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Post by bitzerjdb on May 23, 2020 13:03:55 GMT -5
Tivo Bolt (Update) Ok...did some more testing this morning. Like I said previously, there is bad Mojo between the Bolt and the RMC. I have no problem running a second HDMI cable to the TV for a direct connect to the TIVO. I use a MSC-400 controller to execute all the Home Theater Macros, so switching inputs happens in the background and is seamless. Thanks! You've done a lot of good testing and checking! Sorry a good result hasn't happened. Yet. edit: I assume you've also got a current FW for the tv? When the TV went back on-line this week I checked for new Firmware and it was downloaded and installed. |
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Post by markc on May 23, 2020 13:31:57 GMT -5
Quite happy to offer a differing opinion to that of markc . I see little difference in dynamics, perhaps a little on overall volume, but nothing that would indicate what he is hearing. Prior to 10.1 I had horrible issues with Neural:X - since then nothing. With the obvious exception of “cross-upmixing” which is a current limitation, Neural:X works fine for my needs and in my set-up (7.2.4). That's all I'm getting as well. A lowering of overall volume on some but not all DTS-MA 5.1 soundtracks. For example with Adele at RAH and Joe Bonamassa with Beth Hart in Amsterdam I get the volume decrease when switching to Neural-X but no volume difference when doing the same with Eric Clapton Slowhand at 70. All display DTS-MA 5.1 on the RMC-1L. Nothing else that I would consider a degradation in the overall mix or sound quality. As you might imagine, I have spent a lot of time playing lots of different sources and files and discs. One of the problems is that sometimes, one of the faults becomes a recurrent BLESSING! This is a separate fault where despite the front panel displaying dts Neural:X as the Surround mode, it has not in fact been implemented at all. The sound is good and even flipping back and forwards from Surround to Direct to Neural:X shows no real difference (Much like Bluescale showed) However, get the XMC-2 to relock on to the signal properly and the poor performance of Neural:X is there to hear. No mistaking it when it is active, and it's action is easily confirmed by flipping Neural:X to Surround then back again. I think this failure to lock on and actually implement the Neural:X sometimes reassures people it is working, just because Neural:X is diplayed on the front panel. The most reliable way I have found to ensure that the XMC-2 gets up to its bad tricks with Neural:X is: -When Neural:X seems to be sounding "good" and the same as Surround (i.e. it isn't working as the rear channels in 7.1 are not playing), start playing an Atmos or PCM source so that the processor locks on to that. -Then restart the SAME dts movie with "Auto" enagaged and it usually locks on to the dts track this time and sounds terrible (and the rear channels are playing audio from a 5.1 source) |
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Post by steelman1991 on May 23, 2020 17:22:40 GMT -5
That's all I'm getting as well. A lowering of overall volume on some but not all DTS-MA 5.1 soundtracks. For example with Adele at RAH and Joe Bonamassa with Beth Hart in Amsterdam I get the volume decrease when switching to Neural-X but no volume difference when doing the same with Eric Clapton Slowhand at 70. All display DTS-MA 5.1 on the RMC-1L. Nothing else that I would consider a degradation in the overall mix or sound quality. As you might imagine, I have spent a lot of time playing lots of different sources and files and discs. One of the problems is that sometimes, one of the faults becomes a recurrent BLESSING! This is a separate fault where despite the front panel displaying dts Neural:X as the Surround mode, it has not in fact been implemented at all. The sound is good and even flipping back and forwards from Surround to Direct to Neural:X shows no real difference (Much like Bluescale showed) However, get the XMC-2 to relock on to the signal properly and the poor performance of Neural:X is there to hear. No mistaking it when it is active, and it's action is easily confirmed by flipping Neural:X to Surround then back again. I think this failure to lock on and actually implement the Neural:X sometimes reassures people it is working, just because Neural:X is diplayed on the front panel. The most reliable way I have found to ensure that the XMC-2 gets up to its bad tricks with Neural:X is: -When Neural:X seems to be sounding "good" and the same as Surround (i.e. it isn't working as the rear channels in 7.1 are not playing), start playing an Atmos or PCM source so that the processor locks on to that. -Then restart the SAME dts movie with "Auto" enagaged and it usually locks on to the dts track this time and sounds terrible (and the rear channels are playing audio from a 5.1 source)
Sorry my friend - I've tried all your methods to try and re-create what you're experiencing and I can't, running an RMC-1.
