ttocs
Global Moderator 
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,146
|
Post by ttocs on Jul 17, 2020 11:00:34 GMT -5
It seems clear to me that if you want a good calibrated mic the Cross-Spectrum Labs individually calibrated UMIK-1 is the weapon of choice. With that said, does it really matter?
Full disclosure: When asked which mic I would recommend, my response is - without hesitation - to buy the CSL calibrated UMIK-1. I don't own one. (edit: October 21, 2023: I now own two UMIK-1 mics, one from CSL and the other just a standard issue miniDSP UMIK-1, both are individually calibrated, as all UMIK-1 mics are since at least 2020 and maybe a little before. I also have a UMIK-2 mic, but don't recommend it for Dirac usage due to the sensitivity setting of it.)
CSL individually calibrates each mic to a wider freq spectrum. miniDSP calibrates from 20Hz to 20kHz. CSL calibrates from 5Hz to 25kHz. Is greater accuracy below 20Hz noticeable? How about above 20kHz?
What is the real difference from mic to mic? What’s the variance? Well, I downloaded and looked at many cal files from miniDSP for the UMIK-1. The largest variance from any frequency in a cal file with the lowest number to another file with the highest number I could find for that frequency was a 1dB difference, and this was at the highest frequency with the middle freqs being closer together - usually less than 0.5dB.
My room is not an anechoic chamber. Is my room, in my house, going to be able to stay within 1dB @ whatever frequency when listening to my system? What I mean by this is, when the system is calibrated it’s without me sitting in the MLP. As soon as I sit down the calibration doesn’t work the same. I contend that adding one person knocks the calibration out by more than a difference between mics using a global calibration like the EMM-1. Further, whether it does or doesn’t - would anyone be able to notice?
What does my system sound like when I’m not sitting in my seat? I don’t know, as Mr Hand famously quoted Jeff Spicoli. But I bet it sounds at least as different as a difference between any two EMM-1 mics using the same calibration file.
More full disclosure: While I don’t own a CSL UMIK-1, it’s not from a lack of trying, but when I tried to order one in March they were shut down and this continued for months. I may indeed buy a CSL calibrated UMIK-1 even if it’s just for curiosity and testing. Like the Beatles’ song lyrics: I can’t stop my brain.
I would enjoy being taught why I should care more about this. My brain is analytically open to other thoughts on the subject.
|
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs 
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Jul 17, 2020 11:08:04 GMT -5
I'm with ttocs on this.
I will buy a CSL UMIK-1 when and if they are available again mainly out of curiosity, as a main mic and backup for my EMM-1, and for the audio/videophile improvement or tweak as it were.
|
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 17, 2020 11:16:26 GMT -5
I'm with ttocs on this. I will buy a CSL UMIK-1 when and if they are available again mainly out of curiosity, as a main mic and backup for my EMM-1, and for the audio/videophile improvement or tweak as it were. It says they are available right now, July 14th update says this on their page. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 11:20:14 GMT -5
CSL individually calibrates each mic to a wider freq spectrum. miniDSP calibrates from 20Hz to 20kHz. CSL calibrates from 5Hz to 25kHz. Is greater accuracy below 20Hz noticeable? How about above 20kHz? Did you see anywhere CSL references a tolerance, like ±1 dB? I assume it to be the case, but didn’t see it specified. I agree that the EMM-1 does a good job. I use the standard mini-DSP UMIK-1 not only for its more accurate calibration file, but because I can swap cables to directly connect it to different devices, iPad Pro, old MacBook, new Mac-mini ... even a PC! (if I had one) For those wanting to save some money, it’s also $35 less than the CSL (which also means you’re only paying $35 for the extended precision of the CSL). I think the extended frequency response of the CSL would especially be useful for those who have subwoofers that extend into the sub-sonic region and want them as flat as possible. Edit: With shipping, mini-DSP is just a few $ cheaper than Amazon. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 11:21:00 GMT -5
