Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 15:17:37 GMT -5
New weird and unwanted behavior with audio mode changes and triggers. In the past when moving through (skip, FF, or Rew) shows on my cable/tivo box the RMC-1 would camp on an audio format long enough that the triggers would not engage/disengage. Now occasionally while skipping ahead (etc.) the RMC-1 appears to change audio modes too quickly from DD5.1 to PCM2.0 (PCM2.0 appears to be the default/fallback audio mode) - when it does this triggers that I have set to engage my subwoofers for "Surround" audio (and all 5.1+ audio) disengage then rapidly re-engage causing my amps to power cycle unnecessarily.
I appreciate the improved mode changes but this behavior can't be good. I have even tried changing the default audio mode on the input for 2.0 channel processing from Auto to Surround without success (assuming that Surround would actually utilize all of my speakers ...like it's supposed to!).
|
|
|
|
Post by foggy1956 on May 25, 2020 15:47:13 GMT -5
New weird and unwanted behavior with audio mode changes and triggers. In the past when moving through (skip, FF, or Rew) shows on my cable/tivo box the RMC-1 would camp on an audio format long enough that the triggers would not engage/disengage. Now occasionally while skipping ahead (etc.) the RMC-1 appears to change audio modes too quickly from DD5.1 to PCM2.0 (PCM2.0 appears to be the default/fallback audio mode) - when it does this triggers that I have set to engage my subwoofers for "Surround" audio (and all 5.1+ audio) disengage then rapidly re-engage causing my amps to power cycle unnecessarily. I appreciate the improved mode changes but this behavior can't be good. I have even tried changing the default audio mode on the input for 2.0 channel processing from Auto to Surround without success (assuming that Surround would actually utilize all of my speakers ...like it's supposed to!). Have you tried all channel stereo? |
|
|
|
Post by markc on May 25, 2020 18:12:08 GMT -5
My Nightfly is SACD - Stereo and Multichannel. I hadn't listened to it in a while, but now I am as I write this! At least dts Neural:X leaves that alone! Megash0n, I confirmed your collapsed sound with the Tie Fighters in Star Wars III - it just sounds typical of the issue I have been getting all along, and again makes me think sound is getting upmixed into a void somewhere with lost audio. Can we agree then, that enough of us are getting a SIGNIFICANT issue with Neural:X so that LCSeminole could raise on our behalf my snag list ~I posted at the weekend: Bugs that I think need to be raised: (2&4 relate to problems with the function of dts Neural:X upmixing/action, 1 and 3 are additional and separate issues, but brought to light by the faulty Neural:X) 1) Front Wide channel configuration to Bi-amp the Fronts works to duplicate the Front left and right but causes both Dolby Surround Upmixer and dts Neural:X upmixers to be called in to use when not needed. (e.g. Playing 7.1 in a 7.1 system) 2) There is NO WAY on these processors to reliably up-mix 5.1 dts to use all speakers in a 7.1 configuration. The Neural:X is not always doing the expected and usual simple job of just extracting audio from the Side Surrounds to fill the rear surrounds 3) When Auto mode selects a Surround mode based on what signal is being played, the correct Upmixer way well be displayed on the front panel, but is not always actually working (So still no 5.1 to 76.1 upmixing). Mostly toggling this manually with the Setup/Main menu fixes it but sometimes it doesn't. 4) dts Neural:X is producing unexpected behaviour in 5.1 to 7.1 upmixing (and, for Megash0n, 5.1/7.1 to 7.1.4) (and also in the "7.1 to 7.1" that occurs with bi-amping enabled!) . This type of upmixing should NOT affect the three front channels (making dialogue indistinct in particular and lowering the overall volume as a result) I think I'm ready to jump in on this so need some help. What movie should I use? and Does it matter if streamed or on disc? Any 5.1 dts or PCM track in any speaker configuration with more than 5.1 speakers so that dts Neural:X can be used to ruin either format instead of upmix it! |
|
|
|
Post by doc1963 on May 25, 2020 18:25:41 GMT -5
Hey ttocs... I stripped out the body of this quote to keep the thread short, but you'll know what I'm responding to. Yes, it is uncommon to see, but 36bit color is the same as 12bit. Your Oppo is just stating the "total" bit depth it sees at its own input versus "bits per color" on its output side. It's all good there. Everything that I'm seeing in what you've posted looks fine to me outside of the TiVo when using 4K Auto. However, I don't believe that's you or the XMC-2... I believe it's TiVo. What I don't care for is how TiVo has chosen to create a "one size fits all" output format when using the "4K" Auto setting. 4K:60Hz/BT.2020 YCbCr 4:2:2/12bits requires an 18GHz HDMI link and 17.8 gbps of total cable bandwidth between the source and the sink. Everything in-between needs line up perfectly to sustain that. The "green screen" I saw in a previous post now makes perfect sense...  IMHO, for most content where a TiVo is used, this is a total waste of time and energy. In my mind, there's no wonder some here are having connection issues with their TiVos as of late. With this kind of handshake and signal requirement, any "marginal" HDMI cable will fail. This will certainly require the "right" cable combination between the source, the switch (XMC/RMC) and the sink. Lastly, in regards to the "8bit HDR" that was being reported on your XMC-2, I honestly believe that this is just a plain and simple reporting error. Again, likely caused by the XMC-2 seeing the BT.2020 container that was being sent by the TiVo without containing actual 10 bit HDR content. Maybe it's something Emotiva should look into (if it happens again) as it really shouldn't report "HDR" without first seeing an actual HDR flag. I'll dig deeper once I get my RMC-1L...  |
