Post by bitzerjdb on May 27, 2022 9:22:29 GMT -5
I would just kill for proper working HDMI, no way I pay for an upgrade card till its proven that it works about to sell my XMC-2 due to the simple fact that my comcast box locks it up every time I dont switch off that input before turning everything off I came across this issue just recently when I switched to using a fiber optic HDMI cable. I had been using a 15' copper HDMI cable for a long time, but now need a longer cable to reach where my equipment is moving to at the back of the room. As soon as the new cable was connected, and the tv turned off, and while leaving the XMC-2 in VRO (Video Remains On) for more than about 15 minutes while the TiVo remains on, the XMC-2 will get locked up. I've done a lot of testing on this specific issue since and have decided it's what is known as "HDCP Lockup", which has been a known issue in HDMI components for over 9 years. There's a chance of HDCP Lockup affecting 1 out of 7 systems - and that was the estimate by an HDMI group in 2013. This issue is directly related to recording devices with HDMI using HDCP. I even got an error message from the TiVo box confirming it was a HDCP issue because "the display is not HDCP compliant", and this was because the tv was turned off. There are many workarounds which of course are component dependent, most of which are related to startup and shutdown sequence, which includes the one you discovered, and I use as well, which is to switch away from TiVo before turning off the tv. I can switch back to using copper HDMI cable of any length and the problem goes away. In my case there's something about the fiber optic cable that does not allow the TiVo to "see" the tv even when the tv is off, and the TiVo complains about not being connected to a compliant display and makes the processor lockup. So somehow the processor needs to be able to "break" the HDCP lock that the TiVo is looking for, and then be able to renegotiate the handshake once the display is powered on again. When the DVR is shut off, there is no possibility of this issue occurring, at least it hasn't locked up yet when I've tried this. The problem can be though that when the DVR is recording a show while the tv is off, the lockup can occur during this time. I have not experimented with this yet, but might in the coming days. It'll be interesting to know what happens when: TiVo is recording a show while the tv is off, then tv is turned on while show is still recording. TiVo has completely recorded a show from beginning to end while tv is off, then entered standby, then tv is turned on and TiVo is turned on. And then some iterations of TiVo recording a show while tv is on, then turned off, yada, yada, yada. I'm using Ruipro Fiber cables throughout my system. The TIVOs are happy with them. I did have a recent issue where the HDMI sync between the HDFury Arcana and the TV would fail randomly. Adding the Ruipro power injector stabilized the link. |
|
|
|
Post by ElectricKoolAid on May 27, 2022 9:52:15 GMT -5
I would just kill for proper working HDMI, no way I pay for an upgrade card till its proven that it works about to sell my XMC-2 due to the simple fact that my comcast box locks it up every time I dont switch off that input before turning everything off I came across this issue just recently when I switched to using a fiber optic HDMI cable. I had been using a 15' copper HDMI cable for a long time, but now need a longer cable to reach where my equipment is moving to at the back of the room. As soon as the new cable was connected, and the tv turned off, and while leaving the XMC-2 in VRO (Video Remains On) for more than about 15 minutes while the TiVo remains on, the XMC-2 will get locked up. I've done a lot of testing on this specific issue since and have decided it's what is known as "HDCP Lockup", which has been a known issue in HDMI components for over 9 years. There's a chance of HDCP Lockup affecting 1 out of 7 systems - and that was the estimate by an HDMI group in 2013. This issue is directly related to recording devices with HDMI using HDCP. I even got an error message from the TiVo box confirming it was a HDCP issue because "the display is not HDCP compliant", and this was because the tv was turned off. There are many workarounds which of course are component dependent, most of which are related to startup and shutdown sequence, which includes the one you discovered, and I use as well, which is to switch away from TiVo before turning off the tv. I can switch back to using copper HDMI cable of any length and the problem goes away. In my case there's something about the fiber optic cable that does not allow the TiVo to "see" the tv even when the tv is off, and the TiVo complains about not being connected to a compliant display and makes the processor lockup. So somehow the processor needs to be able to "break" the HDCP lock that the TiVo is looking for, and then be able to renegotiate the handshake once the display is powered on again. When the DVR is shut off, there is no possibility of this issue occurring, at least it hasn't locked up yet when I've tried this. The problem can be though that when the DVR is recording a show while the tv is off, the lockup can occur during this time. I have not experimented with this yet, but might in the coming days. It'll be interesting to know what happens when: TiVo is recording a show while the tv is off, then tv is turned on while show is still recording. TiVo has completely recorded a show from beginning to end while tv is off, then entered standby, then tv is turned on and TiVo is turned on. And then some iterations of TiVo recording a show while tv is on, then turned off, yada, yada, yada. Little rant here, HDMI HDCP and stuff like that is so frustrating. It really does nothing to help reduce piracy IMO. Maybe it makes the barrier to entry a little bit higher than your average Joe, but anyone who knows anything about the scene knows how easy it is to get pirated content. I mean heck, the pirated content is downloaded directly from Streaming services now at full quality so you don't even have to pay for it or worry about bandwidth issues/buffering/quality. The only thing HDCP and similar technologies seem to do is cause issues for us consumers. I'm sure the problem with HDMI on the Emo processors runs deeper than just HDCP but it sure can't be helping things either. It would be great to see a future where we just use Ethernet cables for every connection and there is no HDCP or similar technologies and it just feeds video/audio. But I'm sure that's just a fantasy as major companies/studios would never go for that. Anyways, back to our regularly scheduled programming. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on May 27, 2022 10:09:13 GMT -5