I even disabled my tops to give me a 7.1 and tried a 5.1 DTS-HD MA track (The Dark Knight). in this configuration (or any for that matter), I get what I expect from the mode - no perceivable changes in dynamics, perhaps a minute drop in volume between Neural:X and Direct - nothing between Neural:X and Surround. No smearing, no blankets thrown over the front array and definitely a track with "balls to spare" - sorry @megashon 
With the tops disabled , when engaging Neural:X, the initial sounds to the rear speakers consist of some very low level ambient street noise, until the two robbers zip line from one building to the roof of the other, at that point there is even some some bass action mixed with the ambient sounds which come from the rears. The gunfire in the robbery is powerful and chest slamming in any of the modes and the rears continue to provide background support to the track.
Next I tried your suggestion of playing an Atmos track, then back to playing the DTS track - no change I'm afraid - track played same as before.
Sadly not all tracks are mixed the same - we all know that Nolan's movies enjoy a "hot track", so I decided to test with something less hot but with plenty potential action. For this I went with Die Hard (5.1 DTS-HD MA). Again I got the result I expected. The main volume had to be pushed to provide a louder listening experience from the Nolan track - but that was true for all the modes "Neural:X, Direct and Surround". There was no change to the dynamics at all.
I went on to test a further 10 titles (5 DTS-HD MA x 5.1 and 5 x 7.1 - re-enabling my tops to allow upmixing to full 7.2.4) and none of them exhibited any of the behaviour you are reporting.
The titles (all played via Kaleidescape) were
5.1 Ant-Man Along Came A Spider - this one was extremely active in upmixing to 7.1) Casino Royale Back to the Future Gangs of New York
7.1 Doctor Strange Spartacus Thor War For The Planet of the Apes Maleficent
One final question - is this purely a subjective viewpoint that Neural:X isn't engaging or do you have more scientific proof?
I can understand your frustration and annoyance with your experience, but it is certainly one I don't share. I could wildly speculate that you had a faulty unit, but unless you contact support and have them confirm or otherwise, that's all it would be from me - speculation. |
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Post by hytram on May 23, 2020 18:43:49 GMT -5
Just to at fuel to the fire, I am also seeing the 'massive' drop on dynamics and noticeable difference in volume when playing DTS material on DTS Neutral X
Will start noting down what does or doesn't.
Interesting enough, I am also using Jriver which was mentioned as a source for the issue.
I havnt played a Bluray on 1.10 yet, might give that ago
(still can't get my head around using a mode called Dolby Surround, dobly surround was the format before Pro-logic 30 years ago that got me in to this mess 😛)
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Post by steelman1991 on May 24, 2020 3:38:33 GMT -5
@megashon, markc and hytram any way you guys can try alternative sources. Seems to be a common device “jriver” as pointed out in hytram post. Just a thought. 👍 |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 6:53:28 GMT -5
@megashon, markc and hytram any way you guys can try alternative sources. Seems to be a common device “jriver” as pointed out in hytram post. Just a thought. 👍 I will. I'm pretty sure I've tried MPC-HC, but I'll try again. It would more likely be LAV Filters and not JRiver that's the issue since LAV is splitting out the stream and such. At any rate... I'll test sometime today. |
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Post by markc on May 24, 2020 7:49:43 GMT -5
@megashon, markc and hytram any way you guys can try alternative sources. Seems to be a common device “jriver” as pointed out in hytram post. Just a thought. 