|
Deleted
Deleted Member
Posts: 0
|
Post by Deleted on May 25, 2020 18:43:36 GMT -5
New weird and unwanted behavior with audio mode changes and triggers. In the past when moving through (skip, FF, or Rew) shows on my cable/tivo box the RMC-1 would camp on an audio format long enough that the triggers would not engage/disengage. Now occasionally while skipping ahead (etc.) the RMC-1 appears to change audio modes too quickly from DD5.1 to PCM2.0 (PCM2.0 appears to be the default/fallback audio mode) - when it does this triggers that I have set to engage my subwoofers for "Surround" audio (and all 5.1+ audio) disengage then rapidly re-engage causing my amps to power cycle unnecessarily. I appreciate the improved mode changes but this behavior can't be good. I have even tried changing the default audio mode on the input for 2.0 channel processing from Auto to Surround without success (assuming that Surround would actually utilize all of my speakers ...like it's supposed to!). Have you tried all channel stereo? The source I'm having trouble with is used for video only. I had hoped that by changing the default audio mode for 2 channel sources to "Surround" instead of "Auto" would never allow the RMC-1 to "automatically" fall back to or use anything less than all of my speakers (7.3.4). It is possible that the RMC-1 is actually falling back to PCM 0.0 and not PCM 2.0 and that it is happening so quickly that I am unable to see it (and thus properly diagnose it). If the RMC-1 is falling back to PCM 0.0 there ain't a thing I can do about it (there's no alternate trigger configuration that will behave how I need if that is indeed the case). I liked the way V 1.9 camped on an audio mode. I understand that the RMC-1 needs to properly identify and change when an input actually changes an audio codec. Maybe Emo needs to add or increase the delay before engaging/disengaging triggers - it's far better to wait for an amp to warm up than to rapidly power cycle it. Or... turn triggers ON quickly but OFF only after x# of seconds? |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on May 25, 2020 19:29:30 GMT -5
Is one of them Nightfly? I have that in DVD-Audio 5.1 and may try it out tonight if I get a chance. I do know the regular CD version is pretty thin and the DVD-A is much better. Yes it includes Nightfly, Morph The Cat and Kamakiriad. I tested all the modes as described with Morph The Cat. Listened to all of Nightfly in Dolby 5.1 and it sounded great. I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
|
Post by ttocs on May 25, 2020 20:36:39 GMT -5
Hey ttocs ... I stripped out the body of this quote to keep the thread short, but you'll know what I'm responding to. What I don't care for is how TiVo has chosen to create a "one size fits all" output format when using the "4K" Auto setting. 4K:60Hz/BT.2020 YCbCr 4:2:2/12bits requires an 18GHz HDMI link and 17.8 gbps of total cable bandwidth between the source and the sink. Everything in-between needs line up perfectly to sustain that. The "green screen" I saw in a previous post now makes perfect sense... IMHO, for most content where a TiVo is used, this is a total waste of time and energy. In my mind, there's no wonder some here are having connection issues with their TiVos as of late. With this kind of handshake and signal requirement, any "marginal" HDMI cable will fail. This will certainly require the "right" cable combination between the source, the switch (XMC/RMC) and the sink. Lastly, in regards to the "8bit HDR" that was being reported on your XMC-2, I honestly believe that this is just a plain and simple reporting error. Again, likely caused by the XMC-2 seeing the BT.2020 container that was being sent by the TiVo without containing actual 10 bit HDR content. Maybe it's something Emotiva should look into (if it happens again) as it really shouldn't report "HDR" without first seeing an actual HDR flag. I'll dig deeper once I get my RMC-1L... Thanks Doc for the great response! This helps quite a bit. After reading what Ted wrote it starts to become clear why the EDGE has some of the issues it has. So basically it's the goofy color container. Now I can go on to other exploits. Not worth anymore time. Thanks again. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on May 25, 2020 20:54:36 GMT -5
I also just disabled my height channels to try out 7.1 with the Dark Knight 4K UHD-blurays so maybe I could replicate what you, markc and megashOn are experiencing and I'm not hearing what you all are describing. I believe you all are experiencing what you say you are, I just can't replicate it. Thank you for assisting in this. - Rather than Dark Knight as a 7.1 source, it is better and easier to use a 5.1 source in a 7.1 setting (Or more, but I can only speak for 7.1)
- This makes it easier to check that Neural:X is even engaged, as the rear surrounds should not be silent with 5.1 to 7.1 upmixing.