I'm with ttocs on this. I will buy a CSL UMIK-1 when and if they are available again mainly out of curiosity, as a main mic and backup for my EMM-1, and for the audio/videophile improvement or tweak as it were. It says they are available right now, July 14th update says this on their page. tried to buy and they were sold out. |
|
|
|
Post by Hair Nick on Jul 17, 2020 11:35:52 GMT -5
I saw that Amazon has the UMIK-1 Mics available: amzn.to/30zIubjI know we had a large amount of users from the XMC-1 Dirac days using the UMIK over the EMM-1. We have one internally that we have used in the past and it is a very nice microphone. |
|
|
|
Post by creimes on Jul 17, 2020 11:42:05 GMT -5
It says they are available right now, July 14th update says this on their page. tried to buy and they were sold out. I was able to add it to the cart but never went any further than that as I'm not buying one haha. Chad |
|
|
|
Post by novisnick on Jul 17, 2020 11:42:56 GMT -5
I saw that Amazon has the UMIK-1 Mics available: amzn.to/2OD0mfyI know we had a large amount of users from the XMC-1 Dirac days using the UMIK over the EMM-1. We have one internally that we have used in the past and it is a very nice microphone. I’m one of the XMC-1 buyers that opted to purchase the UMIK MIC long ago. I don’t know if it’s better or not but I did get one that was individually calibrated. Came in a nice Foam molded travel case with a USB stick for the files and even had a printout of the curves. Also came with a stubby stand. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,146
|
Post by ttocs on Jul 17, 2020 11:53:33 GMT -5
CSL individually calibrates each mic to a wider freq spectrum. miniDSP calibrates from 20Hz to 20kHz. CSL calibrates from 5Hz to 25kHz. Is greater accuracy below 20Hz noticeable? How about above 20kHz? Did you see anywhere CSL references a tolerance, like ±1 dB? I assume it to be the case, but didn’t see it specified. I agree that the EMM-1 does a good job. I use the standard mini-DSP UMIK-1 not only for its more accurate calibration file, but because I can swap cables to directly connect it to different devices, iPad Pro, old MacBook, new Mac-mini ... even a PC! (if I had one) For those wanting to save some money, it’s also $35 less than the CSL (which also means you’re only paying $35 for the extended precision of the CSL). I think the extended frequency response of the CSL would especially be useful for those who have subwoofers that extend into the sub-sonic region and want them as flat as possible. A few months ago I scoured the CSL (not CSNY  (kids won't get this one)) web site and found a tolerance stated within the text of something I read. I wouldn't be able to state on the witness stand with any sense of confidence as to what that tolerance was stated to be. I believe it was in regards to "how" they calibrate their test equipment. While I will agree that having a mic specifically calibrated below 20Hz would be a benefit for those who want their subs as flat as possible in that region, I would still contend that a 1 or 2dB tolerance in that region is not going to be noticed except on paper. Further, I don't believe that the calibration of the mic would stray by as much as a 2dB difference from what it is calibrated for at 20Hz. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 12:06:02 GMT -5
A few months ago I scoured the CSL (not CSNY (kids won't get this one)) “Y” once played guitar for me while I setup his new stereo. |
|
|
|
Post by millst on Jul 17, 2020 12:29:01 GMT -5
I've seen some tests that show microphones (even batch calibrated ones) vary more than one might think. Microphones are usually all pretty flat across everything but the extremes. However, for calibration I'd say that the lower extreme is the most important. Many people don't even correct above 200-500Hz. Here are some results from a company's calibrations: www.hifi-selbstbau.de/grundlagen-mainmenu-35/softwaremesstechnik-mainmenu-66/480-1000-mikrofonkalibrierungen-eine-uebersicht
Don't forget that there was a bad batch of Audyssey mics years back.I'd agree a dB or two probably won't make a difference. Hard to know what you have unless you measure/calibrate it.
