DAC Poll

[malibujeff]

Whats the latest?

Will this support 24/192 or is it going to be limited to 24/96?

Jeff

[Topend]

Jun 9, 2010 21:40:00 GMT -5 malibujeff said:

Whats the latest?

Will this support 24/192 or is it going to be limited to 24/96?

Jeff

From the Emonatics web site.

Analog Devices AD1955 DAC, with 384k oversampling, and 1V rms (7V peak for extended dynamics), 24-bit, 192 kHz Sample Rate PCM Audio Data, 120 dB SNR/DNR (not muted) at 48KHz Sample Rate (A-Weighted Stereo), -110 dB THD+N (0.0003162%)
Burr Brown buffers coming out of the DAC
6 fully discrete output stages
Selectable inputs
Segmented power supply

Cheers,
Dave.

[Erwin.BE]

We do want one, don't we?

[CrazyBlue]

Jun 6, 2010 10:08:02 GMT -5 dsnyder0cnn said:

Hi,

Jun 5, 2010 15:31:43 GMT -5 CrazyBlue said:

So what's the verdict on the digital volume control on this baby? Does it drop bits to attenuate like most do or is it special?

Will I lose SQ at low volumes without the USP-1 volume control, thus losing some of what I've gained by not using the preamp?

I have the same question! I assume that the volume control will be basically the same unit that's in the UMC-1. If so, that will be a bit of a bummer, although not as bad as what you described above. The XDA-1 sounds like it will have a much beefier output stage than the USP-1, so it seems a shame to put it behind the USP-1 to get true analog volume control. Sigh.

-- David

Okay, I dug this up from a few pages back:

Apr 20, 2010, 2:48am, erwinbel wrote:
...But on the other hand, analogue volume control is supposed to be superior over digital control....

FYI, for the Emotiva XDA-1, the digital volume control modifies the attenuator on the analog side of the DAC, so you should get the full dynamic range at low volumes using the built-in volume control.

So it sounds like the volume control on the XDA-1 won't degrade the signal at low volumes.

[rockguitar]

I've been following this thread for a while and noticed that multiple times, the question of whether the USB input will take 24/96 has been raised. As there has been nothing affirming that it will, I am guessing that it will be limited to 16/44.1 as in the vast majority of USB implemetations in USB Dacs.

[CrazyBlue]

Jun 10, 2010 5:00:50 GMT -5 Topend said:

Jun 9, 2010 21:40:00 GMT -5 malibujeff said:

Whats the latest?

Will this support 24/192 or is it going to be limited to 24/96?

Jeff

From the Emonatics web site.

Analog Devices AD1955 DAC, with 384k oversampling, and 1V rms (7V peak for extended dynamics), 24-bit, 192 kHz Sample Rate PCM Audio Data, 120 dB SNR/DNR (not muted) at 48KHz Sample Rate (A-Weighted Stereo), -110 dB THD+N (0.0003162%)
Burr Brown buffers coming out of the DAC
6 fully discrete output stages
Selectable inputs
Segmented power supply

Cheers,
Dave.

[rockguitar]

Yes, I've seen, that. How could I not, as its on the same page?

However, the listed specs only are directed to the capabilities of the DAC chip, not to how the USB input is going to be implemented. At least on this thread, I don't think Emotiva has ever come out and said what the USB input can do.

There is a ton of valuable information on USB from this link

www.computeraudiophile.com/content/Asynchronicity-USB-Audio-Primer

Here are a few excerpts from the article.

"Most USB capable DACs today use adaptive mode USB. This is commonly done using a PCM270x chip from TI and to a lessor extent the PCM290x or CMedia parts. The big plus for DAC Manufacturers when using this chip is that no programming is required. The chip can be "popped" into place without extensive R&D, USB audio programming skills, a lengthy time to market, and a substantial amount of money. Big drawbacks to this method are very limited sample rate support (32, 44.1 & 48k), maximum of 16 bit audio, and sound quality.