- You can use either a PCM or dts source. It doesn't matter as it is the implemetation and output of Neural:X that is the problem, irrespective of the source.
- I find vocal music easier to appreciate the worsened sound quality change as our ears are more tuned for musical soundstage and there is no scene-to-scene variation. I used the Adele Live At The Royal Albert Hall example initially because her usually dominant centre speaker vocal just evaporates from the centre channel across the front of the room and from nowhere in particular. (nb. all speakers including the centre are still working but sound is all muddy)
- Engage Neural:X, either by auto selection or manually. This should upmix the 5.1 to 7.1 (or more if you have the speakers)
- If you get no clouded sound or volume drop, check the rear surrounds. If they are silent then Neural:X hasn't kicked in despite what the front panel display says. Keep toggling Surround Mode until the 7.1's work. (A reliability issue in itself, sound quality aside!)
- The change in sound is not in any way subtle - when it is there, you will know!
- Again, it is not a volume change problem, although that occurs too. It is an upmixing problem affecting channels that the Neural:X is not meant to be touching
- Last night I played with a colleagues' Marantz 8805 and Neural:X sounds just like Dolby Surround when it upmixes 5.1 to 7.1. This is exactly as I would expect as on the XMC-1, dts ES and Dolby Prologic sounded the same. I understand the differences and debate between the two are to do with height channel extrapolation in 7.1.2 or .4 or .6 ceiling speakers
- Can this really be a hardware problem? Getting a replacement XMC-2 would fix this? I can't imagine broken wiring is causing this.
I've tried every DTS:X & DTS-HD MA 5.1/6.1/7.1 UHD-Bluray disc I have, while I have my immersive channels disabled resulting in a 7.2 setup for me. I do not get anything odd happening whether bitstreaming DTS or sending it PCM, except for different volume levels when using Neural:X, and raising the volume fixes the sound level. I'm completely mystified. I would suggest calling Emotiva directly and talking with Damon. I just can't replicate yours, megashOn or bluescales situation and I used all of your suggestions. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on May 25, 2020 21:17:24 GMT -5
Yes it includes Nightfly, Morph The Cat and Kamakiriad. I tested all the modes as described with Morph The Cat. Listened to all of Nightfly in Dolby 5.1 and it sounded great. I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. Interesting differing results with my Oppo UDP-203 and Panasonic DP-UB820. I just tried this DVD-Audio disc. I can't seem to get the 203 to give me an option for DTS 5.1, only multi-channel PCM and Stereo options. As for the 820, I get the DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1 options. With the DTS 5.1, Neural:X plays and sounds as I would think it should with all channels LCR, Side/Back Surrounds and Height channels having sound. The center doesn't play as loud as the fronts but that's been my experience with the few DTS 5.1 DVD-A discs I have. I'm guessing the differences in players for me is the Oppo is seeing it as an actual DVD-A disc as the Panasonic is seeing it as a DVD-Video disc. |
|
|
|
Post by geebo on May 25, 2020 21:20:58 GMT -5
I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. Interesting differing results with my Oppo UDP-203 and Panasonic DP-UB820. I just tried this DVD-Audio disc. I can't seem to get the 203 to give me an option for DTS 5.1, only multi-channel PCM and Stereo options. As for the 820, I get the DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1 options. With the DTS 5.1, Neural:X plays and sounds as I would think it should with all channels LCR, Side/Back Surrounds and Height channels having sound. The center doesn't play as loud as the fronts but that's been my experience with the few DTS 5.1 DVD-A discs I have. I have not tried the actual disc, only the 48kHz and upsampled 96kHz PCM rips. But I don't recall ever seeing an option for DTS. May have to dig out the disc this weekend. |
|
LCSeminole
Global Moderator
Res firma mitescere nescit.
