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Post by spiette on Oct 12, 2020 12:49:02 GMT -5
That's always possible but if they're out of phase it would be due to a defect internal to the speaker.
So far I've had them connected to three different Denon AVR's in different rooms/locations both in nearfield and regular listening. I've tried changing locations in the room and changing the polarity of both speakers relative to the AVR output but not purposely changing the phase of one speaker. I've listened with and without Audyssey EQ and tried using external amplification with my MA-500 driving them instead of the internal amps in the AVR. The result is these always go back in the box.
I wish these sounded like or close to the powered monitors but I haven't found that to be the case with the pair I have. Nuraman YMMV.
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Post by garbulky on Oct 12, 2020 12:51:48 GMT -5
That's always possible but if they're out of phase it would be due to a defect internal to the speaker. So far I've had them connected to three different Denon AVR's in different rooms/locations both in nearfield and regular listening. I've tried changing locations in the room and changing the polarity of both speakers relative to the AVR output but not purposely changing the phase of one speaker. I've listened with and without Audyssey EQ and tried using external amplification with my MA-500 driving them instead of the internal amps in the AVR. The result is these always go back in the box. I wish these sounded like or close to the powered monitors but I haven't found that to be the case with the pair I have. Nuraman YMMV. No not an internal defect. I mean you may have the wires coming from the amp hooked up out of phase by accident on the B1. I.e. one of the speakers may have been hooked up backwards. Simply flipping the wires on one of the speakers only should let you know quickly whether this is the case or not. When it is in phase the center image will be sharp and in focus. WHen it is out of phase the center image will be blurred and indistinct. As for other reasons... the airmotivs do have two active amplifiers driving them allowing them to be more efficient at doing so than passive amplification. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 12, 2020 12:56:34 GMT -5
That's always possible but if they're out of phase it would be due to a defect internal to the speaker. So far I've had them connected to three different Denon AVR's in different rooms/locations both in nearfield and regular listening. I've tried changing locations in the room and changing the polarity of both speakers relative to the AVR output but not purposely changing the phase of one speaker. I've listened with and without Audyssey EQ and tried using external amplification with my MA-500 driving them instead of the internal amps in the AVR. The result is these always go back in the box. I wish these sounded like or close to the powered monitors but I haven't found that to be the case with the pair I have. Nuraman YMMV.Thanks. Since I just ordered the B1+, once they arrive, we will see now. BTW, how much of a difference does the AVR make? I had a hard time finding AVRs in stock. I even tried calling Pioneer and Onkyo to ask why I couldn't find them anywhere online. They said they were under new ownership, and wouldn't have things in stock for a while., So finally I went with a Denon, and with through the sound calibration process. The Denon from Costco was about the only 7.1 I could find in stock. I don't want to change the polarities of the speaker wires to see if things would sound different. Then I'll get too side tracked and obsessed with that. I wouldn't mind if there was an equalizer in the Denon, and I try adjusting something that way. Or if there were different sound modes. I did find something called "Rock Arena". But I didn't want to stay on that, I wanted to keep the mode "Dolby Surround". Or from my PC to the AVR, "Multi Channel In". How much of a difference does different AVRs make? Do different AVRs at a similar price range, sound a lot different? This is my first AVR, so just asking. |
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Post by spiette on Oct 12, 2020 13:11:54 GMT -5
What do you mean by blurred? Is some sound distorted? A failure to generate a clear image. When you listen to something and you can place the players, voices, instruments in space. The most typical is seeing in your mind that the main singer is centered or in one place in the room. These make sound and don't sound distorted but have no image, one big blurred mass of sound if that makes sense. I love how sharp the image of my 5's is nearfield and how clean the images was from the Stealth 8's I heard in a large demo room. Given the reviews I expected these to hold their ground with other 5.25" bookshelfs but with the air of the AMT I heard in the other Airmotiv's and I didn't find it. It could be that I have a bad pair, who knows. The B1+ may be better but people claim the differences are minor. Maybe it's my ears, My T2's image well but also are missing that air/sparkle I associated with the AMT since I first heard them in the ESS AMT-1. My intent was to provide a counterpoint since the powered monitors were so stellar and I've found the passive versions to less so. No not an internal defect. I mean you may have the wires coming from the amp hooked up out of phase by accident on the B1. I.e. one of the speakers may have been hooked up backwards. Simply flipping the wires on one of the speakers only should let you know quickly whether this is the case or not. When it is in phase the center image will be sharp and in focus. I hoped that with the information I provided you might realize I understand how one might accidentally connect a speaker cable the wrong way. But it's harder to do so many times across several different systems unless there is an error inside the speaker. Next time I have these out I'll try running them out of phase with each other and see if that improves them. Thank you for the ideas. You'll need to hear them for yourself and decide. That's one of the great things about Emotiva, you can try them in your space with your equipment. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 12, 2020 13:50:58 GMT -5