Well, my old DMC-1 is on its last legs I guess. The front Power Button is going out. I suppose that it's just dust ... or something ... or maybe just a sign ... In any case, it appears that we're on the cusp of an HDMI 2.1 solution here ... and possible new DACs (probably because of the AK fire). So I ordered a Benchmark LA4 to hold me over for two channel, but I'm wondering if the RMC-1L has "Home Theater Bypass"? Then I could feed the LA4 into it when the time arrives (HDMI 2.1, etc.) Casey Usually it’s the two channel preamp that has the “Home Theatre Bypass” feature (the XSP-1 had one). The 2C preamp would then be ‘last’ in the chain, and closest to the speakers, the feature then allows the processor’s LR to play through. There’s no way I can think of that would allow a stereo preamp to go through any of the G3P without the signal being altered. If that’s a feature you want, maybe you should rethink your preamp choice? |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,112
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on May 27, 2022 10:26:29 GMT -5
I'm using Ruipro Fiber cables throughout my system. The TIVOs are happy with them. I did have a recent issue where the HDMI sync between the HDFury Arcana and the TV would fail randomly. Adding the Ruipro power injector stabilized the link. Good to know that you’re having success with FO cables and TiVo. I’ve tried with and without the power injector at each end of the cable with no change in avoiding lockup. I’ve powered the injector via the USB port on the back of the XMC-2 as instructed by Emotiva support, and powered by the Sony tv, and powered by a plug-in adapter from Apple. I’ll give it another go, but this probably means I’m insane. |
|
|
|
Post by bitzerjdb on May 27, 2022 10:44:29 GMT -5
I'm using Ruipro Fiber cables throughout my system. The TIVOs are happy with them. I did have a recent issue where the HDMI sync between the HDFury Arcana and the TV would fail randomly. Adding the Ruipro power injector stabilized the link. Good to know that you’re having success with FO cables and TiVo. I’ve tried with and without the power injector at each end of the cable with no change in avoiding lockup. I’ve powered the injector via the USB port on the back of the XMC-2 as instructed by Emotiva support, and powered by the Sony tv, and powered by a plug-in adapter from Apple. I’ll give it another go, but this probably means I’m insane. According to Ruipro, you only use one injector and it can be on either end of the cable. Not sure how that makes sense...but that is what they recommend. I would think if you need to power the "head", you would need it on both sides. Also...my Tivos do not play nice with the RMC HDMI board. Initially, I did a dedicated run to the TV and an optical cable back to the RMC. Now I rely on the HDFury switch and use the Audio Out from the switch back to the RMC. You are not nuts, this crap is crazy!!! It seems like every device has its own requirements. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,112
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on May 27, 2022 10:53:40 GMT -5
Good to know that you’re having success with FO cables and TiVo. I’ve tried with and without the power injector at each end of the cable with no change in avoiding lockup. I’ve powered the injector via the USB port on the back of the XMC-2 as instructed by Emotiva support, and powered by the Sony tv, and powered by a plug-in adapter from Apple. I’ll give it another go, but this probably means I’m insane. According to Ruipro, you only use one injector and it can be on either end of the cable. Not sure how that makes sense...but that is what they recommend. I would think if you need to power the "head", you would need it on both sides. Also...my Tivos do not play nice with the RMC HDMI board. Initially, I did a dedicated run to the TV and an optical cable back to the RMC. Now I rely on the HDFury switch and use the Audio Out from the switch back to the RMC. You are not nuts, this crap is crazy!!! It seems like every device has its own requirements. Can I use your diagnosis of my level of sanity as official proof to others? Yeah, I’ve only got the one injector. Ruipro says it’s not always needed, but if one thinks it’s needed to use it at the Source end first, then try the other end if needed. I tried all iterations o could think of. But now I’m wondering if using FO between the TiVo and processor would change things? I’ll order a short cable to try. I do so love experimenting! I just don’t have the white lab coat to go along with it, nor the Professor Irwin Corey hairdo. |
|
|
|
Post by Casey Leedom on May 27, 2022 12:26:09 GMT -5
Usually it’s the two channel preamp that has the “Home Theatre Bypass” feature (the XSP-1 had one). The 2C preamp would then be ‘last’ in the chain, and closest to the speakers, the feature then allows the processor’s LR to play through. There’s no way I can think of that would allow a stereo preamp to go through any of the G3P without the signal being altered. If that’s a feature you want, maybe you should rethink your preamp choice? Ah thanks. It was late and I was tired last night. I'll have to check out the LA4 and see if they've got that. There are two XLR Input Pairs, so one would be the Matrix Audio Element X DAC, and the other would eventually be the RMC-1L once the HDMI 2.1 version comes out. Casey |
|
doc1963
Emo VIPs 
Posts: 5,015
Member is Online
|
Post by doc1963 on May 27, 2022 12:59:12 GMT -5
ttocs... FWIW, I have used Ruipro FO cables (both 6 and 10 meters) for at least 3 years without power injectors and have never had a problem. Both my RMC-1L and my Marantz AV8805 do perfectly fine driving the cable without it. I also never use anything but the VRO power mode. I've never experienced a "lockup" with my TiVo, but I'm also not connecting the DVR (in my case, a Bolt) to my RMC. I use a TiVo Mini VOX in my HT setup and my Bolt stays in the living room setup. When watching the Mini, it just gracefully "borrows" a tuner from the Bolt. When not in use, my Harmony activity sends a command to the TiVo to enter the "Standby" mode (TiVo's version of "off"). I don't know if (or why) it makes any difference, but I'm happily not having any problems between the TiVo and RMC. The only problem that I've ever experienced was the occasional "no audio", but that was resolved (for me at least) several firmware revisions ago. Hope you get it sorted... 