Posts: 20,850
|
Post by LCSeminole on May 25, 2020 21:24:31 GMT -5
Interesting differing results with my Oppo UDP-203 and Panasonic DP-UB820. I just tried this DVD-Audio disc. I can't seem to get the 203 to give me an option for DTS 5.1, only multi-channel PCM and Stereo options. As for the 820, I get the DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1 options. With the DTS 5.1, Neural:X plays and sounds as I would think it should with all channels LCR, Side/Back Surrounds and Height channels having sound. The center doesn't play as loud as the fronts but that's been my experience with the few DTS 5.1 DVD-A discs I have. I have not tried the actual disc, only the 48kHz and upsampled 96kHz PCM rips. But I don't recall ever seeing an option for DTS. The insert in the DVD-Audio Jewel case has it listed on back. However I only get the DTS 5.1 audio track option with my Panasonic 820 and not the Oppo 203. I'm guessing the differences in players for me is the Oppo is seeing it as an actual DVD-A disc as the Panasonic is seeing it as a DVD-Video disc. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,154
|
Post by ttocs on May 25, 2020 23:07:24 GMT -5
Any 5.1 dts or PCM track in any speaker configuration with more than 5.1 speakers so that dts Neural:X can be used to ruin either format instead of upmix it! My speaker is setup for 7.2. (My tops aren't active yet) I've tried a few dtsHD MA 5.1 movies and Neural:X upmixed them all to 7.2 whether set to bitstream or PCM. Neural:X is quieter than Surround by about 6dB when I was able to measure short sequences, and this can vary a little by scene. =========================================================== dtsHD MA 5.1 discs, Sony X700: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix OPPO 105: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix =========================================================== Streaming Thor PCM-5.1 from Prime Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix, however Dolby Surround became available and does upmix to 7.2 ========================================================== So far I'm getting consistent results where Neural:X is quieter, but I'm not noticing any other issue. Toggling between modes consistently works. What else should I try? |
|
|
|
Post by jamco on May 26, 2020 0:53:49 GMT -5
I have the same static noise problem with my TV speakers just like Frenchyfranky and Cawgijoe have. My TV is a 2018 LG OLED C8 77” and I am using the XMC-2 HDMI 2 output to the ARC HDMI input on my TV. I get this static on all inputs including HDMI, USB Audio and analog when the XMC-2 is in “Video Remains On” mode. When the XMC-2 is fully on I do not get the static through my main speakers. Firmware 1.9 did not have this problem but 1.9.x and 1.10 does. I have spoken with Damon about it, he said they are able to reproduce it and are working on a fix. I hope the fix comes soon as I find it very annoying. I have the same exact static noise issue on the left side with my Samsung 65HU8500 UHD on all active inputs when using the XMC-2 HDMI 2 Out with “Video Remains On.” That being said, the improvements on 1.10 are greatly appreciated. |
|
|
|
Post by cwt on May 26, 2020 1:20:27 GMT -5
Keith, if you find a way to fix the DTS 96/24 decoding at the same time, please do! I have Queen's Greatest Hits I and II on DVD and commend them to anyone who may be in any way appreciative of Queen. They are absolutely awesome for the original videos (Which I usually turn off as audio only is more engaging) which have mighty fine DTS 96/24 muiltichannel 5.1 mixes all done from original multitrack masters. The XMC-1 plays them normally. The XMC-2 correctly shows 24 bit 96kHz on the front panel but playback is at a half speed low pitched drawl with the video stuttering along. I have the same Issue on BD Within Temptation / Black Symphony (2008) which contains several streams in several formats. Englisch (Dolby Digital 2.0), Englisch (Dolby Digital 5.1), Englisch (DTS 5.1 24/96), Englisch (PCM Stereo) Good Disc to switch between Dolby D and DTS.
DTS 5.1 24/96 is not working at all - the sound is slow, like you would put a finger on a vinyl platter. It's shown as DTS-MA 5.1 in the Display
That DTS had always less Vol is not new. But I agree, that the current Neural.X is not good sound at all.