👍 Most of my testing was done with Blu-ray discs as I realised the issue early on and disabled DTS 5.1 output from JRiver using Zone-switching. I am encouraged by your findings however, as it means the RMC-1 at least is capable of doing the correct thing and it is not an inherent global fault. (Thanks for finding the time and having the patience to test all the configurations and sources that you did! It has helped a lot by eliminating where the issue lies) I have Dark Knight Blu-ray so will specifically test that today. There is no sun here so my day's plans have changed. Finally, yes, it is definite that the front panel can show Neural:X as active but it has failed to engage (and flagged up by the room volume being normal) because the rear surround speakers are dead with a 5.1 source with zero output, so no up-mixing occurring and it is effectively in "Surround" mode. I think I need to look at other variables as to when / why the abnormal function of Neural:X occurs and when it does not. For certain, the Bi-amp Fronts selection for the Front Wides speaker selection does not work completely neutrally, so I do not use this, and disabled it from the first day of getting my XMC-1 Using Front Wide outputs to bi-amp the fronts causing the up-mixers (both Dolby Surround and dts Neural:x) to be activated even for 7.1 sources in a 7.1 system. However, in this bi-amping scenario, the Dolby surround on a 7.1 source in a 7.1 system doesn't cause any audible audio change, but dts Neural:X does. |
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Post by doc1963 on May 24, 2020 9:12:03 GMT -5
Tivo Bolt (Update) Ok...did some more testing this morning. Tried the Active cable from the Bolt to the RMC and no picture at all (expected behavior) Connected the Good HDMI cable and got a picture (Green), the Tivo was set to Auto and saying 4K. On the RMC 4:2:0 SDR, and 2160p/60 10bit Tried deselecting Auto and checked all the other resolutions...Got a picture but no sound. On the RMC 4:4:4 SDR 1080i/60 8bit However, the Tivo said it was using 4K.... HDR was turned off for all of this and Dolby Audio was set to PCM Switching to other inputs on the RMC produced Video and Sound. Tried resetting all the HDMI connections (TV, RMC, Tivo) and no change. Would get a picture and no sound. For giggles, I tried a different HDMI port on the RMC and got the same result. Put the Active cable back between the TIVO and the TV and it worked like a champ...Set the resolution to Auto and Dolby. Like I said previously, there is bad Mojo between the Bolt and the RMC. I have no problem running a second HDMI cable to the TV for a direct connect to the TIVO. I use a MSC-400 controller to execute all the Home Theater Macros, so switching inputs happens in the background and is seamless. Thanks! I've been a long time TiVo user and there's no denying that TiVo has become a hot mess. I have finally initiated my XMC-1 upgrade and have my new RMC-1L on order. But while I have my AV8805 still in my system, I experimented with the TiVo video output settings to see what my 8805 captures in its incoming HDMI signal info and compare it to what you're seeing. To be clear, this is the results using my TiVo 4K Mini VOX, but it uses the same internal hardware as my TiVo Bolt. Both are running the latest TE (TiVo Experience) software. For further clarity, my AV8805 (which uses the same Panasonic MN864788 switches as the v3 HDMI board found in the XMC and RMC) has no issues whatsoever with the TiVo. So yes, your "bad mojo" comment may be accurate.. With the video output set to " 4K Auto", the 8805 reports receiving " 4K:60Hz/BT.2020/YCbCr 4:2:2/12bit". With the video output setting at 1080p/60fps, the 8805 sees " 1080p:60Hz/YCbCr 4:2:2/8bit". Setting the output to 1080i showed the same results as 1080p. It's interesting to note that using "4K Auto" setting will require 17.8 Gbps of HDMI bandwidth (see the chart I've attached below) which is the maximum supported by the HDMI 2.0 spec. We'd better be using a "proven" HDMI 2.0 Certified High Speed cable to properly support that..!! It's also interesting to note that they're also not using proper colorimetry support, but are instead packing Rec.709 (SDR) into a BT.2020 (wide) color gamut. Without proper tone-mapping, this shouldn't be done. Both Nvidia and Apple were guilty of this, but fixed it by adding the appropriate "match range" setting. In regards to your results, I'm now wondering why the RMC-1 does not show the same HDMI signal input information as I'm receiving using my 8805. I can confirm that the signal sent from the TiVo is exactly what the 8805 sees. Additionally, you can go to THIS thread and see post #6 for further confirmation. The only problem is that TiVo's engineering didn't "fix" anything... all they've done is to fix the firmware to now read the "flags" correctly within the infoframe. Ted Malone left TiVo in February, 2020. I have to admit that I'm a bit concerned by this issue because I do use my TiVo, but for traditional TV viewing only. I do not use the TiVo as a "streaming" box because, quite honestly, TiVo is a tiny fish in a huge pond and their apps are always the last in line to get updates. Oddly enough, I did't have too much trouble using my TiVo with my XMC-1 (with the v3 board) outside of the typical audio issues after FF/RW, but since I haven't used my XMC-1 in probably a year, things have obviously changed on both sides of the equation. However, if I must forego using the TiVo until Emotiva sorts this out, I'll be okay with that. I'm eager to use my RMC-1L and so "Channels" and/or "Plex Live TV & DVR" (used in conjunction with my Silicon Dust HDHomerun) on my Nvidia Shield can fill the void in the meantime. This will be my last year with TiVo regardless. Hoping this information might help in some way...   |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 9:59:21 GMT -5
@megashon, markc and hytram any way you guys can try alternative sources. Seems to be a common device “jriver” as pointed out in hytram post. Just a thought. 👍 Most of my testing was done with Blu-ray discs as I realised the issue early on and disabled DTS 5.1 output from JRiver using Zone-switching. I am encouraged by your findings however, as it means the RMC-1 at least is capable of doing the correct thing and it is not an inherent global fault. (Thanks for finding the time and having the patience to test all the configurations and sources that you did! It has helped a lot by eliminating where the issue lies) I have Dark Knight Blu-ray so will specifically test that today. There is no sun here so my day's plans have changed. Finally, yes, it is definite that the front panel can show Neural:X as active but it has failed to engage (and flagged up by the room volume being normal) because the rear surround speakers are dead with a 5.1 source with zero output, so no up-mixing occurring and it is effectively in "Surround" mode. I think I need to look at other variables as to when / why the abnormal function of Neural:X occurs and when it does not. For certain, the Bi-amp Fronts selection for the Front Wides speaker selection does not work completely neutrally, so I do not use this, and disabled it from the first day of getting my XMC-1 Using Front Wide outputs to bi-amp the fronts causing the up-mixers (both Dolby Surround and dts Neural:x) to be activated even for 7.1 sources in a 7.1 system. However, in this bi-amping scenario, the Dolby surround on a 7.1 source in a 7.1 system doesn't cause any audible audio change, but dts Neural:X does. I don't know what to say. I've dorked around for over an hour fiddling with settings. JRiver and MPC both are configured to bitstream, using wasapi.. And does so. The RMC recognizes the correct codec (DTS 5.1 in this case). Now, if I use Windows Media Player or Microsoft Movies and TV app, I have the same sound issues, but the RMC incorrectly identifies the track as DTS-HD MA 5.1 in these apps. I tried so many different settings in LAV Filters, but could make no difference in the sound delta. Next, I switched to my Xbox One X input. I modified the Xbox output to use DTS instead of Dolby Atmos. Then, I used the Movies and TV app to play a movie with a Lossy DTS 5.1 track. I had the same, lack-luster results as my PC. It's just plain bad. It isn't even a debatable subject. This isn't a... Hey, do you hear that slight difference??? Absolutely anyone with working ears could immediately and consistently recognize the vastly different sound. I'm glad for those of you who aren't experiencing this issue, but some of us are. It could be a Microsoft problem, but I've gotten identical results on two inputs, different movies, different devices and different applications. I don't own any other device to test with that isn't going to run Windows. Well, I guess I could attempt using my phone with a USB C to HDMI converter. At the end of the day, selecting surround sounds fantastic. I'll guess I'll wait for others to experience more of this. |
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Post by jpshinn on May 24, 2020 10:04:58 GMT -5
Hello, all. I am wondering if others have experienced an issue I had last night with L.A. Confidential on my AppleTV 4k. I am running the latest firmware. When trying to play the movie through the AppleTV movie app, the audio causes a horrible buzz and high pitched alternating squelch. I powercycled both the Emotiva and the AppleTV and unplugged HDMI cables but to no avail. It doesn't do this on any other AppleTV movie (I was able to play it on my PC without issue) and I was able to play a different Blu-Ray movie on my Oppo without issue. Given that it is so specific to a single title, I don't suspect an Emotiva issue but thought I'd ask here.