Another less common adaptive USB implementation is done using a TAS1020 chip. Manufacturers then have a choice of implementing the chip exactly like the PCM270x without additional programming or possibly using the example code provided by TI, or the manufacturer can purchase code from CEntrance, Inc. to use with the TAS1020. Popular devices using the CEntrance code are the Benchmark DAC1 variants, Bel Canto USB Link, and the PS Audio Perfect Wave DAC. Using the TAS1020 and CEntrance code greatly enhances the USB interface and allows native 24/96 playback without the need for additional device drivers or special software."

"Asynchronous USB capable DACs are few and far between. Currently Ayre, Wavelength, and dCS are the major manufacturers with asynchronous products on the market. In my opinion the reason for this lack of async DACs is simply because it's very difficult implement this technology. There is a specific skill set required to implement asynchronous USB and it's not common place in high-end audio. Implementing async USB requires a manufacturer to write its own software for the TAS1020 chip and invest thousands of hours on this part of the DAC alone. The limited number of manufacturers who've decided to take on this task instead of going with a plug n' play chip are doing it because they think the performance gains far outweigh the development pain."


In essence, the vast majority of USB implementations are those limited to 16 bits for the input. Hence, based on not only this article, but looking at the specs of a lot of USB dacs, with out any information to the contrary, my inferring that that the USB input would be most likely limited to 16 bits. I would in this case be most happy to be wrong ;D

[cipher]

A very informative post about the 24/96 resolution support for USB audio. I was recently reading the NuForce DAC review at Secrets of Home Theatre and noticed that they had added this capability to their new DAC:

www.hometheaterhifi.com/digital-analog-converters/841-nuforce-icon-hdp.html

If this capability isn't supported upon release, I'd be interested in knowing if it could be added later via a firmware update.

[jlafrenz]

rockguitar... are you starting off with a source that is 24/96? Is this the original resolution or are you using something that is making the original data that resolution?

[CrazyBlue]

Jun 13, 2010 7:16:48 GMT -5 rockguitar said:

In essence, the vast majority of USB implementations are those limited to 16 bits for the input. Hence, based on not only this article, but looking at the specs of a lot of USB dacs, with out any information to the contrary, my inferring that that the USB input would be most likely limited to 16 bits. I would in this case be most happy to be wrong ;D

Ah, I get what you're saying. I'm not a computer guy, so you'll have to bear with me. I wasn't being condescending.

I actually have the same question, I suppose. I'm going to have to choose between running 25' of USB to the XDA-1 or buying a seperate USB>SPDIF converter and running digital coax to the XDA-1.

Which way I go will depend on the merits of the USB input and chipset in the XDA-1. Still learning this stuff. I don't necessarily need 24/96 or 24/192 right now, but most likely will in the future and don't want to have to buy all new gear then.

A couple of the smaller USB converters (that I can afford) I've looked at use asynchronous technology and I suppose those would work, run directly into an analog preamp like the USP-1. But that leaves me using the DAC's in my DirecTV DVR and Oppo DVD player instead of the XDA-1.

So I have to weigh the importance of future high-res capability from my PC against SQ from all my digital sources. At least until I can afford to buy both.

Thanks for the clarification and the link. Very informative.

[rockguitar]

Jun 13, 2010 11:29:10 GMT -5 jlafrenz said:

rockguitar... are you starting off with a source that is 24/96? Is this the original resolution or are you using something that is making the original data that resolution?

I do have some sources that are natively at 24/96. I recently helped my brother in law with a recording gig and we recorded a friend giving a piano recital in his home. This was done at 24/96 for the native resolution, so I am waiting for my copy off the hard drive. So I will have at least one relatively high resolution source that I've been to the original event and helped record.

I've also been looking into downloading some hi-rez music vs buying it on a disc, like the Linn Records samplers.