What do you mean by blurred? Is some sound distorted? A failure to generate a clear image. When you listen to something and you can place the players, voices, instruments in space. The most typical is seeing in your mind that the main singer is centered or in one place in the room. These make sound and don't sound distorted but have no image, one big blurred mass of sound if that makes sense. I love how sharp the image of my 5's is nearfield and how clean the images was from the Stealth 8's I heard in a large demo room. Given the reviews I expected these to hold their ground with other 5.25" bookshelfs but with the air of the AMT I heard in the other Airmotiv's and I didn't find it. It could be that I have a bad pair, who knows. The B1+ may be better but people claim the differences are minor. Maybe it's my ears, My T2's image well but also are missing that air/sparkle I associated with the AMT since I first heard them in the ESS AMT-1. My intent was to provide a counterpoint since the powered monitors were so stellar and I've found the passive versions to less so. No not an internal defect. I mean you may have the wires coming from the amp hooked up out of phase by accident on the B1. I.e. one of the speakers may have been hooked up backwards. Simply flipping the wires on one of the speakers only should let you know quickly whether this is the case or not. When it is in phase the center image will be sharp and in focus. I hoped that with the information I provided you might realize I understand how one might accidentally connect a speaker cable the wrong way. But it's harder to do so many times across several different systems unless there is an error inside the speaker. Next time I have these out I'll try running them out of phase with each other and see if that improves them. Thank you for the ideas. You'll need to hear them for yourself and decide. That's one of the great things about Emotiva, you can try them in your space with your equipment. Did you end up finding passives that you liked? If so, what were they? |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 12, 2020 14:29:11 GMT -5
What do you mean by blurred? Is some sound distorted? A failure to generate a clear image. When you listen to something and you can place the players, voices, instruments in space. The most typical is seeing in your mind that the main singer is centered or in one place in the room. These make sound and don't sound distorted but have no image, one big blurred mass of sound if that makes sense. I love how sharp the image of my 5's is nearfield and how clean the images was from the Stealth 8's I heard in a large demo room. Given the reviews I expected these to hold their ground with other 5.25" bookshelfs but with the air of the AMT I heard in the other Airmotiv's and I didn't find it. It could be that I have a bad pair, who knows. The B1+ may be better but people claim the differences are minor. Maybe it's my ears, My T2's image well but also are missing that air/sparkle I associated with the AMT since I first heard them in the ESS AMT-1. My intent was to provide a counterpoint since the powered monitors were so stellar and I've found the passive versions to less so. No not an internal defect. I mean you may have the wires coming from the amp hooked up out of phase by accident on the B1. I.e. one of the speakers may have been hooked up backwards. Simply flipping the wires on one of the speakers only should let you know quickly whether this is the case or not. When it is in phase the center image will be sharp and in focus. I hoped that with the information I provided you might realize I understand how one might accidentally connect a speaker cable the wrong way. But it's harder to do so many times across several different systems unless there is an error inside the speaker. Next time I have these out I'll try running them out of phase with each other and see if that improves them. Thank you for the ideas. You'll need to hear them for yourself and decide. That's one of the great things about Emotiva, you can try them in your space with your equipment. Oh I totally understand. It's a mistake I've done myself many times. One of the easiest ways to do that is I leave the speaker wires plugged in to the speaker (and they are accidentally out of phase). Then I swap between amps and various gear making sure those ends are in the correct matching order but forget about the speaker ends because they are harder to get to. I threw it out there because it's the cheapest problem to correct. If the B1's are not to your liking, then unfortunately, it may just be that it doesn't sound very good - which is a more expensive problem!! |
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Post by spiette on Oct 12, 2020 14:56:52 GMT -5