Thanks,
John
Emotiva RMC-1 (1.10 but one of the first hardware units)
AppleTV 4k
Tivo Bolt+
Xbox OneX
Cary 7.125 Amp
Linn Artikulate speakers
Sony XBR950 4k TV
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Post by steelman1991 on May 24, 2020 10:18:53 GMT -5
Most of my testing was done with Blu-ray discs as I realised the issue early on and disabled DTS 5.1 output from JRiver using Zone-switching. I am encouraged by your findings however, as it means the RMC-1 at least is capable of doing the correct thing and it is not an inherent global fault. (Thanks for finding the time and having the patience to test all the configurations and sources that you did! It has helped a lot by eliminating where the issue lies) I have Dark Knight Blu-ray so will specifically test that today. There is no sun here so my day's plans have changed. Finally, yes, it is definite that the front panel can show Neural:X as active but it has failed to engage (and flagged up by the room volume being normal) because the rear surround speakers are dead with a 5.1 source with zero output, so no up-mixing occurring and it is effectively in "Surround" mode. I think I need to look at other variables as to when / why the abnormal function of Neural:X occurs and when it does not. For certain, the Bi-amp Fronts selection for the Front Wides speaker selection does not work completely neutrally, so I do not use this, and disabled it from the first day of getting my XMC-1 Using Front Wide outputs to bi-amp the fronts causing the up-mixers (both Dolby Surround and dts Neural:x) to be activated even for 7.1 sources in a 7.1 system. However, in this bi-amping scenario, the Dolby surround on a 7.1 source in a 7.1 system doesn't cause any audible audio change, but dts Neural:X does. I don't know what to say. I've dorked around for over an hour fiddling with settings. JRiver and MPC both are configured to bitstream, using wasapi.. And does so. The RMC recognizes the correct codec (DTS 5.1 in this case). Now, if I use Windows Media Player or Microsoft Movies and TV app, I have the same sound issues, but the RMC incorrectly identifies the track as DTS-HD MA 5.1 in these apps. I tried so many different settings in LAV Filters, but could make no difference in the sound delta. Next, I switched to my Xbox One X input. I modified the Xbox output to use DTS instead of Dolby Atmos. Then, I used the Movies and TV app to play a movie with a Lossy DTS 5.1 track. I had the same, lack-luster results as my PC. It's just plain bad. It isn't even a debatable subject. This isn't a... Hey, do you hear that slight difference??? Absolutely anyone with working ears could immediately and consistently recognize the vastly different sound. I'm glad for those of you who aren't experiencing this issue, but some of us are. It could be a Microsoft problem, but I've gotten identical results on two inputs, different movies, different devices and different applications. I don't own any other device to test with that isn't going to run Windows. Well, I guess I could attempt using my phone with a USB C to HDMI converter. At the end of the day, selecting surround sounds fantastic. I'll guess I'll wait for others to experience more of this. I’m sure I might experience the same with a “lossy” DTS, that’s not what I was testing. I was testing DTS-HD MA tracks which by their very definition are lossless and therefore far more dynamic than their lossy counterparts. This clearly isn’t a like for like comparison if we’re testing different versions of the codec. Do you get the same issues with DTS-HD MA tracks. I’m not sure I even have any lossy DTS tracks to try. Will dig around and see. |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 10:36:19 GMT -5
I don't know what to say. I've dorked around for over an hour fiddling with settings. JRiver and MPC both are configured to bitstream, using wasapi.. And does so. The RMC recognizes the correct codec (DTS 5.1 in this case). Now, if I use Windows Media Player or Microsoft Movies and TV app, I have the same sound issues, but the RMC incorrectly identifies the track as DTS-HD MA 5.1 in these apps. I tried so many different settings in LAV Filters, but could make no difference in the sound delta. Next, I switched to my Xbox One X input. I modified the Xbox output to use DTS instead of Dolby Atmos. Then, I used the Movies and TV app to play a movie with a Lossy DTS 5.1 track. I had the same, lack-luster results as my PC. It's just plain bad. It isn't even a debatable subject. This isn't a... Hey, do you hear that slight difference??? Absolutely anyone with working ears could immediately and consistently recognize the vastly different sound. I'm glad for those of you who aren't experiencing this issue, but some of us are. It could be a Microsoft problem, but I've gotten identical results on two inputs, different movies, different devices and different applications. I don't own any other device to test with that isn't going to run Windows. Well, I guess I could attempt using my phone with a USB C to HDMI converter. At the end of the day, selecting surround sounds fantastic. I'll guess I'll wait for others to experience more of this. I’m sure I might experience the same with a “lossy” DTS, that’s not what I was testing. I was testing DTS-HD MA tracks which by their very definition are lossless and therefore far more dynamic than their lossy counterparts. This clearly isn’t a like for like comparison if we’re testing different versions of the codec. Do you get the same issues with DTS-HD MA tracks. I’m not sure I even have any lossy DTS tracks to try. Will dig around and see. Yes, most of my DTS tracks are lossless. This just happened to be a movie I watched recently. They both behave the same for me. Is there potentially a measurable difference? Maybe.. But the overall "problems" exist anytime Neural:X is engaged. |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator 