[rockguitar]

Jun 13, 2010 11:34:10 GMT -5 CrazyBlue said:

Jun 13, 2010 7:16:48 GMT -5 rockguitar said:

In essence, the vast majority of USB implementations are those limited to 16 bits for the input. Hence, based on not only this article, but looking at the specs of a lot of USB dacs, with out any information to the contrary, my inferring that that the USB input would be most likely limited to 16 bits. I would in this case be most happy to be wrong ;D

Ah, I get what you're saying. I'm not a computer guy, so you'll have to bear with me. I wasn't being condescending.

I actually have the same question, I suppose. I'm going to have to choose between running 25' of USB to the XDA-1 or buying a seperate USB>SPDIF converter and running digital coax to the XDA-1.

Which way I go will depend on the merits of the USB input and chipset in the XDA-1. Still learning this stuff. I don't necessarily need 24/96 or 24/192 right now, but most likely will in the future and don't want to have to buy all new gear then.

A couple of the smaller USB converters (that I can afford) I've looked at use asynchronous technology and I suppose those would work, run directly into an analog preamp like the USP-1. But that leaves me using the DAC's in my DirecTV DVR and Oppo DVD player instead of the XDA-1.

So I have to weigh the importance of future high-res capability from my PC against SQ from all my digital sources. At least until I can afford to buy both.

Thanks for the clarification and the link. Very informative.

No problem man. My wife often says I am cryptic and expect people to understand what I'm saying without giving sufficient background information.

As for the length of the USB cable, I believe that around 5 meters is the maximum. Longer lengths require a hub. See points 3 and 4 of
www.usb.org/developers/usbfaq/#cab1

I still really hope that the XDA will handle at least 24/96 via USB. It's been high on the desired features of a lot of people since the beginning of this thread. It's just that due to cost and ease of implementation I'm fearing that it may have gone the way of the headphone jack -- i.e. not included. Also, if it were capable of hi-rez via USB, you would think that would have been mentioned by Lonnie when he came out with the test mule prototype or when the specs were announced. But we'll just have to see.

[roadrunner]

I have discussed the XDA-1 with Lonnie during a recent phone conversation and he indicated that it supports 24/192. So Emotiva has you covered for anything that is now on the market and for many years to come.

As far as USB cable distances go, the spec says that 14 feet is the limit for its design. Any application beyond that distance will need a powered hub. You might want to call Lonnie and get his feedback on how big an impact a 25 foot USB cable would have on the sound quality.

[rockguitar]

That's great news. I've never been so happy to be wrong about an assumption. At least the USB discussion should be informative to those interested.

[CrazyBlue]

Yeah, if I went that route, I'd plan on using a hub. But I think buying a converter and running digital coax will be a better solution and cost less in the end.

Still researching. My sound card does its digital via HDMI and the rest is crap. But if I replace the sound card with a cheap SPDIF output one, I'll lose the HDMI, which I use for video. At least I think. Can multiple sound cards be used? Are there plugs to support this? I've been inside the case, but just to clean. I didn't pay that much attention to the card setup.

An HD sound card with both HDMI and SPDIF will run most of the cost of the XDA-1, so that's not really an option.

[ratmice]

so where are the units?

[sanjaygolf]

If you go the VIP Lounge you can see some new info from Lonnie about the XDA. On a side note, can someone comment on how much difference there are between transports? Is the ERC-1 gonna be more or less obsolete or does it still have merits bc it's still a better transport than say a DVD player or digital player like a SB or something computer based?

[CrazyBlue]

I doubt if it will be obsolete for a long time to come. Many folks say that CD is on its way out. Many folks said that about vinyl 25 years ago.

[jmilton]

Jun 14, 2010 13:18:15 GMT -5 CrazyBlue said:

I doubt if it will be obsolete for a long time to come. Many folks say that CD is on its way out. Many folks said that about vinyl 25 years ago.

CD? What's that?

[Erwin.BE]

Jun 14, 2010 9:59:52 GMT -5 ratmice said:

so where are the units?

Aspect them by the end of July.
2010.