Did you end up finding passives that you liked? If so, what were they? Still looking. The B1's weren't purchased as mains, they were part of a T2, C2 HT order with the intent to use them as height surrounds (2 pair of them) but I wanted to find out how they sounded since there were many other places I could use them. They didn't displace any of the other existing setups so back into the boxes. We have another place out in the mountains that is really limited for layout so I thought I'd try them again to replace the tiny SVS Prime Satellite's in that space which cost about the same as the B1's. Nope. What have I compared them to? The original Airmotiv 5, AudioEngine A5, old Polk Monitor 4, Polk Monitor 5 Jr+, Polk Monitor 5, and the SVS Prime Satellite. Only the SVS PS are in the same price bracket MSRP but used they are all about the same +- a few bucks. So don't sell your 6s's. I wish I had 5 of them to attach to my UMC-200. |
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Post by garbulky on Oct 12, 2020 15:41:40 GMT -5
Did you end up finding passives that you liked? If so, what were they? Still looking. The B1's weren't purchased as mains, they were part of a T2, C2 HT order with the intent to use them as height surrounds (2 pair of them) but I wanted to find out how they sounded since there were many other places I could use them. They didn't displace any of the other existing setups so back into the boxes. We have another place out in the mountains that is really limited for layout so I thought I'd try them again to replace the tiny SVS Prime Satellite's in that space which cost about the same as the B1's. Nope. What have I compared them to? The original Airmotiv 5, AudioEngine A5, old Polk Monitor 4, Polk Monitor 5 Jr+, Polk Monitor 5, and the SVS Prime Satellite. Only the SVS PS are in the same price bracket MSRP but used they are all about the same +- a few bucks. So don't sell your 6s's. I wish I had 5 of them to attach to my UMC-200. I love the airmotiv series |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 13, 2020 2:34:48 GMT -5
Did you end up finding passives that you liked? If so, what were they? Still looking. The B1's weren't purchased as mains, they were part of a T2, C2 HT order with the intent to use them as height surrounds (2 pair of them) but I wanted to find out how they sounded since there were many other places I could use them. They didn't displace any of the other existing setups so back into the boxes. We have another place out in the mountains that is really limited for layout so I thought I'd try them again to replace the tiny SVS Prime Satellite's in that space which cost about the same as the B1's. Nope. What have I compared them to? The original Airmotiv 5, AudioEngine A5, old Polk Monitor 4, Polk Monitor 5 Jr+, Polk Monitor 5, and the SVS Prime Satellite. Only the SVS PS are in the same price bracket MSRP but used they are all about the same +- a few bucks. So don't sell your 6s's. I wish I had 5 of them to attach to my UMC-200.
Thanks, I won't. They're for my desktop.
I'm currently evaluating options for a home theater setup.
I currently am auditioning the Klipsch RP-600M, and have about 2 weeks left to decide on them. I ordered the B1+ on Sunday and am waiting for them to be shipped.
We'll see what I think of the B1+ when I get them.
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 13, 2020 2:43:39 GMT -5
That's always possible but if they're out of phase it would be due to a defect internal to the speaker.
So far I've had them connected to three different Denon AVR's in different rooms/locations both in nearfield and regular listening. I've tried changing locations in the room and changing the polarity of both speakers relative to the AVR output but not purposely changing the phase of one speaker. I've listened with and without Audyssey EQ and tried using external amplification with my MA-500 driving them instead of the internal amps in the AVR. The result is these always go back in the box. I wish these sounded like or close to the powered monitors but I haven't found that to be the case with the pair I have. Nuraman YMMV.
How much of a difference, in a speaker's sound, does a receiver make? One model AVR vs. another.
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Post by creimes on Oct 13, 2020 10:48:18 GMT -5
That's always possible but if they're out of phase it would be due to a defect internal to the speaker.
So far I've had them connected to three different Denon AVR's in different rooms/locations both in nearfield and regular listening. I've tried changing locations in the room and changing the polarity of both speakers relative to the AVR output but not purposely changing the phase of one speaker. I've listened with and without Audyssey EQ and tried using external amplification with my MA-500 driving them instead of the internal amps in the AVR. The result is these always go back in the box. I wish these sounded like or close to the powered monitors but I haven't found that to be the case with the pair I have. Nuraman YMMV. How much of a difference, in a speaker's sound, does a receiver make? One model AVR vs. another.
I personally can attest to differences in the receiver/processor you are using, a few years back I thought I would try a Marantz AV7702 processor and I also owned a Sherbourn PT-7020C4 as well, my findings for 2ch use were the Marantz was nowhere near as revealing or dynamic compared to the Sherbourn, that was using my Emotiva external amplifiers and it wasn't just a slight difference it was night and day, with the Marantz unit music sounded muffled and lifeless as in less dynamics and detail, hence i sold the marantz unit and moved on. Having a system that is reavealing and dynamic for music is very important to me. I own the T1 towers and find them every bit detailed and clean sounding as my 5s monitors. Chad |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 14, 2020 1:27:55 GMT -5
How much of a difference, in a speaker's sound, does a receiver make? One model AVR vs. another.