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
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Post by LCSeminole on May 24, 2020 10:48:13 GMT -5
I don't know what to say. I've dorked around for over an hour fiddling with settings. JRiver and MPC both are configured to bitstream, using wasapi.. And does so. The RMC recognizes the correct codec (DTS 5.1 in this case). Now, if I use Windows Media Player or Microsoft Movies and TV app, I have the same sound issues, but the RMC incorrectly identifies the track as DTS-HD MA 5.1 in these apps. I tried so many different settings in LAV Filters, but could make no difference in the sound delta. Next, I switched to my Xbox One X input. I modified the Xbox output to use DTS instead of Dolby Atmos. Then, I used the Movies and TV app to play a movie with a Lossy DTS 5.1 track. I had the same, lack-luster results as my PC. It's just plain bad. It isn't even a debatable subject. This isn't a... Hey, do you hear that slight difference??? Absolutely anyone with working ears could immediately and consistently recognize the vastly different sound. I'm glad for those of you who aren't experiencing this issue, but some of us are. It could be a Microsoft problem, but I've gotten identical results on two inputs, different movies, different devices and different applications. I don't own any other device to test with that isn't going to run Windows. Well, I guess I could attempt using my phone with a USB C to HDMI converter. At the end of the day, selecting surround sounds fantastic. I'll guess I'll wait for others to experience more of this. I’m sure I might experience the same with a “lossy” DTS, that’s not what I was testing. I was testing DTS-HD MA tracks which by their very definition are lossless and therefore far more dynamic than their lossy counterparts. This clearly isn’t a like for like comparison if we’re testing different versions of the codec. Do you get the same issues with DTS-HD MA tracks. I’m not sure I even have any lossy DTS tracks to try. Will dig around and see. I can't remember the last time I played a "lossy" DTS track even when I had the XMC-1. I'm sure I haven't on my RMC-1. I'm catching up on a couple of days in this thread as I've been DIY'ing it this week, but I've tried several DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies this morning and not one them has been lackluster in the immersive channels. I'm specifically watching the Dark Knight 4K UHD-Blurays and the immersive channels are definitely doing their thing. I have PA-1's set to "AUTO" powering my SVS Elevations, so I know the height channels are receiving an audio signal since the PA-1 are turning on, not to mention I can hear them as well. So both of my sources for lossless DTS: Panasonic DP-UB820/Oppo UDP-203 are working great with Neural:X. Are there members not having the same success with either of these sources(or any other disc media player) with DTS-HD MA 5.1/Neural:X. Is this maybe a computer based player/streamer bug not playing nicely with the RMC-1? |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 10:59:21 GMT -5
I’m sure I might experience the same with a “lossy” DTS, that’s not what I was testing. I was testing DTS-HD MA tracks which by their very definition are lossless and therefore far more dynamic than their lossy counterparts. This clearly isn’t a like for like comparison if we’re testing different versions of the codec. Do you get the same issues with DTS-HD MA tracks. I’m not sure I even have any lossy DTS tracks to try. Will dig around and see. I can't remember the last time I played a "lossy" DTS track even when I had the XMC-1. I'm sure I haven't on my RMC-1. I'm catching up on a couple of days in this thread as I've been DIY'ing it this week, but I've tried several DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies this morning and not one them has been lackluster in the immersive channels. I'm specifically watching the Dark Knight 4K UHD-Blurays and the immersive channels are definitely doing their thing. I have PA-1's set to "AUTO" powering my SVS Elevations, so I know the height channels are receiving an audio signal since the PA-1 are turning on, not to mention I can hear them as well. So both of my sources for lossless DTS: Panasonic DP-UB820/Oppo UDP-203 are working great with Neural:X. Are there members not having the same success with either of these sources with DTS-HD MA 5.1/Neural:X ? Maybe I should just remove the fact that it was a lossy track as to not complicate this more. I experience the issue I hear no matter the DTS codec. Obviously, we aren't talking about DTS:X here even though I still think there is something still wrong with that. Without question, some of us are experiencing really awful audio and some are not. I do not have a stand alone player. Oh, I also watched those Batman 4k versions not too long ago. I've used the last one as a test to flip back and forth. Using surround sounds amazing. Neural-X sounds awful in comparison. It isn't that the speakers aren't working. It is just like there is a slight broadband notch filter from around the crossover point up to the upper vocals or higher. Volume is around 4-6db lower, and DRC is turned on. It has to be something specific to what we (those of us with issues) are doing, because I refuse to believe the rest of you are deaf. 😂😂😂 |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