Its some sort of washmachine sound sometime. no dynamics and not very precise.
A couple of points here ; why any DTS 24/96 are not playing back properly ? . No 1 - the DTS 24/96 codec is not listed as a playable one in the RMC1 manual ; only regular 24/48 dts is listed. Similarly No2 Older codecs like dts-es matrix is gone too ; dts-es discrete is left . Its a shame as certain sd discs like Pearl harbour and others had faulty pro logic flags that didnt activate the thx ex or dts es matrix expanded codec .. Thats incidental ; there are many more dvds and bd's that could benefit from the older codecs needless to say .. www.hometheaterforum.com/community/threads/dd-ex-dts-es-encoded-movies-listing.17235/The sampling rate would explain the "low pitched drawl" imho as the RMC1 tries to decode the core dts 1.5mbps and leave the extension metadata [speculation] I remember when my Onkyo txds989 got a dts 24/96 and THX ULTRA 2 update [thx surround mode] for a fee Onkyo had supplied a pl2/dts-es upgrade for free previously ; something to consider for Emo in the future |
|
|
|
Post by steelman1991 on May 26, 2020 2:05:15 GMT -5
Any 5.1 dts or PCM track in any speaker configuration with more than 5.1 speakers so that dts Neural:X can be used to ruin either format instead of upmix it! My speaker is setup for 7.2. (My tops aren't active yet) I've tried a few dtsHD MA 5.1 movies and Neural:X upmixed them all to 7.2 whether set to bitstream or PCM. Neural:X is quieter than Surround by about 6dB when I was able to measure short sequences, and this can vary a little by scene. =========================================================== dtsHD MA 5.1 discs, Sony X700: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix OPPO 105: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix =========================================================== Streaming Thor PCM-5.1 from Prime Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix, however Dolby Surround became available and does upmix to 7.2 ========================================================== So far I'm getting consistent results where Neural:X is quieter, but I'm not noticing any other issue. Toggling between modes consistently works. What else should I try? Nothing much else you can try - like myself and @ LCSeminole looks like you have a working unit. FYI - you shouldn’t expect “surround” to upmix, it only plays what it receives (5.1 in, same out, 7.1 in, same out), similar to “direct” but with PEQ and BassEQ engaged, whereas “direct” only engages BassEQ. |
|
|
|
Post by andersmi on May 26, 2020 3:02:15 GMT -5
megash0n My speaker is setup for 7.2. (My tops aren't active yet) I've tried a few dtsHD MA 5.1 movies and Neural:X upmixed them all to 7.2 whether set to bitstream or PCM. Neural:X is quieter than Surround by about 6dB when I was able to measure short sequences, and this can vary a little by scene. =========================================================== dtsHD MA 5.1 discs, Sony X700: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix OPPO 105: Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix =========================================================== Streaming Thor PCM-5.1 from Prime Neural:X upmixed to 7.2, Surround did not upmix, however Dolby Surround became available and does upmix to 7.2 ========================================================== So far I'm getting consistent results where Neural:X is quieter, but I'm not noticing any other issue. Toggling between modes consistently works. What else should I try? Nothing much else you can try - like myself and @ LCSeminole looks like you have a working unit. FYI - you shouldn’t expect “surround” to upmix, it only plays what it receives (5.1 in, same out, 7.1 in, same out), similar to “direct” but with PEQ and BassEQ engaged, whereas “direct” only engages BassEQ. How about taking a sample of the movie you have trouble with testing that you still have the problem if so send it to him, this way you know are using the exactly the same source. I did this with Damon and he was able reproduce the missing center bug. |
|
|
|
Post by markc on May 26, 2020 3:03:54 GMT -5
I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. 48kHz doesn't work on your RMC??? Maybe this is the same problem as the rest of us are getting. Our dts tracked being messed up by Neural:X are probably also 48kHz |
|
|
|
Post by markc on May 26, 2020 3:12:16 GMT -5