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,112
Member is Online
|
Post by ttocs on May 27, 2022 13:44:23 GMT -5
ttocs ... FWIW, I have used Ruipro FO cables (both 6 and 10 meters) for at least 3 years without power injectors and have never had a problem. Both my RMC-1L and my Marantz AV8805 do perfectly fine driving the cable without it. I also never use anything but the VRO power mode. I've never experienced a "lockup" with my TiVo, but I'm also not connecting the DVR (in my case, a Bolt) to my RMC. I use a TiVo Mini VOX in my HT setup and my Bolt stays in the living room setup. When watching the Mini, it just gracefully "borrows" a tuner from the Bolt. I don't know if (or why) it makes any difference, but I'm happily not having any problems between the TiVo and RMC. The only problem that I've ever experienced was the occasional "no audio", but that was resolved (for me at least) several firmware revisions ago. Hope you get it sorted...  Thanks for the info. I'm not using the power injector either because it's not needed for signal. I only tried it to see if lockup could be avoided. This issue of the processor locking up while TiVo EDGE is the selected input and the EDGE is not able to "see" a DHCP display happens even when no display is connected to the processor, just empty HDMI outputs. So it's not exactly a "HDMI cable" issue really. Copper HDMI cables of any length connected to the Sony tv will make the EDGE happy and avoid lockup. What I don't know is when the EDGE last updated its firmware, which after connecting the FO cable, then going out for a while and returning to a locked up processor was the first instant I checked the firmware version, the date of which was less than two months old. Couple this with the fact that the EDGE rebooted the day I connected the new FO cable, which might have been when the new firmware was updated. TiVo is always doing things at the most wrong time possible. I'll try some things this weekend with the TiVo EDGE, and also my old Roamio. Should be fun. |
|
doc1963
Emo VIPs
Posts: 5,015
Member is Online
|
Post by doc1963 on May 27, 2022 13:57:36 GMT -5
ttocs ... FWIW, I have used Ruipro FO cables (both 6 and 10 meters) for at least 3 years without power injectors and have never had a problem. Both my RMC-1L and my Marantz AV8805 do perfectly fine driving the cable without it. I also never use anything but the VRO power mode. I've never experienced a "lockup" with my TiVo, but I'm also not connecting the DVR (in my case, a Bolt) to my RMC. I use a TiVo Mini VOX in my HT setup and my Bolt stays in the living room setup. When watching the Mini, it just gracefully "borrows" a tuner from the Bolt. I don't know if (or why) it makes any difference, but I'm happily not having any problems between the TiVo and RMC. The only problem that I've ever experienced was the occasional "no audio", but that was resolved (for me at least) several firmware revisions ago. Hope you get it sorted... Thanks for the info. I'm not using the power injector either because it's not needed for signal. I only tried it to see if lockup could be avoided. This issue of the processor locking up while TiVo EDGE is the selected input and the EDGE is not able to "see" a DHCP display happens even when no display is connected to the processor, just empty HDMI outputs. So it's not exactly a "HDMI cable" issue really. Copper HDMI cables of any length connected to the Sony tv will make the EDGE happy and avoid lockup. What I don't know is when the EDGE last updated its firmware, which after connecting the FO cable, then going out for a while and returning to a locked up processor was the first instant I checked the firmware version, the date of which was less than two months old. Couple this with the fact that the EDGE rebooted the day I connected the new FO cable, which might have been when the new firmware was updated. TiVo is always doing things at the most wrong time possible. I'll try some things this weekend with the TiVo EDGE, and also my old Roamio. Should be fun. Gotcha... and just so you know, I edited my post to include " When not in use, my Harmony activity sends a command to the TiVo to enter the "Standby" mode (TiVo's version of "off")". Not that it's helpful in your case. As a secondary thought, if you have a stable and reliable HDMI-ARC connection between your XMC-2 and display, maybe try connecting your Edge to the TV and use ARC to return the audio. ARC could be used to avoid the need to run a secondary (optical) cable. Of course CEC would then be involved, but that is a separate issue that's not insurmountable. |
|