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Post by LCSeminole on May 24, 2020 11:17:24 GMT -5
I can't remember the last time I played a "lossy" DTS track even when I had the XMC-1. I'm sure I haven't on my RMC-1. I'm catching up on a couple of days in this thread as I've been DIY'ing it this week, but I've tried several DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies this morning and not one them has been lackluster in the immersive channels. I'm specifically watching the Dark Knight 4K UHD-Blurays and the immersive channels are definitely doing their thing. I have PA-1's set to "AUTO" powering my SVS Elevations, so I know the height channels are receiving an audio signal since the PA-1 are turning on, not to mention I can hear them as well. So both of my sources for lossless DTS: Panasonic DP-UB820/Oppo UDP-203 are working great with Neural:X. Are there members not having the same success with either of these sources with DTS-HD MA 5.1/Neural:X ? Maybe I should just remove the fact that it was a lossy track as to not complicate this more. I experience the issue I hear no matter the DTS codec. Obviously, we aren't talking about DTS:X here even though I still think there is something still wrong with that. Without question, some of us are experiencing really awful audio and some are not. I do not have a stand alone player. Oh, I also watched those Batman 4k versions not too long ago. I've used the last one as a test to flip back and forth. Using surround sounds amazing. Neural-X sounds awful in comparison. It isn't that the speakers aren't working. It is just like there is a slight broadband notch filter from around the crossover point up to the upper vocals or higher. Volume is around 4-6db lower, and DRC is turned on. It has to be something specific to what we (those of us with issues) are doing, because I refuse to believe the rest of you are deaf. 😂😂😂 I definitely don't doubt that you or others are hearing these differences with Neural:X. Do you have access, maybe a friend with a stand-alone player, that you could try out? I'd like for everyone to hear the same robustness and fullness as I do with Neural:X, so just trying to narrow this down for Lonnie/Ray/Damon/KeithL when I report this as a bug so maybe they can pin-point the problem. Hopefully some of the beta's can verify your findings and relay their experiences in reproducing this as well. |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 11:28:51 GMT -5
Maybe I should just remove the fact that it was a lossy track as to not complicate this more. I experience the issue I hear no matter the DTS codec. Obviously, we aren't talking about DTS:X here even though I still think there is something still wrong with that. Without question, some of us are experiencing really awful audio and some are not. I do not have a stand alone player. Oh, I also watched those Batman 4k versions not too long ago. I've used the last one as a test to flip back and forth. Using surround sounds amazing. Neural-X sounds awful in comparison. It isn't that the speakers aren't working. It is just like there is a slight broadband notch filter from around the crossover point up to the upper vocals or higher. Volume is around 4-6db lower, and DRC is turned on. It has to be something specific to what we (those of us with issues) are doing, because I refuse to believe the rest of you are deaf. 😂😂😂 I definitely don't doubt that you or others are hearing these differences with Neural:X. Do you have access, maybe a friend with a stand-alone player, that you could try out? I'd like for everyone to hear the same robustness and fullness as I do with Neural:X, so just trying to narrow this down for Lonnie/Ray/Damon/KeithL when I report this as a bug so maybe they can pin-point the problem. Hopefully some of the beta's can verify your findings and relay their experiences in reproducing this as well. Yes sir. I will see what I can come up with. I am also planning to pop a disk in the Xbox instead of playing over the network to see if that behaves the same. I just located an old Sony DVD player someone left in my house. It is coaxial output, so it won't be quite apples to apples. If I experience the same though, that ought to be pretty telling. |
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Post by steelman1991 on May 24, 2020 11:29:11 GMT -5