|
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,146
|
Post by ttocs on Jul 17, 2020 12:34:54 GMT -5
A few months ago I scoured the CSL (not CSNY (kids won't get this one)) “Y” once played guitar for me while I setup his new stereo. Wow! Cool! Which guitar? I'm certain he still has it. A bunch of us attended his 1 man show at the Chicago Theater a few years ago. All acoustic. All FABULOUS! It's on my top 5 list of greatest concerts I've attended. |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 13:03:14 GMT -5
“Y” once played guitar for me while I setup his new stereo. Wow! Cool! Which guitar? I'm certain he still has it. A bunch of us attended his 1 man show at the Chicago Theater a few years ago. All acoustic. All FABULOUS! It's on my top 5 list of greatest concerts I've attended. The solo show sounds great! Good to have exceptional concert memories. I'm partial to his acoustic side, but he does well in bands too. As for the guitar, all I can say is that it was a Martin (I'm sure that will narrow it down), I got to play it too! it was in late '73, just out of college. Besides that time, I've seen him twice with Buffalo Springfield (once at a local High School in 1967, he remembered the show when I told him), and again at a Bridge School Benefit in 2010 or so, he also played with almost everyone on the bill and wandered around the stage playing solo for the kids to open the show, nice Sugar Mountain. Then a couple times with CSNY, '75 and 90something. |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,146
|
Post by ttocs on Jul 17, 2020 13:23:50 GMT -5
Wow! Cool! Which guitar? I'm certain he still has it. A bunch of us attended his 1 man show at the Chicago Theater a few years ago. All acoustic. All FABULOUS! It's on my top 5 list of greatest concerts I've attended. The solo show sounds great! Good to have exceptional concert memories. I'm partial to his acoustic side, but he does well in bands too. As for the guitar, all I can say is that it was a Martin (I'm sure that will narrow it down), I got to play it too! it was in late '73, just out of college. Besides that time, I've seen him twice with Buffalo Springfield (once at a local High School in 1967, he remembered the show when I told him), and again at a Bridge School Benefit in 2010 or so, he also played with almost everyone on the bill and wandered around the stage playing solo for the kids to open the show, nice Sugar Mountain. Then a couple times with CSNY, '75 and 90something. Just want to make sure we're talking about the same guy. It's this guy, right?  ( Fun me like to have!) |
|
cawgijoe
Emo VIPs
"When you come to a fork in the road, take it." - Yogi Berra
Posts: 5,032
|
Post by cawgijoe on Jul 17, 2020 14:50:27 GMT -5
I'm with ttocs on this. I will buy a CSL UMIK-1 when and if they are available again mainly out of curiosity, as a main mic and backup for my EMM-1, and for the audio/videophile improvement or tweak as it were. It says they are available right now, July 14th update says this on their page. When you go to order one, it says Out of Stock |
|
|
|
Post by Hair Nick on Jul 17, 2020 15:21:48 GMT -5
It says they are available right now, July 14th update says this on their page. When you go to order one, it says Out of Stock Here ya go UMIK-1 Mics available: amzn.to/39hAFLl |
|
ttocs
Global Moderator
I always have a wonderful time, wherever I am, whomever I'm with. (Elwood P Dowd)
Posts: 8,146
|
Post by ttocs on Jul 17, 2020 15:37:46 GMT -5
When you go to order one, it says Out of Stock Here ya go UMIK-1 Mics available: amzn.to/2OD0mfy Nick, every time you post that link you're making me itchy to hit the But Now button on my Amazon account! Especially when it says I can get it by Monday. |
|
|
|
Post by Hair Nick on Jul 17, 2020 15:48:26 GMT -5
Kits will start shipping very very soon so that why I mention the UMIK mic now and even picking up a microphone stand to make the process much easier running all of the points. We use this Mic stand: amzn.to/2OLqCEC |
|
|
|
Post by AudioHTIT on Jul 17, 2020 15:55:46 GMT -5
Kits will start shipping very very soon so that why I mention the UMIK mic now and even picking up a microphone stand to make the process much easier running all of the points. We use this Mic stand: tinyurl.com/yb5rt6cmThat’s a nice stand with two mic positions! If I didn’t have a half dozen stands already I might pick that one up. Also if anyone buys a UMIC-1 you get a mic clip with it as well, so you can use it and the Emotiva clip to setup either two boom stands, or one boom and the little tripod at the same time to make moving between positions faster. |
|
|
|
Post by Hair Nick on Jul 17, 2020 16:06:03 GMT -5
Using brooms and mops is a good idea! They tend to be a bit fussy though.  |
|
(kids won't get this one)) web site and found a tolerance stated within the text of something I read. I wouldn't be able to state on the witness stand with any sense of confidence as to what that tolerance was stated to be. I believe it was in regards to "how" they calibrate their test equipment.