I tried it just now and Nightfly sounds fine with Neural:X. Now I will add that I have ripped the DVD-A to 96kHz because at 48KhZ I often don't get a center or surrounds playing which has been an issue since I got the RMC. When upsampled to 96kHz it always plays all channels properly. I did try the 48kHz version and in surround it wasn't producing sound out of the center and surrounds and when I selected Neural:X the sound took a turn for the worse but now all channels were playing. Switching back to Surround I was getting only the L, R and Sub channels. Once again I tried the 96kHz version and all channels played properly using Surround and switching to Neural:X exhibited no degradation in sound and only added sound to the height speakers. Interesting differing results with my Oppo UDP-203 and Panasonic DP-UB820. I just tried this DVD-Audio disc. I can't seem to get the 203 to give me an option for DTS 5.1, only multi-channel PCM and Stereo options. As for the 820, I get the DTS 5.1 and Dolby Digital 5.1 options. With the DTS 5.1, Neural:X plays and sounds as I would think it should with all channels LCR, Side/Back Surrounds and Height channels having sound. The center doesn't play as loud as the fronts but that's been my experience with the few DTS 5.1 DVD-A discs I have. I'm guessing the differences in players for me is the Oppo is seeing it as an actual DVD-A disc as the Panasonic is seeing it as a DVD-Video disc. In the OPPO settings you can specify preferences of whether you wand DVD-A discs played as DVD-A or DVD-V preferred. If you want to access the video section for bonus video materials (or to get the lossy Dolby 5.1, dts etc formats), then you have to change this It is next to the SACD preference selection:, Stereo or Multichannel as preferred option |
|
|
|
Post by steelman1991 on May 26, 2020 4:06:35 GMT -5
Nothing much else you can try - like myself and @ LCSeminole looks like you have a working unit. FYI - you shouldn’t expect “surround” to upmix, it only plays what it receives (5.1 in, same out, 7.1 in, same out), similar to “direct” but with PEQ and BassEQ engaged, whereas “direct” only engages BassEQ. How about taking a sample of the movie you have trouble with testing that you still have the problem if so send it to him, this way you know are using the exactly the same source. I did this with Damon and he was able reproduce the missing center bug. Was this directed to me, or did you miss quote? I fortunately am one of the ones who have no issues with upmixing of DTS tracks. But yeah agree that perhaps all this could be resolved by contacting Emo support, rather than batting it back and forth here. |
|
|
|
Post by megash0n on May 26, 2020 6:30:03 GMT -5
Thank you for assisting in this. - Rather than Dark Knight as a 7.1 source, it is better and easier to use a 5.1 source in a 7.1 setting (Or more, but I can only speak for 7.1)
- This makes it easier to check that Neural:X is even engaged, as the rear surrounds should not be silent with 5.1 to 7.1 upmixing.
- You can use either a PCM or dts source. It doesn't matter as it is the implemetation and output of Neural:X that is the problem, irrespective of the source.
- I find vocal music easier to appreciate the worsened sound quality change as our ears are more tuned for musical soundstage and there is no scene-to-scene variation. I used the Adele Live At The Royal Albert Hall example initially because her usually dominant centre speaker vocal just evaporates from the centre channel across the front of the room and from nowhere in particular. (nb. all speakers including the centre are still working but sound is all muddy)
- Engage Neural:X, either by auto selection or manually. This should upmix the 5.1 to 7.1 (or more if you have the speakers)
- If you get no clouded sound or volume drop, check the rear surrounds. If they are silent then Neural:X hasn't kicked in despite what the front panel display says. Keep toggling Surround Mode until the 7.1's work. (A reliability issue in itself, sound quality aside!)
- The change in sound is not in any way subtle - when it is there, you will know!
- Again, it is not a volume change problem, although that occurs too. It is an upmixing problem affecting channels that the Neural:X is not meant to be touching
- Last night I played with a colleagues' Marantz 8805 and Neural:X sounds just like Dolby Surround when it upmixes 5.1 to 7.1. This is exactly as I would expect as on the XMC-1, dts ES and Dolby Prologic sounded the same. I understand the differences and debate between the two are to do with height channel extrapolation in 7.1.2 or .4 or .6 ceiling speakers
- Can this really be a hardware problem? Getting a replacement XMC-2 would fix this? I can't imagine broken wiring is causing this.
I've tried every DTS:X & DTS-HD MA 5.1/6.1/7.1 UHD-Bluray disc I have, while I have my immersive channels disabled resulting in a 7.2 setup for me. I do not get anything odd happening whether bitstreaming DTS or sending it PCM, except for different volume levels when using Neural:X, and raising the volume fixes the sound level. I'm completely mystified. I would suggest calling Emotiva directly and talking with Damon. I just can't replicate yours, megashOn or bluescales situation and I used all of your suggestions. thank you for trying! |
|