I can't remember the last time I played a "lossy" DTS track even when I had the XMC-1. I'm sure I haven't on my RMC-1. I'm catching up on a couple of days in this thread as I've been DIY'ing it this week, but I've tried several DTS-HD MA 5.1 movies this morning and not one them has been lackluster in the immersive channels. I'm specifically watching the Dark Knight 4K UHD-Blurays and the immersive channels are definitely doing their thing. I have PA-1's set to "AUTO" powering my SVS Elevations, so I know the height channels are receiving an audio signal since the PA-1 are turning on, not to mention I can hear them as well. So both of my sources for lossless DTS: Panasonic DP-UB820/Oppo UDP-203 are working great with Neural:X. Are there members not having the same success with either of these sources with DTS-HD MA 5.1/Neural:X ? Maybe I should just remove the fact that it was a lossy track as to not complicate this more. I experience the issue I hear no matter the DTS codec. Obviously, we aren't talking about DTS:X here even though I still think there is something still wrong with that. Without question, some of us are experiencing really awful audio and some are not. I do not have a stand alone player. Oh, I also watched those Batman 4k versions not too long ago. I've used the last one as a test to flip back and forth. Using surround sounds amazing. Neural-X sounds awful in comparison. It isn't that the speakers aren't working. It is just like there is a slight broadband notch filter from around the crossover point up to the upper vocals or higher. Volume is around 4-6db lower, and DRC is turned on. It has to be something specific to what we (those of us with issues) are doing, because I refuse to believe the rest of you are deaf. 😂😂😂 Are you saying "it sounds as if DRC is on" or you actually have DRC switched on. If you have it switched on - switch it off and try again. |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 11:40:00 GMT -5
Maybe I should just remove the fact that it was a lossy track as to not complicate this more. I experience the issue I hear no matter the DTS codec. Obviously, we aren't talking about DTS:X here even though I still think there is something still wrong with that. Without question, some of us are experiencing really awful audio and some are not. I do not have a stand alone player. Oh, I also watched those Batman 4k versions not too long ago. I've used the last one as a test to flip back and forth. Using surround sounds amazing. Neural-X sounds awful in comparison. It isn't that the speakers aren't working. It is just like there is a slight broadband notch filter from around the crossover point up to the upper vocals or higher. Volume is around 4-6db lower, and DRC is turned on. It has to be something specific to what we (those of us with issues) are doing, because I refuse to believe the rest of you are deaf. 😂😂😂 Are you saying "it sounds as if DRC is on" or you actually have DRC switched on. If you have it switched on - switch it off and try again. I apologize for the confusion. It sounds as if it is on. DRC is absolutely not turned on. I understand why some would want to use DRC, but I have never had a use for it. Lastly, I'm sure we are all loosely using terms as a quick and easy way to compare what we are experiencing with real things like SPL, DRC, notch filters, etc. If I had no comparison, I wouldn't tell you Neural-X sounds bad. It's when you start comparing that you hear these things and want it to be better. You play a DD track that is up mixed to DSU and you think it sounds amazing. The original codecs sound amazing. Neural-X sounds bad. I'd much rather decode on the PC, send it PCM, and use DSU than to hear DTS-N. Hell, sending it PCM and using Direct would still sound far better in my opinion. |
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LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
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Post by LCSeminole on May 24, 2020 11:40:30 GMT -5
I definitely don't doubt that you or others are hearing these differences with Neural:X. Do you have access, maybe a friend with a stand-alone player, that you could try out? I'd like for everyone to hear the same robustness and fullness as I do with Neural:X, so just trying to narrow this down for Lonnie/Ray/Damon/KeithL when I report this as a bug so maybe they can pin-point the problem. Hopefully some of the beta's can verify your findings and relay their experiences in reproducing this as well. Yes sir. I will see what I can come up with. I am also planning to pop a disk in the Xbox instead of playing over the network to see if that behaves the same. I just located an old Sony DVD player someone left in my house. It is coaxial output, so it won't be quite apples to apples. If I experience the same though, that ought to be pretty telling. I'm not familiar with the Xbox capabilities, is it capable of playing a DTS-HD MA audio track, as a coax output doesn't have the bandwidth to handle multi-channel lossless? |
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Post by megash0n on May 24, 2020 11:43:07 GMT -5
Yes sir. I will see what I can come up with. I am also planning to pop a disk in the Xbox instead of playing over the network to see if that behaves the same. I just located an old Sony DVD player someone left in my house. It is coaxial output, so it won't be quite apples to apples. If I experience the same though, that ought to be pretty telling. I'm not familiar with the Xbox capabilities, is it capable of playing a DTS-HD MA audio track, as a coax output doesn't have the bandwidth to handle multi-channel lossless? I think, but I don't remember myself. For the coax test.. That was just going to be a basic DVD with DTS 5.1. Again, I can very easily hear this difference whether it is DTS or DTS-HD. 5.1 or 7.1 |
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