I personally can attest to differences in the receiver/processor you are using, a few years back I thought I would try a Marantz AV7702 processor and I also owned a Sherbourn PT-7020C4 as well, my findings for 2ch use were the Marantz was nowhere near as revealing or dynamic compared to the Sherbourn, that was using my Emotiva external amplifiers and it wasn't just a slight difference it was night and day, with the Marantz unit music sounded muffled and lifeless as in less dynamics and detail, hence i sold the marantz unit and moved on. Having a system that is reavealing and dynamic for music is very important to me. I own the T1 towers and find them every bit detailed and clean sounding as my 5s monitors. Chad
Thanks. I see Sherbourn merged with Emotiva.
I looked at the Emotiva MC-700 receiver, but it doesn't appear to have built in Wi Fi; Airplay 2; or a radio tuner.
I'd be willing to consider another receiver, if I found one that was in stock, and if I found a retailer with a good return policy.
I wonder if the receiver could be why I don't think the Klipsch RP-600M picks up on quieter drums and percussion as well, or if it's just the speakers themselves.
I guess once my B1+ arrives, and I can compare it with the Klipsch, I can see if one sounds better in that area, or not.
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 14, 2020 2:13:00 GMT -5
I placed an order for a Yamaha - RX-V6A, it should be ready for pick up soon. I'm going to pack up the Denon.
The Yamaha has more power anyways, 100 watts at 20Hz-20kHz. Compared to 75 watts for the Denon.
Hopefully Costco accepts my return.
I am also waiting to compare my Klipsch RP-600M with the Emotiva B1+. Maybe it's the receiver, we will see.
Or maybe the Emotiva will just sound better.
There's nothing more I can do anyways until the Emotiva arrives, which will take at least a week, once it's shipped, and it hasn't even shipped yet.
So meanwhile while I'm waiting for it to arrive, I can return and set up the new receiver.
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Post by creimes on Oct 14, 2020 8:41:48 GMT -5
I personally can attest to differences in the receiver/processor you are using, a few years back I thought I would try a Marantz AV7702 processor and I also owned a Sherbourn PT-7020C4 as well, my findings for 2ch use were the Marantz was nowhere near as revealing or dynamic compared to the Sherbourn, that was using my Emotiva external amplifiers and it wasn't just a slight difference it was night and day, with the Marantz unit music sounded muffled and lifeless as in less dynamics and detail, hence i sold the marantz unit and moved on. Having a system that is reavealing and dynamic for music is very important to me. I own the T1 towers and find them every bit detailed and clean sounding as my 5s monitors. Chad Thanks. I see Sherbourn merged with Emotiva. I looked at the Emotiva MC-700 receiver, but it doesn't appear to have built in Wi Fi; Airplay 2; or a radio tuner. I'd be willing to consider another receiver, if I found one that was in stock, and if I found a retailer with a good return policy. I wonder if the receiver could be why I don't think the Klipsch RP-600M picks up on quieter drums and percussion as well, or if it's just the speakers themselves. I guess once my B1+ arrives, and I can compare it with the Klipsch, I can see if one sounds better in that area, or not. Emotiva is more about SQ than things like Airplay and such, products from Denon, Yamaha, Marantz and so on are directed more at people who want it all in one. I like the idea of separates where the device I purchase does what it's intended to do, I don't want Airplay/Chromecast or network switches or built in streaming services and so on in my processor, I have a Nvidia Shield to do those things. From owning the standard boxstore receivers and speakers to now owning products from companies such as Emotiva, Outlaw and Chane Audio I prefer the latter. Chad |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 14, 2020 12:24:02 GMT -5
Thanks. I do like the sound quality of my Airmotiv 6s.
For the receiver, I don't plan on Airplay being a major use for me. But, I didn't want to get something that didn't have it, for the times when I might want to use it.
Can you connect your Nvidia Shield to your receiver?
I have a Fire Stick that I can also use.
A radio tuner was also important. I do have a portable radio, but also wanted another device with a radio tuner too. In case I enjoyed the experience of listening to games on the home theater.
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Post by creimes on Oct 14, 2020 13:07:19 GMT -5
Thanks. I do like the sound quality of my Airmotiv 6s. For the receiver, I don't plan on Airplay being a major use for me. But, I didn't want to get something that didn't have it, for the times when I might want to use it. Can you connect your Nvidia Shield to your receiver? I have a Fire Stick that I can also use. A radio tuner was also important. I do have a portable radio, but also wanted another device with a radio tuner too. In case I enjoyed the experience of listening to games on the home theater. My Shield is connected to my processor by HDMI, the XMC units have a built in tuner, I do also have a 4K Firestick but the Shield is much more powerful but alas costs much more haha. |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 14, 2020 13:29:41 GMT -5
Thanks. I do like the sound quality of my Airmotiv 6s. For the receiver, I don't plan on Airplay being a major use for me. But, I didn't want to get something that didn't have it, for the times when I might want to use it. Can you connect your Nvidia Shield to your receiver? I have a Fire Stick that I can also use. A radio tuner was also important. I do have a portable radio, but also wanted another device with a radio tuner too. In case I enjoyed the experience of listening to games on the home theater. My Shield is connected to my processor by HDMI, the XMC units have a built in tuner, I do also have a 4K Firestick but the Shield is much more powerful but alas costs much more haha. Thanks. I went with the Firestick because I wanted portability. It has the SlingPlayer app, so I can take it to a family member's, connect to my Slingbox remotely, and watch my DVR on their TV. How do you decide what to connect to your XMC, and what to connect to the MC-700 Receiver? |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 14, 2020 17:11:05 GMT -5
The powered monitors were originally launched as part of our Emotiva Pro line. These were products geared towards professional studio musicians but ended up taking off more for our consumer side. We closed down the Pro division years ago to focus on the main brand and the studio monitors were a casualty of that. Around this time we were developing round after round internally of a new passive speaker line for the core product chain. We made the choice to take the design that we loved so much of the powered monitors and convert those into our final design of the new passive speakers. We absolutely love the powered monitors and we are very proud of them. Some of you might remember the "gen3" version that we showed off years ago at CES. We have been working behind the scenes over the years on making another round of powered monitors but they have to be a viable product and make sense for us. That is where we currently sit. Those gen3 designs get pulled off the shelf every 6 months or so as we look to see if we can pull them off. We are very passionate about the powered line and are working hard to find a way to make it happen. This happens with a lot of products behind the scenes.  What were the differences between the B1 and B1+? Other than the size of the ribbon tweeters, what are some other differences between the discontinued powered Airmotiv pro line, and the current passive B1+? |
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Post by nuraman00 on Oct 16, 2020 0:24:49 GMT -5
I replaced the Denon with the Yamaha RX-V6A.
No audio dropouts via HDMI with my Tivo.
So it looks like it wasn't a user error, but something with newer Denon models.
This Yamaha has an equalizer.
So what if I use this Yamaha with the Klipsch RP-600M and still feel the quieter drums and percussion aren't as audible as I want them to be, compared to my other speakers?
How should I adjust the adjust the equalizer, and should I move it left or right at these frequencies?
* 63 Hz
* 160 Hz
* 400 Hz
* 1 kHz
* 2.5 kHz
* 6.3 kHz
* 16 kHz
It's possible that instead of trying several different speakers, I can achieve what I want through this.
It will be a few days before I test this receiver for music. Today I'm just watching TV with it.
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Post by conmoto on Oct 17, 2020 11:09:09 GMT -5
The powered monitors were originally launched as part of our Emotiva Pro line. These were products geared towards professional studio musicians but ended up taking off more for our consumer side. We closed down the Pro division years ago to focus on the main brand and the studio monitors were a casualty of that. Around this time we were developing round after round internally of a new passive speaker line for the core product chain. We made the choice to take the design that we loved so much of the powered monitors and convert those into our final design of the new passive speakers. We absolutely love the powered monitors and we are very proud of them. Some of you might remember the "gen3" version that we showed off years ago at CES. We have been working behind the scenes over the years on making another round of powered monitors but they have to be a viable product and make sense for us. That is where we currently sit. Those gen3 designs get pulled off the shelf every 6 months or so as we look to see if we can pull them off. We are very passionate about the powered line and are working hard to find a way to make it happen. This happens with a lot of products behind the scenes. I'm not sure what it is about your post...your pride? Enthusiasm? Or maybe the word "we" being used often in conjunction with "passionate". Anyway, I really enjoyed reading your post. You should write more often. You create suspense. |
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